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Thread: ISTj Appreciation thread - post what you enjoy/admire/like/respect about them

  1. #81

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    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    ^^^^^^ That was SUCH an awesome scene. I still have chills.
    I KNOW

    Foreman is such a fucking baller. If I was in Princeton Plainsboro Teaching Hospital, I would want him as my doctor. Fucking right.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    No.
    Got a better suggestion, Mrs. Boone?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I KNOW

    Foreman is such a fucking baller. If I was in Princeton Plainsboro Teaching Hospital, I would want him as my doctor. Fucking right.
    Perhaps as my doctor, but not as my colleague who stabs me with a fucking needle to infect me with the disease he has to save his ass. Only an INFj could forgive him for that.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

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    So... what are LSIs really supposed to be like, and why are they always some sort of generals? It sounds like a rather stereotypical typing to me.

    For example, I'm reading things about Erwin Rommel...

    * Rommel was jumpy, wanted to do everything at once, then lost interest. Rommel was my superior in command in Normandy. I cannot say Rommel wasn't a good general. When successful, he was good; during reverses, he became depressed.
    o Sepp Dietrich, to Leon Goldensohn (28 February 1946)

    * He was the best leader of fast-moving troops but only up to army level. Above that level it was too much for him. Rommel was given too much responsibility. He was a good commander for a corps of army but he was too moody, too changeable. One moment he would be enthusiastic, next moment depressed.
    o Albert Kesselring, to Leon Goldensohn (4 February 1946)

    * Anybody who came under the spell of his personality turned into a real soldier. He seemed to know what the enemy were like and how they would react.
    o Theodor Werner, an officer who, during World War I, served under Rommel

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Erwin_Rommel
    Would you say that that describes an LSI? He sounds like an Irrational to me.

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    Good points, Andromeda. Fwiw, I don't think he VIs as an ISTj.

    edit: I also don't think that a capricious personality necessitates an irrational temperament in socionics. There are many other, more prominent factors that could influence such a behavior.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andromeda View Post
    Would you say that that describes an LSI? He sounds like an Irrational to me.
    I agree. And Eisenhower was Delta ST.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    I agree. And Eisenhower was Delta ST.
    Agreed. He looks like some Te-sub Delta ST.
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    acknowledged
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    No, but again, this is sort of a stereotypical typing, like "He looks like a Delta ST". I don't claim to be an expert of Eisenhower, but I could read a few quotes by him to get a sense of what he was like...

    For example, read this quote by him:

    No people on earth can be held, as a people, to be an enemy, for all humanity shares the common hunger for peace and fellowship and justice. ... No nation's security and well-being can be lastingly achieved in isolation but only in effective cooperation with fellow-nations.

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower
    Well first off, I think this quotes sounds rather F, and mostly NF. And second of all, Delta are rather isolationalist, probably mostly Delta STs. Deltas just want to leave everybody alone, and do their own things. If Se is "conquering", etc, and no Se is no conquering. No Se means not territorial, well at least in my theory. No Se means to leave everybody, the "outsiders", alone. Yet, Eisenhower here is saying that he should "reach out" to the other nations, and to shake hands, gain ties, and mutually cooperate with one another. To me, this sounds like a Beta NF.
    Last edited by Andromeda; 03-01-2009 at 04:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    FUCKIN' A

    Seagal is a bit of an idiot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andromeda View Post
    For example, I'm reading things about Erwin Rommel...



    Would you say that that describes an LSI? He sounds like an Irrational to me.
    Very good examples - I'm glad you're thinking along the same line as me. I'm reading his biography at the moment, and I think it's quite clear that he is an SLE. A bit like Zhukov's German counterpart, except a better, more influential commander (although perhaps this is slightly unfair to Zhukov; after all, ****** allowed Rommel far more freedom than Stalin did Zhukov, so perhaps Zhukov didn't get the time to shine that he deserved).

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Good points, Andromeda. Fwiw, I don't think he VIs as an ISTj.
    Interesting - when I first attempted to type him, I thought he did actually VI as an LSI.

    edit: I also don't think that a capricious personality necessitates an irrational temperament in socionics. There are many other, more prominent factors that could influence such a behavior.
    True, but in this case - and I don't want to sound like a know-it-all or something - if you read his biography, it becomes clear that the abovementioned traits are inherent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andromeda View Post
    No, but again, this is sort of a stereotypical typing, like "He looks like a Delta ST". I don't claim to be an expert of Eisenhower, but I could read a few quotes by him to get a sense of what he was like...

    For example, read this quote by him:

    Well first off, I think this quotes sounds rather F, and mostly NF. And second of all, Delta are rather isolationalists, probably mostly Delta STs. Deltas just want to leave everybody alone, and do their own things. If Se is "conquering", etc, and no Se is no conquering. No Se means not territorial, well at least in my theory. No Se means to leave everybody, the "outsiders", alone. Yet, Eisenhower here is saying that he should "reach out" to the other nations, and to shake hands, gain ties, and mutually cooperate with one another. To me, this sounds like a Beta NF.
    You've almost completely lost me.

    Why the hell is "he looks like a Delta ST" considered erroneous "stereotypical typing" but something equally as stupid such as "I think this quote sounds rather F" or "Deltas just want to leave everybody alone" considered a more reliable base for typing?

    Your usage of the word "isolationists" is another can of worms on it's own. The term isolationist was coined and popularized largely for the purpose of mischaracterizing (as well as a genuine misunderstanding of) the foreign policy positions of non-interventionist politicians, perhaps most prominently during the interwar period. There's a very negative connotation to the word isolationism. Non-interventionism (often mislabled as isolationism) was simply about the rejection of exerting military force to resolve international diplomatic disputes. It has absolutely nothing to do with retreating from or discontinuing any and all forms of interaction with the rest of the world.

    I'm hard pressed to believe that belief in non-interventionism, or even a real isolationist philosophy, would be type related anyway. The basic idea that all humans beings share an inherent desire for peace and that other countries should communicate with and help one another - which is the gist of Eisenhower's quote - is not soley regulated to nor exclusionary of one type or quadra. Nothing about that quote contradicts Delta ST or points toward Beta NF. You suggesting otherwise is pure stupidity on your part.

    In short, your "theory" is wrong and so are your embarrassing misconceptions about Se and the inclinations of Deltas.
    Last edited by duality is cringe; 03-01-2009 at 04:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andromeda View Post
    No, but again, this is sort of a stereotypical typing, like "He looks like a Delta ST". I don't claim to be an expert of Eisenhower, but I could read a few quotes by him to get a sense of what he was like...

    For example, read this quote by him:



    Well first off, I think this quotes sounds rather F, and mostly NF. And second of all, Delta are rather isolationalist, probably mostly Delta STs. Deltas just want to leave everybody alone, and do their own things. If Se is "conquering", etc, and no Se is no conquering. No Se means not territorial, well at least in my theory. No Se means to leave everybody, the "outsiders", alone. Yet, Eisenhower here is saying that he should "reach out" to the other nations, and to shake hands, gain ties, and mutually cooperate with one another. To me, this sounds like a Beta NF.
    I don't think one can attribute such a broadly-defined political sentiment to functions. For, in socionics, there is relative distribution of psychic perception. But in political science, there are tried-and-trusted methods which have been proven to work. Thus, when correlating the two fields, it is rather incorrect to assume that a political sentiment (which has been proven to be objectively efficacious over time) is correlated with a specific method of information processing (which is individual-based and not bound by external ideologies), simply because the general tendencies associated with said style of information processing share superficial similarities with the political sentiments expressed. Consequently, I think it is rather facile and pointless to make direct correlations between generalized political sentiments and functions, most of the time.


    @Ezra: I agree about SLE -- that was the type that came to mind when I image-searched him. He didn't seem grounded or controlled enough to be an ISTj; more expansive-looking or something.
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    @Deante: you have summed my thoughts up perfectly (and rather brusquely ). To digress, this is another recent incident which has led me to doubt your typing as ISTp. I continue to watch, however.

    Why the hell is "he looks like a Delta ST" considered erroneous "stereotypical typing" but something equally as stupid such as "I think this quote sounds rather F" or "Deltas just want to leave everybody alone" considered a more reliable base for typing?
    Precisely.
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  15. #95

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    Speaking of generals. Just so happens that I was reading this article:

    Generaloberst Heinz Wilhelm Guderian

    http://www.achtungpanzer.com/gen2.htm
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andromeda View Post
    So... what are LSIs really supposed to be like, and why are they always some sort of generals? It sounds like a rather stereotypical typing to me.

    For example, I'm reading things about Erwin Rommel...



    Would you say that that describes an LSI? He sounds like an Irrational to me.
    He sounds like an EIE by that description.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Well, this is going nowhere... but let me explain a bit. I'm not saying that I'm 100% right or that I know 100% about Socionics.

    Why the hell is "he looks like a Delta ST" considered erroneous "stereotypical typing" but something equally as stupid such as "I think this quote sounds rather F" or "Deltas just want to leave everybody alone" considered a more reliable base for typing?
    Well, it was my understanding that F types liked to and relied on creating and improving relationships with others to reach a certain goal. Correct me if I'm wrong? Or would you rather base typing based on appearance?

    Your usage of the word "isolationists" is another can of worms on it's own. The term isolationist was coined and popularized largely for the purpose of mischaracterizing (as well as a genuine misunderstanding of) the foreign policy positions of non-interventionist politicians, perhaps most prominently during the interwar period. There's a very negative connotation to the word isolationism. Non-interventionism (often mislabled as isolationism) was simply about the rejection of exerting military force to resolve international diplomatic disputes. It has absolutely nothing to do with retreating from or discontinuing any and all forms of interaction with the rest of the world.
    I know, I didn't mean isolationsim as non-interventionism, but rather literally closing itself from the rest of the countries and influence. An example of this would be feudal Japan's isolationist policy, the Sakoku policy, where they have closed off from most of the countries.

    I think an example of a Delta politician would be, Ron Paul (INFj).

    I'm hard pressed to believe that belief in non-interventionism, or even a real isolationist philosophy, would be type related anyway. The basic idea that all humans beings share an inherent desire for peace and that other countries should communicate with and help one another - which is the gist of Eisenhower's quote - is not soley regulated nor exclusive to one type or quadra. Nothing about that quote contradicts Delta ST or point toward Beta NF. You suggesting otherwise is pure stupidity on your part.
    Well, I don't see how it can't be type or quadra related. It was my understanding that the Delta quadra was rather closed off from the outside influence. Deltas are about non-interventionism and making everybody sure that they stay independent. Sure, perhaps most people have a desire for peace. But would you say that Delta STs go out of their ways to improve their relationships with others? Probably not. Would an F type? Yes. What about improving relations on a large, global, abstract scale? The NFs. Who do this to the point of encroaching others personal space and territory, so to speak? The Beta NFs.
    Last edited by Andromeda; 03-01-2009 at 05:37 PM.

  18. #98
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    .

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    Two epic LSIs, (at least to me personally: )

    *William S. Burroughs
    *Eddie Van Halen

    Proof that not all LSIs are generals... They are also substance-addled nutcases.

    Yoko Ono is relatively epic... in her own way... I guess.

    My gf is Se-LSI... Epic.

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    INFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    @Ezra: I agree about SLE -- that was the type that came to mind when I image-searched him. He didn't seem grounded or controlled enough to be an ISTj; more expansive-looking or something.
    He's definitely controlled, and as for grounded... depends what your definition is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    He sounds like an EIE by that description.
    I read about his later relations with ******, and I think he (SLE) and ****** (EIE) are a good contrast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andromeda View Post
    I think an example of a Delta politician would be, Ron Paul (INFj).
    Sorry, but no.

    http://www.socionics.us/

    Start there.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    ...

    Do you even know Ron Paul?

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    Never mind, all of this is quite irrelevant. And Ron Paul is a fucking INFj! I thought this was fairly obvious...

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    Welcome to socionics!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andromeda View Post
    ...

    Do you even know Ron Paul?
    No, I don't know Ron Paul, but I have seen him on TV, and he is not a fucking EII Do yourself a favor and press the reset button on your understanding of Socionics.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    No, I don't know Ron Paul, but I have seen him on TV, and he is not a fucking EII Do yourself a favor and press the reset button on your understanding of Socionics.
    Oh, good job, Gilly, you've attempted to type someone that you didn't even know. Boy, you sure are a master of this whole Socionics thing. You fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    Welcome to socionics!
    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andromeda View Post
    Oh, good job, Gilly, you've attempted to type someone that you didn't even know. Boy, you sure are a master of this whole Socionics thing. You fail.
    You know Ron Paul? Sorry, shut your mouth.

    I know who he is. I have seen him plenty of times on TV. I have heard plenty about him. He is not a fucking EII. I know an assload more about Socionics than you probably ever will, and trying to convince me that whatever minutia you might know about Ron Paul that I have somehow missed in seeing his face, reputation, speeches, and personal tidbits paraded around TV is completely useless because I can just already tell that you have no idea what you are talking about. My father is an EII, I have typed plenty others, and I know a few in real life. Ron Paul is not an EII; he is far too verbally aggressive and pompous. He is probably an EIE.

    Short version: You are wrong.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  29. #109
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    I remember seeing this set of clips a while ago, and trust me, I know what Ron Paul is all about.

    You tell me if an INFj would act like this in this environment








    I doubt very seriously that he's an INFj.
    INFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    You know Ron Paul? Sorry, shut your mouth.

    I know who he is. I have seen him plenty of times on TV. I have heard plenty about him. He is not a fucking EII. I know an assload more about Socionics than you probably ever will, and trying to convince me that whatever minutia you might know about Ron Paul that I have somehow missed in seeing his face, reputation, speeches, and personal tidbits paraded around TV is completely useless because I can just already tell that you have no idea what you are talking about. My father is an EII, I have typed plenty others, and I know a few in real life. Ron Paul is not an EII; he is far too verbally aggressive and pompous. He is probably an EIE.

    Short version: You are wrong.
    Hahaha, I was just messing with ya, but you took it too seriously. Sorry if you took it the wrong way. Anyway, what you said wasn't particularly convincing of anything, because the whole message just sounded like an elaborate ad hominem. Sorry brah.

    Quote Originally Posted by tereg View Post
    I remember seeing this set of clips a while ago, and trust me, I know what Ron Paul is all about.

    You tell me if an INFj would act like this in this environment

    YouTube - Ron Paul on Trash TV, 1988 - Pt. 1

    YouTube - Ron Paul on Trash TV, 1988 - Pt. 2

    YouTube - Ron Paul on Trash TV, 1988 - Pt. 3


    I doubt very seriously that he's an INFj.
    Well, I don't really see how an INFj can't act like that in a situation like that. Though I'm not really sure how an INFj (or anyone) would act in a situation like that. Actually, my INFj brother can act like that during heated arguments. Maybe what I could say about him in that video is that he tried to keep an indifferent poker face during the whole thing (he has very little facial expressions), even though he was agitated. Maybe that's got to do with types, maybe not, but it's kind of stupid.

    If he's not an INFj, then what would you type him as?

    Anyway, aside from his physical appearance, the reason that I thought he was an INFj was because of the consistency in his character. He is a pretty consistent guy, and he makes up his decisions based on his personal belief. Once he makes up a decision, then he usually sticks by them, and he rarely budges or diverts. He doesn't change his mind or his position very often. I think that these are all J traits. He even once accused Obama of not having any "solid beliefs". Again, I think that this is the kind of typical complaints that J types have about P types. Yet, despite all of this, he has trouble imposing his will on others. He has trouble physically asserting himself. I think that this is Se PoLR. So, from this pattern, I would say that he is an INFj...

    Politically, maybe his tendency towards libertarianism is closer to the Delta attitude. He is a staunch supporter of free-market capitalism... maybe that's more Te, but not necessarily to do with quadras or types. His "isolationist" policies, not focusing much about the rest of the world to focus more on itself and to protect itself, again Delta... Heck, Beta is the exact opposite.

    Anyway. OFF-TOPIC.

  32. #112
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    I wasn't trying to convince you of anything. I just wanted to say my piece. I think it's obvious to anyone who knows anything significant about EIIs that Ron Paul is certainly not one, and if you strongly believe that he is EII, you should probably try re-learning Socionics.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  33. #113
    Creepy-Diana

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    .

  34. #114
    tereg's Avatar
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    My opinion of Ron Paul is that he's ISFj actually. Certainly in an Fi/Te quadra.
    INFj

    9w1 sp/sx

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    ***el X Mercenary
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    <3 ron paul. that's all. I met him once when he came to WY. I very much respect his consistency and lack of wishy-washy pandering politicianness. He's genuine. That's extremely rare among politicians.
    You are so lucky.

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    Actually I think Ron Paul seems very Ti focused: consistency, especially in terms of adhering to the constitution, seems to be his MO. To be honest I'm not sure about his type, but EII seems extremely unlikely in my opinion.

    And yes, he is awesome. I wish to God he had won the republican nomination; I certainly would have voted for him over Obama.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I wouldn't call them epic, but they are hot.

    And MILFs.

    Linda Fiorentino less so, although she's not bad looking. She's probably the least pretentious of the three. Monica Bellucci is probably one of the sexiest old people I have ever encountered. And CZJ is just hot.




  38. #118

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    LSI-Se are awesome, able to do just about anything, and so sexy, feminine. Other than being envious of them, I usually love them.

    Some LSI-Ti are awesome.

    I and most people love mainly the Se subtype though, they're more popular, more beautiful, more emotionally stable, more positive, more easy going. As the Ti sub, I'm just way more internally negatively emotional, more uptight, less humorous, and far, far less impressive. Neither my Ti nor Se have ever worked well for me. And I've just very generally NOT cared much for Fe for some reason (I rely on psychological distance/like/dislike and aesthetics/sensations in relations)... I don't like a whole lot of emotion, I like people and environments to be calm (neither happy nor angry), but also beautiful and stimulating in good ways.
    I'm not only psychologically disturbed, I'm also QueeferSutherlandJeffersonianSecessionist87@sucksd ick.com


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