ILE/ENTp Subtypes

[Angel von Himmel]

There is a theory for thinking and intuitive subtypes ...

Supposedly I am intuitive subtype ... I am not sure what a thinking subtype is like taking I have only read about them.

[IcEPiCk]

What would you find the differences to be?

[Angel von Himmel]

What would you find the differences to be?

From what I understand thinking subtype tends to be more analytical/uptight and intuitive tends to be more all around relaxed and focuses more on the possibility of things.

[ILENTp]

Intuitive subtype Ne-ENTp (Ne-ILE)

Description by V. Meged and A. Ovcharov

Ne-ILE Appearance:
Makes an impression of a detached, floating in the clouds, and childishly naïve person. Socially adept conversationalist. Reads much and is inquisitive. Willingly discusses new information with his friends and associates, shows interest in their opinion. His seemingly soft demeanor is combined with obstinacy and imperturbability when he has to defend his views. Likes to discuss things but rarely if ever ends these discussions in conflict. Often smiles at others even if they haven't provided any occasion for this. With the same smile talks about both ridiculous and serious subject matters. Usually he is kind with everyone and doesn't readily take offense at critical remarks. In his undertakings and projects he is patient, and, despite being somewhat forgetful and scattered, if he is really interested in something he will follow it through to completion. His gestures and speech seem either slowed down or accelerated. His pose seems at ease, gaze is scattered and defocused, gait and movements lack in certainty and firmness.

Ne-ILE Character:
Interested in new, unusual or poorly understood phenomena. Curious. Usually reads a lot and has a wide circle of interests. Likes to surprise others with sensational news. Good at seeing potential prospects of various ideas and undertakings. If he is sufficiently provided for, prefers to occupy himself with that which is interesting instead of that which brings a return. Can get thoroughly engaged with one project or problem if for him it is interesting or beneficial.

Needs periodic emotional shake-ups. Feels delighted to have fun in a circle of friends. Loves those who are friendly, confident, optimistic, and can elevate the mood with provocative humor. Poorly sees how people relate to him. Afraid to show his feelings first and doubts them for a long time. Dislikes rushing things. Due to this, may manifest initiative with much delay, when the opportunity is already gone.

Does not hurry with the implementation of plans or ideas, because he believes that the main results are still ahead. Occasionally suffers from disorganization, lack of will and initiative. At times he will rush his work, attempting to make up for lost time. Resourceful and inventive in difficult situations. When at rest, shows little initiative, unless he is faced with a crisis situation, which stimulates him and increases his vitality. Then he begins to actively engage in work, he promptly carries out his assignments not sparing time or resources. Dislikes routine and any regimented, monotonous work. Cannot live by a strict schedule.

His character combines qualities of kindness, idealism, and trusting nature. Because of his innate impracticality and gullibility, he can be easily fooled. A sense of justice and faith in the best qualities are inherent to him, so he finds it difficult to come to a realization of such let-downs. Rarely gives compliments but is usually well-wishing towards other people, tries to understand their wishes and needs, to be helpful to all. Gladly gives advice on how to get out of difficult situations. Avoids disagreements and conflicts. Supports good, friendly relations. If necessary, attempts to explain the reasons for his mistakes and unethical actions.

Not vain. Defends his own interests with less vigor than the interests of those whom he cares for, although sometimes he can become principled and unyielding in matters that are of importance to him. Not always responsible and can promise that which he isn't able to deliver. Knowing this, he sometimes resorts to never giving promises to anyone not to spoil his relations.

Reluctantly deals with everyday life, yielding initiative to others over such matters. In issues that concern aesthetics often relies on tastes of his partner. Quite absent-minded and sometimes forgets what he needs to do. Getting distracted by the little things, sometimes runs out of time to meet important deadlines. Having to live by a schedule and constantly maintain order feels like a burden for him.

Ne-ILE Description by Victor Gulenko: Has a good feel for novelty. Not seldom becomes the author of many inventions and discoveries. Unsurpassed generator of ideas. Bold and forward-looking in his proposals. However, he easily drops tasks and projects he grew bored with for something new, more interesting and captivating. Capable of realizing himself in business. Characterized by dynamicity and quick speech, gesticulates a lot. Often has solid pudgy figure, looks with fortitude, if male may have a mustache. Places much importance on external appearance.


Sexual behavior of subypes: http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...types#Subtypes


Logical subtype Ti-ENTp (Ti-ILE)

Description by V. Meged and A. Ovcharov

Ti-ILE Appearance:
The logical subtype projects an impression of a serious person. Can be sharp and even inconsiderate from time to time. Self-assured, speaks rapidly and usually in a categorical tone. Can be unduly categorical in his judgments with a tendency of imposing his opinion on others. At times appears assertive and self-confident. Impatient, cannot always wait for someone else to finish before interrupting. Often takes up something new and tries to find it a practical embodiment. Actively and vigorously defends his interests. While doing so, he may flare up and offend someone, but noticing this tries to correct the situation. Rather self-centered and may take offense at minor things, however, after some time he once again becomes well-wishing and amicable. His behavior is unpredictable and full of contrasts. His gaze is at times scattered and at other times testing and tenacious. Gait and gestures are swinging, seem confident but poorly coordinated. His pose is free and unrestrained. Easily closes the distance, may hug and kiss his conversation partner.

Ti-ILE Character:
Loves to expose everything to logical analysis. May be engaged in theoretical development if it has the potential of being implemented into practice. Critically thinks over old theories and methods and is able to create qualitatively new ones. Can turn vague ideas into well designed, easy to implement, concrete projects. Can feel potential and future prospects, has a good marketing sense. Quickly loses interest in what has been done. Due to this can scatter himself and not finish everything that he has started, unless it concerns something that is important and fundamental for him. Often completely changes his types of activity and plunges into something new. Avidly engages in projects and opportunities that cannot be fully exhausted.

Has an inclination to impose his views on others. In cases when he has been proven wrong, it is difficult for him to admit it. Does not succumb to intimidation. He can issue a challenge to a superior opponent even without any actual chances of success. In arguments and discussions he is excitable and often hot tempered. When he is put under pressure he boldly and aggressively fights back. When there is panic, he calmly and confidently takes the initiative in his hands, becomes focused and decisive, acts quickly and logically. Can find a way out of any difficult situation.

Active and energetic. Savvy in strategic questions and enterprising. Readily attracts people to new undertakings if he considers them promising. He is constantly on the lookout for new approaches and solutions to the present problems. Doesn't stop on what has been accomplished. Suggests radical solutions. Ambitious. If necessary can be tough and assertive. Does not like to compromise.

As a leader prefers that everyone would be in their places occupied by their work. Encourages people around him to activity, teamwork, and cohesion. Democratic by nature, tries to be the first among equals. Not inclined to show respect for ranks and conformity. Easily switches to a more familiar language in his conversations with others. Shows his positive predisposition by a handshake and a friendly smile. Tries to be fair to all but is not afraid to say the truth directly. Wants to be respected. Can be unrestrained in arguments and disputes. Tries to distance himself from imposing people who want to use him to their advantage.

From time to time needs to spend time in a good company or engage in other activities (sports or hobbies) in order to raise his vitality and spirits. Likes to make useful contacts. Since he is not always a good judge of character, sometimes keeps questionable acquaintances. As a consequence of this, he is inclined to periodically become disillusioned with people. Has difficulties creating positive, stable relationships, but despite being scattered he usually tries to keep his promises.

Mistrustful of feelings. Afraid to show how he feels being uncertain in subsequent reaction of his partner. Painfully experiences uncertainty in relationships. If he believes the reciprocity is there, he will honestly speak of his shortcomings because he is afraid of letting down the hopes and expectations of his partner and well as being let down himself. Afraid of becoming dependent on his partner. Often puts work interests above personal attachments. Any reproaches or criticisms irritate him. Can vehemently and sharply defend his independence and point of view, but later regrets it and tries to smooth things over if he cares for the person.

Ti-ILE Description by Victor Gulenko: Self-submersed and thoughtful person. He is attracted by ideas that don't have direct connection to reality, for example philosophy, religion, bioenergetics, and so on. His favorite occupation is to compare different logical systems. A type of office researcher. Often has an asthenic figure, can be angular in movements. Doesn't pay much attention to external appearance, takes little care of his health.

[Rocky]

Sub-type theory is still very primative.. it's only an attempt to describe why people in the same type are different.

[Joy]

It differs in terms of excellent scent to the new. He frequently becomes the author of many inventions and discoveries. Unsurpassed generator of ideas. In its proposals it is very daring. However, easily throws the bored matter and is thrown to new - more captivating. It is capable to appear itself, also, in the business. For it are characteristic the dynamics, a rapid speech, a large quantity of gestures. In it frequently the dense build, courageous appearance, whiskers, if the discussion deals with the man. Great significance is attached to exterior view.

This very much sounds like me.

[discojoe]

Lol, both fit me right on. I match every aspect of both of those, even the contradictory ones.

[Gilly]

I think me and discojoe are a pretty good contrast between Intuitive and Logical subtypes. I, for one, am more attatched to what other people think of, while disco is a bit more self-centered and concerned about his own opinion of himself.

Not that he would admit it... :wink:

[discojoe]

I think me and discojoe are a pretty good contrast between Intuitive and Logical subtypes. I, for one, am more attatched to what other people think of, while disco is a bit more self-centered and concerned about his own opinion of himself.

Not that he would admit it... :wink:

Gilligan, fuck off. I'm not in the mood to read the nonsense that you write, and I don't appreciate being stalked. Leave me alone.

[Gilly]

I want to marry Joe. Honestly, I worship him. I think if he left my life, I would be incomplete and die miserable and alone in a ditch somewhere.

[Joy]

I think ENTp is one of the most paradoxical types.

[discojoe]

I want to marry Joe. Honestly, I worship him. I think if he left my life, I would be incomplete and die miserable and alone in a ditch somewhere.

Gilligan, if I ever meet you in real life I am going to beat the shit out of you.

You suck at everything.

[Gilly]

Joe, if I ever meet you in real life, I'll firstly laugh at the incredible irony, then secondly laugh at how funny looking you are.

And thirdly I'd probably throw something at you. Like a book case.

[Joy]

Hold on, I am the designated furniture thrower of this forum. You can take your book case throwing elsewhere. Now go make me some pie!

[discojoe]

Joe, if I ever meet you in real life, I'll firstly laugh at the incredible irony, then secondly laugh at how funny looking you are.

And thirdly I'd probably throw something at you. Like a book case.

ahahahahahahahahahahahaha no

[Gilly]

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha yes.

[diamond]

entp war. heh.

[Joy]

*throws a couch across the room*

[EllaC]

How does this work, and how do you know which one you are? Also, does this effect duality, i.e. if you're ILE Ti subtype, are you better suited to SEI xx subtype, or even another type? Thanks for your help!

[Socionics Is A Cult]

Checking the Socionics Holy Book would help:
http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=ILE_subtypes

If you are an ENTp (and I think you probably are), both subtype descriptions will fit you somewhat, though it should be fairly clear to you which one you are most like.

The Ne subtypes match up with the ISFp-Si subtypes, and the Ti subtypes match up with ISFp-Fe subtypes, I think most people would agree.

I have a feeling that you are a Ne subtype - though no value should be placed on my opinion whatsoever.

[Steve]

Ne ENTp's match best with Si ISFps and Ti ENTps with Fe ISFps. To me there's like a different J-sub vs P-sub language that I see as different between the two. With Ti ENTps, you'll generally notice that when they speak, they have a very precise feel, like hammering in nails securing a board. Ne ENTps seem a bit more floaty and more faraway, for what that's worth.

[JRiddy]

I do not believe there is much of a consensus as to the reasons for subtypes among practicing socionists. Several people have their theories, but the community seems to have not accepted any single one as best. To the extent that the subtype descriptions help explain intratype differences, they are probably helpful. For ILE, the subtypes are fairly simple. Logical subtype: serious and pensive; Intuitive subtype: gregarious and impulsive. I catch myself acting both of these ways from time to time, but I feel most at home being outgoing, and I am very willing to suggest ideas before I know they are good. It's almost as if getting an idea out there helps me understand it better. The logical subtypes are slightly more deliberate, and often posses a more reserved demeanor.

No matter how you slice the types down, you still cant get everybody though.

16 * 2 = 32 (number of subtypes) < 6 Billion (approximate world population)

[Creepy-bg]

we should come up with a typology that has 6.6 billion different types

[Blaze]

fwiw i think subtype theory is not all that accurate. it tries to explain variations within type that can be better explained by the influences of the environment, age, upbringing, relationships over time.

like, theoretically i should be a Ti subtype, since i lean toward beta, but i don't identify with those descriptions.

[dbmmama]

No matter how you slice the types down, you still cant get everybody though.

16 * 2 = 32 (number of subtypes) < 6 Billion (approximate world population)

exactly....and beyond....

love
kj

[strrrng]

Strrrng thinks I'm Ti because I "seem more like the laid-back Ti subtypes than the bouncy Ne subtypes" and he's seen me on my webcam, a couple pictures or me, and I've also talked to him on AIM, Stickam, and through PM's lol

it's not merely a laid-back quality. The Ti-ENTp's simply have a more integral approach to experience, whereas the Ne-ENTp's are more divergent (in the sense of fluctuation and scatteredness). Additionally, J-subtypes have a sharper quality to them, whereas P-subtypes seem to be "coloring outside the lines," so to speak. Allie fits the former, imo.

[Steve]

Yeah and those descriptions aren't very useful for actually determining the subtype.

[Steve]

So what does help?

Getting a sense of how the information elements manifest differently for each subtype. The idea that a Ti sub also emphasizes Si while the Ne sub also emphasizes Fe - I can discuss it more live if you want.

[EllaC]

ehh...it's time to call in an experimental approach. Here's Victor Talanov's subtype descriptions based on his experimental model. I cleaned it up a bit.






so... basically,

Ti sub... logic > sensing (always... sort of like an office scientist... doesn't really care about health or appearance)

Ne sub... logic = sensing (more or less, depending on the situation... can't control his/her sensing so that it can overwhelm him/her... has either rapid or extremely slow gestures/speech. Sensing has a tendency to overcome logic sometimes and the person inclines towards sensing "norms and standards" like dressing well, or having a socially acceptable image, or getting angry(?)).

...intuition is very high and this subtype flits from idea to idea.



fyi, I can still relate to both of these on some levels.

Ti subtype sounds boring personally - maybe I'm like that sometimes, although given peoples impressions of me, fliting from idea to idea seems more accurate! Though this is now under some sort of control :-)

[strrrng]

Christ, all the posted descriptions of the subtypes SUCK. I didn't even bother finishing them after seeing dumb shit like, "adept conversationalist, likes to read"...WTf?? lol honestly, do you guys buy into that bs? If you're gonna base your subtype off of arbitrary traits that are just "assigned" to that subtype, you might as well stop trying to figure it out.

I just gave a short description of the inherent differences between the ILE subs. And like Steve said, it's about how the functions manifest in combination with each other, not whether you're "flying through the clouds" or not...lmao

If you really want to know your subtype, pm me or Steve (as he knows quite a bit about ENTp subtypes). But don't bother posting innocuous descriptions lol.

[jewels]

yeah, the only big difference I've noticed within the category of ENTps is that some are extremely quiet while others come across as social and loud (in public).

Though the social type can have periods of being quiet when they are alone with you, they mostly come across as energetic and gregarious when in public situations (even just walking around a mall they'll talk to strangers).

The other ENTp sub-type seems introverted to me and somewhat hard to know, and I wonder if it's because they think so deeply, they can seem a bit "not here" (though of course they are still extroverted).

I've known 2 loud "life of the party" ENTps, full of charm and captivating an audience. And then I've known 3 ENTps who are very quiet, serious and somewhat hard to get to know -- almost never "chatty."

That's the only subtype difference I've noticed, but obviously you ENTps would know yourself best.

[Blaze]

yeah, the only big difference I've noticed within the category of ENTps is that some are extremely quiet while others come across as social and loud (in public).

Though the social type can have periods of being quiet when they are alone with you, they mostly come across as energetic and gregarious when in public situations (even just walking around a mall they'll talk to strangers).

The other ENTp sub-type seems introverted to me and somewhat hard to know, and I wonder if it's because they think so deeply, they can seem a bit "not here" (though of course they are still extroverted).

I've known 2 loud "life of the party" ENTps, full of charm and captivating an audience. And then I've known 3 ENTps who are very quiet, serious and somewhat hard to get to know -- almost never "chatty."

That's the only subtype difference I've noticed, but obviously you ENTps would know yourself best.

this is good. but i can still relate to both descriptions. the difference in my behavior is apt to be attributable to my mood more than my type.

[Wynch]

I find Ti sub-types to be more reserved and often edging towards introversion while Ne sub-types can come off as far more gregarious. That isn't to say that Ti sub-types can't be gregarious or conversational, but I find Ne's far more inclined to that active participation in conversation. It's my opinion that this has to do with increased extroverted (object) functions in Ne and increased introverted (field) functions in Ti. An Ne sub-type with emphasis on Ne and what I consider a complementary increase to Fe should, in theory, be more involved with the object-oriented and participatory world. Meanwhile a Ti sub-type with emphasis on Ti and a complementary increase to Si should, in theory, be caught up in the realm of fields, which is an internal and subjective process. This does not mean that a Ti-ENTp will be introverted, but I think it's valid to say that a Ti sub-type will often be distracted from the external present, sometimes serious-seeminging and reserved in their contemplation. Additionally, with Fe HA, it seems natural that this tendency towards extroversion in Ne would be accented in contrast with Ti pensiveness and decreased Fe. While Ti sub-types are still gregarious Fe HA, this will sometimes be overshadowed by the Ti highlight. However, when a Ti sub-type is drawn away from their thoughts, I think they can be as extroverted and greagious as an Ne.

Lastly, please can we differentiate between shyness and introverted/extroverted tendencies?

the "quiet ones" in fact are quiet only to strangers, they are very talkative with friends and ppl they know

While this may be valid in SOME cases, I think it's important to clarify between shyness with new people and reservation. Certainly, there are some shy ENTp's who tend to open up as they get more comfortable with people, but I'm of the opinion that this has more to do with personal confidence and experience than with an actual difference between types. Additionally, if one chooses to go by what I've expressed in this post, I think that the reserved Ti sub-type is capable of the gregariousness of Ne in new or old circumstances, but that they are often easily distracted by internal processes.

[Wynch]

this is good. but i can still relate to both descriptions. the difference in my behavior is apt to be attributable to my mood more than my type.

Yes, I agree. You make a good point. There's much to be said for general mood, levels of relation and common interests, maturity, etc. Not every behavior or reaction is directly attributable to type.

[Ezra]

Why the fuck this is in Anything Goes I don't know. MODS: PLEASE MOVE IT.

Nonetheless, it is something I too have been pondering, although I see two different kinds of ILE.

The first kind is like JRiddy or hkkmr. They use Ti in a more obvious way than the other kind (NO, not because they are Ti subtype; fuck subtypes for now). They like to have their systematic views etc. all worked out, and will often express these to others. What differentiates them from the LII is that they are quite clearly EP, regardless of how their Ti is expressed.

The second kind is like Allie, Sunshine Lively and maybe Suomea. They're much more playful than the first kind, and can't really be bothered coming up with systematised views. Nonetheless, what makes them ILE is the way their mind works. They enjoy the Alpha atmosphere, and their Fi PoLR is normally quite clear (probably more clear than the first kind).

[Blaze]

Why the fuck this is in Anything Goes I don't know. MODS: PLEASE MOVE IT.

Nonetheless, it is something I too have been pondering, although I see two different kinds of ILE.

The first kind is like JRiddy or hkkmr. They use Ti in a more obvious way than the other kind (NO, not because they are Ti subtype; fuck subtypes for now). They like to have their systematic views etc. all worked out, and will often express these to others. What differentiates them from the LII is that they are quite clearly EP, regardless of how their Ti is expressed.

The second kind is like Allie, Sunshine Lively and maybe Suomea. They're much more playful than the first kind, and can't really be bothered coming up with systematised views. Nonetheless, what makes them ILE is the way their mind works. They enjoy the Alpha atmosphere, and their Fi PoLR is normally quite clear (probably more clear than the first kind).

you're showing gender bias here to the max ezra.

[Creepy-bg]

you're showing gender bias here to the max ezra.

lol ya

Ezra's suptype theory: one ILE subtype has a penis, the other has a vagina...

[Blaze]

Ouch....

lol. 'ceptin you.

seriously though wtf. just because some of us don't want to add to the already theory-laden theory we're in some other group of ILE . please.

the way to add to the theory is by looking at practical examples and practical applications instead of spinning some new self serving, narrcissistic, egotistical, mental masturbation self gratification attention-seeking verbiage. ezra.

[Creepy-bg]

lol. 'ceptin you.

seriously though wtf. just because some of us don't want to add to the already theory-laden theory we're in some other group of ILE . please.

the way to add to the theory is by looking at practical examples and practical applications instead of spinning some new self serving, narrcissistic, egotistical, mental masturbation self gratification attention-seeking verbiage. ezra.

any sentence with that many adjectives has to be right!

@Suomea lol sorry, you're penile status was unknown to me... I thought Blaze knew something I didn't :blush:

[Blaze]

any sentence with that many adjectives has to be right!

lol.