INFjs and initiating (anything), but conversations in particular

[UDP]

Do you just prefer someone else to start talking to you in general?
Particularly if you don't know each other.

I assume you prefer someone else to start things. But I guess I'm just wanting to verify that.

What do you find it easiest to start conversations about, if you are meeting someone new and you want to talk to them? (That's kind of a simplistic question, but oh well).


just curious.

[Christy B]

Do you just prefer someone else to start talking to you in general?
Particularly if you don't know each other.

Yes, probably. This is because I don't want to bother people, or am just kind of shy. But if someone is looking like they are isolated I may go up to them, to see if they are ok.

What do you find it easiest to start conversations about, if you are meeting someone new and you want to talk to them? (That's kind of a simplistic question, but oh well).

Um. Really anything as long as it is honest. I think it is boring when people try to be impressive or bullshit me.

In a social situation where there are a lot of people, maybe a party or something, I like it when someone will come up to talk to me and is willing to sit down and really listen to what I have to say. Maybe just ask how I am doing or what I am interested in currently.

[Lobo]

Do you just prefer someone else to start talking to you in general?
Particularly if you don't know each other.

I assume you prefer someone else to start things. But I guess I'm just wanting to verify that.

What do you find it easiest to start conversations about, if you are meeting someone new and you want to talk to them? (That's kind of a simplistic question, but oh well).


just curious.

Well, it's just a black and white. Either it's comfortable, or it's not. That's what determines action.

[xyz]

I find INFj's real quiet until I start talking to them.


Give em 5 minutes and they'll talk your ear off.

[Jane_Eyre]

I find INFj's real quiet until I start talking to them.


Give em 5 minutes and they'll talk your ear off.

True, true!

It takes a whole lot of energy for me to initiate a conversation, so mostly I don't. But once I find myself in one, I can be hard to stop. I even find myself interrupting the other person.

[rockclimber]

I find INFj's real quiet until I start talking to them.


Give em 5 minutes and they'll talk your ear off.

this is true for me.

[munenori2]

Do you just prefer someone else to start talking to you in general?
Particularly if you don't know each other.

I assume you prefer someone else to start things. But I guess I'm just wanting to verify that.

What do you find it easiest to start conversations about, if you are meeting someone new and you want to talk to them? (That's kind of a simplistic question, but oh well).


just curious.

I'm slightly retarded in that I picture me starting a conversation with someone else to be forcing myself on them. If you talk to me I'm glad to listen. If you listen back, I'll be glad to talk. If I'm glad to talk, I will keep on keepin' on till I think you're starting to get disinterested.

Honestly, it doesn't matter what it's about, so long as it touches on a subject of fascination (most subjects), isn't just small-talk, and seems sincere. I quickly become interested in things other people are, so long as they are genuine.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

They don't like randomness very much though I found out. Don't just jump around, but talk meaningful about something for at least a few minutes. Let them decide on whether or not to change the subject. They're static and can go on and on about the same thing for hours.

They might not seem to have any oomphiness, but they're like a dim light that will burn on forever.

INFjs are good at political debates and 'staying on topic' for this reason.

[xyz]

True, true!

It takes a whole lot of energy for me to initiate a conversation, so mostly I don't. But once I find myself in one, I can be hard to stop. I even find myself interrupting the other person.

this is true for me.

Heh, good. I'm terrible at small talk.

[Minde]

I'm slightly retarded in that I picture me starting a conversation with someone else to be forcing myself on them. If you talk to me I'm glad to listen. If you listen back, I'll be glad to talk. If I'm glad to talk, I will keep on keepin' on till I think you're starting to get disinterested.

Honestly, it doesn't matter what it's about, so long as it touches on a subject of fascination (most subjects), isn't just small-talk, and seems sincere. I quickly become interested in things other people are, so long as they are genuine.

Yeah, most of that sounds about right, although I'd say it applies more to people I don't know very well. With people I'm comfortable with, I think I'm just as likely to initiate a conversation as they are. Depending on the person, sometimes I'm the one who does most of the initiating even.

And, yes, the whole as long as they're interested thing is important. If I sense you're losing interest I'll get embarrassed and try to back out or something like that. But, again, for people I'm really comfortable with, sometimes I'll keep talking even if I know they're zoning on me. Sometimes I just need even a human-looking wall to talk to, just to get things out and discussed and thought and whatnot. Like sometimes I'll have this deep existential thought triggered by who-knows-what and if some convenient family member is near I'll ask their opinion and give mine (whether they were wanting it or not). But I wouldn't necessarily do that to just some random person or even most of my friends and coworkers - unless it was a really important or pressing thought. Then it might come out anyway...

But, anyway, yes, what you said, Munenori.

And, I tend to cordially dislike much small talk, too. Though really small talk ("How about the weather?") can save one from worse small talk ("They're having a sale at ... and I saw the cutest ...").

[hellothere]

And, I tend to cordially dislike much small talk, too. Though really small talk ("How about the weather?") can save one from worse small talk ("They're having a sale at ... and I saw the cutest ...").

haha yeah.

[munenori2]

@ Minde: Sorry, guess I was being a little unclear. My first bit had specifically people I don't know well in mind.

[FiNeAussie]

I'm slightly retarded in that I picture me starting a conversation with someone else to be forcing myself on them. If you talk to me I'm glad to listen. If you listen back, I'll be glad to talk. If I'm glad to talk, I will keep on keepin' on till I think you're starting to get disinterested.

Honestly, it doesn't matter what it's about, so long as it touches on a subject of fascination (most subjects), isn't just small-talk, and seems sincere. I quickly become interested in things other people are, so long as they are genuine.

Basically this. I am more than happy to talk to someone, anyone, providing they start the conversation first. I'm just not comfortable at all walking up to someone and starting to chat, unless I feel that person is hurt in any way because then I don't give it a second thought.

The lack of initiating stems, I think, from our complex moral and ethical systems. An ENFp explained what she thought of socialising to me once and it was one of those "Aha!" moments, like a lightbulb going off in your head. When you talk to someone, you aren't necessarily impinging on them (as I believed), you are giving them the gift of your presence. You are taking the time to 'say' to that person, listen i want to talk to you because this is important to me on some level. This is something I have to remind myself about constantly, otherwise I fall into the INFj trap of thinking of everyone as a clearly defined boundary, and being extremely respectful of other people's boundaries, I tend to avoid them. I'm not cold, I'm not ignoring you if I pass by you without saying something. I'm just lost within my own moral code which says "always respect another's person." and I feel I have little or no right to intrude unless you invite me. In essence I think of people as houses. I wouldn't rock up to a strangers house, and I especially wouldn't rock up without calling first or something, and then knocking politely and waiting for a response! But if you invite me to your "house", I'm more than happy to chat about pretty much anything, and the more you get to know me, the more you may want me around at your "house" (and the more I'll be happy to come around!).

[Christy B]

Basically this. I am more than happy to talk to someone, anyone, providing they start the conversation first. I'm just not comfortable at all walking up to someone and starting to chat, unless I feel that person is hurt in any way because then I don't give it a second thought.

The lack of initiating stems, I think, from our complex moral and ethical systems. An ENFp explained what she thought of socialising to me once and it was one of those "Aha!" moments, like a lightbulb going off in your head. When you talk to someone, you aren't necessarily impinging on them (as I believed), you are giving them the gift of your presence. You are taking the time to 'say' to that person, listen i want to talk to you because this is important to me on some level. This is something I have to remind myself about constantly, otherwise I fall into the INFj trap of thinking of everyone as a clearly defined boundary, and being extremely respectful of other people's boundaries, I tend to avoid them. I'm not cold, I'm not ignoring you if I pass by you without saying something. I'm just lost within my own moral code which says "always respect another's person." and I feel I have little or no right to intrude unless you invite me. In essence I think of people as houses. I wouldn't rock up to a strangers house, and I especially wouldn't rock up without calling first or something, and then knocking politely and waiting for a response! But if you invite me to your "house", I'm more than happy to chat about pretty much anything, and the more you get to know me, the more you may want me around at your "house" (and the more I'll be happy to come around!).

This is a great way of explaining it I think.

[munenori2]

This is a great way of explaining it I think.

+1

[hellothere]

for sure

I really relate to the feeling of "impinging" on other people, I am hypersensitive of intruding on other people's time

[ScarlettLux]

I've noticed one thing that all the EIIs seem to share in common on this forum - extremely long winded posts! I can barely read through them, my eyes start to bleed ... Personally (only due to our functional differences, obv.), it appears to me that you EIIs over-analyze very simple things related to ethics ... Like you nitpick at strange things. I can barely understand the point you are attempting to make, to be honest. Also - overly serious tone of the posts that sort of makes me giggle because to me, the content of the post doesn't warrant such a heavy atmosphere.

I just thought it was funny ... not trying to bash you guys at all, I'm sure you feel similarly baffled by Beta NFs as well.

EDIT! Except for rockclimber ... lol, she's very one-liner.

[tiny_dancer]

I've noticed this with both EIIs and SLIs. They're crazy worried over whether they're bothering someone... I don't think an introvert has ever bothered me. Is that possible?

[UDP]

It is very interesting to read this thread. So that's what it is like, huh.

[FiNeAussie]

There's a psychological concept called the Curse of Knowledge. It states that the more you know about something, the less able you are to consider how other people couldn't possibly know it! For example, I have such a highly refined and definite sense of personal space that if I don't constantly tell myself that I'm not intruding, then I feel like I'm intruding and I expect that you will feel like I'm intruding too, even though that's probably the last thing on your mind! This leads to a breakdown in unspoken communication and when you consider that the majority of all communication is nonverbal ... you have a problem.

So for the love of whatever INFj's you hold dear in your hearts, remember that fact. Our morality systems are so complex and deeply ingrained into who we are that they amaze even us at times. Respect that and try and approach us in a way where we don't feel that we have to break our code to speak to you (i.e try "inviting" us to talk to you), and maybe you will be surprised at the results.

[Minde]

I've noticed one thing that all the EIIs seem to share in common on this forum - extremely long winded posts! I can barely read through them, my eyes start to bleed ... Personally (only due to our functional differences, obv.), it appears to me that you EIIs over-analyze very simple things related to ethics ... Like you nitpick at strange things. I can barely understand the point you are attempting to make, to be honest. Also - overly serious tone of the posts that sort of makes me giggle because to me, the content of the post doesn't warrant such a heavy atmosphere.

I just thought it was funny ... not trying to bash you guys at all, I'm sure you feel similarly baffled by Beta NFs as well.

EDIT! Except for rockclimber ... lol, she's very one-liner.

Strange as it may seem, it's how we have fun.

*hands ScarlettLux a tissue for her eyes*

There's a psychological concept called the Curse of Knowledge. It states that the more you know about something, the less able you are to consider how other people couldn't possibly know it! For example, I have such a highly refined and definite sense of personal space that if I don't constantly tell myself that I'm not intruding, then I feel like I'm intruding and I expect that you will feel like I'm intruding too, even though that's probably the last thing on your mind! This leads to a breakdown in unspoken communication and when you consider that the majority of all communication is nonverbal ... you have a problem.

So for the love of whatever INFj's you hold dear in your hearts, remember that fact. Our morality systems are so complex and deeply ingrained into who we are that they amaze even us at times. Respect that and try and approach us in a way where we don't feel that we have to break our code to speak to you (i.e try "inviting" us to talk to you), and maybe you will be surprised at the results.

That's an interesting idea. I hadn't thought of it from that standpoint.

[Froody Blue Gem]

I'm not too good with conversation and prefer other people to initiate. Once, someone even pointed out that they never notice me initiating conversations, period. IRL, I will initiate, if no one else gets the ball rolling. Or I may be a bit slow to get my words out, when thinking of the ice breaker aspect. Especially if we don't know each other, I prefer the other person to initiate. Or if there is already a conversation going, I worry about jumping in at the wrong time.

I may not be sure off the bat if the person is interested in talking, and I am generally a quiet person. If the other person is not the best conversationalist either and we've never talked, it will probably end quickly. There are only so many topics out there, and I know I would bore the average person talking about things I'm interested in, because not everyone is interested in the same stuff as me.