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Thread: SLI-IEE duality discussion (ISTp and ENFp)

  1. #481
    Anna1921's Avatar
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    No kidding @Galen ?



    I'm not going to.

    I am, though, curious to know whether it's true that ExFx guys dislike being pursued by women, despite the fact that I have no intention of doing it myself (at least right now)... in case anyone else has input.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anna1921 View Post
    @Galen and @Destroypuppy , you say approach him... but, eh, really? I have approached guys in the past and come to the conclusion that despite what some of them say, their actions show they prefer to be the asker, rather than the askee (based on my experience and observations with other women approaching as well). Is this not the case? I would think it would apply even more w extraverts. And especially w ExFx's.
    Ask them to ask you without letting them know you asked.

    Works pretty well.

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    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anna1921 View Post
    Thanks for the responses.

    I'm still getting to understand all this, while acting as myself and then contemplating it all later with socionics in mind....

    @Galen and @Destroypuppy , you say approach him... but, eh, really? I have approached guys in the past and come to the conclusion that despite what some of them say, their actions show they prefer to be the asker, rather than the askee (based on my experience and observations with other women approaching as well). Is this not the case? I would think it would apply even more w extraverts. And especially w ExFx's.

    Anyway, I'm taking this as a practical experiment in duality as much as anything (but with hopes for more, I confess). We'll see....
    Co-worker, you say? Hm. I have no experience in workplace romance. Are you acquaintances? Friends? Anything?
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anna1921 View Post
    No kidding @Galen ?



    I'm not going to.

    I am, though, curious to know whether it's true that ExFx guys dislike being pursued by women, despite the fact that I have no intention of doing it myself (at least right now)... in case anyone else has input.
    yeah galen i mean really



    I dont know about guys but so far, if a guy is really into me and really pursues me pretty obviously before i've had a chance to develop feelings, it does make me a bit uncomfortable. So i do think it's more of an extravert thing than a gender role.
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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CILi View Post
    Ask them to ask you without letting them know you asked.

    Works pretty well.
    That's a brain teaser!
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    you can go to where your heart is Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anna1921 View Post
    No kidding @Galen ?



    I'm not going to.

    I am, though, curious to know whether it's true that ExFx guys dislike being pursued by women, despite the fact that I have no intention of doing it myself (at least right now)... in case anyone else has input.
    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    yeah galen i mean really

    Well what else am I supposed to say? If you really want to interact with him, but he isn't making any move and you don't want to take the risk, then all you can do is sit there and wait for something to come out of nothing.

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    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
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    This isn't even a socionics related issue. If you like a guy, tell him. If he's a sexist ass who thinks women shouldn't approach men, you're better off without him anyway.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    If you like a guy, tell him. If he's a sexist ass who thinks women shouldn't approach men, you're better off without him anyway.
    I'd actually be happy if something like that happened to me. Partly because I'm a shy person, but also because I prefer clarity in intrerpersonal relations. I don't like those games some people like to play ("Maybe I like you, maybe not, you have to try a bit harder..." ect.). Those gender roles are silly, I see no reason why I (or anyone else for that matter) should conform to them.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    escaping anndelise's Avatar
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    fwiw, I had never had problems initiating conversations with guys. If they wanted to see me again, I had just given them the opening. If they didn't......oh well.

    Enfps are social creatures, regardless of gender. If they aren't initiating even a small conver, then they're responding to someone else who did initiate one....(or driving themselves batshit crazy wondering "should I???...or shouldn't I??")

    The male ISTp I dated...we met when his friends were trying to hit on me at a dance club. I chatted with them a bit, he was quiet throughout the whole exchange. The conver was ending, and I turned to leave, and he set aside his beer and asked me to dance. If he hadn't asked....we would never have gotten to know each other. (he's one of the people that I am thankful for having met in my life, even though the relationship never went far (I was way too messed up psycholoigcally, still))

    One of my ENFp friends struck up a conver with a woman who turned out to be an ISTp. He was just doing his usual friendly thing....they got married about a year later.

    My high school best friend, who I believe is ISTp, had no problem accepting approaches, and only needed a bit of push to approach someone else she was interested in.

    The thing is...if you won't take the jump/risk...then you risk missing out on something good!
    And if the guy rejects you because you're a female initiating conver with a male...then that's probably not someone you'd wanna date anyways.
    But you will likely never know either way unless you do something to find out.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    This isn't even a socionics related issue. If you like a guy, tell him. If he's a sexist ass who thinks women shouldn't approach men, you're better off without him anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    I'd actually be happy if something like that happened to me. Partly because I'm a shy person, but also because I prefer clarity in intrerpersonal relations. I don't like those games some people like to play ("Maybe I like you, maybe not, you have to try a bit harder..." ect.). Those gender roles are silly, I see no reason why I (or anyone else for that matter) should conform to them.
    +1
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    you can go to where your heart is Galen's Avatar
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    fwiw I have trouble initiating conversation with people I don't know, even if I am kinda interested in them. Cold-sparking feels like such a drain on energy to me, and there has to be some sort of pre-existing connection that we can go off of. Something like a mutual interest, common goal, etc. I've heard that my emphasis on common interests is a downfall of mine, but I don't really see how it could be any other way in order to spark a relationship.

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    fwiw I have trouble initiating conversation with people I don't know, even if I am kinda interested in them. Cold-sparking feels like such a drain on energy to me, and there has to be some sort of pre-existing connection that we can go off of. Something like a mutual interest, common goal, etc. I've heard that my emphasis on common interests is a downfall of mine, but I don't really see how it could be any other way in order to spark a relationship.
    I am more like you, Galen...
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I am more like you, Galen...
    Except that you're not gay... and he isn't straight, so you two can't get together.

    /serious post
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Except that you're not gay... and he isn't straight, so you two can't get together.

    /serious post
    but why would i want to be with a clone of myself anyway?

    well, not that Galen is my clone... but you get my point...
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    SOCIONICS IDENTICALS R NOT CLONES



    /because he's hot

    ...and a good person


    (and you don't shouldn't need anything else)
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Thanks for the input, everyone. Especially @anndelise

    I agree this probably isn't a socionics issue, still I was curious how IEE men feel about being approached by women. Just in case, I guess.
    Last edited by Anna1921; 05-15-2012 at 02:39 PM.

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    you can go to where your heart is Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Except that you're not gay... and he isn't straight, so you two can't get together.

    /serious post
    even if WA was gay and I was straight we couldn't be together

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    even if WA was gay and I was straight we couldn't be together
    The two parts were mutually exclusive.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    SOCIONICS IDENTICALS R NOT CLONES




    /because he's hot

    ...and a good person


    (and you don't shouldn't need anything else)
    very true but both of us would be suffering from Si-deficiency...

    I wouldn't mind having Galen as a roomie though
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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandiAce View Post
    As an Ne subtype, I do have a tendency to be a bit psychologically distant from other people. Often, I can also be unsure of how I feel about a specific person because that judgement is very situational and I may or may not relate to a person at any given time.

    So I can understand there being a frustration with the other unintentionally sending mixed signals. Maybe its because of the lack of a net positive signal (in other words, his mood and energy may fluctuate a lot, but he show great signs of interest) from this supposed IEE that annoys you?
    HandiAce, I believe that you'll find what you've said in the above, relating to how you are a bit psychologically distant from people a work of a suggestive Fi.

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Fi

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=LSE
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 07-06-2012 at 04:32 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Looks like Maritsa is stalking HandiAce. Is he cuter than me, Maritsa?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Looks like Maritsa is stalking HandiAce. Is he cuter than me, Maritsa?
    No. I'm typing him. Thank you for your nonsense. It makes me feel bad.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    WE'RE ALL GOING HOME HERO's Avatar
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    Maritsa, you're so cool.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    This isn't even a socionics related issue. If you like a guy, tell him. If he's a sexist ass who thinks women shouldn't approach men, you're better off without him anyway.
    This. Because us, Delta NF love to express OUR feelings for someone and don't like cat and mouse games, in an unambiguous way. That is in such a way where leaves very little doubt about how we feel for someone. It's a good way to test if someone is Delta or not. Walk up to them and say "I like you." If they ask, "why" they are probably LSe
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 07-06-2012 at 05:24 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  25. #505
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Well i am a girl, but one thing i can add is that when i really like a guy to the point that i am nervous around him, i do end up acting a little standoffish, just because i feel awkward, self-conscious, and shy, and i dont want to be TOO obvious. Also, if he is with a bunch of people that i dont necessarily associate with, i will feel that way even more and there is no way i'd go over and talk to him. If he is by himself, it's more likely.

    If i've gotten some signals of interest from him, and he is by himself looking like he's lonely or wants to talk to me, then i will DEFINITELY make a move. It might take a couple sightings before i convince myself to do it, though.

    Signals of interest include but are not limited to: a hot stare, gravitating to me (like trying to sit next to me whenever he can), supporting me in various situations, etc. The SLI hot stare... it hooks me forever--not easily forgotten.
    Ditto for me! Yes,things SLI do can hook me forever too - a look, a touch that says "I want you for me", it hooks me, solid and fast. Of course I am thinking of my particular SLI, and that is how it worked on me exactly.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tolvard View Post
    ...
    I find it extremely difficult to strike up conversation with female SLIs unless there is some shared activity, or we are hanging out in the same group. Once the initial barrier has been breached, interaction becomes extremely natural, and a sense of shared mission is felt. The nonverbal communication is what really differentiates my interaction with female duals from interactions with other types. After getting to know each other, talking is barely necessary, as it seems that we are almost communicating telepathically.
    And this Ditto for me, too.

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    Living 2Day's Avatar
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    Unhappy Communicating with SLIs on a romantic level: ISTp-ESFp duality

    Hello fellow deltas,

    Basically, I need some advice on communicating with SLIs on a romantic level. I am not asking this because I want to manipulate an individual, or any SLI person. It's that I truly like this girl, who happen's to be an SLI and shares identical feelings towards me, and truly want it to work out.

    I have never had close contacts with my duals, except with a female in grade school. Sadly, I rarely paid attention to her because I was a young immature flamboyant extrovert. So help is greatly appreciated!

    I have researched SLIs' hidden agenda, PoLR, cognitive functions, general patters, descriptions, explored the forums, etc.
    I believe I have a decent understanding of their minds theoretically.
    Are there any specific characteristics or big yes-yes and no-nos when interacting with an SLI?
    I understand loyalty, and intelligence are significant values they hold. Should I be concerned with these specifically?
    How should I go about deep feelings/emotions/experiences?
    What are some things that an individual could do, specifically an IEE, to brighten an SLIs day?
    Pior experiences/testimonies?
    How can I fully show my appreciation and interest in her, without overwhelming her uncomfortably?
    How will our relationship likely develop, at what speed, and what natural responsibilities/expectations will I have to uphold/acquire?
    I am a nervous regarding SLI's supposedly internal feelings/Fe PoLR. How should I go about this? What should I avoid, and what should I dwell towards?

    Again, all help is greatly appreciated! I am not trying objectify or exploit SLIs or the girl of interest, I am just a nervous wreck IEE, who is deeply attracted to someone emotionally, mentally, spiritually, physically. Thanks!

    Specific Questions:
    SLI and I have known each other for two years, we are in the same educational program, although we have never interacted extensively. I remember when I first saw her, there was something about her that automatically caught my eye, but we rarely saw each other back then. Recently, our schedules have begun to overlap, thus we saw each other daily. General behavior:
    - Seems to dress in my favor
    - Overheard gossip that indirectly refers to me from her friends
    - Quickly tenses up when I walk by and seems to be looking in her peripheral vision
    - Caught watching me, but looks away
    - Star gazes, but than looks away
    - Has difficulty responding/talking to me, although she can make quick witty remarks, but good intentions
    - Very attentive to what I am saying
    Do these sound like characteristics of an SLI towards a romantic interest?

    SLI's friends are also romantically interested in me, specifically an ESFj. Both the ESFj and ISTp were developing tension between their relation the last time I saw them. The ESFj is the alpha of the group, ISTp the beta. How will this play out, specifically if I begin dating the ISTp? Should I be concerned, should I focus even greater attention on avoiding the ESFj?

    Our friends differ in social groups, will she expect and encourage me to getting close with her friends, even though a lot of them find me attractive, or will she likely isolate her/I from the others after consistent relations are established? Will she want me to introduce her to my friends (they have completely different interests and communication styles - majority are extroverts but I am the only ENFp)?

    She has a few specific insecurities, for instance her and my height. She is 5'1", while I am 6'3". Should I attempt to reassure her, and discuss this, or should I leave it be?

    Thank you, sorry for the length! I can not emphasize my gratitude!
    Last edited by Living 2Day; 08-19-2015 at 04:07 AM.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Hi I'm very good with starting relations with SLI. I often give them little hints of my willingness to help and smile when they are around. Delta st love attention so offering your help or offering SLI food to try gives you a way in (this doesn't work with LSE). All you have to do is ask about their culture, what kind of foods they like, butt into their business and give them attention. Once that's established you will have to sometimes be the one to ask them out. This is one place where male female roles are reversed . Please pm me if you need any further assistance. I'm not sure that you can ever overwhel an sli. They are there as a sounding board to help calm you down and listen and support you. Sli fully appreciate love. Someone who tells them they love thwm and want them. They appreciate sex and physical closeness too..
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  28. #508
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lake View Post
    Hello fellow deltas,

    Basically, I need some advice on communicating with SLIs on a romantic level. I am not asking this because I want to manipulate an individual, or any SLI person. It's that I truly like this girl, who happen's to be an SLI and shares identical feelings towards me, and truly want it to work out.

    I have never had close contacts with my duals, except with a female in grade school. Sadly, I rarely paid attention to her because I was a young immature flamboyant extrovert. So help is greatly appreciated!

    I have researched SLIs' hidden agenda, PoLR, cognitive functions, general patters, descriptions, explored the forums, etc.
    I believe I have a decent understanding of their minds theoretically.
    Are there any specific characteristics or big yes-yes and no-nos when interacting with an SLI?
    I understand loyalty, and intelligence are significant values they hold. Should I be concerned with these specifically?
    How should I go about deep feelings/emotions/experiences?
    What are some things that an individual could do, specifically an IEE, to brighten an SLIs day?
    Pior experiences/testimonies?
    How can I fully show my appreciation and interest in her, without overwhelming her uncomfortably?
    How will our relationship likely develop, at what speed, and what natural responsibilities/expectations will I have to uphold/acquire?
    I am a nervous regarding SLI's supposedly internal feelings/Fe PoLR. How should I go about this? What should I avoid, and what should I dwell towards?

    Again, all help is greatly appreciated! I am not trying objectify or exploit SLIs or the girl of interest, I am just a nervous wreck IEE, who is deeply attracted to someone emotionally, mentally, spiritually, physically. Thanks!

    Specific Questions:
    SLI and I have known each other for two years, we are in the same educational program, although we have never interacted extensively. I remember when I first saw her, there was something about her that automatically caught my eye, but we rarely saw each other back then. Recently, our schedules have begun to overlap, thus we saw each other daily. General behavior:
    - Seems to dress in my favor
    - Overheard gossip that indirectly refers to me from her friends
    - Quickly tenses up when I walk by and seems to be looking in her peripheral vision
    - Caught watching me, but looks away
    - Star gazes, but than looks away
    - Has difficulty responding/talking to me, although she can make quick witty remarks, but good intentions
    - Very attentive to what I am saying
    Do these sound like characteristics of an SLI towards a romantic interest?

    SLI's friends are also romantically interested in me, specifically an ESFj. Both the ESFj and ISTp were developing tension between their relation the last time I saw them. The ESFj is the alpha of the group, ISTp the beta. How will this play out, specifically if I begin dating the ISTp? Should I be concerned, should I focus even greater attention on avoiding the ESFj?

    Our friends differ in social groups, will she expect and encourage me to getting close with her friends, even though a lot of them find me attractive, or will she likely isolate her/I from the others after consistent relations are established? Will she want me to introduce her to my friends (they have completely different interests and communication styles - majority are extroverts but I am the only ENFp)?

    She has a few specific insecurities, for instance her and my height. She is 5'1", while I am 6'3". Should I attempt to reassure her, and discuss this, or should I leave it be?

    Thank you, sorry for the length! I can not emphasize my gratitude!
    So much to respond to - so many different angles; you are all over the place. Yes, you could well be your self-typed IEE! Assuming she is SLI, my advice might be helpful; I am a girl IEE married to a guy SLI. I completely fell for him before he "fell" for me (though, I don't think you can describe SLI's as really "falling" - but they do get to the point where they know you are theirs; where they are "all-in". Anyway, I was once in your shoes, thinking in every way about what he was thinking, guessing (often quite accurately), and one of the things in my quest for knowledge of dear SLI who was not being a complete open-book like me was to read lots on his MBTI type - ISTP - and then I found Socionics and realized why I was so crazy for him. I found female SLI's opinions on how to act with my SLI extra helpful, too. Woman just know these things. Jessica is a SLI here - maybe she will be helpful.

    One of the main things I learned is you have to be patient in waiting for your SLI to truly return your feelings and commitment. Don't press her for commitment and really be careful about expressing your undying love too strong too soon - without enough hints from her - because that really is pressure. Hints are okay; and realize she hears and remembers everything you say, and thinks about it. Its pretty amazing. Take your time. (I gave my SLI very soft hints of this but mostly just stayed engaged with him). And I was very very sure in my intution he returned my feelings, but I just had to accept my own thought there and wait for him to confirm it, the confirmation I so wanted. SLIs take longer than us IEEs. We just KNOW, and are ready to act when we know.. I forgot to say it was extra hard for us because we were separated in location. But I did date two different SLIs in college and it was lovely and mild and deep - but circumstances prevented these relations from getting off the ground, and did nto realize the gold I had or I woudl have made sure they hung on, ratehr than letting them go. I instead married a man who was not good for me.

    So just be cautious and be sure she is ready to say she returns the feeling. Your IEE intuition will know. You see she is noticing you. That seems very SLI. SLIs like best to be friends first, to get to know you, to know you are a safe friend. So reach out as a friend, and do friend-things together with her.

    Don't worry about her Fe PoLR. Her ESE/ESFj friend will annoy her way before you will. Or really you probably won't ever annoy her in that way. LOL, ESFj is in the Alpha Quadra, and SLI is in Delta - but I know what you mean. Of course ESE stands out socially - they are tireless social butterflies. Don't worry about the ESFj - they are socially adaptable. Realize ESE is your benefactor an in the end won't really appreciate your gifts. Have confidence you really are the best thing in the entire world for the SLI.

    I was just Googling to find a Socionics article for you, "When Duals Meet". But I did not find the article, but I found an old conversation I vaguely remember having some time back PerCafe, somehow in the middle of this thread on a website I never posted on. I don't know why its there. I cannot take the time to read it now but I know that back when I wrote it I was in your same situation - trying to understand SLI so I could know how to approach this relationship that was not real a relationship yet. So here that is. Maybe it will help. Since i am in a very different place now plus right at this time I cannot focus on this much because big things are happening here IRL. (I never did find that article but its quoted on this page, so maybe it will be helpful). Oh here it is (applies to any Dual pair, not just the one on the title page: https://dualization.wordpress.com/20...-by-g-shulman/

    Well I cannot take more time with this. Lots going on here, a family issue we are assisting with, a legal issue, and a house-building project with a snare that needs my attention. But I hope you will be very encouraged to keep trying. SLI and I are now very happily married, and I know we will always be happy. It is a 2nd marraige for us both; we are older. But you are young with a family to start yet, and you have this Dual woman you love and seems to return interest. What a wonderful possibility, that she may be your lifelong partner, that you start a family with! Please, go for it! She needs you to be the extrovert and show her your sincere interest! Accept her much-milder early returns of affection as the very precious offerings they are. Her affection will grow, and her love will be true and steadfast. its a wonderful thing. There may be what seems to you a prolonged period of silent stillness while she decides to give her heart. Be patient, impulsive ENFp. Stay calm. It won't be that long*. SLI's hidden agenda is "To Love". And SLI, while not being any gushy romantic, gives true and loyal and deep love. Worth so much more than the silly fluffy stuff.

    *At one point, before my SLI declared his love, we were sort of making life plans together, and I said (wrote) that I really cannot talk about this, I need to know you feel as I do, and when he wrote back vaguely affirmative that he did, I said, please don't - I really need to hear your voice say it and see it in your eyes, face-to-face. And we dropped this line of talking all together, and chatted about all other things like good friends. When I saw him a couple months later, he made sure, when we took a walk, to stop me, and face me, and declare his love and intention to be with me always. He did this very simply. Not poetic, no fireworks, but firmly and surely and it was just what I needed. (though he has written some brief poetic things that showed his love). Also it was unexpected; I had no hint he was going to say any such thing. So I share that to say that at some appropriate point in your wooing, when you feel sure she returns the feeling, you may need to tell her what you need to hear. And give her time to think, maybe she'll need to cogitate before she speaks. She might need to get back to you on that. And it will be eloquent and simple and direct, not wordy. But you will know just how she feels.

    P.S. Don't worry about the height. If she loves you she will just love everything about you. My good friend ISFp college roommate was very in love with her ENTp Dual. (She knew nothing of Socionics). They had HUGE unusual obstacles but they did marry and they have had a wonderful life together. As - no, more in love with many big hurdles, experiences and 3 kids later. And this friend is 5'1" and her hubby 6'3". And her hands happen to be extra-tiny, and his, extra-big. Very sweet.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  29. #509
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    Most people type badly. Your "dual" may appear to be any IR for you, your "SLI" may have any type. Experienced ones type so badly that they match in typing up to 30% only. Novices like you type worse.
    If you like each other, the best what you can do - just ask your pair about what you are interested. Theory of Socionics means nothing without correct types.

  30. #510
    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
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    You could try having a conversation, and take it from there.

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    After reading what Eliza wrote, ENFp has to be my dual. I can't extinguish the glow her words put in my heart. More Fi please!

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    Quote Originally Posted by uncivilized View Post
    After reading what Eliza wrote, ENFp has to be my dual. I can't extinguish the glow her words put in my heart. More Fi please!
    She is wonderful
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  33. #513

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    i thought tiny women-huge guys was all the rage

  34. #514
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    Hi! I figured I can give an SLI perspective. It was actually quite nice reading your post. It reminded me how Ne works, the way you analyze every interaction from a million different ways, seeking some Si to clear your mind. Fundamentally, I'd avoid worrying too much. Every IEE who has approached me, regardless of nerves, mood, etc. has made a positive impression. No matter how nervous you are to speak to her, no matter how much you worry, this is is part of your Ne and Fi, even if it is the less positive parts of it. And thus, if she is SLI, she will find it entertaining and appealing. So with regard to how to act around her, don't hide anything. If you are scared, or worried, be scared or worried; it is part of who you are and your SLI will accept that. Whatever you do or say, it will brighten an SLI's day. As far as Fe Polr, your relationship will move appallingly slow. We are timid of taking any remotely physical action at all, that is up to you. She will not show she likes you in the conventional sense, I personally hide my feelings for people. You'll just have to gamble that she's into you. As far as conversation, very little off-puts me except complaining, yelling, moodiness, crying, etc. Don't feel the need to have a formal Q/A conversation. Tell her whatever is on your mind, she will accept it and likely make you feel a good bit better. As far as showing interest, If people keep talking to me, go out of there way to be with me, I'll assume they're interested. Become friends first and slowly start to do relationship stuff to make her feel comfortable. We get scared if things move to fast. I'd give you more specific advice, but I'm a gay male so I'm rather derp with traditional relationships.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kalinoches View Post
    i thought tiny women-huge guys was all the rage
    Lol
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  36. #516
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earlgrey View Post
    Hi! I figured I can give an SLI perspective. It was actually quite nice reading your post. It reminded me how Ne works, the way you analyze every interaction from a million different ways, seeking some Si to clear your mind. Fundamentally, I'd avoid worrying too much. Every IEE who has approached me, regardless of nerves, mood, etc. has made a positive impression. No matter how nervous you are to speak to her, no matter how much you worry, this is is part of your Ne and Fi, even if it is the less positive parts of it. And thus, if she is SLI, she will find it entertaining and appealing. So with regard to how to act around her, don't hide anything. If you are scared, or worried, be scared or worried; it is part of who you are and your SLI will accept that. Whatever you do or say, it will brighten an SLI's day. As far as Fe Polr, your relationship will move appallingly slow. We are timid of taking any remotely physical action at all, that is up to you. She will not show she likes you in the conventional sense, I personally hide my feelings for people. You'll just have to gamble that she's into you. As far as conversation, very little off-puts me except complaining, yelling, moodiness, crying, etc. Don't feel the need to have a formal Q/A conversation. Tell her whatever is on your mind, she will accept it and likely make you feel a good bit better. As far as showing interest, If people keep talking to me, go out of there way to be with me, I'll assume they're interested. Become friends first and slowly start to do relationship stuff to make her feel comfortable. We get scared if things move to fast. I'd give you more specific advice, but I'm a gay male so I'm rather derp with traditional relationships.
    Wow, this is great SLI-advice for Lake! So take heart, Lake. And you are definitely SLI, Earl; I can almost hear my husband's voice in what you write.

    I also want to say as a female IEE that my having to take first "physical actions" was at times a difficulty for me, but I could see it needed to be done, and that I had to do it! That includes things like planning the when and how we were going to be physically in the same location for visits (we lived apart) and planning how we were going to make things work (put our lives together; and we had big obstacles). I had no problem generating ideas for this, and he was very receptive and encouraging when I did initiate it. But I had traditional beliefs the guy should lead in all this, which had always worked fine for me before (almost always), so it, at times, put me out of my comfort zone. But being around my dear SLI was a comfort-zone, so I got over it and pushed on forward with the task at hand.

    But for you, Lake, a male IEE, it will be easier to take initiating roles. Just add patience to that. And what Earl said about a SLI not minding your approach being not-at-your-best because you are "nerves and mood" - he is truly right about that. Any kind of approach to my SLI, even not my best, he always welcomed. I would be faltering in my attempt to explain a thing, and he would give me the fullest, truest attention, and that would encourage and calm me.
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 08-21-2015 at 07:51 PM.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  37. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    So much to respond to - so many different angles; you are all over the place. Yes, you could well be your self-typed IEE! Assuming she is SLI, my advice might be helpful; I am a girl IEE married to a guy SLI. I completely fell for him before he "fell" for me (though, I don't think you can describe SLI's as really "falling" - but they do get to the point where they know you are theirs; where they are "all-in". Anyway, I was once in your shoes, thinking in every way about what he was thinking, guessing (often quite accurately), and one of the things in my quest for knowledge of dear SLI who was not being a complete open-book like me was to read lots on his MBTI type - ISTP - and then I found Socionics and realized why I was so crazy for him. I found female SLI's opinions on how to act with my SLI extra helpful, too. Woman just know these things. Jessica is a SLI here - maybe she will be helpful.

    One of the main things I learned is you have to be patient in waiting for your SLI to truly return your feelings and commitment. Don't press her for commitment and really be careful about expressing your undying love too strong too soon - without enough hints from her - because that really is pressure. Hints are okay; and realize she hears and remembers everything you say, and thinks about it. Its pretty amazing. Take your time. (I gave my SLI very soft hints of this but mostly just stayed engaged with him). And I was very very sure in my intution he returned my feelings, but I just had to accept my own thought there and wait for him to confirm it, the confirmation I so wanted. SLIs take longer than us IEEs. We just KNOW, and are ready to act when we know.. I forgot to say it was extra hard for us because we were separated in location. But I did date two different SLIs in college and it was lovely and mild and deep - but circumstances prevented these relations from getting off the ground, and did nto realize the gold I had or I woudl have made sure they hung on, ratehr than letting them go. I instead married a man who was not good for me.

    So just be cautious and be sure she is ready to say she returns the feeling. Your IEE intuition will know. You see she is noticing you. That seems very SLI. SLIs like best to be friends first, to get to know you, to know you are a safe friend. So reach out as a friend, and do friend-things together with her.

    Don't worry about her Fe PoLR. Her ESE/ESFj friend will annoy her way before you will. Or really you probably won't ever annoy her in that way. LOL, ESFj is in the Alpha Quadra, and SLI is in Delta - but I know what you mean. Of course ESE stands out socially - they are tireless social butterflies. Don't worry about the ESFj - they are socially adaptable. Realize ESE is your benefactor an in the end won't really appreciate your gifts. Have confidence you really are the best thing in the entire world for the SLI.

    I was just Googling to find a Socionics article for you, "When Duals Meet". But I did not find the article, but I found an old conversation I vaguely remember having some time back PerCafe, somehow in the middle of this thread on a website I never posted on. I don't know why its there. I cannot take the time to read it now but I know that back when I wrote it I was in your same situation - trying to understand SLI so I could know how to approach this relationship that was not real a relationship yet. So here that is. Maybe it will help. Since i am in a very different place now plus right at this time I cannot focus on this much because big things are happening here IRL. (I never did find that article but its quoted on this page, so maybe it will be helpful). Oh here it is (applies to any Dual pair, not just the one on the title page: https://dualization.wordpress.com/20...-by-g-shulman/

    Well I cannot take more time with this. Lots going on here, a family issue we are assisting with, a legal issue, and a house-building project with a snare that needs my attention. But I hope you will be very encouraged to keep trying. SLI and I are now very happily married, and I know we will always be happy. It is a 2nd marraige for us both; we are older. But you are young with a family to start yet, and you have this Dual woman you love and seems to return interest. What a wonderful possibility, that she may be your lifelong partner, that you start a family with! Please, go for it! She needs you to be the extrovert and show her your sincere interest! Accept her much-milder early returns of affection as the very precious offerings they are. Her affection will grow, and her love will be true and steadfast. its a wonderful thing. There may be what seems to you a prolonged period of silent stillness while she decides to give her heart. Be patient, impulsive ENFp. Stay calm. It won't be that long*. SLI's hidden agenda is "To Love". And SLI, while not being any gushy romantic, gives true and loyal and deep love. Worth so much more than the silly fluffy stuff.

    *At one point, before my SLI declared his love, we were sort of making life plans together, and I said (wrote) that I really cannot talk about this, I need to know you feel as I do, and when he wrote back vaguely affirmative that he did, I said, please don't - I really need to hear your voice say it and see it in your eyes, face-to-face. And we dropped this line of talking all together, and chatted about all other things like good friends. When I saw him a couple months later, he made sure, when we took a walk, to stop me, and face me, and declare his love and intention to be with me always. He did this very simply. Not poetic, no fireworks, but firmly and surely and it was just what I needed. (though he has written some brief poetic things that showed his love). Also it was unexpected; I had no hint he was going to say any such thing. So I share that to say that at some appropriate point in your wooing, when you feel sure she returns the feeling, you may need to tell her what you need to hear. And give her time to think, maybe she'll need to cogitate before she speaks. She might need to get back to you on that. And it will be eloquent and simple and direct, not wordy. But you will know just how she feels.

    P.S. Don't worry about the height. If she loves you she will just love everything about you. My good friend ISFp college roommate was very in love with her ENTp Dual. (She knew nothing of Socionics). They had HUGE unusual obstacles but they did marry and they have had a wonderful life together. As - no, more in love with many big hurdles, experiences and 3 kids later. And this friend is 5'1" and her hubby 6'3". And her hands happen to be extra-tiny, and his, extra-big. Very sweet.
    Thank you so much for this thorough and informative response! I am reading the link now, thank you! I wish you the best with all your conflicts in life, I hope they are all resolved quickly. It's wonderful to hear your stories, it gives me great encouragement for my situation, even though it is nothing compared to your current or previous in intensity. So I thank you again and will be sure to cherish all your advice!

    Quote Originally Posted by Earlgrey View Post
    Hi! I figured I can give an SLI perspective. It was actually quite nice reading your post. It reminded me how Ne works, the way you analyze every interaction from a million different ways, seeking some Si to clear your mind. Fundamentally, I'd avoid worrying too much. Every IEE who has approached me, regardless of nerves, mood, etc. has made a positive impression. No matter how nervous you are to speak to her, no matter how much you worry, this is is part of your Ne and Fi, even if it is the less positive parts of it. And thus, if she is SLI, she will find it entertaining and appealing. So with regard to how to act around her, don't hide anything. If you are scared, or worried, be scared or worried; it is part of who you are and your SLI will accept that. Whatever you do or say, it will brighten an SLI's day. As far as Fe Polr, your relationship will move appallingly slow. We are timid of taking any remotely physical action at all, that is up to you. She will not show she likes you in the conventional sense, I personally hide my feelings for people. You'll just have to gamble that she's into you. As far as conversation, very little off-puts me except complaining, yelling, moodiness, crying, etc. Don't feel the need to have a formal Q/A conversation. Tell her whatever is on your mind, she will accept it and likely make you feel a good bit better. As far as showing interest, If people keep talking to me, go out of there way to be with me, I'll assume they're interested. Become friends first and slowly start to do relationship stuff to make her feel comfortable. We get scared if things move to fast. I'd give you more specific advice, but I'm a gay male so I'm rather derp with traditional relationships.
    Thank you, I mostly definitely appreciate an SLI's perspective, especially with such detail. Ugh, anxiety will be a hurdle, but as you said - hopefully it will all work out. Thank you for the reassurance and input!

  38. #518
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    How should I go about deep feelings/emotions/experiences?

    In my case, I just spit it out. He really liked listening to my experiences, insight, etc. I was always talking to him about how I felt at the moment, and how angry/sad/happy I was. They seem to appreciate it when it's not from a Fe perspective but rather an Fi one, if you get what I'm saying.

    What are some things that an individual could do, specifically an IEE, to brighten an SLIs day?
    These kind of things come naturally. I can't give you a particular answer because I just don't know the girl personally. However I must note that bringing new perspectives, ideas, etc. to their life is what they like the most. My SLI just spent all of his time at home. Do something new, take her to a new place, of course don't do anything flamboyant or that she will clearly not enjoy it. Also little things, be creative! just be yourself. If she's your dual, she'll appreciate it. (or at least, that's what the theory wants you to think.!)

    Pior experiences/testimonies?

    A way of attracting them is to be, well, a Ne ego. Seek protection. Let her see how you need her in your life. Appreciate her qualities. Notice them. Compliment her. Hug her (if you got this privilege let me tell you you have a really good chance of becoming close to her!). Just come and talk to her! be her friend! she, most definitely, won't take the first step to getting close to you. Hook her up with a casual but interesting conversation, and keep doing this. Don't get stuck on the looks, on the friction, on the atmosphere you perceive. We are a charming type, you know? use that! be yourself! don't be scared.
    The first thing I directly asked to my SLI was: Hey, do you dislike me? You're so aloof with me, did I do something wrong? He responded with a plain face, saying: No, actually, I think you're really nice. That's how I got my pass. I just got close to him gradually after that. We had common interests so it was a plus. I fell in love with an SLI (who I currently date) in high school. EP-IP takes turns to dualize, we get closer, we get apart. He was the one who fell for me first. So, from there, I just let myself be amazed, and annoyed, etc. It's not an easy dual pair, let me tell you, at the start, and I'm probably not the only one who thinks this. At first, I wasn't interested. I didn't want to be in a relationship because I didn't want commitment (typical.), he persisted, he keep on trying to get close to me, he couldn't believe what he felt, he didn't know what to do. SLIs are capable of moving mountains for you.
    However, since we've been together, things have been wonderful. When we first started dating, we just were with each other for months. We didn't want to see anybody else, because we were complete and fascinated. For me, as an IEE, he gave me a sense of permanence, a sense of belonging. SLI is not an easy person to handle, and not everyone can do it. They are quirky, say, they hide their emotions from everyone. There's nothing more rewarding than being the person who holds all the keys to them, and to their happiness. When my SLI smiles at me, I'm just so happy that the entire world lights up, because I'm probably the only one who has seen this sincere smile form him. I just couldn't believe I built a relationship like this! IEEs always have the reputation of disappearing from people's lives after becoming friends with them. But with him, we've become one, it's like a dream, and it's beyond romantic love.

    How can I fully show my appreciation and interest in her, without overwhelming her uncomfortably?
    You won't overwhelm her if you have private conversations. Just don't talk personal stuff in groups. Talk about whatever when you're alone with her. SLIs are very interesting and smart, and they tend to know about a lot of stuff, more deeply than IEEs. Drag her over and take a walk with her, and propose a topic. Let things flow.

    How will our relationship likely develop, at what speed, and what natural responsibilities/expectations will I have to uphold/acquire?
    Difficulties with this dual pair arise mostly at the start, but that won't guarantee you won't have those in the future. What do I mean? you might feel that the SLI is secluding you and restricting you from some people (boundaries, for an IEE?), they can also get grouchy, and like every person, have their problems, because socionics is not all that matters. Every relationship can have difficulties.
    Things you are expected to do vary from relationship to relationship and this is something that you and her should ultimately discuss yourselves. Theory is just theory, just that. Most descriptions in socionics think that the ethical type is obviously a woman. And they might come off as a bit gender-roleish. Which most people disagree on nowadays.

    I am a nervous regarding SLI's supposedly internal feelings/Fe PoLR. How should I go about this? What should I avoid, and what should I dwell towards?
    Just don't take her to a place where it's so noisy that you can't talk to her. Be private. Don't share things she's told you.

    DON'T BE SCARED! Socionics is just socionics! go for it !!

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    Default SLI-IEE Duality Questions :)

    Hey y'all! I'm new to this site, but I have a couple of questions about IEE-SLI duality!! Hooray!! I've separated them into three rough categories.

    1. I read somewhere, once upon a time, that SLI-IEE duality is the most fragile relationship in all of socionics! I can't find where I saw it written though - and to top it all off, there was no sort of explanation for WHY this would be the case to begin with! Does anyone know how this is and why? Are there certain ways to help IEE-SLI duality to form, and ensure that it is prolonged?

    2. What is meant by "harmony" of relations, and why is harmony a defining aspect of SLI-IEE duality? What exactly does this feel like when experienced?

    3. How can someone effectively begin relations with an SLI whether platonic or romantic? What are things y'all look for in friends or S/Os? Are there any things specifically NOT to do? Examples are appreciated!!! Hahahaha.

    I've interacted with a lot of ISTps in my life, but never for long enough. I appreciate y'alls feedback!! You're amazing.

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    you can go to where your heart is Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Connorrrrr View Post
    1. I read somewhere, once upon a time, that SLI-IEE duality is the most fragile relationship in all of socionics! I can't find where I saw it written though - and to top it all off, there was no sort of explanation for WHY this would be the case to begin with! Does anyone know how this is and why? Are there certain ways to help IEE-SLI duality to form, and ensure that it is prolonged?
    This has not been my experience at all, and I've never heard this before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Connorrrrr View Post
    2. What is meant by "harmony" of relations, and why is harmony a defining aspect of SLI-IEE duality? What exactly does this feel like when experienced?
    Feelings are wholly incommunicable, you have to experience it for yourself to understand. I assume "harmony" in relationships is meant to denote some sort of tangible synergy and ease of communication.

    Quote Originally Posted by Connorrrrr View Post
    3. How can someone effectively begin relations with an SLI whether platonic or romantic? What are things y'all look for in friends or S/Os? Are there any things specifically NOT to do? Examples are appreciated!!! Hahahaha.
    Be yourself, like every other interaction you have with another person. If you have to calculate how you interact with other people like that, it's never going to work out in your favor. So long as you behave naturally and healthy, the right people will be drawn to you naturally.

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