ESIs-ISFjs wanting control in relationships

[Dioklecian2]

It seems to me that ISFJs want some form of control in relationships, is that correct? And what type of control do they want? I have noticed this with several ISFJs thoughtout my life. Although I have dated several of them, I can't quite get the control thing. It is superficial control I believe but they get very angry if you don't respond to it.

[Mediator Kam]

I'm not sure about control in sexual relationships. My mother is ISFj, and I believe she tries to exert control on my EII father, but it doesn't seem to work on him, maybe because he is so headstrong.

But with the children, damn she exterts control over almost every facet of my life. She has my future all planned out. I'm going to college in a year and a half, so I go to college, and live at home during college, working too. Then I'm going to establish myself after college, and get married, still living very close to her. Then, I will have a happy life living 2 blocks from my parents. I've told her this is controlling, but she just looks at me and says "It's your duty to live near your parents. You are not going to move away from us, not ever!"

I don't like it, but I have no choice. I just don't like a lot of things about ISFj people, and I only know one.

[UDP]

ISFjs, mm, they are a firey bunch, in some ways.

[FDG]

Nobody can really be controlling, until they use violence. ISFjs might place expectations on you, but then you can ignore them if you feel they do not aling with what you want to do with your life.

[Elf]

But with the children, damn she exterts control over almost every facet of my life. She has my future all planned out. I'm going to college in a year and a half, so I go to college, and live at home during college, working too. Then I'm going to establish myself after college, and get married, still living very close to her. Then, I will have a happy life living 2 blocks from my parents. I've told her this is controlling, but she just looks at me and says "It's your duty to live near your parents. You are not going to move away from us, not ever!"

I don't like it, but I have no choice. I just don't like a lot of things about ISFj people, and I only know one.

Definately an unhealthy ISFj. She probably wants you to accomplish the things she didn't manage to accomplish in her life and wants something from you that she doesn't get in other relationships. Saying that "It's your duty to live near your parents" is an excuse for whats she's doing. It's bullshit. Children are neither an extension of their parents, nor their property. You always have a choice.

[Elf]

But with the children, damn she exterts control over almost every facet of my life. She has my future all planned out. I'm going to college in a year and a half, so I go to college, and live at home during college, working too. Then I'm going to establish myself after college, and get married, still living very close to her. Then, I will have a happy life living 2 blocks from my parents. I've told her this is controlling, but she just looks at me and says "It's your duty to live near your parents. You are not going to move away from us, not ever!"

I don't like it, but I have no choice. I just don't like a lot of things about ISFj people, and I only know one.

Definately an unhealthy ISFj. She probably wants you to accomplish the things she didn't manage to accomplish in her life and wants something from you that she doesn't get in other relationships. Saying that "It's your duty to live near your parents" is an excuse for whats she's doing. It's bullshit. Children are neither an extension of their parents, nor their property. You always have a choice.

[implied]

again, i would be inclined to associate an obstinate interest in a particular accomplishment with beta. and the extension thing with aristocracy. the gamma SF mothers i know don't seem to care as much as long as the career path pays the bills reliably and respectably.

yeah, i think i could only see a gamma SF becoming obstinate like that if your chosen career path was something like mafioso. i believe expat said something along the lines of beta being like, "this is what we're going to do with our lives, and i'm going to ensure that you do it." (paraphrased, of course. i can't find the particular post at the moment.)

[Elf]

I think that the behaviors expressed by Kamangir's mother are unhealthy generally and is not much type related. And I don't see how being attached too much would contradict base Fi.

[Elf]

Perhaps it’s better that I explain my views more to avoid possible future misunderstandings. I don’t interpret actions merely from a socionics perspective. Socionics doesn’t consider character and the related individual, not type related motivations. Therefore I don’t automatically try to explain particular behaviors by quadra values and functions. A unhealthy person doesn’t necessary exhibit the same traits as a healthy person does (and even healthy people of the same socionics type can have quite different motivations). Is it characteristic for a type X to have, for example, a bipolar or personality disorder ? No, it's not. That’s my point.

[Elf]

unhealthiness may not be entirely unrelated to socionics type. perhaps some unhealthiness might be explained by the weaker functions. i do not know about bipolar, but these are a few correlations between the two you can find online

Yes, I guess it's plausible, in a sense of predisposition.

attention deficit disorder and MBTI NP types (which may correlate to Se superego in Socionics)

Exactly, persons with Ep temperament and ego would have the greatest difficulties in focusing attention for a long period of time on one task. Next in the line I think would stand the INxJs.

and to an extent i approach socionics functions as just an estimation of a person rather than an exact science. i even doubt some foundations of jung, such as a person's type being constant for a lifetime.

I see all typologies simply as some of the many possible viewpoints and interpretations. The typings are indeed rather subjective, I haven't heard nothing about a way how to measure functions.

i'm just trying to match a "best-fit" to the behavior. what's been described does sound consistent with my understanding of Beta and it's not unheard of to mistake "look-alikes" (two types of a similar creative function - such as the ISj's) for each other.

I agree. From the given description ISTj would be another possibility.

[Mediator Kam]

alright, I just read the quadra values of both beta and gamma, and I found out that beta types blocked with and share a lot with my mother, but I have never seen any evidence that she "is energized by competitive situations where analytical tactics are emphasized." My mother is surely not an analyst and she hates competition. I mean loathes it.

But when I look at the subdued elements of the beta quadra, it's nothing like her at all. She likes detailed work, always talks about her inner feelings, and only does personal activities,she seem private and I have never seen her in a "competitive group activity."

When I read the gamma quadra values, it sounds a lot like her. I also know my mother has an PoLR, any idea that seems new she criticizes, but maybe that is because she's 52 and "traditional." She hates the idea of using a computer or being "non-normal."

ex: I bought a hoodie with fur around the collar recently, and she really didn't know why I would want to buy that, because it wasn't "normal." I told her "I don't care if it's not normal, normal is stupid." She was "omg, I like being normal." This sounds really ISTj tbh.

Really, I don't think she is beta, just because I know betas, and my mother just doesn't seem like one. Ask me more if you need.

[FDG]

I'd find much more typical of a Fi dominant to get attached in this manner rather than a Ti dominant. There doesn't seem to be an implication of "I want you to choose a certain life path" but rather "I want you to remain close to me".

[Elf]

she's 52 and "traditional." She hates the idea of using a computer

It seems to be the particular combination of sex, age (around thirty and over) and type. I know two women - ISTj and ISFj who are "allergic" to computers. The ISTj woman said that she tries to avoid using computers whenever possible and only knows how to turn them on (to write something or use internet, I assume) and to shut them down. The ISFj woman doesn't even know how to do that.

[stevENTj]

But with the children, damn she exterts control over almost every facet of my life. She has my future all planned out. I'm going to college in a year and a half, so I go to college, and live at home during college, working too. Then I'm going to establish myself after college, and get married, still living very close to her. Then, I will have a happy life living 2 blocks from my parents. I've told her this is controlling, but she just looks at me and says "It's your duty to live near your parents. You are not going to move away from us, not ever!"

I don't like it, but I have no choice. I just don't like a lot of things about ISFj people, and I only know one.

Go to school, study hard, and get good grades in a relevant field with good work potential so that you can get a good job, make decent money, live independently, and then you can do whatever the heck you want. Problem solved.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Mediator Kam]

what do you think defines her "normality"? simplicity; some other inner standard? or what other people think?

hmm, that's a good question. Her value system is built from family values, staying close together, being moral, no sex, drugs, etc. You made an excellent point about what other people think. Her favorite saying is "You are not leaving the house like that/buying that,
We don't wear those kind of clothes." I ask why and she says "People will look down on us, they think we don't take care of you." Always what other people think. So it goes both ways there

"inner feelings" - examples?

She's very emotional, to the point of logic doesn't work with her. Take for example the computer thing. She's a teacher, and the principal wants to meet her on monday so they can work on a plan to get her to learn computers. My mother resisted, and told us he doesn't need to meet her. My LII dad and I were trying to convince her to be reasonable, it is her job to learn whatever the principal tells her to. No, she screamed and acted like she was five years old. Her logic made no sense whatsoever, how all she needs to do is "die and pay taxes" and how she won't be forced into anything.

what kind of competition does she especially hate?

Just plain regular kind. Like, when my bro and I were racing bikes in our youth, I said "Let's have a race" My mother said "No, just ride, there will be no competition. Then someone will lose." That was a wtf moment there. Also, in the workforce, she can't handle being compared to other teachers, because she automatically thinks she's the worst.

what does it mean to be detailed but not analytical?

idk, she doesn't seem to think things through like me and my dad do. She's also a perfectionist, she does twice as much as other teachers do at her job, and it's detailed, but I just don't see my mother as someone who analyzes things.

It seems to be the particular combination of sex, age (around thirty and over) and type. I know two women - ISTj and ISFj who are "allergic" to computers. The ISTj woman said that she tries to avoid using computers whenever possible and only knows how to turn it on (to write something or use internet, I assume) and to shut it down. The ISFj woman doesn't even that.

yep, my mom doesn't even know how to do that, but she needs to know it now if she expects to keep her job, so I'm helping her.

[Wittmont]

Aww, your mum's ESI for sure Kamangir. Just don't let her mess too much with your life, cut the strings when the time comes or she will yank you around forever.

[Mediator Kam]

My dad's logical Ti wins out, it's true, but maybe I should apply more Se to my mom?

That just doesn't seem right, her Se is so self-justified.

btw, she's just a teacher in the school, a regular teacher.

So you believe she is beta LSI or does she sound more gamma?