EIEs/ENFjs with fragile egos and need to dominate

[shakealittle]

Fe-EIE or Ni-EIE? in Alpha, games are supposed to follow Ti+Ne rules. in Gamma, people quarrel over things and then have sex. all Ti types have to weather Fe storms, but it's Ni subtypes who breach the levees.

I have no idea about subtypes but I'd guess she's a Fe-EIE. Though the Ni description does make a lot of sense for the male EIE I'm having difficulty with....so avoidant.

They're probably pissed off at you and punishing you. They didn't like the way you treated the new girl (ESI) -- you probably did something with your behaviour that slighted them, upset them, made them feel 'replaced' or 'demoted'. So being nice to the person you slighted them for and 'taking' that person away from you is the automatic response. Sort of like saying: 'look, if I wanted to, I could make you feel the same way -- but normally I don't, so you shouldn't either because it feels crappy.' They'll probably also get over it soon, once they feel they've punished you enough and worked it out of their system.

This was really helpful. So, out of interest, how does the EIE want me to react in the situation? I just didn't see it coming because we didn't really establish a friendship to begin with as she's "close" to a SLI who she's worked with for years.
I was being friendly to the ESI because she was new and no one else took the initiative to talk to her. She also approached me a number of times.

[JuJu]

We may have fragile egos and a need to dominate, but we also have above average sized penises (it's type related...) so you take the good with the bad, right?



unefille's analysis sounds right on in this case.

[07490]

ummm it seems like a lot of people have bad opinions on the EIE's.

[unefille]

ummm it seems like a lot of people have bad opinions on the EIE's.

That's what SELF LOVE is for, bitch.

This was really helpful. So, out of interest, how does the EIE want me to react in the situation? I just didn't see it coming because we didn't really establish a friendship to begin with as she's "close" to a SLI who she's worked with for years.
I was being friendly to the ESI because she was new and no one else took the initiative to talk to her. She also approached me a number of times.

I'm not sure if there's anything you can really do proactively to disarm her, because often the seed of the irritation/annoyance lies with irrational and ineffable perception rather than any real situation that can be fixed. Emotional turbulence often needs an internal process. There's also so much I don't know about your working relationship and the dynamics of everything, so this is sort of a very flawed exercise in projection.

But generally speaking, irrespective of everything else, if she's being a bitch and you're sick of it, I'd say calm, rational confrontation might be the best answer? So much of the emotional terrorism is really a form of acting out that they're probably are only half aware of what they're doing anyway. Normally getting called on it forces a pause, a consideration of the behaviour and almost serves as a reality check. It's pretty easy to get carried away with latent perceptions, since the original seed just sort of grows and fuels this internal drama that becomes less and less referable to anything actually taking place.

fwiw though, I can't imagine this state of affairs lasting very long. Once its out of our system and the initial 'cause' no longer present, it's pretty much all gone. In this case if it's just the addition of someone new to the workforce, once that element ceases (new girl just becomes 'one of the crew'), everything will probably abate. EIE behaviour, however much they may wish to hold onto a certain internal state, will ultimately and ineluctably respond to the changes in the contextual dynamic.

[07490]

That's what SELF LOVE is for, bitch.

Do you date identical? INFp's here talks about being attracted to their identical where as I love and always TURN on when I see my identical, maybe we can ditch the LSI, like I can really see myself with you, you know. I think I'm self qualify in your books, please don't play any games with me and I will probaly adapt myself and be the aggressor if i were to hopelessly having a beautiful romance relationship with you.

I've known many EIE females throughout my life, and they tend to play with my mind the most. These people are very hardcore. I've notice they all have that subtle dominance that guards a fierce inner storm which blockade their will to submit to me. When I look closely, it appears as if they have an uncultivated static electricity intensifying up an astounding vaporous "hard to get with" attitude in them and I would play "let them tied me up for a second". Yet somehow, on some level they're able to obtain a victimize mind through all of this. They always seem to be so much sexier than they'd ever like to appear, both physically and mentally; this is never very obvious. There is that silent "I have dirty thoughts about you in them" .That magnet appeal that both draws and expels -- and a lot of the time they can be quite aware of this. It's so weird. They don't know what they want but me. They want to eat you, they want to pull my plants off, they want to lick me from head to toe. I won't even describe other aspects. I've looked at them in various levels with a twisted fusion of envy, narcissism, admiration, and frustration.

[shakealittle]

ummm it seems like a lot of people have bad opinions on the EIE's.

It is just a discussion on a facet of an EIEs personality. It's not an all-encompassing opinion of EIEs?

I'm not sure if there's anything you can really do proactively to disarm her, because often the seed of the irritation/annoyance lies with irrational and ineffable perception rather than any real situation that can be fixed. Emotional turbulence often needs an internal process. There's also so much I don't know about your working relationship and the dynamics of everything, so this is sort of a very flawed exercise in projection.

But generally speaking, irrespective of everything else, if she's being a bitch and you're sick of it, I'd say calm, rational confrontation might be the best answer? So much of the emotional terrorism is really a form of acting out that they're probably are only half aware of what they're doing anyway. Normally getting called on it forces a pause, a consideration of the behaviour and almost serves as a reality check. It's pretty easy to get carried away with latent perceptions, since the original seed just sort of grows and fuels this internal drama that becomes less and less referable to anything actually taking place.

fwiw though, I can't imagine this state of affairs lasting very long. Once its out of our system and the initial 'cause' no longer present, it's pretty much all gone. In this case if it's just the addition of someone new to the workforce, once that element ceases (new girl just becomes 'one of the crew'), everything will probably abate. EIE behaviour, however much they may wish to hold onto a certain internal state, will ultimately and ineluctably respond to the changes in the contextual dynamic.

Yeah I was worried about the EIE blowing everything out of proportion because I can so easily see that happening. In a worst-case scenario I could see her trying to project a negative image of me onto the ESI. Definitely something I don't want in the workplace. She is friends with quite a few EIEs too and I'd imagine they'd support her despite any real evidence. I'd hate to get on the wrong side of EIEs, that's for sure. Though there doesn't seem to be a way around it? I can do my best to distance myself from them as much as possible (as is the case with this EIE) or do the opposite, and become close to them....it doesn't seem to matter....they can be just as controlling. They have a few select people that I believe they would support and excuse regardless of circumstances....and I imagine those people to be EIEs.
All I can say is I'm so glad that I have a LSI manager who would probably understand my point of view. Beta STs ftw.

I'm not sure confronting the situation will help. In my experience EIEs will refute my Ti in favor of those prevailing emotions you speak of. Really frustrating.

[07490]

It is just a discussion on a facet of an EIEs personality. It's not an all-encompassing opinion of EIEs?

I understand, But all in all I don't believe Beta in general are suppose fit into this world just like that in their default mode. Still In my very honest mind I do believe majority of Beta NF are very altruistic people in heart and I claim more so than some types to be. I don't know if that will sound arrogant or not, but I feel like other types, by their default ways of acting are able to get away with things and people will brush it all as normal, Like if a Beta NF are sensitive to some issue, people will take us as we are highly sensitive people, and its our fault that we are sensitive about it. where as some types can be rude but becuase the Average Joe's are like that, people will understand them better. It's just a very unbalance and unfair genetic make up of the human mind and the structure of the true nature of model A.

[idealistichick]

I just saw this thread and all I have to say is people leave EIE's alone! And Betas too for that matter.

[JuJu]

I'm not sure confronting the situation will help. In my experience EIEs will refute my Ti in favor of those prevailing emotions you speak of. Really frustrating.

I'm sorry that this is happening to you... This Fe-EIE doesn't sound particularly enlightened... You're right, sometimes EIEs will just continue on despite Ti, just to 'get in your face.'

It's immature... And I have done it myself.

The best way to handle a EIE is to go in and be sincere... Sincerity beats me every time. Honestly.

[Banana Pancakes]

Disclaimer: It's foolish to assume that the behavior of a few unhealthy EIEs extends to all EIEs.

An unhealthy EIE I was close with until recently does have a sort of "need to dominate" in the arena of group emotion. The EJ-ness of EIEs is revealed in their need to lead groups, need for groups to feel as they feel, need to have an overall flow to the group, etc.

The particular issue which this one pushed me to far with is some sort of corrupt need for people to like him better than me. If he sees me chatting/getting along/being liked by someone he must charge in and win that person over to himself as well. Naturally he's better at social interactions and usually wins, but the problem is that he does this with any female who I am attracted to or vice versa, and has basically destroyed multiple opportunities with a mutually acquainted XEI.

Yet he himself is a very pathetic individual, sees himself as garbage, knows he isn't compatible with XEI etc. An LSI has recently latched onto him but even she is not enough to stop him from pursuing the XEI when I'm around. It's would be humorous if I weren't involved.

[Satan]

Disclaimer: It's foolish to assume that the behavior of a few unhealthy EIEs extends to all EIEs.

An unhealthy EIE I was close with until recently does have a sort of "need to dominate" in the arena of group emotion. The EJ-ness of EIEs is revealed in their need to lead groups, need for groups to feel as they feel, need to have an overall flow to the group, etc.

The particular issue which this one pushed me to far with is some sort of corrupt need for people to like him better than me. If he sees me chatting/getting along/being liked by someone he must charge in and win that person over to himself as well. Naturally he's better at social interactions and usually wins, but the problem is that he does this with any female who I am attracted to or vice versa, and has basically destroyed multiple opportunities with a mutually acquainted XEI.

Yet he himself is a very pathetic individual, sees himself as garbage, knows he isn't compatible with XEI etc. An LSI has recently latched onto him but even she is not enough to stop him from pursuing the XEI when I'm around. It's would be humorous if I weren't involved.

Just laugh. Hey, if the XEI can't see through it then they suck anyway. Get a better model.

[jewels]

I really wish I could understand ENFjs better. I often react badly to their attempts to control (whether for fragile ego reasons or whatever) and show this bad emotion to them, though I try not to...which they react badly to. it's frustrating.

If anyone has some tips on how I can better understand ENFjs, or approaches that would work better w/ them I'd love some advice. I do think they're nice people and would like to get along better with them.

I can really see the sensitivity in some ENFjs, like a need to be liked just like ENFps have. But I think the way that I show that I like someone may not come through clearly to them. And when I try to use too much Fe I start to feel silly, as I'm much better at Fi.

Fe and Fi are like Apple and Mac or something...arg...

[unefille]

Yeah I was worried about the EIE blowing everything out of proportion because I can so easily see that happening. In a worst-case scenario I could see her trying to project a negative image of me onto the ESI. Definitely something I don't want in the workplace. She is friends with quite a few EIEs too and I'd imagine they'd support her despite any real evidence. I'd hate to get on the wrong side of EIEs, that's for sure. Though there doesn't seem to be a way around it? I can do my best to distance myself from them as much as possible (as is the case with this EIE) or do the opposite, and become close to them....it doesn't seem to matter....they can be just as controlling. They have a few select people that I believe they would support and excuse regardless of circumstances....and I imagine those people to be EIEs.
All I can say is I'm so glad that I have a LSI manager who would probably understand my point of view. Beta STs ftw.

I'm not sure confronting the situation will help. In my experience EIEs will refute my Ti in favor of those prevailing emotions you speak of. Really frustrating.

Sorry, I'm tipsy right now, so the image you painted of an EIE cabal just cracked me up. I don't know, I've never experienced it in real life, but I'm usually quite good at getting people on my side of things, so I have honestly speaking, no perspective on that whatsoever.

What I can definitely tell you though is that I react really poorly to being told what to do, being told I'm wrong and being told to accept someone else's view. To be completely honest here, I find that LSIs are mostly awesome at rationalising their own mistakes and painstakingly using flimsy Ti-reasoning to demonstrate how they're not wrong -- I've had some LSIs listen to me relay things about other LSIs and shake their heads and go 'dear god, I know exactly what they're doing.' So Beta rationality sort of works not on both types being reasonable but on both types being obstinate. As much as you don't want to be controlled (and LSIs are quite controlling), to the same degree the EIE hates being controlled and seeks to control others. Two sides, same coin. And to be even more frank, I've grown up around LSIs and you know, they can reasonable, but they also tend to not be the frankest of people - when I'm in a shit mood, they sort of take my shit mood and run with it and get pissed off and irritable and shouty and frankly, I shout back. That's part of the duality. The thing is, a little time passes, everyone cools down, apologises and moves on.

An LSI said to me today: 'You really like romanticising things huh? You don't like to face the truth.'

And you know what? If that's Ti, I just blew him off. I just asked him if he thought his idea of reality was somehow more truthful than mine just because it was more cynical and mroe black and white. And we both laughed. And moved on. I find duals balance each other. So - to the extent that your dual seems 'off-center' somehow, you are as well. I've known non-dualised LSIs who I've had to shout down to get them to stop clinging to the thin fabrication of a technical truth and see the actual falsehood (this is really bad when ethics gets into the mix). And duality is both easy and hard. It's really easy for me to get 'on' with LSIs. It's also really hard, takes a lot of time, and a lot of work and growth, to REALLY get into the skin of either, coz frankly, beta rationals? Too many fucking issues with control (of others, of ourselves) and too many fucking boundaries and places we're not comfortable with and tendencies to be our way or the highway. It cuts both way with both EIEs and LSIs and if it didn't -- if one was hard and the other was soft, it wouldn't work half as well. Well, that's my two cents, anyway.

[dinki]

Sorry, I'm tipsy right now, so the image you painted of an EIE cabal just cracked me up. I don't know, I've never experienced it in real life, but I'm usually quite good at getting people on my side of things, so I have honestly speaking, no perspective on that whatsoever.

What I can definitely tell you though is that I react really poorly to being told what to do, being told I'm wrong and being told to accept someone else's view. To be completely honest here, I find that LSIs are mostly awesome at rationalising their own mistakes and painstakingly using flimsy Ti-reasoning to demonstrate how they're not wrong -- I've had some LSIs listen to me relay things about other LSIs and shake their heads and go 'dear god, I know exactly what they're doing.' So Beta rationality sort of works not on both types being reasonable but on both types being obstinate. As much as you don't want to be controlled (and LSIs are quite controlling), to the same degree the EIE hates being controlled and seeks to control others. Two sides, same coin. And to be even more frank, I've grown up around LSIs and you know, they can reasonable, but they also tend to not be the frankest of people - when I'm in a shit mood, they sort of take my shit mood and run with it and get pissed off and irritable and shouty and frankly, I shout back. That's part of the duality. The thing is, a little time passes, everyone cools down, apologises and moves on.

An LSI said to me today: 'You really like romanticising things huh? You don't like to face the truth.'

And you know what? If that's Ti, I just blew him off. I just asked him if he thought his idea of reality was somehow more truthful than mine just because it was more cynical and mroe black and white. And we both laughed. And moved on. I find duals balance each other. So - to the extent that your dual seems 'off-center' somehow, you are as well. I've known non-dualised LSIs who I've had to shout down to get them to stop clinging to the thin fabrication of a technical truth and see the actual falsehood (this is really bad when ethics gets into the mix). And duality is both easy and hard. It's really easy for me to get 'on' with LSIs. It's also really hard, takes a lot of time, and a lot of work and growth, to REALLY get into the skin of either, coz frankly, beta rationals? Too many fucking issues with control (of others, of ourselves) and too many fucking boundaries and places we're not comfortable with and tendencies to be our way or the highway. It cuts both way with both EIEs and LSIs and if it didn't -- if one was hard and the other was soft, it wouldn't work half as well. Well, that's my two cents, anyway.

Haha oh this is good =]. This thread is bullshit, I have never met an EIE like that, even the 'unhealthy' ones.

IEIs & EIEs like some direction and support, but we don't like to be controlled, we all totally resent this. Fuck what socionics say, talk about a misunderstanding. We hate that.