ENTP or ENFP?

[Gilly]

I'm in a bit of a pickle. I'm having a problem deciding whether I'm ENFP or ENTP. I test both ways equal amounts with Socionics (which I prefer), but I tested ENTP twice on MBTI in the past.

Is there anyone out there who could help me with this one?

[Joy]

Ignore MBTI.

Tell us about yourself. Make a case for both ENTp and ENFp.

[Gilly]

ENTP:
-I love to debate
-I'm very objective in making most decisions
-I'm not usually too emotional
-I can make a logical argument about nearly anything

ENFP:
-I can be really, really bubbly when I'm around people I'm comfortable with
-I'm not very restrained
-I'm a really good public speaker
-I'm not gushy, but I can overreact to negative criticism and take it too personally/let it affect me
-I don't take being made fun of very well

I'll keep updating this as I think of things.

[Joy]

Okay, let's take family and close friends out of the equation...

How comfortable are you if someone is complimenting? Do you have a hard time telling an acquaintance that you like or appreciate him or her?

[Joy]

detail2 the main difference between ENFps and ENTps would be the direction of their enthusiasm
busy_Joy toward people or ideas?
detail2 among other things
busy_Joy like what?
busy_Joy people or projects?
detail2 but regarding people ENFps will be more personnal and familial, ENTps will be more social
busy_Joy like, ENTps are good at presenting themselves while ENFps are good at connecting?
detail2 regarding projects ENFps will aim for fun, ENTps for competence, even is not admittingly
detail2 yeah
busy_Joy thanks!
detail2 ENTps are kinda show offs
detail2 subtly
busy_Joy lol
busy_Joy I think ENTps like to pull the strings quietly
busy_Joy rearrange the dynamics of a situation
detail2 they might connect, if they want to appear as the best at connecting
detail2 yeah
busy_Joy do you think ENPfs are more likely to ask "who" and ENTps "why"?
detail2 sometimes the dynamics being the head of people, the situation being themselves, and rearanging meaning turning
detail2 both will ask both
busy_Joy yeah
busy_Joy and how
detail2 but in a different manner i guess
detail2 ENTps have an inner, serious why
detail2 ENFps have an outward why
busy_Joy ENFps are more likely to think poorly of those who are mean while ENTps will think poorly of those who are stupid?
detail2 ENTps are also most likely to use words as if they were objects, claiming things like "having a why"
detail2 kinda
detail2 partly because those who are stupid sometimes can't recognize them
busy_Joy I am way too into cause and effect relationships
busy_Joy I dunno, I think I do tend to care more about conveying competence than winning approval
busy_Joy though in my mind the two go hand in hand to a large extent
detail2 i think the approval is not wanted from actual people, but from some kind of imaginary audience
detail2 sometimes actual people are along with the imaginary audience
busy_Joy hmmm
busy_Joy I care much more about reaching success as I see it than I do about reaching success as the world sees it
busy_Joy do you think ENTps are less likely to respect tradition and "authority"?
detail2 hence the imaginary audience
busy_Joy lol
busy_Joy makes sense
detail2 the translation of this into the world might be letting people know about your competence
busy_Joy for me it's reaching my goals
detail2 yeah, i was in no way saying ENTps are puppets
detail2 and yes, ENTps are less likely to respect tradition
busy_Joy I would MUCH rather be known for being at the top of my field than known for being socially popular
detail2 i don't know a single ENTp who has respect for tradition and authority
busy_Joy lol
detail2 yeah that's the kind of showoffness of ENTps
busy_Joy well I don't see why everyone is so into the idea that they should do things the way other people do them
detail2 social popularity is not sufficiently interesting
detail2 ENFj might like it better
detail2 that their anchor
busy_Joy I would rather be seen as interesting than friendly
busy_Joy and I would much rather be clever than funny
detail2 why did you want to know the differences between ENPs?
busy_Joy lol for a thread
detail2 ok
detail2 i suggest you brainstorm with an ENFp
busy_Joy would you mind if I use this conversation?
detail2 no i don't mind
busy_Joy lol but I'm posting now
busy_Joy hehe
busy_Joy okay, thanks
detail2 well ENFps can manifest themselves through replies anyway
busy_Joy indeed

[Gilly]

When someone compliments me in a sincere way, no matter who it is, I always sorta feel like I'm glowing. I get a little rush inside my arms and chest and I feel 10x as motivated to do whatever it is I'm doing.

I wouldn't say I have a hard time telling someone I appreciate them (it's not awkard as long as I'm being sincere), but I don't do it unless I feel that the person REALLY deserves to be complimented.

I'd rather be seen as competent than popular, that's for sure. I don't give two shits about popularity, as long as I have a few smart, intellectual people around me with whom I can share my ideas and my vision for the world. However, in spite of this, I'm pretty image conscious most of the time: I have pretty good fashion sense, and I like people to see me dressed in by best. I feel awkward if I go outside when I'm in something I don't like to wear or that I'm unsure of.

I'm split on the clever/funny one, though. I want people to like me and think that I'm fun to be around, but at the same time it's essential that they know that I'm smart and capable. I think people underestimate me alot, which is good in some ways, because it allows me to come out of nowhere with a solution or insight. However, I don't like it because I feel like they aren't seeing me for what I am, and therefore don't respect me as much.[/i]

[diamond]

I glow when I get compliments, too, gilligan.



Here's a question: How much do you care about people? Be honest.

[Rocky]

When someone compliments me in a sincere way, no matter who it is, I always sorta feel like I'm glowing. I get a little rush inside my arms and chest and I feel 10x as motivated to do whatever it is I'm doing.

So, you're every person ever?


And you're probably an Intuitive-logical Extravert...

[Gilly]

I'm not really sure how to answer that, so I'll try a few ways:

I definitely care about people. I find it hard to watch movies where someone is just killed outright, with a sword, gun, etc., and you actually have to watch them die. That disturbs me to no end. I can sit through it sometimes, but most of the time I just feel like it's totally wrong.

However, on a larger scale, I believe that, for a greater cause, it is sometimes necessary for life to be lost. See the "Ayn Rand" and "Books!" threads @ www.entp.org General forum if you want to see another side to that.

Another way of putting it would be that, in spite of how some people may annoy me, push my buttons, act like jerks, etc., I always do my best to see the best in them. I try to look at the good in people; I believe that everyone has good in them, but some express is more than others, some repress it, and some just downright don't show it because they're too wrapped up in themselves to appreciate others fully.

[diamond]

That sounds more enfp. How old are you, if you don't mind my asking?

[Rocky]

... do you always try to rationalize things in the most LOGICAL way?

Also, do you try to reason emotional things with logic, but logical things with emotions?

[Gilly]

Blaze: I'm 18.

Rocky: I sometimes catch myself being a little too rational in emotional situations, but usually not to the extent that I hurt someone's feelings. I'm pretty good at reading peoples' emotions, and can almost always tell when I've began to do it.

Not sure if this helps, but I've been known to be a bit blunt/insensitive/nonchalant when giving criticism, as well as, occasionally, coming off as out-and-out mean without intending to.

I hope someone can make some sense of this, because everything I say seems to contradict itself.

[Rocky]

I don't think you are contradicting yourself, I still think you're the logical type. All of your arguments/reasoning for things seems to be that of a thinking type. Feelers are very different...

[HarryBottom]

He seems more ENTP I think.

[Topaz]

You seem like ENTP to me but I can understand your confusion. When I finaly took the MBTI I came out as ENTP as well but I knew it was innacurate.
Both are similar but ENFPs are more drawn to humanities than technology, are less argumentative (especially on Ti subjects) and have lots of facial expressions. ENTPs tend to want to one-up alot and will use numbers and statistics more when speaking. What do you think?

[Gilly]

I'm MUCH more attracted to humanities (I want to be either an english or poli-sci/theory major). However, I can be pretty argumentative and stand-offish, and, when I want to be, downright cold. But then, friends always tell me I have lots of facial expressions and gestures, etc...

So what the hell am I?

I just took the www.socionics.com test and, for the second or third time in a row (last time was about a month ago), came up ENxP. This was even with my mother and a friend there to help me with the ones I was unsure of about my outward behavior.

I'm trying to think in terms of quadras here...As far as Delta goes, I get along really well with INFJs and ESTJs, but usually not so much ISTPs. And again, in Alpha, I get along wonderfully with INTJs (most of the time) and ISFPs, but never, EVER do I get along with ESFJs (at least not from my experience; they think I'm too "wierd.")

[Joy]

I'm gonna say ENFp.

[HarryBottom]

Maybe if you look at the descriptions on Rmcnew's site it'll help you out. The ENFP one really lets you inside the head of the ENFP mindframe(It surprised me). If you really connect with that you could be an ENFP pretty easy.

Does it bug you when people are too pasionate about their opinions or when someone laughs at thier own joke and nobody else is laughing?

Know any INFPs? What are your relationships like with them if so.

[discojoe]

He's ENFp.

[Topaz]

Maybe if you look at the descriptions on Rmcnew's site it'll help you out. The ENFP one really lets you inside the head of the ENFP mindframe(It surprised me). If you really connect with that you could be an ENFP pretty easy.

Hey thanks. (huh wait ... what were you surprised about? )

[Gilly]

My two oldest and best friends are both INFps. I've been friends with one of them since just about as far back as my memory reaches. The other, along with an ENFP, joined our little group in middle school, and although we've moved on and now live in different towns, we still get together whenever we can.

When an ENFP finds a group that is accepting of them they can be very funny, outspoken even brash in their comments. Sometimes they will use sweeping exaggerations to make the point and get a laugh. They love to give their opinion on any and all subject they find interesting.

This is me. Completely me.

As is this:

ENFPs hate boring, tedious office work. For some reason they often end up doing it from time to time, possibly because temp work allows them freedom to travel. Having time to do their own thing is very important and they would probably prefer time off than more money like some types.

And definitely, DEFINITELY all of this:

Friendship with ENFPs can be a problem if you need a lot of consistency. They are there, full of life and personal attention and then they might be gone for days or weeks even months without much contact. When they show up again they like to pick up right where they left off. Then as mysteriously as they came they disappear again. Usually they are either two places, at home trying to catch up on all the work they’ve avoided or with other people somewhere. They find a great deal in life fascinating. Their enthusiasm to experience it all makes them restless and independent. They know they are different from most others around them and this makes them despondent occasionally.

The thing that concerns me the most is that I'm really not a "sensitive" guy. I mean, I can be when I want to, but being a real "sweetheart" to everyone all the time is not me. In fact, sometimes, I can be a real dick. When I need to, I can kinda seperate myself emotionaly from a decision, especially if it's a situation in which I stand to have my feelings hurt.

As far as testing goes, I first took the MBTI test when I was about 13, and I came out INFP. I've taken the MBTI 3 times ince then, and have tested ENTP on all of them. However, I always kinda felt like I was manipulating the test, because it was so easy to interpret the questions.
With the www.socion.info test, I come out ENFP and ENTP, alternating just about every time. With the socionics.com test, I've come out ENxP almost every time (6 or 7 times), and ENTP once.

Here's another thing that might help. My roommate (ISTJ) and I have some problems. We get along about 80% of the time, but whenever I ask him if I can borrow something, have some of his food, etc., he just tells me that I need to be more responsible for myself, or some bullshit like that. He's probably the most selfish, self-absorbed person I know. He seems to get pleasure out of making himself feel better at the expense of others, which I, quite frankly, can't stand for. At all. The trouble is, he will only listen to straight rationale, which means that, most of the time, I can't explain to him how he's behaving inappropriately or acting like an asshole.

One more thing. I have both ENFP and ENTP friends. I have a much better time getting out and doing fun things with the ENFPs, but no way do they compare to the ENTPs when you want an intellectual discussion/argument or advice.

[diamond]

Gilligan, I relate to you a lot. I am an entp, but only over the last five years or so have I firmly established that.

When younger, I used to think I was enfp. I would test just like you: entp/enfp. Since I am female, I think I wanted to be enfp. It took me a long time to own my polr. I think if you are trying to decide between enfp and entp the thing you need to be honestly comparing is which is stronger: your relationship skills or your logical skills. If one doesn't come out on top, then the controversy really isn't between entp and enfp; it's something else.

Don't doubt the influence of gender expectations either. Men are socialized and expected to be more logical and less relationship oriented. You may be tempted to respond to social pressure around this in your answers on typology tests.

It took a lot of experiences to clearly see that I am much more t than f. Hence I was probably 35 before I could truly commit to t over f.

Also when you are younger, and spend more of your time with younger people, relationship problems don't manifest very easily. Younger people can be more open and flexible in some ways than older people; hence relationships are easier to begin and maintain when you are younger. Differences are more easily overlooked because of the commonalities that tie younger people together such as school, sports, activities, and dating. So if you are entp, you might not see relationships problems very easily right now.

Hope this helps! And good luck in finding your type; socionics is a great thing to know at a young age I think.

[Gilly]

My relationship problems stem mainly from the fact that I tend to attract somewhat emotionally dependant girls; they don't usually ask much of me in terms of money, gifts, etc., but they all seem to really have some sort of emotional instability. This is a problem for me because I can be a bit offhand sometimes, and occasionally forget dates, times, etc. I'm not negligent, per se; I just have a really, really bad memory.

[diamond]

I've heard Joy who is entp talk about stuff like that.

I think I've also heard Kim, who is enfp say things like that.

I don't have problems with that. If people are emotionally dependent, I help them but don't get overly involved or committed, so I don't experience their dependency in a negative way.

My relationship problems IRL are around offending people accidentally which sometimes results in my not getting the support I need to reach my goals. Sometimes my ego is too big which annoys people, too.

So go figure!

[Gilly]

This is all very, very confusing. I seem to split down the line in terms of traits and tendencies. Is it possible to just be ENxP?

[Topaz]

This is all very, very confusing. I seem to split down the line in terms of traits and tendencies. Is it possible to just be ENxP?

I guess youre some sort of hybrid

[Rocky]

I think you're T.

You can't be both.

[Gilly]

But why is it that the ENTPs think I'm ENFP?

[diamond]

Which entp's?

[Gilly]

Joy and Discojoe. Read up.

[Rocky]

But why is it that the ENTPs think I'm ENFP?

... and the feelers said that you were a thinker. :wink:

Maybe it's because you mentioned more of a "humanitarian" approach, which can be confused for ethics. But I think the way you argue things out and try to reason them gives the tell that you are a logical type.

[diamond]

Well, this entp says maybe your second function hasn't yet fully asserted itself and that's why you are testing enxp. How's that for an answer?

[discojoe]

I say he's ENFp.

...cuz liek.... wutevar.

[Rocky]

I say he's ENFp.

...cuz liek.... wutevar.

Being seemingly unsure in laying out logic in a clear way could just be more P. Words are more for the J types. Also, having more flexible or bendable opinions could just point to more E than I. I'd say that ENTps can be the most "wishy-washy" of all the thinking types.

I agree that he probably hasn't developed his judging funcitons much yet, which would mean that he is more just pure Ne. But the direction that he is going is that of a thinker. He debates and argues in things that ENFps don't enter into. Even coming to find his type, he his trying to rationalize it from the logical viewpoint. Also, I don't get the "genuine" feeling of the Fi types that I do from the ENFps.

[Gilly]

Sounds fair enough. I think I can accept ENTP.

Now that I think about it, I tend to connect alot more on a personal level with my ENTP friends, which could be a good indicator.

I know that the approach I take to my theories is pretty logical (my threads on entp.org for example), but that's really just my way of trying to rationalize beliefs to other people; my inspiration for developing my theories stems from a personal desire to help people. Does that make sense?

[Gilly]

^That would be me.

[Joy]

[Gilly]

Which, of course, would be me.

I hate friggin internet cookies. Meh.

[Hugo]

ENFps are excellent at identifying people's hidden motives. ENTps are crap at it.

[Joy]

ENFps are excellent at identifying people's hidden motives. ENTps are crap at it.

now now...