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Thread: SEI-ILE duality relations discussion, stories and examples (ENTp and ISFp)

  1. #81
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    Default SEI/ILE duality

    I recently got together with my ILE uncle for a recording session and I thought that our interaction during that time clarified for me just what I love about duality (and what I can’t quite put into words).

    My uncle records jingles and things like that – so he sometimes gets me to play the violin or piano for them. He is so perfectionistic or idealistic about getting the exact right sound he’s after. He completely loses track of time – we could just go on forever recording take after take. :-) I love that. I love that he doesn’t patronise me or under-estimate my abilities. He seems to know what I am capable of and pushes me to strive for it. Not in a callous way though. He knows when I’m getting frustrated even though I don’t show it much. I am also very much a perfectionist – a lazy one though :-( – and I find ‘vision’ (for lack of a better word) extremely motivating. And enthusiasm. They make me come alive and forget about the present as much as it is possible for me to do so. I am still very much aware of time passing by (even if he isn’t), but I couldn’t care less.

    What Expat wrote regarding Ne (“how to shape the present reality into something closer to our wishes”) made me realise that this is why Si and Ne work so well together. Like with my uncle and I – I’d do take after take, and we’d both agree when they weren’t quite right – but I generally couldn’t tell exactly what was missing, and he would suggest changes based on some ‘vision’ he had in his head of the sound he was trying to achieve. He would be moulding my playing (present reality) into something closer to his wishes. And on the flip side, if he didn’t know how to put into words the effect he was after, he would encourage me to play around (in real time) with effects until I lit upon one that matched what he was after. I have to fall back on Expat’s description again because it is just perfect – “the Si flow is good; Ne snapshots show how to make it better. If you are caught only in the Si flow: you’ll never make it better. If you are caught only in the Ne snapshots: you’ll never come ‘down to earth’ to enjoy the peace of a dynamic Si flow.” If I was working by myself, I would soon get frustrated/bored with my lack of vision and probably settle for a result that didn’t measure up to my standards. So it’s a perfect partnership, and we motivate each other.

    Anyway, these are just some aspects of ILE/SEI duality that mean a lot to me - ones that I think are often overlooked. Also, I think some people tend to think – actually I should just speak for myself …. I used to think that duality was more based on a fascination and appreciation for functions that you could never really understand - but now I’m realising that it is quite possible to not be able to wrap your head around a person’s mental processes whilst still being able to intuit what the person is thinking/feeling. I love this about duality. There is an unspoken understanding of each other. I don’t have to worry about my words and actions being misinterpreted. I think ILEs are the only types (with the possible exception of my identicals) who see me for exactly who I am. No better, no worse. I feel like all the other types, including other Alphas, have a slightly or significantly skewed view of my personality. They blow some aspects of my personality out of proportion, zoom in on some characteristics, minimise others …. I realise that this is something we all do, being that we can only look at each other through our subjective lenses, but anyway. That’s how I feel.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

  2. #82
    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    howja change your name.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

  3. #83
    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    BTW I only get that feeling with my teacher, it's like we understand each other, even though we don't say anything at all. Very cool.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    It just gets worse and the worst,
    It just gets the best of us.

    D-D-D-Didi, this midwest address has made a mess of us!!!
    You know, I get excited when that song comes up on my ipod. Point me to the Morning is just superb also.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    I love Alpha Ne ya know?
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola aka Bee's Avatar
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    Does your avatar say wanking with strangers??!! I can't see through these beer goggles.

    Also I tried to fight someone on the train tonight. I think I'm depressed.

    Jem I just realised who you were. I was all like "who the fuck is this Jem girl with the cool name?!!?"
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    Does your avatar say wanking with strangers??!! I can't see through these beer goggles.

    Also I tried to fight someone on the train tonight. I think I'm depressed.

    Jem I just realised who you were. I was all like "who the fuck is this Jem girl with the cool name?!!?"
    wanking with strangers? lol get ur mind out of the gutter

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    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    Does your avatar say wanking with strangers??!! I can't see through these beer goggles.

    Also I tried to fight someone on the train tonight. I think I'm depressed.

    Jem I just realised who you were. I was all like "who the fuck is this Jem girl with the cool name?!!?"
    :-)
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington View Post
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    BOO DUALITY
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir View Post
    BOO DUALITY
    Death to the traitor!!
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    Death to the traitor!!
    *jumps on you*

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    I love the way you talk about your relationship with your uncle. I can also totally see myself in your description of him, but that's just probably because I am into music as well. The thing about focusing yourself on the present reality to make the best out of the stuff at hand and adjust things as close as possible to your wishes, works for me too. And I can't live without .
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamangir
    BOO DUALITY
    Well if that's the way you're going to be, then I don't love you anymore! So there! I won't explain any of my ideas or encourage you to go do exciting things ever again. Now get over here so I can beat you up to reinforce my point.

    ILE
    7w8 so/sp

    Very busy with work. Only kind of around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    Well if that's the way you're going to be, then I don't love you anymore! So there! I won't explain any of my ideas or encourage you to go do exciting things ever again. Now get over here so I can beat you up to reinforce my point.

    Proof all SEI duals are ESTp in disguise.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    Hahaha I wouldn't really beat you, Kam. You're too cute for that. What I might do, though, is force you to spend extensive amounts of time watching really sad movies with me as punishment. See how you like THAT!
    ILE
    7w8 so/sp

    Very busy with work. Only kind of around.

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    Default ILEs and relationships

    Hey there,
    Okay... so I'm approaching this idea of relationships in a usual ENTp manner, and I'm trying everything... I want success :-)

    But, it's hard. Looking back the only people I could see myself with and like a lot were ISFps and INTjs (but finding them!). And things didn't neccessarily work out. But, what should I look for? I feel I'm in a world full of lack of alphas... so I thought maybe I could have a relationship with another type. But is this generally successful? Am I wasting my time? Should I hunt down the types I want... argh, I don't know what to do.

    Opinions and advice, tres welcome :-)
    ENTp... love it

    3w2

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    Quote Originally Posted by EllaC View Post
    Hey there,
    Okay... so I'm approaching this idea of relationships in a usual ENTp manner, and I'm trying everything... I want success :-)

    But, it's hard. Looking back the only people I could see myself with and like a lot were ISFps and INTjs (but finding them!). And things didn't neccessarily work out. But, what should I look for? I feel I'm in a world full of lack of alphas... so I thought maybe I could have a relationship with another type. But is this generally successful? Am I wasting my time? Should I hunt down the types I want... argh, I don't know what to do.

    Opinions and advice, tres welcome :-)
    well, of course you could have a relationship with another type! Don't base your relationships on type alone. But if you're looking for SEIs.... try art galleries, museums, gardening events, music venues, cooking classes... art classes, architecture, amusement parks, etc. Look for the quiet, unassuming ones with big grins on their faces (granted, IEIs sometimes fit this category also). If you start talking to one, throw out some random crazy ideas and see if their eyes light up.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  20. #100
    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola aka Bee's Avatar
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    Yeah, that would be me...I would also search out underground or little known bohemian style art markets and gatherings. I'm all over those things. I would look for someone who is quiet blah blah blah as above but occasionally makes loud, short emotional bursts of excitement. Perhaps that's my Fe Subtype talking though.
    Last edited by Khola aka Bee; 03-07-2010 at 12:10 PM.
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    Yeah, that would be me...I would also search out underground or little known bohemian style art markets and getherings. I'm all over those things. I would look for someone who is quiet blah blah blah as above but occasionally makes loud, short emotional bursts of excitement. Perhaps that's my Fe Subtype talking though.
    isn't that what you're ilke?

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    Pretend like it's the weekend Banana Pancakes's Avatar
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    ILEs and relationships ==> fail.
    ILE-Ti
    6w7 sx/sp (low level of confidence)

  23. #103
    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola aka Bee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    isn't that what you're ilke?
    Well yeah, but she's ILE, she's searching out random versions of me by definition, crazy person!
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    Well yeah, but she's ILE, she's searching out random versions of me by definition, crazy person!
    so she, by association, must be crazy too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EllaC View Post
    Hey there,
    Okay... so I'm approaching this idea of relationships in a usual ENTp manner, and I'm trying everything... I want success :-)

    But, it's hard. Looking back the only people I could see myself with and like a lot were ISFps and INTjs (but finding them!). And things didn't neccessarily work out. But, what should I look for? I feel I'm in a world full of lack of alphas... so I thought maybe I could have a relationship with another type. But is this generally successful? Am I wasting my time? Should I hunt down the types I want... argh, I don't know what to do.

    Opinions and advice, tres welcome :-)
    could youever see yourself going out with a girl like bee?

  26. #106
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    Guys I'm not crazy, nor do relationships fail!

    Argh more advice... any advice???
    ENTp... love it

    3w2

  27. #107
    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola aka Bee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    could youever see yourself going out with a girl like bee?
    Funny you should say that...
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Quote Originally Posted by Banana Pancakes View Post
    ILEs and relationships ==> fail.
    What exactly do you mean by "fail"?

  29. #109
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    Default Similarities in ILE - SEI relationship experiences

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    My gf is dedicated too much to the relationship to be concerned about studies anymore, but they are required, imo.
    It's good that you're able to take yourself out of the situation and see exactly what might benefit her.

    If I can say so myself, that's been one of my biggest strengths, too. At one point, her anxiety about not having had a relationship before got to be "too much" and raised the question of us being "just friends." Instead of getting myself invested in the situation, I helped her sort through it and sought to reassure her on her terms.

    Btw about patience, even if my gf has a somehow large sphere of knowledge, it actually not enough at all, considering that I'm almost sure I'll not pay enough attention to the (to come, I hope) children. This sucks, sucks, sucks! But I know how I'll behave, no matter how much I hate that in me.
    Can you explain what you mean here? I think I resonate with it, but I'm not sure.

    Other Dual interactions I read about were also useful, they went through this, and I hope our discussion will smooth other people's trust gain in their dual.
    I'm hoping for the same thing for myself.

    My parents (ILE/ESI) have a conflicting relationship that amazingly follows the theory, but their relationship and my own experiences had colored my perception of relations in general for a long time. I'm not gonna lie--it's still taking some time for me to completely trust that this is the real deal, despite all that I've read, the opinions of those with similar relationships, and what I feel.

    I believe the result is the same and that's the only thing that matters.


    I became maybe careless, but at least no one can constrain me anymore.
    Spoken like a true ILE

    One might think that the Dual becomes an Achilles' heel, but I think it's not the case. At least for me and probably the Ne's. The realization of the huge beneficial potential to fuse with Duals, essentially makes me mentally invulnerable.
    I can see this.. another bringing out the best in you certainly leads to a feeling of invulnerability.

    Btw, do you agree that SEIs' eyebrows are one of their most distinctive feature?
    I've definitely noticed this in her, though she's the only SEI that I've typed for sure. Something very childlike and innocent about their whole demeanor, too.

    At first I used sets of traits, values to be common in both partners, until I realized that some of them are subjective and others should be different than the partner's. But which? Well yeah, I found the truth in the end.
    Your trek in searching for information on relationships, and your end conclusion, sound a lot like my own.

    In my reading, I'd always wondered what it meant to have "opposites attract"--how exactly that worked. To me, my parents were opposites and had a horrible relationship. I had thought that I needed someone who could understand me and communicate with me, and, therefore, I needed someone with an analytical and intuitive mind. Thankfully, this was not the case. The notion of duals having similar goals and different but complementary means toward them makes that notion of "opposites" make sense for me.

    So far, the primary (and pretty much only) issue I've had is her not opening up to me--she's very, very shy in general with some anxiety thrown in--but I've found that this has gotten much better over time.
    Last edited by greed; 07-06-2009 at 02:58 AM.
    IEE-Ne | ENFP | 4w3-6w7-9w1 so/sp/sx | sCoA|I| | Sanguine/Choleric | Benevolent Inventor

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    Default An ISFp and an ENTp

    Yesterday I was hanging out with a family friend who I'm pretty sure is an Alpha SF, and more likely to be an SEI. We were talking, when the subject of a friend of mine, who I and another have typed as an ILE, came up.

    I don't think she finds him repulsive, but she talked quite critically of him. One of her peeves was that he likes to embellish things in order to gain your sympathy, sort of. Also, she pointed out how when he was working at the same place as her daughters, her youngest daughter (10 or 11, I think) was hauling pumpkins, and he was sitting on a wagon with his younger sister, talking.

    The last one didn't seem to bother me at all, because I'm sure that even Duals can criticize the other for behavioral faults. The first one bothers me more, because I think the embellishing could possibly be related to Ne, and more specifically, Leading Ne. Lying I definitely could see bothering her, and maybe that's just it, but I'm not sure what to make of it.

    Forgive me if I have any mistaken ideas in here, but I thought it would be worthy to discuss. I'm also fairly confident about their types, but any feedback or comments are welcome.
    IJ temperament
    LII ()
    LII-Ne
    H-LII
    Ni-LII
    iei-LII

    Enneagram: 5(w4?)

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    I know some types that frequently complain about health problems, or their physical condition in some way. I find it kind of irritating because I keep thinking "yea, we all have problems, why don't you do something about it?" But I guess they don't really know what to do about it, hence the seeking behavior.
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Currere View Post
    Yesterday I was hanging out with a family friend who I'm pretty sure is an Alpha SF, and more likely to be an SEI. We were talking, when the subject of a friend of mine, who I and another have typed as an ILE, came up.

    I don't think she finds him repulsive, but she talked quite critically of him. One of her peeves was that he likes to embellish things in order to gain your sympathy, sort of. Also, she pointed out how when he was working at the same place as her daughters, her youngest daughter (10 or 11, I think) was hauling pumpkins, and he was sitting on a wagon with his younger sister, talking.

    The last one didn't seem to bother me at all, because I'm sure that even Duals can criticize the other for behavioral faults. The first one bothers me more, because I think the embellishing could possibly be related to Ne, and more specifically, Leading Ne. Lying I definitely could see bothering her, and maybe that's just it, but I'm not sure what to make of it.

    Forgive me if I have any mistaken ideas in here, but I thought it would be worthy to discuss. I'm also fairly confident about their types, but any feedback or comments are welcome.
    could she be ESI? I can't see an SEI being critical of that sort of thing.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    I used to criticize my dual for being too business-oriented and serious. haha My opinion is that for the dualizing to take effect, it can take time and really comes as a whole package once you get the know the person. So I suppose there could be bits and pieces of criticism now that I think about it.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Well, the woman, from my understanding, shows Si behaviour:

    When my Dad, myself, and her husband were visiting, she first brought out drinks (which I suppose isn't so significant). Yet, she first made me a thing of hot chocolate (because she knows I'm not a coffee drinker), and then, just in case I didn't like the hot chocolate, she had a can of Dole juice ready. Not only that, but I mentioned something about how it tasted like marshmallows, and after going to make refills, she brought me a cup of chocolate with a lot of marshmallows. Then, when we were talking later, she was making sure I had water, I had cake, and I was attended to nicely.

    Also, she worked as a nurse for many years (and I think even in a mental institution), and then she moved on to being a school counselor type of thing.

    This might not be definitive, but I kept thinking Si the whole time.

    But beyond this, I'm sure she's Fe-valuing. She gets along really well with an ESE (who is the ILE guy's mom, actually). They're very good friends, and the accounts I hear tell of endless laughing, joking, and goofing around. She's also pretty goofy on her own, but to a milder degree than the ESE.

    There was another time where she was dropping some friends of mine and myself off at a city. On the way there, the atmosphere seemed very Fe-heavy, with her enjoying it and I think even influencing it. She let us put our heads out windows, snap pictures of other drivers, as well as everyone in the car waving to creep them out, and other stuff, all the while saying she liked that we were having fun.

    Not only this, but I have an ESI female teacher, and they don't seem very alike at all.
    IJ temperament
    LII ()
    LII-Ne
    H-LII
    Ni-LII
    iei-LII

    Enneagram: 5(w4?)

  37. #117
    Currere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I used to criticize my dual for being too business-oriented and serious. haha My opinion is that for the dualizing to take effect, it can take time and really comes as a whole package once you get the know the person. So I suppose there could be bits and pieces of criticism now that I think about it.
    Well, and the thing is, they don't really interact all that much; that I know of, anyways. She's much more familiar and better friends with his mother than him. It could be an age gap, too, hey?
    IJ temperament
    LII ()
    LII-Ne
    H-LII
    Ni-LII
    iei-LII

    Enneagram: 5(w4?)

  38. #118
    redbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Currere View Post
    Well, and the thing is, they don't really interact all that much; that I know of, anyways. She's much more familiar and better friends with his mother than him. It could be an age gap, too, hey?
    yeah, totally.

    and I completely retract my ESI suggestion. LOL!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  39. #119
    constant change electric sheep's Avatar
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    Yea, just because you complain about someone's behavior doesn't mean they aren't your dual. I probably complain about my dual more than anyone here. I've known plenty of ESEs that drove me nuts.
    But also I complained about someone I thought was my dual, but turned out to be my semi-dual.
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by fear of sleep View Post
    Yea, just because you complain about someone's behavior doesn't mean they aren't your dual.
    Yeah, I initially just waived it and said, "I guess this just proves that even Duals can find problems in each other." But then it started to bother me, because of the whole "embellishment" thing, and how I thought it might be linked to Ne.

    Also, there was a guy who a friend of mine (also an LII) typed as ESE, but I didn't fully go along with it because I found some things he did that bothered me. Now I'm a bit more confident that the guy is ESE, but it was weird to think that I could find slight irritations in my Dual.

    Oh well, I guess we're all human, and that means anyone can find something wrong with us.
    IJ temperament
    LII ()
    LII-Ne
    H-LII
    Ni-LII
    iei-LII

    Enneagram: 5(w4?)

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