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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    Default Stardust

    I know it may get tiring what with all the 'type these characters from such-and-such a movie' threads, but I was wondering if anyone had seen this film and had any opinions on the characters. I'm inclined to see it as embodying the Alpha quadra. One point which may not be so persuasive is that my INTj brother absolutely loved it.

    This leads me to conjecture, on such a flimsy basis I am aware, that he saw in the main character something within himself or that at least spoke to him (for example, the tale of an INTj growing into a hero, or something in the hero/heroine relationship that touched upon his own heart). Of course, that's assuming that my typing abilities are up to par, so that's why I'm putting the question to you all.

    Anyway, what do you think, you who have an inkling of the movie? If you haven't, check it out!

    As for my reasonings about this all, I guess I would say that I perceived a preference for Fe over Fi, yet remarkably Si > Se. Without attempting to spoil the movie for those who haven't seen it, the final blow seemed to me to be very FeSi. I'd hazard to say that Tristan is an INTj and Yvane (sp?) to be an ESFj. Victoria ENFj, Captain Shakespeare ISFp, Humphrey hmm, Gamma?

    The video might be so illuminating, but great song for it!
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    I will qualify my remarks by saying that I've been imbibing the Seagram's Seven and lettin' loose on the . Still, I think there's something to the nonsense I'm spouting.

    And why do I like that song so much?
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    Shazaam's Avatar
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    I LOVED Stardust.

    It was so campy but in the good way. Camp is nice when it's done right.

    But sometimes though, the music like totally replaced the action. I wanted it to have like more oomphiness to it. And the gay jokes about the Pirate were cool, but they just like....went totally overboard. I get they were trying to be funny. But it was just like....weird, and I looked around and I was like. "Oh great. Now I have to fucking stab a straight guy in the throat to over-compensate for this womanly, inane, non-gay man crap."

    He was being so cute, and even a little hot when he actually acted like a fucking human being (the pirate) then they had to go and turn him into a fucking ....thing? Pure BS.

    As for types of characters, I have no idea. Tristan is a bit like me though.

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    That could be a lot of things, though they certainly aimed towards making it as blatant as possible. Could just be a thinker trying to play a feeling part (assuming it was an ISTp attempting to fill an ISFp role), but when you assume you make an ass out of u and me.
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    double post (my bad)
    Last edited by Kristiina; 01-28-2008 at 12:00 PM.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
    New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/

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    I've seen the movie and typed the characters, my husband has also seen it and he typed the characters the same way. The star herself is ENFj and Tristan can very possibly be ISTj. The girl keeps whining about everything and uses it to create a conversation. I don't really like people like that because it reminds me of myself. My husband said that the girl was very charming and that she had a lot of character. The boy keeps joking around, totally unaffected by the whining. My INFj friends liked the movie but they were saying really bad things about the dialogue. The moments that were about Tristan and the star getting to know each other, just talking there, these felt very distant and awkward to the INFjs.

    I do agree that Tristan behaves very INTj at first. Very non-violent. But his interaction with the rest of the world is very ISTj. I'd have to see the movie again to be more sure, but right now I'd say ISTj>INTj.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
    New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/

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    Logos's Avatar
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    I need to pick this movie up. I went to see this movie three times with my friends when it came out. I will need time to assess their types. Are there any additional or changed thoughts on their types since this thread?
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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    I'll have to watch it again and get back to you. Not that I'm a star at socionics now, but looking back I'm slightly less retarded these days.

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    I LOVE LOVE LOVE Stardust. A very IEI movie. Beta-style humor, and romance/adventure.

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    Gone. theMime.'s Avatar
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    Funny, I just saw this movie for the first time yesterday.
    My INTj dad enjoyed it.
    I think Captain Shakespeare might be ISFp.

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    OMG I lovelovelovelove that song. It's amazing. I don't know any of the types.......BUT THAT'S BESIDES THE POINT. THANKS FOR MAKING THIS THREAD SO I CAN LISTEN TO THE SONG YOU FREAKING GENIUS.

    Btw, I think Tristan is cutely nerdy....he's better after his stylish haircut though.
    As sad as it sounds, I've been replaying that youtube vid for the past 20 mins just to hear it.

    And yes, I figured that was his Si HA getting served up by the ISFp!
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    That "time + Ni" dealio is a bit horseshit tbh.

    In fact, time travel in a less metaphoric symbolic sense is more likely an Si thing.

    Id have to watch the movia again though, but I remember enjoying it.

    *edit: Actually what you describe is an Fe thing. The internal journies or "paths" of the characters. Maybe as a group you could glean an Ni context...
    The end is nigh

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    yeah in my edit I sort of agreed with you.

    You are correct though and I rethought it.
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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Ah, OK! I misunderstood your edit, thinking you meant it was more of a Fe thing.

    Munenori, does that make you Beta?


    Nah, I don't think so. I can see some of the beta interpretations of the film, but I need to watch it again, mostly because I liked the movie a whole hell of a lot. Also, I think Logos' Princess Bride comparison is interesting, since that's a lot of the reason I liked it in the first place (the light hearted fantasy aspect + love story). My original typing of everything had more to do with me thinking I was delta and seeing a sort of Fe I could appreciate but not totally identify with. Plus I liked it and I sure as hell wasn't going to put it in my opposite quadra!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Time travel?? There is no time travel in the film, so I think you must have misunderstood me.

    I talked about the CONNECTIONS - in space and in time. There are GREAT time lines in the story, and loads of "coincidences" that of course are not coincidences, connecting people and events in time and in space. That is so totally a Ni way of experiencing the world, and what I do all the time, and I can't think of a better movie to explain NiFe (at the moment). It is close to a perfect description of a Ni-web.

    As for Si, I'm sure many people confuse Si and Ni. Also, imo the movie is Beta , and that means the Ni comes with Fe... It's the Beta-Ni I describe above.
    I'm not sure if I buy that argument. The problem is that Stardust is much in the same manner of travel, distance, and connections as the Princess Bride, which is not a Beta movie. So making an argument via the number of non-coincidental coincidences seems rather half-hearted. I can buy that the novella Stardust is Beta, but those who adapted it to film, (and with Gaiman's permission) altered the story to consciously make it more like Princess Bride and with more comical light-hearted moments thrown in. When one further looks into the the effect that the actors' types have on the types of the characters, this shift becomes even more obvious.
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    I don't like that about alpha Fe...
    The end is nigh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Comical light-hearted moments are not Beta, is that your argument?
    No.

    Not sure I have understood what you are objecting against, other than that you seem to disagree with the Ni I see in the story?
    I am objecting to your interpretations of what constitutes Ni in a movie. The presence of connections in space and time between characters is so frequent across stories regardless of quadra, that it seems a rather tough claim to make that it is primarily Beta.

    Do you think the story is Alpha? And if you do, what do you think the types of the characters are? IMO, most of them are Beta or Beta-ish, but I'm curious about what you see? Maybe we all see what we "want" in the film? It is a very fairytale-like story, and I think many people can relate to the film because of that fact alone. Regardless of functions.
    Could you give examples of these moments you think are not Beta, and why?
    As I said, I did not plan on giving serious thoughts on the matter until I have had the opportunity to approach the movie from a Socionics perspective. Much like Munenori, the friends of mine that seemed to enjoy this movie most came from either Alpha or Delta quadra.

    That being said, I find the Fe in the film far too "emotional" to be the typical Alpha "I'll make things sweet and comfortable for you"-kind-of-Fe. (Example - the star is very moody in a rather Beta NF way, imo.)
    Honestly, the film did not seem that emotional in the way that associate with Beta Fe. It was more subdued, softened and rounded around the edges.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Fair enough.
    I will say that the primary reason that I played necromancer to this thread was due to Munemori's initial Alpha assessment of the movie and the Alphas in Fiction project I want to build upon.
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    I do not think that you can narrow a film down to a single type, so calling this an IEI film is certainly a stretch of credibility and definitely something of an over-analysis, with its fair share of problems which I will not bother to go into. The most you can hope for is to narrow the film down to a quadra's set of valued elements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post

    The story is clearly introverted. As Jung said, extroverts cannot experience their unconscious DIRECTLY, and need to project their unconscious archetypes onto external objects to experience it!! That is interesting, as for an extrovert the "Stardust" film probably only works as a "fairy tale", while for introverts the story becomes a picture of a quest into Tristan's unconscious. When he crosses the wall, he understands what true love is, and he finds him self and the meaning of his life - he becomes the ruler of his unconscious and rules it with his Anima (his soul) - the Star. This is a very clear picture for me, and probably for most IEIs, while Jung says this can only be "sensed" by extroverts" and thus the fairytale becomes more of a picture than a reality. (Yes, I see my inner world as just as real as the "real" world).

    This is not only introverted, but a very Ni way of seeing things, I think. Anyways, intuition should be fairly clear, and I've already explained how I see introverted intuition, so I'll not repeat it here.

    Ethics > Logics should be fairly clear as well, since it's all about relations and connections between people.

    Irrationality should also be clear. The heros are more or less just walking about, with no clear path, they follow the flow and accept their challenges and happenings as they come. Also the ways the heros chose to do things, the acceptance of circumstances, but still never giving in to them, the romantic thoughts, the acceptance of all people as they are, even if they are "weird" - all of it very irrational and typical of IEIs.

    I guess that typing a film like this is not really correct, and a good film will contain things that all people can enjoy. But also when we look at functions, I think
    • Se>Si should be clear: power battles, hierarchy, idealism, fight for the good cause, never afraid of seeking the hard challenges on the way to "truth", getting what you want, knowing what you want, fight for your ways, etc. I don't see Si at all, except maybe in the outer world, where he lives a more "relaxed" life.


    • Ni : spirituality, immortality, time loops, intuitive connections between everybody and everything, a reason behind it all (it all happens for a cause - to integrate Tristan's outer and inner, in a way), synchronicity


    • Fe/Ti: I guess we all agree on the Fe/Ti>Fi/Te aspect of the film.


    The story is also aristocratic all along. Again this points to Beta >Alpha. I'm pretty sure you'll agree to the aristocratic opinion?

    Some more Jungian connections:
    1. Tristan is half human (his father), half from the land behind the wall (his mother). This is a perfect picture of how humans are half conscious beings, half unconscious beings. (This is definitely a very introverted way of seing things. It is also a fairytale way of explaining the unconscious, known to both extroverts and introverts as a traditional way of showing unconscious happenings. I see all the things happening behind the wall as Tristans quest to understand his unconscious.)
    2. Tristan is in love with a woman in the real world, and wants to bring back a star to show how much he cares about her. The thing is, he's not really in love with this woman, but with the Anima image he has projected onto her - the "perfect woman" - and behind the wall he realises that real love is not about "perfection". (So his unconscious shows him real love)
    3. He fights inner demons and complexes from outside that tells him how he SHOULD live his life, but finally finds HIS way, and lives it regardless of the dangers it puts him in, and at the end he becomes the ruler of his unconsciuos.

    These Jungian/fairytale elements in the film will automatically make it relevant and likeable for ALL quadras, I think, so even if the story and the characters on a superficial level are Beta, the message is universal.
    I really enjoyed this movie and have seen it quite a few times. It may well be IEI, but the reasons are not that convincing.

    With the Se/Si arguement, if anything the film seems to mock that. Tristan seems an unwitting participant in all this. Seems rather Si quadra if anything, he just happens to get involved in all this, and because he is not actually striving for power ends up with it unlike the witches and princes.

    The Ni connections, not sure what you mean about his inner and outer meeting. All I know is that it feels almost like Jim and Pam from the office, where what you think you want turns out not be what you "need".

    And the irrationality, they have a clear path set out from the beginning, and that is to get the star across the wall. Just because obstacles arise doesn't mean irrational. How exactly would you expect a rational to react? And in any case, this is a story and so it needs to captivate the audience, hence the obstacles.

    And not once in the film did I see tristan fight inner demons. This film seems to be entirely about self-realisation, and probably works on underdog appeal, reducing an element of type specificity.
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