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Thread: My problem with how people "change" types here on the forum

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    Default My problem with how people "change" types here on the forum

    Look - you have to realize that no matter how many types you've considered, or how many times you've changed your considerations, that you have been and always will be the same type.

    It is completely ludicrous how people keep flipping back and forth - who are you fooling? Are you really just not sure? I mean, in your mind, is what you are doing appearing reasonable? "Oh yeah, I changed my type again...".

    I am not sure if I am addressing this with enough lucidity, but, do you understand what I am getting at?


    There is a world of difference between every type. You are not "torn" between two types, the misunderstanding is in your own head. You are clearly and fully one type. It is your job (or it ought to be) to figure out what that type is, by being honest with yourself. It isn't about "oh, I relate to parts of what this says, and parts of this too.... so I must be a little of both". No, no, no. It doesn't work that way.

    People seem to cling to "well it is perfectly ok if I relate to that, even though it is not in this profile!". Like it has some sort of meaning. You have to stop thinking in terms of whatever regular thought pattern you are using and look at things from a socionics, type-orientated perspective.

    (This is also why it is extremely irritating when people say certain things about my type, or comments like "Hey, you seem to be showing weak Se lately - are you sure about your type? Have you considered this?" or, "Hey, you seem to be showing strong Se lately - are you sure about your type?" I mean....... don't you understand how foolish those sorts of comments are?)



    Anyways, moving on: another thing -
    Deciding between INFp and INFj - that is a world of difference, folks! It is not "just one letter". Those to types are worlds apart. One is victim, one is infantile. Fe Fi. Beta Delta. And so on. The point here is, when you are torn between ANY two types, there is VAST difference between them. If you are going to be torn between two, at least have them be mirrors, I suppose.

    Crossing the Fe/Fi line, especially repeatedly, is completely uncalled for. And it is not just Fe/Fi, it is Fe&Ti vs Te&Fi. If you don't know if you are Fe or Fi, that is a huge problem. That is a huge problem and you have to work that out ASAP. That is definitely one of the most evident lines there is in socionics, and if you are not aware of that, then you really need to work it out and look at what is going on in how people are acting around you. Interpersonally it ought to be very clear to you which side of that line you fall on.


    Similarly, Se/Si.
    That one might be a little more difficult, but once you figure out Fe/Fi, determining which of the two quadras you fall into should become clear. (because each of the remaining quadras values either Se or Si, and not both)


    From there you should at least have a solid quadra. And from that quadra you have your temperment and other things. So, just use that plan! You absolutely should not be wandering between the quadras, especially opposing ones. If you find yourself wondering which of the opposing quadras you are in, start over, do something else, that is just foolish.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
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    I'd say in many instances the real problem is outside pressure towards, or against, a given type. If people have correctly identified the fuctions and have correctly identified their behavior and have correctly identified their friends' functions, then they will correctly type themselves. Now, the hardest part is acceptance of this typing by the community.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I'd say in many instances the real problem is outside pressure towards, or against, a given type. If people have correctly identified the fuctions and have correctly identified their behavior and have correctly identified their friends' functions, then they will correctly type themselves. Now, the hardest part is acceptance of this typing by the community.
    A valid point. And building on that a bit, there will be times when a person may realize that they are a type that others don't necessarily "want" them to be... and they'll go against an opinion based on what they would rather you be or not be instead of what you most likely are. Or so I feel I've seen here a bit. Kinda like if someone has a best friend of a type and a person here decides that this is their type also, if the person on the forum has a "bad opinion" (for lack of a better word) then they may kinda argue that you are not the same type as their friend is because they have some ill will toward you and not their friend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    A valid point. And building on that a bit, there will be times when a person may realize that they are a type that others don't necessarily "want" them to be... and they'll go against an opinion based on what they would rather you be or not be instead of what you most likely are. Or so I feel I've seen here a bit. Kinda like if someone has a best friend of a type and a person here decides that this is their type also, if the person on the forum has a "bad opinion" (for lack of a better word) then they may kinda argue that you are not the same type as their friend is because they have some ill will toward you and not their friend.
    We all want to be accepted.

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    UDP I agree with your sentiments but would add that the problem, in regards to this forum, isn't so much due to individuals mistyping themselves but to others here mistyping individuals with one-liner statements that bare little witness to intelligent thought. Though these may, at first, seem harmless, they nontheless fester and ferment and excrete an unholy plague of enslaving excrement that flings from the innocent's monitors to their brains infecting the majority with mass confusion in regards to even the sole most basic facets of knowledge which our future needs to build upon lest it all collapse in a rotting rink of shit bricks covered in salivating blood-sucking maggots whose motto resounds eat sleep fuck die
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    Why is it so hard to find your type?

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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii View Post
    UDP I agree with your sentiments but would add that the problem, in regards to this forum, isn't so much due to individuals mistyping themselves but to others here mistyping individuals with one-liner statements that bare little witness to intelligent thought. Though these may, at first, seem harmless, they nontheless fester and ferment and excrete an unholy plague of enslaving excrement that flings from the innocent's monitors to their brains infecting the majority with mass confusion in regards to even the sole most basic facets of knowledge which our future needs to build upon lest it all collapse in a rotting rink of shit bricks covered in salivating blood-sucking maggots whose motto resounds eat sleep fuck die
    So... in other words... it is the associations such statements create about the types of others, which tend to be absorbed into the minds of the forum masses (in a subliminal sort of way), that is a key issue from your pov... leading to vast type confusion.

    A keen awareness of such patterns of assoication and how they can tip the balance of popular opinion is brought to us by the esteemed IM element , yes? Isn't this in part what creative does? Change associations? Though leading might be even better at it.

    Thus, if one is strongly aware of how associations lead to and influence others attitudes, views, moods, mindsets, etc. this is a sign of in the ego block?

    I'm simply inquiring... your post has given me a clearer notion of this aspect of Fe and I'm trying to check that I am not misleading myself. I seek confirmation or denial (either absolute or partial) of my question/statement (by you or by anyone).
    Last edited by inumbra; 02-11-2008 at 05:11 AM. Reason: has been edited 1x

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    I think typing yourself is not as easy as it seems, for several reasons:

    First of all, a lot of people have been 'programmed' to play a role and are not acting according to their true type. Especially the influence of traditional gender roles messes things up. It's like Rick DeLong said in one of his articles: if you have not had the experience of duality when growing up, it will be difficult to find your dual. Perhaps you'll adapt and learn to play a role instead of being yourself.

    Second, understanding the functions, and especially how these fit in Model A is not easy to understand. It takes time to understand the nuances of a function depending on its position in Model A. E.g. take a person that would be seen by his environment as a know-it-all. At first sight, what type are we dealing with here? With an ENTj, who does know it all and knows how to put his knowledge to good use (leading Te), or an ENFp who communicates his trivial knowledge as a means of impressing people (HA Te)?

    And finally, descriptions of the functions, which sometimes are written in such a way that they are not falsifiable. E.g. according to wikisocion:

    1. An ENFps creative function is Fi. The ENFp uses that function to connect to other people, or to distance themselves in case a threat is perceived:

    IEEs are naturally sensitive to mood, atmosphere, and feelings. They rarely say or do anything that would worsen people's feelings, preferring instead to distance themselves from people and social situations that produce negative feelings. IEEs are naturally skilled at regulating the degree of emotional intimacy between people, which can mean being businesslike (yet polite) as well as warm and inviting.


    2. An ISFp has Fe a creative function, which again is used to regulate the emotional distance to other people:

    A positive emotional atmosphere is essential to their sense of well being and inner peace, and they either try to create that atmosphere by directly influencing their surrounding, or by simply removing themselves from the situation or people that in their view is the cause of a negative emotional environment.

    3. An ENTp POLR is Fi:

    Hide their personal sentiments whenever possible to avoid public examination of their feelings.

    Now what I think, is that basically the exact same outward behavior is explained by three different manifestations in Model A. So if I'm warm and welcoming, am I Fi, Fe or Ti? All three are possible with these descritions that fall short. This creates a sort of Forer-effect in the Socionic description. This is what makes it difficult for people to decide on their type. More accurate and falsifiable descriptions are needed, and I think that is possible: a lot of stuff needs to be removed from function descriptions, and new stuff needs to be added in order to make it falsifiable. I already said Socionics is a complex theory, and the contradictions in what has been written about it actually makes matters even more complex. No wonder people have trouble finding their type.
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    I don't think the descriptions make that much of a difference. Or even profiles for that matter - even though I used them extensively in the past.

    First, this is an online forum, this is not a professional university. There are no standards here. It is all rather loose. Granted that, your best bet is to really work with things and figure out what is, for example, in your own life, in reality. Not some bunch of words on the forum. So in that way I disagree about the "vagueness" of profiles or descriptions. It is not about profiles or descriptions.

    As a matter of fact, I would almost say they get in the way just as much as they help

    The famous zen koan about the finger and the moon comes to mind - the finger is not the moon, and you don't need the finger to see the moon. The moon is the moon.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    It is not about profiles or descriptions.
    If it's not, then what is it about? Somehow we've got to agree on what the nature of each specific function is. Or do you propose that everyone make them up themselves? That's what it sound to me you're suggesting.
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    @consentingadult

    No, you're missing my point.

    "Or do you propose that everyone make them up themselves? " Of course not.

    Unless you really know what is, yourself, then throwing around descriptions and profiles is irrelevant. That is the point. The profiles can help you, but what they are really talking about is not something you can grasp from just words. You have to be able to actually recognize what it is in real life.

    And yes, how to do that here, if you are just learning online yourself, is difficult. But it is a requirement none the less. And yes, there will be instances, like one I experienced, where you may actually misinterpret what functions are in terms of how they relate to you, and thus influencing your typings.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    They're not changing their type, just what they think their type is.

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    Actually many types are very similar between each other, otherwise socionics would not make any sense. This is especially true in the temperament rings, and makes two adjacent types sharing the same accepting (in the case of introverts) or creative (in the case of extraverts) functions very similar.

    About what consentingadult said in regard to the possible similarity between hidden agenda and base function: it is something that has been analyzed extensively on the forum. I came to the conclusion that the strongest function is most easily seen in action when the person is dealing with new material in an unknown environment (this is actually a widespread method in psychology).
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I came to the conclusion that the strongest function is most easily seen in action when the person is dealing with new material in an unknown environment.
    Interesting idea. I think I agree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    UDP are you talking about yourself?
    No, I am commenting on what I see taking place on the forum.


    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Socionics is not a professional study, at least not within a professional university.

    I don't think you're particularly good at figuring out your own life and reality and that has certainly affected your understanding of socionics.
    ..... ? And you have very little to draw from when you say that. But sure, thanks for sharing your thoughts about "me".

    At the very least, I have a different view of reality then you do that that influences the differences in my understanding of socionics versus yours.
    How can you say that? You don't know my view of reality, and I sure don't know yours*. You can be commenting on this and other forum posts, but they are not what defines "my view of reality".

    * that is to say, I certainly do not feel I could honestly say I understand your view of reality at this time, because I don't know you at all. So I am wondering why you feel you can say that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Good stuff, if you study the wikisocion descriptions and behavioral descriptions elsewhere.. there is a fairly consistant ambiguity in how people are described.
    Descriptions are more entertaining than acutally teaching something.

    A strict definition of a LSE would be : someone who focuses mainly on and who perceives it mainly in the context of .

    This means : a LSE has the feeling of living in a world of , and who strives to seek on .

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    Descriptions are more entertaining than acutally teaching something.

    A strict definition of a LSE would be : someone who focuses mainly on and who perceives it mainly in the context of .
    IMO this is a very bad definition. You can't just turn type into a quantitative thing, like ESTj = a lot of Te + a little Si. The functional model is more complex than that.

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    Why do they have to figure it out ASAP? What's the rush?

    If indeed you can only be, have ever been, and will ever be only one type (the same type), then you can't really be torn or split between types. This is true. I agree.

    However, when someone says they're torn between two types, they may just mean they're confused... either about their understanding of the types themselves or about how they fit into that understanding, etc. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

    Again, why the hurry? There's no need to find one's type immediately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Why do they have to figure it out ASAP? What's the rush?

    If indeed you can only be, have ever been, and will ever be only one type (the same type), then you can't really be torn or split between types. This is true. I agree.

    However, when someone says they're torn between two types, they may just mean they're confused... either about their understanding of the types themselves or about how they fit into that understanding, etc. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

    Again, why the hurry? There's no need to find one's type immediately.
    People are complex, obviously... Yeah, people get confused about their types especially around how some descriptions are written. Like consentingadult, there are no easy lines and some statements aren't easily falsifiable. Take your time, there's no real rush to figure your type out (unless you have some Te, like me "crap i need to figure out what im good at", "if i don't figure it out I could waste time doing something i don't know i hate yet" ... etc)
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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    There is a world of difference between every type.
    There is a world of difference between theoretical types, yes. But between actual people? Not so much. We are all more alike than we are different. The dichotomies you point to - Fe v. Fi, Victim v. Infantile, etc. - these are all just (vague and most often ill-defined) concepts that can be difficult to apply to real life circumstances. The vast expanse of debate - not only on this forum, but among Socionists themselves - trying to differentiate between these allegedly "obvious" variations of temperament and attitude, should be proof enough of that.

    All that said, I think people rush too fast into pidgeonholing themselves into a type, before they really know enough of: 1.) the structure of the theory itself, 2.) it's lexicon, and 3.) real-life correlates with the terminology of that lexicon. I'd much rather see people remain "typeless" for a while before picking out a type prematurely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    There is a world of difference between theoretical types, yes. But between actual people? Not so much. We are all more alike than we are different. The dichotomies you point to - Fe v. Fi, Victim v. Infantile, etc. - these are all just (vague and most often ill-defined) concepts that can be difficult to apply to real life circumstances. The vast expanse of debate - not only on this forum, but among Socionists themselves - trying to differentiate between these allegedly "obvious" variations of temperament and attitude, should be proof enough of that.
    Yes, but that's not my point. The dichotomies are real, inside of socionics theory. It doesn't matter how ill defined they are. Forget their names, "infantile" or "victim", and just look at what they mean. You either are Si or Ni, and not both. There is no vagueness in that reality. You are not partially Si in ego and partially ni, no. You are not somewhat Fi and somewhat Fe valuing - it just doesn't work that way. And I wonder if people get that about socionics.

    All that said, I think people rush too fast into pidgeonholing themselves into a type, before they really know enough of: 1.) the structure of the theory itself, 2.) it's lexicon, and 3.) real-life correlates with the terminology of that lexicon. I'd much rather see people remain "typeless" for a while before picking out a type prematurely.
    Sounds good to me. I'm all for that.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    ...You either are Si or Ni, and not both. There is no vagueness in that reality. You are not partially Si in ego and partially Ni, no. You are not somewhat Fi and somewhat Fe valuing - it just doesn't work that way. And I wonder if people get that about socionics.
    I think most people do get that. If you're going to apply yourself to the theory then it's either one or the other... there is no in between. I think the vagueness comes into play because individual people are more complex than the theory. Why do you think people do not understand this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I think most people do get that. If you're going to apply yourself to the theory then it's either one or the other... there is no in between. I think the vagueness comes into play because individual people are more complex than the theory. Why do you think people do not understand this?
    Because people love categories and can't accept the fact that the world doens't strictly conform to their little lists.
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    UDP, you're dead wrong. There is such a thing as an EJ-Te that has no strong preference for Ni or Si (again, at every moment in time there is always a preference for one or the other, but I think that types are analyzed over a continuum).

    I think you haven't gone sufficiently in-depth in your knowledge of socionics, this is why you think types are such clear-cut entities.

    Baby: the dual-comparison works perfectly when deciding between quasi-identicals for example (and also searching for the renin dichotomies uncommon between the two quasis), but it doesn't work that well when dealing with look-a-likes of adjacent subtypes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    UDP, you're dead wrong. There is such a thing as an EJ-Te that has no strong preference for Ni or Si (again, at every moment in time there is always a preference for one or the other, but I think that types are analyzed over a continuum).
    Really?
    Then what is it?
    What type is it?
    It doesn't have a quadra, or not quadra values.
    You make it sound like there is just pure Te, when functions are always blocked and paired - Te with Si, or Te with Ni. And so on and so forth.

    - Yes, I understand what you are getting at, in relation to what you say below. But do you understand why I am stressing that entities are "clear cut" ?

    I think you haven't gone sufficiently in-depth in your knowledge of socionics, this is why you think types are such clear-cut entities.
    I think you are not understanding why I am bringing these things up.
    Do you understand why I am saying what I am saying?



    PS: Eh, I'm not sure this is really going to lead anywheres. I'll come back later to see if I can sort things out, but, we'll see.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

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    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    There is such a thing as an EJ-Te that has no strong preference for Ni or Si (again, at every moment in time there is always a preference for one or the other, but I think that types are analyzed over a continuum).
    This is what I have been thinking for a very long time, and I haven't seen anyone state it so explicitly until now...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    You don't even need to answer these questions in a post. My point is, I think you're taking for granted a whole lot of things when those assumptions simply can't be counted on.
    Then why bother with the theory at all?


    What I'm getting at is, for practical purposes - as in, actually using the theory - there are the differentiation of the functions. There are extrapolations and theories based off the order of the functions. The theory has 16 types and 8 functions. That's just how it is. You can question the functions all you want, but as far as actually using it goes, you have to accept that they are differences.

    Yeah, everyone values all the functions. Yeah, people are very similar - but that is not the point. It's like you are looking at the theory, outside, from the perspective is reality. There is nothing wrong with that of course. What I am stressing in this thread is that you have to look at reality from the perspective of the theory, too. In other words, you actually have to "get inside the head of the theory", and understand what it is like to view things via the lens of socionics.

    I hope that makes sense.

    The title of this thread is "My problem with....". Why is it a problem to you, if your goal is just to address the process and generate discussion?
    Because I'm a negativist
    Seriously, I wanted to take an opportunity to express my "grievances" with some things I am seeing, and see what people have to say in response - thus "my problem with...". Don't worry about it too much. And maybe we're going on a tangent, I really don't know.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    Because I'm a negativist
    Seriously, I wanted to take an opportunity to express my "grievances" with some things I am seeing, and see what people have to say in response - thus "my problem with...". Don't worry about it too much. And maybe we're going on a tangent, I really don't know.
    Got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, perhaps??
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    UDP, seriously...wtf? Do I have to remind you of your writings when you thought you were INTj for a quite a long time. Glorifying ESFjs and quoting parts of INTj descriptions in your sig. Or those times when you were wondering if you are ISTj instead. Now you are ESTj? If someone can be so sure of being INTj, wondering about being ISTj and finally switching to ESTj then I can't see how that person can complain about "how people change types". Get real will you? People live and learn and eventually settle at something. I totally CAN'T see where you are coming from. If you ever end up changing your type AGAIN I will keep quoting this crap for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    Look - you have to realize that no matter how many types you've considered, or how many times you've changed your considerations, that you have been and always will be the same type.

    It is completely ludicrous how people keep flipping back and forth - who are you fooling? Are you really just not sure? I mean, in your mind, is what you are doing appearing reasonable? "Oh yeah, I changed my type again...".

    I am not sure if I am addressing this with enough lucidity, but, do you understand what I am getting at?


    There is a world of difference between every type. You are not "torn" between two types, the misunderstanding is in your own head. You are clearly and fully one type. It is your job (or it ought to be) to figure out what that type is, by being honest with yourself. It isn't about "oh, I relate to parts of what this says, and parts of this too.... so I must be a little of both". No, no, no. It doesn't work that way.

    People seem to cling to "well it is perfectly ok if I relate to that, even though it is not in this profile!". Like it has some sort of meaning. You have to stop thinking in terms of whatever regular thought pattern you are using and look at things from a socionics, type-orientated perspective.

    (This is also why it is extremely irritating when people say certain things about my type, or comments like "Hey, you seem to be showing weak Se lately - are you sure about your type? Have you considered this?" or, "Hey, you seem to be showing strong Se lately - are you sure about your type?" I mean....... don't you understand how foolish those sorts of comments are?)



    Anyways, moving on: another thing -
    Deciding between INFp and INFj - that is a world of difference, folks! It is not "just one letter". Those to types are worlds apart. One is victim, one is infantile. Fe Fi. Beta Delta. And so on. The point here is, when you are torn between ANY two types, there is VAST difference between them. If you are going to be torn between two, at least have them be mirrors, I suppose.

    Crossing the Fe/Fi line, especially repeatedly, is completely uncalled for. And it is not just Fe/Fi, it is Fe&Ti vs Te&Fi. If you don't know if you are Fe or Fi, that is a huge problem. That is a huge problem and you have to work that out ASAP. That is definitely one of the most evident lines there is in socionics, and if you are not aware of that, then you really need to work it out and look at what is going on in how people are acting around you. Interpersonally it ought to be very clear to you which side of that line you fall on.


    Similarly, Se/Si.
    That one might be a little more difficult, but once you figure out Fe/Fi, determining which of the two quadras you fall into should become clear. (because each of the remaining quadras values either Se or Si, and not both)


    From there you should at least have a solid quadra. And from that quadra you have your temperment and other things. So, just use that plan! You absolutely should not be wandering between the quadras, especially opposing ones. If you find yourself wondering which of the opposing quadras you are in, start over, do something else, that is just foolish.
    lol @ you thinking socionics is unequivocally obvious and clear. Ti oversimplifying things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    Look - you have to realize that no matter how many types you've considered, or how many times you've changed your considerations, that you have been and always will be the same type.

    It is completely ludicrous how people keep flipping back and forth - who are you fooling? Are you really just not sure? I mean, in your mind, is what you are doing appearing reasonable? "Oh yeah, I changed my type again...".

    I am not sure if I am addressing this with enough lucidity, but, do you understand what I am getting at?


    There is a world of difference between every type. You are not "torn" between two types, the misunderstanding is in your own head. You are clearly and fully one type. It is your job (or it ought to be) to figure out what that type is, by being honest with yourself. It isn't about "oh, I relate to parts of what this says, and parts of this too.... so I must be a little of both". No, no, no. It doesn't work that way.

    People seem to cling to "well it is perfectly ok if I relate to that, even though it is not in this profile!". Like it has some sort of meaning. You have to stop thinking in terms of whatever regular thought pattern you are using and look at things from a socionics, type-orientated perspective.

    (This is also why it is extremely irritating when people say certain things about my type, or comments like "Hey, you seem to be showing weak Se lately - are you sure about your type? Have you considered this?" or, "Hey, you seem to be showing strong Se lately - are you sure about your type?" I mean....... don't you understand how foolish those sorts of comments are?)



    Anyways, moving on: another thing -
    Deciding between INFp and INFj - that is a world of difference, folks! It is not "just one letter". Those to types are worlds apart. One is victim, one is infantile. Fe Fi. Beta Delta. And so on. The point here is, when you are torn between ANY two types, there is VAST difference between them. If you are going to be torn between two, at least have them be mirrors, I suppose.

    Crossing the Fe/Fi line, especially repeatedly, is completely uncalled for. And it is not just Fe/Fi, it is Fe&Ti vs Te&Fi. If you don't know if you are Fe or Fi, that is a huge problem. That is a huge problem and you have to work that out ASAP. That is definitely one of the most evident lines there is in socionics, and if you are not aware of that, then you really need to work it out and look at what is going on in how people are acting around you. Interpersonally it ought to be very clear to you which side of that line you fall on.


    Similarly, Se/Si.
    That one might be a little more difficult, but once you figure out Fe/Fi, determining which of the two quadras you fall into should become clear. (because each of the remaining quadras values either Se or Si, and not both)


    From there you should at least have a solid quadra. And from that quadra you have your temperment and other things. So, just use that plan! You absolutely should not be wandering between the quadras, especially opposing ones. If you find yourself wondering which of the opposing quadras you are in, start over, do something else, that is just foolish.
    So what are you? LII or LSE?

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    UDP, I genuinely think you rely on others for affirmation. I think you make a decision then expect others to affirm said decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    UDP, I genuinely think you rely on others for affirmation. I think you make a decision then expect others to affirm said decision.
    Don't you realize how much your argument and interpretation of things flip flops? Not that long ago, I was the stubborn, egocentric thinker who didn't listen to anyone.

    Blah blah blah.

    You're totally clueless by the way. You're actually pretty full of it. If that was true, I would be torn between INTj ISTj and INFj, and really thinking about INFj now, because you or whoever else brought it up.

    If your assertion had any ounce of reality, I would NEVER have made the highly controversial (apparently) claim that I am LSE.

    What seems to get me into trouble and cause conflict on the forum here is when I don't really put a lot of effort into catering to what other people think, honestly.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

  34. #34
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    Shall we just close this thread, take our meager learnings, and go about our daily business now?
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    Don't you realize how much your argument and interpretation of things flip flops? Not that long ago, I was the stubborn, egocentric thinker who didn't listen to anyone.

    Blah blah blah.

    You're totally clueless by the way. You're actually pretty full of it. If that was true, I would be torn between INTj ISTj and INFj, and really thinking about INFj now, because you or whoever else brought it up.

    If your assertion had any ounce of reality, I would NEVER have made the highly controversial (apparently) claim that I am LSE.

    What seems to get me into trouble and cause conflict on the forum here is when I don't really put a lot of effort into catering to what other people think, honestly.
    Just brainstorming.

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    You're actually pretty full of it.
    Thank you for stating the obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    I was the stubborn, egocentric thinker who didn't listen to anyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    I don't really put a lot of effort into catering to what other people think, honestly.
    So nothing's really changed then.

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    It's funny how the rest of you came to the same interpretation of what he said, yet he says it's "wrong, wrong wrong".
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Hey UPD did you mean to phrase it that way? I hope you're not referring to me specifically.... ouch.
    If anything he was referring to me... INFp/INFj, opposing quadras, etc etc... but I don't think he was referring to anyone specifically

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Hey UPD did you mean to phrase it that way? I hope you're not referring to me specifically.... ouch.

    But UPD, you've changed your type many times. I don't think you should deny other people the right to explore for themselves. So what if they're wrong. Maybe their new knowledge will set them on the right path. I know what you mean by being annoyed when people change their types like every week or something. But I think most of the people here are honestly trying to figure out their type, not intentionally seeking attention.
    No, it is not about you. I realized that after I posted it - that it sounds like I was implying you, but it is not.

    As for the second paragraph, I am not denying other people the right to explore themselves. I said so earlier. My point is, and fair enough if people don't like to hear it, that I was offering some criticism of the process people are going through in general.

    It was more a rant thread. I suppose if I really cared enough, I would actually meet one on one with certain people, and work with them to figure out their type, instead of just listing my complaints and people taking it personally. Hm. I'm sure this thread is very convincing, in that people are flooding my pm box now with request for my expertise, right. But still, I suppose that would be more effective.

    Another thing to take away from this is that if you just post when you are angry, it seems that people will react more to the anger. I'll try to keep that in mind.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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