^Precisely.I literally agree with every single thing you wrote above.
^Precisely.
2-subtype system: IEI-Fe
8-subtype system: D-IEI-Fe
16-subtype system: IEI-ESE
IEI-Fe 2w3 > p6w5 > 8w7 sx/so
"He who has felt the deepest grief is best able to experience supreme happiness. We must have felt what it is to die, that we may appreciate the enjoyments of living." - Edmond Dantes (The Count of Monte Cristo, Alexandre Dumas père)
Originally Posted by MegaDoomer
I agree with this set of typings. I would've said ILI for Sheldon, but ILE is probably more likely.Thanks.I didn't see your post Traveler - yes, those are the correct typings.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
@OctopusLove, thanks for saving me the trouble of responding.yeah, I agree with pretty much everything outlined in your last post; though I'd like to expand a little on this one thing:
This is absolutely correct; though with the small caveat that 1) Fi-superegos and superids have issues evaluating their closeness to other people (leading to paranoia in the former, excessive trusting in the latter), and 2) Fi-superegos (Beta STs in particular) don't act on negative feelings about other people, if it's seen as detrimental to their goals. Other than that -- nobody doesn't have feelings about/seek closeness with other people. That's retarded.I think everyone seeks out emotional connection (see e.g. the forum's universal obsession with duality). It's human nature.
What do these signs mean—,
, etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason,
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function(extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
I've just seen two more episodes, I'm now certain that Sheldon is an Infantile. ILE>LII.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
If Sheldon is Alpha NT, he'd be a ridiculously rigid LII-Ti.
Sheldon is the most unadaptable person ever.
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
It isn't type related the fact that he's rigid and unadaptable. He's a hardcore OCD ILE, overall most of his behavior shows that he's irrational despite the rigidity.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
Damn right it is.
In essence, Ni (especially Ne-leading) is fundamentally defined by a taste for novelty, experience, openness -- all of which not only imply adaptability to new developments, but bloody active seeking of them. Sheldon does neither.Ne is generally associated with the ability to recognize possibilities, create new opportunities and new beginnings, recognize talent and natural propensities in others, reconcile differing perspectives and viewpoints, rapidly generate ideas, and be led by one's intellectual curiosity and stimulate curiosity in others.
Types that value Ne prefer to try out an opportunity rather than consider all possible ways in which it could not work out. They pick a few options and stick with them, in contrast to introverted intuition (Ni) types who pick one option and continue to doubt that option.
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
I could see LII as the only other type for Sheldon, but then that would result in having to change Penny and Leonard's type.Damn right it is.
In essence, Ni (especially Ne-leading) is fundamentally defined by a taste for novelty, experience, openness -- all of which not only imply adaptability to new developments, but bloody active seeking of them. Sheldon does neither.Ne is generally associated with the ability to recognize possibilities, create new opportunities and new beginnings, recognize talent and natural propensities in others, reconcile differing perspectives and viewpoints, rapidly generate ideas, and be led by one's intellectual curiosity and stimulate curiosity in others.
Types that value Ne prefer to try out an opportunity rather than consider all possible ways in which it could not work out. They pick a few options and stick with them, in contrast to introverted intuition (Ni) types who pick one option and continue to doubt that option.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
Except that what I just quoted makes Ne-ego rather less than likely. For Sheldon to be LII he'd have to be the most anal-retentive LII in the world, thus atypical, thus probably not "the only type that fits."
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
You can't go by quotes and take them literally. The reason Sheldon is so anal-retentive has little do with his personality type, socionics doesn't explain everything. What type or types do you see him as?Except that what I just quoted makes Ne-ego rather less than likely. For Sheldon to be LII he'd have to be the most anal-retentive LII in the world, thus atypical, thus probably not "the only type that fits."
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
Oh, but I should -- type doesn't exist outside of them, as Socionics type is essentially the closest fit within the actual human psyche to Augusta's bogus model of it.
Beta ST.
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
Beta ST really? For some reason I just can't picture an SLE or LSI doing have the things he does. Sure Sheldon is bossy and controlling, which would fit in with Beta ST. However, a lot of his nerdy behaviour would point to ILE imo. Just look at the way he dresses, his video game hobby, and movie preferences. He's also very interested in things that aren't in the real world, but rather exist in theory, which is something I don't think an SLE or LSI would care for.Oh, but I should -- type doesn't exist outside of them, as Socionics type is essentially the closest fit within the actual human psyche to Augusta's bogus model of it.
Beta ST.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
No way is he a sensor!!!!
He's so paranoid about his health and unaware of his body, weak Si FTW!
THIS proves that Sheldon is not an ILE....
+ you're all too hung up on the fact that they are scientists, when they're actually like all other sit com characters only that they've been nerdified...
Last edited by plotter; 08-03-2011 at 11:46 PM. Reason: add some stuff
I'd say LII would fit him better for sure if using the merry/series dichotomy. I've been thinking of this possibility of these typings:I agree with Sheldon as LII or ILE.
From the "merry/serious dichotomy" thread, because I think these were great descriptions:
vs.
I can see both of these in a way demonstrated by his character, although Sheldon to me comes off as more "blatantly serious" as opposed to seeking it out or wanting to be seen in that way. The over exaggeration of his character's tendencies for comedic effect makes it a bit more difficult to sort out his type.
Penny: SEE
Leonard: ILI
Sheldon: LII
Raj: IEE
Howard: SLI
Last edited by Raver; 08-03-2011 at 11:58 PM.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
Whiny nasal drip slimy mopeass mofo Leonard is not my Dual!be right back, gotta vomit until blood comes out...
Now I'm pretty much forced to type a fictional character, aarrgg, though beyond that, things are hazy, in large part due to what's between the parentheses...
p . . . a . . . n . . . d . . . o . . . r . . . a
trad metalz | (more coming)
Do you agree with the typings of LII for Leonard, ESE for Penny and ILE for Sheldon?Whiny nasal drip slimy mopeass mofo Leonard is not my Dual!
Now I'm pretty much forced to type a fictional character, aarrgg
Last edited by Raver; 08-03-2011 at 11:59 PM.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
I like Penny as ESE, I've got Leonard as ILE (I don't think the character matches the actor, something's throwing me here), and Sheldon's gotta be Ti-LII; the IJ-as-hell temperament, the overwhelming Alpha vibes, his fussiness over his chair and surroundings, Infantile being absolutely obvious when Leonard and Penny babysat him more or less that one time, his butting heads with ILI Amy Farrah Fowler...Do you agree with the typings of LII for Leonard, ESE for Penny and ILE for Sheldon?Whiny nasal drip slimy mopeass mofo Leonard is not my Dual!
Now I'm pretty much forced to type a fictional character, aarrgg
I don't really agree with that description of LIIs, it applies better to ILIs in my opinion, there's a reason why they're referred to as "the Critic".
It's ok woof, there's no way Leonard's ILI! His main gripe about his mother is the lack of hugs and not celebrating his birthday, putting such a high value on outward signs of affection = Fe > Fi (As Sheldon points out, in many other ways she prepared him for success, therefore proving that she does actually care despite the lack of hugging). And he's always trying to make peace with everyone. He's "loveable geek" (Alpha NT), not "misunderstood and cynical geek" (ILI).
I don't know what it is with Leonard precisely; I like Raj a lot, Howard's got an odd mojo about him I can get down with, and Sheldon's intriguing (we'd probably drive each other nuts, I wouldn't mind much), but there's just something about Leonard that I find absolutely gross...
Alpha NTs are cute, but there's something absolutely compelling about ILIs
p . . . a . . . n . . . d . . . o . . . r . . . a
trad metalz | (more coming)
This would make sense except I can't really see Penny and Sheldon as duals as they clash a lot. Having them as activity partners would make a lot more sense. Like you'd either have to switch Sheldon to ILE and Leonard to LII or have Penny switch to SEI for all of it to make sense. I think the problem with Sheldon is that he's designed as a very eccentric character so as a result he may appear as a different type during specific moments. Also, it could be possible that the characters have little to no parallel with inter-type relations.I like Penny as ESE, I've got Leonard as ILE (I don't think the character matches the actor, something's throwing me here), and Sheldon's gotta be Ti-LII; the IJ-as-hell temperament, the overwhelming Alpha vibes, his fussiness over his chair and surroundings, Infantile being absolutely obvious when Leonard and Penny babysat him more or less that one time, his butting heads with ILI Amy Farrah Fowler...
I still think most likely that Penny is ESE, Leonard is LII, Sheldon is ILE (with tendency to appear IJ due to his extreme OCD), Raj is IEE and Howard is SLI.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
Sheldon seems INTj > ENTp. His logical dominance(socially so) could make him seem like an ExTj type
Howard might be IEI
Raj as Introverted + Serious(IxTp, IxFj)
Opinions from the thread:
Penny could be ESF, but SEE > ESE
Leonard could be IxTp, his geekiness/social awkwardness is more lowkey than the others
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
Socionics Tests Database
Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites
Fidei Defensor
Penny - ESE
Sheldon - SLE
Howard - ILE
RAJ - SxI
Leonard - INTx, lean towards LII
I'm typing based on actors
I am convinced that Penny is ESE and that Sheldon is SLE.
The end is nigh
I can see what you are saying here. This threw me a bit too.
I think the writers softened Leonards character to play off Sheldons arrogance, and to make him more likeable. I don't see him as a feeler type. The language he uses is far too logical. The very first episode is a good place to start in trying to type the characters, since this is how they start out, later it's more difficult to type them, since the arc of the story shows how they have grown as people.
In the first episode, Leonard invites Penny over for Indian food, he tries his best to be sympathetic to her saying he knows how stressful moving can be and then goes onto say... "Indian food is a natural laxative. A clean colon is one less thing to worry about" That is a very logical way of conversing. He is so awkward, holding the bag out in front of him and looking so unsure of himself. INTp's/ILI's are riddled with self doubt. He is constantly questioning himself, just like an INTp/ILI would. INTj's/LII's on the other hand, are a lot more self assured, like Sheldon.
When Penny comes over to their apartment, she starts crying over her breakup with an ex boyfriend. He is at a loss as to what to say, but feels he must say something, so he gives her a logical argument to make her feel better. It is obvious that the world of feelings is quite foreign to him.
I think the writers used the term "didn't get enough hugs as a kid" to convey how unsure of himself he is, in a way that the audience could understand. INTp's/ILI's secretly crave love and affection. They can be closet romantics.
He is also very conscientious. He has a chance to cheat on Priya, but he doesn't. INTp's/ILI's are very conscientious too. Sometimes their conscientiousness can be mistaken for sympathy.
I think the casual way he dresses is very much in line with an INTp/ILI also. Although his room is always spotless, which I wouldn't expect from an INTp, but I have a feeling, since it's a TV show, this little detail was overlooked. His mother seems INTj/LII, so maybe she drilled order into him? Who's to say.
I know that Chuck Lorre, the creator of the show, studied Jung. He may have based the character of Leonard on the mbti INTP. He fits better with that description, than the Socionics "Critic" Socionics is still so new in the west it's hard to say. I hope he has heard of it. I'd love to meet him and pick his brain.
Penny.
I typed her as ESFp/SEE.
She described herself as sensitive, and she is quite warm, and often corrects the ethical mistakes of the others. Also, she starts crying about her breakup within minutes of meeting Leonard and Sheldon.
Her emotions are made very clear, so I would say she is definitely a feeler type.
She can't say I love you to Leonard and breaks up with him because of it. This could be interpreted as her being a thinker, but it's common for ESFp's/SEE's to back away when things get serious. Life for them is all about fun, and Penny is a fun time girl at heart.
She is very spontaneous. She doesn't understand Sheldon's need for order and being so particular about everything. She likes to go with the flow. If she was an ESFj/ESE, she would have a need for order also, and would understand Sheldon a bit better. I think her spontaneous nature points to her being an irrational type. Monica from friends was an ESFj/ESE. Penny is no Monica.
Someone mentioned that her room being messy doesn't prove she is irrational, and that is very true, but it does give us a clue. There was absolutely no order to her apartment whatsoever. So much so, that Sheldon felt the need to break in and sort it out.
Someone also said that she took care of Sheldon when he was sick. Yes she did. But did you notice the look of frustration on her face when she had to rub vics vapo rub on his chest and sing soft kitty to him? She didn't enjoy it like an ESFj/ESE would have. She ran out of the apartment the first chance she got.
Her car is not in the shape I would expect from an ESFj/ESE either. Sheldon points out all the things that are wrong with it, and she merely shrugs and says it doesn't matter. An ESFj/ESE would be a bit more on top of things than that.
There is conflict between her and Sheldon. Nearly every time he opens his mouth to her she rolls her eyes or has a look of frustration on her face. I type Sheldon as INTj/LII. So I think they have conflict relations and her and Leonard are duals.
Sheldon.
INTj/LII.
He's an introvert. He doesn't like to meet new people. He said he has 212 friends on myspace, when Leonard says "but you've never met them," he replies "yes, that's the beauty of it."
If he was an ILE, he would be an extrovert and display extrovert tendencies. Meeting new people would be something he looked forward to. But he prefers to have a few close friends, and even then, he sometimes even ignores them.
He is very particular about everything. Everything has to be a certain way, and if it's not he gets very frustrated. He likes his life to run to a schedule. He likes to know what he will be doing and at exactly what time he will be doing it. If he plans to do something at 8p.m. and his friends foil his plan and delay him by 6 minutes, he gets very annoyed. He is clearly not an irrational type.
He is constantly talking about theories, and clearly prefers to dwell on the hypothetical over the concrete. He even invented 26 universes to make his equation fit. He is Ti. So that rules him out as a sensor.
He is self assured, just like an INTj/LII. His humour is exactly the same as all the INTj/LII's I have come across.
I'm actually quite surprised by the confusion and frankly a little annoyed. As Sheldon would probably say.
I would argue that Penny is an Introverted Ethics, rather than Extraverted Ethics valuer. Notice that most of her fall-outs with Leonard are due to him saying something she finds inappropriate. I can't remember the last time she actually tried to keep the mood up in the group for its own sake. SEE or IEE (more likely IEE as she doesn't have that same drive as an Extraverted Sensing lead, focusing on the unrealistic aspiration of becoming an actress.)
Leonard - EII his entire focus seems to be about forming and maintaining relationships (to the point of compromising most other things). Extraverted Sensing vulnerable is quite clear.
Amy - LII - oh yes!
Sheldon and Howard - ILE (shows how much ILE can vary with different MBTI types, Sheldon being INTP and Howard ENFP).
Rajesh - IEI methinks. I get that phegmatic Victim vibe from him.
Bernadette - I'm going to go with the common opinion of SEI.
You're confusing the meaning of extraversion here. We're not disputing that in some personality systems Sheldon is an introvert. However, in Socionics he comes across as very much an extravert, hence he is often the centre of attention, the one talking, the one voicing his opinions when nobody asked for them. etc. His aversion to socialising in the orthodox manner can easily tie in to Introverted Ethics vulnerability.
Writer imo is IEE. It's kinda of a Delta take on Alphas and how wierd they are.
Sheldon is ILE(definately not played by one)
Penny is ESE(actress might not be)
Leonard is LII
Howard is some sort of Delta type(IEE imo)
Bernadette is EII
Amy is ILI? LII?
Raj is SEI?
EJ's are either super out of control or super rigid, it's kinda of a maximumalist temperment.
IMO, caregivers aren't really caregivers in the way people think about them, romance styles is simply that "romance" styles, and describe interaction at a intimate distance rather than long distance. Of course some take this role beyond the household and into the public part of life but often a ESE will be a party animal Bon Vivant who's never home and has a pretty chaotic free-wheeling life of leisure.
But eventually they meet someone, and that someone needs them to stabilize and there is either some attraction or reason why the caregiver needs to give care. It could be love, a child or any number of reasons, but it happens, a bond is formed, and this reinforcing interaction creates the caregiver and infantile dynamic between the duals.
Penny has that EJ explosiveness and is constantly criticizing Sheldon's behavior without really making any remarks on his character, this is sort of whattypes do which help to moderate a lot of behavior but it's not personal.
I want to reiterate what I said before about romance styles. Don't use those to type, they're "romance" styles.
i agree w hkkmr except howard is a reuben clone (ile) and bernadette is some xxxp so id take iee or sei over eii
Reuben it is.
Sheldon: ILE!
Howard: LII
Leonard: SLI
Penny: IEE
Rajesh: SEI
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
Where is his Fe-polr?
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
I haven´t watched much of the series, but Leonard seems down-to-earth and diplomatic, as a dualized SLI.
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
Typings here are, as usual, horrendous... This seems to be largely due to an inability of the people here to recognise the four temperaments. When typing fictional characters, this is the first thing I go on.
Sheldon: LII - Introverted Logic is Ego, that is certain... everything needs to adhere to rules and structures. He is Rational... "This should not be this"... "That is incorrect"... "It should go this way" etc. Sheldon is about adhering to structure and if there isn't a structure, he quickly makes one. Se-Vulnerable? YES. Sheldon can only bully other people intellectually, when faced with something requiring willpower against something physical, he is inept... he needed Raj to drive him home because there was a big dog outside. Despite his mental strength his inadequacies are centered around a chronic lack of confidence towards the real world. His rudeness to others does not make him an xLE because this is simply unvalued, not a source of inadequacy... compare to Howard for whom this is actually painful.
Leonard: IEI - Introverted Intuition is rather clear, rather than confront a situation he adapts to it, it's why he can live with Sheldon. At the same time this is why he fits in well with the more dominant Penny. Leonard is also the one most filled with doubt and uncertainty despite his great intelligence, very different to Sheldon who pushes his certainty because of his intelligence. His Semi-Dual relationship with Penny is rather clear to see... Introverted Intuition and Extroverted Sensation are complementary... then Sheldon expresses his feelings which Penny reacts badly too... i.e. the Extraverted Ethics and Introverted Ethics clash. Despite fulfilling eachother's main needs, these two are not in a comfortable or stable relationship because of this value clash. If we look at Leonard, he is also the most focused on how the group is feeling, he is Extraverted Ethics savvy.
Penny: SEE - Irrational!!! NOT ESE. Penny is Extroverted Irrational i.e. impulsive and after experiences and the things she wants. An ESE would instead be more interested in how everyone is feeling and whether the mood felt matches what she thinks the mood SHOULD (rational) be. Instead, Penny pursues experiences and reacts to things based on her own sentiments (Introverted Ethics)... it is more apparent how she feels towards others, not how she thinks people are feeling. At the same time, Sheldon's unwavering, linear, rule based logic is a real pain in her backside.
Howard: ILE - Introverted Ethics is weak in him... he routinely upsets people like Sheldon does only for him it is awkward and painful, he hates himself for it. Can be inappropriately unenthusiastic. Flamboyant dress sense can easily be mobilising Extroverted Ethics. At the same time, pursues the interesting and 'cool'. Is undisciplined (never became a doctor). Despite striving for freedom, still tolerates the lifestyle his mother gives him because Si needs are fulfilled.
^^ That's funny, I now think that Howard is IEE and Rajesh ILE. Inconsistent writing perhaps, but I think that Howard has become a lot more sensitive and personal emotions based, almost a bit of a whiny bitch about it really.
Last edited by Jack Oliver Aaron; 12-06-2013 at 09:41 PM.
I've only watched this sporadically @ other people's homes, but here are my suggestions:
Leonard and Penny: IEI, identicals (Penny looks like she's extremely adaptive to different social settings; both seem like IP temperament/slackers who react to situations rather than cause them)
Sheldon: EIE (at least seems like an extrovert, needs to be the hero and the center of attention; he seems kind of autistic though)
Koothrappali: LII (?)
Howard: ILE (?)
I don't care what you or anyone else thinks.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha. I wouldn't talk.
Sheldon is quite clearly ILI. As an ILE myself, I find his character a bit obnoxious, I was watching the show today and was shockingly turned off of by his character. Seemed too similar to the reaction I had against many similar ILI types IRL.
For the others, my guess would be that:
Penny is ESE
Raj maybe LII
Leonard ILE/LIE
And Howard *shudders in disgust* SLE
My guess for Howard because even though they are all supposed to be scientists, and SLE isn't typically associated with that field, the way he's written to act strongly seems reminiscent of the manias of Se-Ti.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
