That is not an argument forOriginally Posted by Expat
-- not in the slightest. In a recent real life example where a person explicitly said that he was shocked about someone's behaviour (the behaviour of me and a friend of mine) the "shocked" person had
in his ego block.
I disagree. There's different levels of being shocked. Not having some script translated into English is not really a comment on someones behaviour, like your Ti person was doing. This is like an action purely to create a reaction, which is in this context is rather Fe imoThat is not an argument for
Precisely my point. Which is not to say, though, that he wasn't really "shocked"; but to say it, as in "I am SHOCKED -- SHOCKED" is a way to call attention to his emotional state, and expecting some reaction, even if just the attention.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
@Expat: I see what you are saying; although, I have known some ISTjs very well and some of them are easily capable of saying this type of "shocked" line, yet are not necessarily are aware of what impact they're having. Perhaps they're trying to connect with others based on their strongly held ideals. (IME, ISTjs are apt to have strong beliefs/ideals, and will assert them with a flavor of idealistic perfectionism or (non-threatening) generic moral outrage). Consciously or not, this is probably how they are often able to connect with Fe+Ni ego types, because they seemingly declare these ideals in search of mutual affirmation -- which the Fe+Ni's may readily respond to with more conscious control, and rapport is established. (Ironically, they also act simultaneously cheerful if someone is agreeing with them.)
@tcaudilllg/in general: your exertion theory may be onto something (not that I have yet found reason yet to believe/support it; I have not thoroughly researched it); however, I'm first forced to consider that it seems a lot easier, and more accurate, for one to simply say, "hey, I might be an ISTj after all who's particularly dual-seeking with some of my ideological preoccupations" than to go through all the trouble of asserting a type model which doubles the scope of your starting base rather than building on a long-accepted, pre-existing foundation from a process-type of approach, as seems to be more common in good theories (...)
@everyone: tcaudilllg comes across way more like an ISTj IME (although, not a "typical" one. IMO, PotatoSpirit is a good benchmark of an average ISTj.) This is due to his style of communication, psychological concerns, perceptions and reaction styles (esp. wrt ENFj themes, ENTp themes). I really don't feel like going through the tedium of psychoanalyzing someone on the net. There's no payoff. Not to mention, it's not always easy codifying intuition in the form of an argument. That sounds tedious.
But I will say this: * his Ti base is evident; * in some of his posts, he focuses it on themes of leading and uniting groups of people in ideal ways (not in mundane/common/historical/even comfy, Si ways); * his posts lack Ne; * his posted theories often appear MORE like accounting spreadsheetsmore than succinct insights (NO offense) and this might indicate creative Se (visible, variable manipulations (like coding, even); * in the post I initially linked to, he contrasts some great personal vision of this ideal leader having forethought/etc wrt their impact on people (ENFj) vs some ENTp-ish creative leader who does not (to which my own subjectivity reacts, 'who cares?? Who cares about this stuff?! weird ...') and then he also appears to openly threatening deliberate nonfulfillment of his theoretically-imagined supervisor (ie, the {'bad'} leader) ENTp's admiration HA (which supervisees sometimes do, IME - esp. out of envy of their dominant function).
Others are free to their own opinions, of course. I just wanted to mention my perception in case it resonated with anyone else, triggered new insights, whatever ...
Some on this site already agree with what I'm about to write, but it seems good to re-assert that considering S-types as "uninterested in theories" and N's to be the "theoretical and imaginative ones" can be an unnecessary, misleading limitation for one to adhere to in the course of their typing studies.
Just to step back from all this with a question. If potato is a good example of an ISTj (which I think he is) how can you say that he is like tcaudilllg. Apart from maybe Ti, where are the similarities? even Ti is different as it comes through a different creative channel. The two of them seem far too different from what I've seen.
Where are Niffweed's funny ape pictures when you need them? :rolls eyes:
*GRRRAAAAAAAARRRR!* ME OGRE.
*raises highclub over Dee...*
*SPLAT!*
Having met PotatoSpirit, he's much more like a Ti subtype than Se subtype.
If you use Meged's descriptions:
PotatoSpirit is much, much more like the logical subtype description than the sensory subtype description. He's the embodiment of IJ temperament and his Se is not immediately visible, but it's there underneath.INSTRUCTOR
Logical subtype are confident in itself, it is calm, restrained, dryish, correct and not penetrated. It now and then seems haughty. Is moderately amiable, imperturbable bezemotsionalen. It is very polite and attentive to the details of conversation, loves everything to refine and to explain. It stops on not very essential for other details. It is leisurely, now and then even sluggish. It loves to obtain the detailed and comprehensive information to its questions. It does not love uncertainty. It is internally very assembled.
It loses the presence of spirit and tries never to encourage those, who need its support. Has the straight line, fixed, which looks as through the collocutor, the view, but not experiencing, but is more indifferent. Motions measured off, but somewhat forged. With walking it a little shuffles by foot-wear. When it is turned, it makes this with entire body. It seems that the neck is fixed on the arms, it does not love to twirl by head.
CONTROLLER
Sensory subtype appears by more agitated in his behavior and internally more emotional person. It is reticent, but it is very obstinate and it can enter the conflict, when they are not considered its opinion. If it flares up, it is superfluously sharp and categorical in its statements.
It is restrained, cold, it does not love objections and long explanations. Constantly unnoticeably it follows the actions of others, trying soak to them or the errors. It is sometimes agitated by anything and observations are made, sometimes undertakes for the matter itself or tries soak to make it better without the excess words. By periods it attempts to correct position and then smiles preuvelichenno politely. With walking "is stamped" the step. Gait is sufficiently rapid. He appears by man pulled and active. It dresses conservative, although sometimes it attempts to appear aesthetically, even it is fashionable. With the conversation he tries to approach the collocutor, but without the direct contact. It is not inclined to the affectionate rotation even with the relatives.
I don't I think understand what you mean. What do you mean? Is this copied and pasted from a translator program as it doesn't read as fluent.
No, Phaedrus is definitely NT (vs. tcaud` propositionally not being NT).
I have doubted niffweed's typing before, but have no compelling reason at present to get into that subject.
While we're on the topic, Blauritson is another poster on this forum whom I've said is ISTj, not INTp, and still hold to this. IMO, he is a good example of a common phenomenon (again, IMO) whereby one (tests and/or) mistypes oneself "one-wing" along a their ring of benefit.
Last edited by astralsilky; 02-25-2008 at 08:12 AM.
Well let's see some examples, then. I'll let you know, I've recently posted lots of Ne stuff to my blog....
OK, I'll look at your blog but for now:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...0&postcount=14
this thread looks like Ni Hidden Agenda to me.
I've known a few ISTjs who were occasional very interested in fantasy - the more nonsensical, the better (eg, films such as The City of Lost Children, or The Adventures of Baron von Munchhausen (sp)). They seemed unable to generate it for themselves, and so are more often delighted spectators of those who could manufacture such experiences for them, from time to time.
Yes, I agree the initial theme is Ni. On its own it is not sufficient proof, of course, but certainly good evidence to add to the case for Ni + possible Fe quadra values.
May I ask upon thy reasoning for this?
ILI (Indescribable Lovemaking Inc.)
5w4 so/sx
"IP temperament! Because today's concerns are tomorrow's indifferences!"
Lord Fnorgle's Domain - A slowly growing collection of music, poetry and literature.
Stickam music performances
You're right; I could actually see that, forceful and demanding like an ST... He is a bit of a juxtapoxtion in some ways though. Probably not good as an example of any type at second thought.i think he is ESTJ or at least serous and likely delta imo.
Oh-HOOoooo!!! So now you lay the ISTj gallantry on me!!
Shiver me timbers.
This reminds me how performing music on stage is related to Fe and why I suck at it.
It's all about provoking a reaction! (< not really)
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Not always. Sometimes (and just as importantly) it's about establishing a connection between the performer and the audience.This reminds me how performing music on stage is related to Fe and why I suck at it.
It's all about provoking a reaction! (< not really)
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Would that be more related to Fi or Si then, or is it still Fe? Or maybe it cannot be related to a specific function?
It is definitely something I give more credit than just creating an emotional reaction/atmosphere.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Probably Fi.
For the record, I do think that TC is an LII, based upon what I've read of his.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Maybe. But Expat uses it as an argument for certain types, and as you can see for yourself, it is a very unreliable typing method. That he uses it so much is the main cause of some of his mistypings.
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