No Country For Old Men

[Ms. Kensington]

Has anyone seen the movie or read the book? Very excellent.

I couldn't help but think that Chigurh is an ENTj or possibly an ISxj. Everything he said seemed to be smoothly classifiable as an example of a viewpoint influenced by certain functions.

I thought I would start a thread, which I had wanted to for the longest time, but didnt get around to.

a few quotes. (they are not word for word in all cases)

"you talk about what could be but it is not that way. it is this way". Seems to clearly find considering alternate ways of doing something pointless. He wants to pay attention to what is actually happening. Valuing Se.

"[talking to a zoned out shopkeeper] what time do you close? [shopkeeper says "now"] now is not a time, what time do you close? .. what time do you go to bed? You're a bit deaf aren't you? what time do you go to bed?" values paying attention, seems to not understand small talk and focuses on factual accuracy. Te ego, Se valuing.

"[woman says that a coin toss doesn't have a say in what Chigurh does, rather the choice is his] *rolling eyes* but i got here the same way the coin did. ... The coin was travelling 20 years to get to this place and now its here." Seeing things through, or valuing Ni. Probably not program Ni. But seems related to Ni.

"I know something better [than where something is right now]. I know where it will be. [someone responds, you dont know for a certainty] I do know for a certainty." devaluing Ne.

I was actually confused by this one though:
"[responding to an accountant saying that a separate party was sent out for him, the reasoning supporting it being that the more people doing something, the greater chance one would accomplish the goal or something similar] that is foolish, you choose the one right tool"

Fascinating to watch, you all should see the movie

Also seems to act in courteous ways, rule driven in ethics. Yet seems to not have command of Fe. ENTj.

[Garmonbozia]

They talked like THAT? Eee gads how could anyone ignore Cormac McCarthy's gift for dialog? I haven't respected the Coen brothers since I saw The Big Lebowski.

But everyone says No Country is 'sposed to be good. So I will watch it when it comes.

[Ms. Kensington]

well.. i mean i really was scared that the dog was gonna get him... so i mean there's action and its entertaining at least!!! was also able to read at 4x my normal speed when reading the book in the aisle at the book store. easy reading. I would say at least the movie is masterful!

[munenori2]

well.. i mean i really was scared that the dog was gonna get him... so i mean there's action and its entertaining at least!!! was also able to read at 4x my normal speed when reading the book in the aisle at the book store. easy reading. I would say at least the movie is masterful!

Are you saying that the movie was better than the book (that I didn't even know existed)?

discojoe could probably say a few pithy things about that film. His interpretation was a lot more nuanced than what I got in my first watching. I actually didn't like the movie until he gave it an underlying theme which seemed to fit with the characters/conflicts. I'll hold my tongue as far as the socionic aspect goes. Well, not completely. Llewelyn and the assassin guy (I don't know how his name was spelled, sounded like Chigur or something) seemed distinctly sensors. I'll bet that enlightens you tons.

You're welcome.

[Kristiina]

I have seen the movie. Possibly the lousiest movie I've seen in a few years. It was so boring and slow that it was almost entertaining. But overall me and Erkki disapproved.

We decided the movie is delta. Slow and deep. No music to set the mood, only people talking in a numb voice. The main character is a hard-working person who earns enough to get by (delta values) and as soon as he gets even a little greedy, everything goes wrong. The main character is ISTp. And we decided the killer is too insane to be typed.

[Ms. Kensington]

Are you saying that the movie was better than the book (that I didn't even know existed)?

discojoe could probably say a few pithy things about that film. His interpretation was a lot more nuanced than what I got in my first watching. I actually didn't like the movie until he gave it an underlying theme which seemed to fit with the characters/conflicts. I'll hold my tongue as far as the socionic aspect goes. Well, not completely. Llewelyn and the assassin guy (I don't know how his name was spelled, sounded like Chigur or something) seemed distinctly sensors. I'll bet that enlightens you tons.

You're welcome.

no.. i was saying that i thought the movie was good, and wanted to steer attention away from the fact that ihavent finished the book yet.

personally I dont see how someone could not think about what the movie meant, especially with its (unconventional) ending.

what i appreciate about it is that I think it's almost perfect in its execution. there are some things i didn't like, but i think the vast majority of it was near perfect. The lack of dialogue and sountrack, plus lots of procedural scenes. I could see people not liking the style, just like someone could not like manifestations of a function, but at least, i hope, people can appreciate something done well, like a person of a certain type acting from their ego. heh.

anyway.... point of thread was getting feedback about what I saw as chigurh's views/themes of the movie.

Kri, that's interesting, I could see how the movie might seem slow to some, but i thought the pacing was just right for the story.

[Ezra]

I've only seen the film; I haven't read the book. Chigurh was a mystery to me; I saw almost no functions at work with him; simply sheer determination. Now that people mention it, the Ni in his ideas was evident; the way he'd talk to the poor Delta shopkeeper about the coin, for example. I suppose some of this behaviour could well be related to Te and 'what works' e.g. killing a guy on the highway so he didn't have to drive the police car, using a simple device to find out where Moss was hiding, and using a pressurised tank to kill people, but that could just be about a man who will stop at nothing to get his target.

I haven't respected the Coen brothers since I saw The Big Lebowski.

What are you talking about? TBL was a great rendition of the classic The Big Sleep.

[discojoe]

One of the best movies I've ever seen. I don't know what Chigurh's type is, but he is pure evil.

[discojoe]

There is also a sequel, No Country for Old Hen.

[Ms. Kensington]

[Bardia]

I didn't care for the movie too much. Mostly because I don't think I really understand the underlying theme.

[Kristiina]

it was a semi-indie movie. It's underlying theme was to be original and artsy.

[Ezra]

There is also a sequel, No Country for Old Hen.

it was a semi-indie movie. It's underlying theme was to be original and artsy.

That isn't a theme. That's an aim or objective.

[discojoe]

it was a semi-indie movie. It's underlying theme was to be original and artsy.

Totally wrong.

[Ezra]

I saw this again yesterday afternoon. Chigurh is, in my opinion, a Gamma NT. He probably is LIE. Llewellyn is an LSE. Tommy Lee Jones' cop character is probably Delta ST as well.

I didn't care for the movie too much. Mostly because I don't think I really understand the underlying theme.

The underlying theme is that the "Old West" is no longer what it used to be. Things have changed far beyond what the old-timers can accept or understand. None of these people have ever, for a century, felt the need to adapt, but time has caught up with them. Literally, it has become no country for old men.

[DividedsGhost]

I didn't care for the movie too much. Mostly because I don't think I really understand the underlying theme.

IMO, the movie was kind of one big gamma NT philosophy with little gamma Ni philosophies thrown in. The movie represents the dynamic dichotomy in many ways in the themes that Anton sometimes talks about and even in how the movie ends - with no ending and no beginning, everything just keeps going.


IMO:
Like Anton asking people to call it. He had decided on a way of life that meant killing other people to follow and he felt the only fair way to allow someone to live when he was intending to kill them would be to make the decision for both of them up to chance (flipping the coin); because if he let them live as they wanted to he would be resigning his own will to the will of another. Anton believes much in action of will to get what one wants.

And when the guy in the shop asks Anton what he's going to win in the coin toss and Anton says everything. And before the shop guy asked "What am I putting up?" and Anton says "you've been putting it up your whole life". Anton implicitly equates having a will with a desire to survive.

And he tells the lady at the end that as soon as he got to the house she was already dead after she tells him he doesn't have to "do this". So he gives her the coin flip for the same reason as the shop guy.

Anton is probably LIE-Ni. Or perhaps an in-between type with ILI (seems to alternate between the cognitive styles of LIE and ILI) and is completely cut off from his feeling (Fi). I guess he's a psychopath, but I like him because he at least "makes sense", whereas most people often live arbitrarily, as if living solely for the coin toss.

[Gilly]

Anton was LSI.

[DividedsGhost]

Heh...dude Gilly. I actually thought you might say that.

Yeah maybe.

[strrrng]

great film. gamma set in a delta context, a pretty good example of quadra regression. you can just imagine the gamma procession naturally giving way to a beta underworld. chigurh was Ni-ILI 5w4 sp/sx, llewellyn Te-SLI 6w5 sp/so, tommy lee jones' character some delta ST, llewellyn's wife SEI, carson ILE, and the old guy at the end LSI.

the best aspect of the film imo is how chigurh by in fact not being nihilistic enough (i.e. the coin toss only goes so far) ends up fitting into a perfect kind of nihilism as the film progresses. 'the coin got here the same way I did' perfectly expresses the implicit limitations of his position, which, accentuated by his understated eccentricity manifest in occasional forms of expression, really makes his character a philosophy embodied.

[PussyInASarcophagus]

It's a fantastic film. I still haven't read the book though but to echo someone already said, it does feel quite embarrassing that the film lacks McCarthy's gift for dialogue. Nevertheless, it is an excellent picture and possibly still the best Best Picture winner of the century.

I agree that the underlying theme is Gamma in a Delta context. Progression into what is perceived as a degeneracy not with melancholy but by depicting nostalgic sentiment as delusional. Seen from the very beginning, in where Tommy Lee Jones recalls the time when his old man had to face pure evil. It's not that there wasn't any in the first place, it's that they've become sensitized by their old age, they've been blinded by nostalgia that they never saw how truly rotten their world was in the first place so now they are obliged to adapt.

This is something that even the least intellectual could get to see so comments like 'it's artsy for artsy sake' are moronic. Especially given the fact that the Coens aren't even that stylistic in the first place.

[Kill4Me]

I just saw this again the other night with my IEI-Ni 4w5 sx/sp. I wanted to subject her to No Country For Old Men as she had never seen it before. I saw things in it that I did not see the first time. Chigurh ended up with all the money.

Anton: SLI-Te 8w9 sp/sx
Llewellyn: SLI-Si 6w7 so/sp
Carson: ILE-Ti 3w2 sp/so

Chigurh is a good example of the 8w9's diabolical-aggressive gestalt. In a research paper done on fictional psychopaths, the researchers used Kuklinski (SLI 8w9 sp/sx) as the prototypical idiopathic psychopath. Chigurh was found to be his closest fit in so far as psychological markers go. So many pieces of evidence makes it apparent. For example, Chigurh's use of an Airgun is equivalent to Kuklinski's use of a nasal-spray bottle filled with cyanide in terms of a diabolical gestalt.

[timber]

About shifting reality in the wake of the 9/11 event. Terror without a motivation easily understood. That's why it won Best Picture 6 years afterwards, which is just enough time for the emotional reactions to subsist and the psychological underpinnings to become the collective unconscious. Characters are broadly casted arch-types. The bad guy, the police chief, the tough protagonist. All of the Western movie genre.

Logic of actions abounds. Josh Brolin, LSE, goes SLI if you want to say. I disagree about Kuklinkski. LSE get introverted as they age.

[Kill4Me]

He was even more of an introvert in younger age. See Phillip Carlo's book.