Donald Trump

[Not A Communist Shill]

what does make trump really extroverted outside of being loud on stage? haven't heard all that much from him. he might spend all of his time in his tower browsing his social network like an introvert.

I think he's one of the most extreme extroverts on the planet, he doesn't seem to have an internal monologue, doesn't seem to read widely aside from a few tweets praising him on Twitter or whatever social network he is on now. He's very much a man of action, not a great thinker, no especially complex thought. I could probably find some reports that psychologists did of him that may cover his level of extroversion that may cover this better.

https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/1...id.2016.10.053

[on a peaceful hiatus]

I think he's one of the most extreme extroverts on the planet, he doesn't seem to have an internal monologue, doesn't seem to read widely aside from a few tweets praising him on Twitter or whatever social network he is on now. He's very much a man of action, not a great thinker, no especially complex thought. I could probably find some reports that psychologists did of him that may cover his level of extroversion that may cover this better.

I've read just as many reports of people claiming he is introverted. he certainly plays a role and entertains a crowd, gives them what he thinks they want, but outside of that in his private life he seems to not be all that expressive. seems to have a very stable connection with his family and has been married to melania for nearly 20 years.

[Not A Communist Shill]

I've read just as many reports of people claiming he is introverted. he certainly plays a role and entertains a crowd, gives them what he thinks they want, but outside of that in his private life he seems to not be all that expressive. seems to have a very stable connection with his family and has been married to melania for nearly 20 years.

There's this paper too, which explores his personality in depth, although I don't like the style, and I think you'll find it difficult to read. I'll try to post a better response sometime, but I'm quite tired now.

https://digitalcommons.csbsju.edu/cg...sychology_pubs


Oh, and another one: https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...91886917305688

[on a peaceful hiatus]

There's this paper too, which explores his personality in depth, although I don't like the style, and I think you'll find it difficult to read. I'll try to post a better response sometime, but I'm quite tired now.

https://digitalcommons.csbsju.edu/cg...sychology_pubs

don't sweat it. I'm kinda tired of Trump in general to be honest. it won't really have any effect on my life knowing he's E or I.

[Finaplex]

Malignant narcissists aren't self-aware about what they're doing. Also narcissists do as they're told and DJT is famous for never doing as he's told.

ah........

this is your experience ? Its the total opposite for me. Narc do not do as they are told, in fact they sabotage everything they are asked not to do. The will literally use that thing and do it it to the Nth degree.

This isn't just selfishness, or self-centredness,

I think you need bit more hands on experience with this one.

[Sol]

an example of SLE (Kimmel) for the comparision with Trump (ENFJ) of impressions from nonverbal behavior
for the correctness, both have similar occupation of clowning TV hosts

[Finaplex]

SLE. for the comparision of impressions from nonverbal behavior
for the correctness, both have similar occupation of clowning TV hosts

I see you evolved him from EIE to SLE.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

Jimmy Kimmel - IEI

Same type, different belief, occupation, ideology, things that have nothing to do with types. guess what they have in common? both love standing in front of an audience entertaining others (Fe)

[Finaplex]

Jimmy Kimmel - IEI

Same type, different belief, occupation, ideology, things that have nothing to do with types. guess what they have in common? both love standing in front of an audience entertaining others (Fe)

Oh God you obviously don't know how much of a ham SLEs can be.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

Oh God you obviously don't know how much of a ham SLEs can be.

source: "trust me, bro"

[Expansion]

He does everything by this book:

Te Activation

Fi Creative

IMO, every press conference i've seen in his tenure, esp with covid, and there were myriads of these public meetings surrounding the pandemic, all you see is him looking for clarity in facts from experts and splicing this info together. His facts were collected and manipulated by him, with little depth of understanding how it all worked. Taking blocks of info and arranging them or organizing them ala Te. His Fi is obvious making friends and allies and by praising them, or diminishing them in another turn on a dime. Flighty.

I've never seen an ESTp who is this flighty.


There was no logic to this display, you are a 'lout' or you are a 'saint' on turn of a dime because i feel it that way. You crossed me, you don't agree with me. It's a superficial glib posture.

That is what i've seen in him for the 4.

The flip side is every ESFp i've known is never this brutal and harsh to people in put downs. In fact i've never seen ESTps like that either. If an ESTp does it, it has a reason for it for your failure in the objective system, not some whim because you disagree with him.

Granted Trump is a walking Psyche patient IMO.

You could paint an ESTp Se type caricature also, and that would cut into Ti, and Fe would be the big MO.

[necrosebud]

idk
SLE or LSE is possible

kind of gives me a sense of naivete sometimes wrt Fi (not per se referring to the 'controversial' or obviously uncouth/'wrong' things he has said or done, but something deeper, like there might be reflection on that missing, which I don't find typical of Fi in the ego block)

[SacredKnowing]

ah........

this is your experience ? Its the total opposite for me. Narc do not do as they are told, in fact they sabotage everything they are asked not to do. The will literally use that thing and do it it to the Nth degree.

This isn't just selfishness, or self-centredness,

I think you need bit more hands on experience with this one.

Agreement and agreeability are narcissist values. Narcissists deep down inside... want to agree with people. So they lie (the Truth is not always an agreeable value: read the Gospel of John). Of course then nobody trusts them so they become vengeful.

Evil doesn't always look evil. In fact, it can almost look the same as good. But by their fruits ye shall know them (Matthew 7:16 KJV). When a narcissist is finished with his mission on Earth, the fruit is that it feels like you went back to the past. After all, the name of their personality type comes from an Ancient Greek myth so long ago that the first written account of it was in A.D. 8.

The personality type implementation for narcissists is shallow neural networks with feedback, so agreeability is an essential part of how they think.

EDIT: Be careful of which Bible translation you choose. Revised Standard Version translates Isaiah 7:14 as "young woman" and not "virgin". NIV is an abomination.

[BrainlessSquid]

Just don't type him Ni lead, and I won't judge your typing skills

[Not A Communist Shill]

EII.

[Expansion]

His elixir statement using bleach intravenously for covid is one of the most ignorant things i've ever heard. I've heard similar things from them.

His IQ is high enough, but something is rotten in Denmark for considering this bandwagon jump. I'm skeptical of ESTp.

[End]

I think he's one of the most extreme extroverts on the planet, he doesn't seem to have an internal monologue, doesn't seem to read widely aside from a few tweets praising him on Twitter or whatever social network he is on now. He's very much a man of action, not a great thinker, no especially complex thought. I could probably find some reports that psychologists did of him that may cover his level of extroversion that may cover this better.

That may be, but that's exactly why the likes of people like me support him so much. A great LSE author whom I hope to be even half as talented as put it best: https://www.scifiwright.com/2023/10/tucker-re-trump/

To be so absolutely hated and opposed by the entire uniparty is nothing short of an endorsement from what might as well be the Almighty. If every single "Satanic" force hates him is that not endorsement enough? Hell, it's all American TBH. "We love him most for the enemies he has made" is, one must admit, something that could (and did) only happen "In America".

Such bombastic Beta's and Gamma's are pretty much an American brand at this point. I say we just own it and be thankful that the whole Gamma tendency towards Villainy hasn't manifested in any meaningful manner. I mean, if you pushed me to name a place where it has I'd point you towards the "modern" Comic industry. Proof positive that while ya don't gotta be a genius to value , ya kinda do need that to actually profit from that and actually "sell" product as ya do so.

I mean friggin' hell the whole Color pallet is just so borked ya gotta wonder who the hell they hired to come up with it.

[SacredKnowing]

That may be, but that's exactly why the likes of people like me support him so much. A great LSE author whom I hope to be even half as talented as put it best: https://www.scifiwright.com/2023/10/tucker-re-trump/

To be so absolutely hated and opposed by the entire uniparty is nothing short of an endorsement from what might as well be the Almighty. If every single "Satanic" force hates him is that not endorsement enough? Hell, it's all American TBH. "We love him most for the enemies he has made" is, one must admit, something that could (and did) only happen "In America".

Such bombastic Beta's and Gamma's are pretty much an American brand at this point. I say we just own it and be thankful that the whole Gamma tendency towards Villainy hasn't manifested in any meaningful manner. I mean, if you pushed me to name a place where it has I'd point you towards the "modern" Comic industry. Proof positive that while ya don't gotta be a genius to value , ya kinda do need that to actually profit from that and actually "sell" product as ya do so.

I mean friggin' hell the whole Color pallet is just so borked ya gotta wonder who the hell they hired to come up with it.

John C. Wright is LII. He typed himself as Mr. Spock several times and he's going places. If he proves Dr. Steven Deutch wrong about global warming being pseudoscientific despite having no expertise then he'll be upgraded to doing anything he pleases and literally become the Data Integration Thought Entity.

Sometimes LSE's like Elon Musk or Tails the Fox (who are one and the same) can look LII, but aren't. John C. Wright is an LII who sounds LSE because he references Ancient Greek Myths a lot in his writing.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

Elon Musk LSE? a fantasy author LII? What am I even reading here... someone is LSE when they reference Ancient Greek Myths??? That points towards Ni

[SacredKnowing]

Elon Musk LSE? a fantasy author LII? What am I even reading here... someone is LSE when they reference Ancient Greek Myths??? That points towards Ni

Elon Musk is LSE because workaholic and schmoozer are both LSE values. He just imitates LII's like Nikola Tesla.

John C. Wright references Greek Myths in all of his writing to keep rubes from finding out that he's future-oriented. It was the same tactic Albert Einstein (another LII) employed to keep ignorant cowboys and farmgirls from pestering him about relativity. It is a good example of LII using demonstrative , which he employs only for the purpose of mockery and ridicule.

Einstein has been bothered a good deal when he comes to N. Y. by people who stop him in the street and say, "Aren't you Professor Einstein?" The Professor finally figured out a dodge. He says with great humility, and in broken English, "Pardon me, sorry! Always I am mistaken for Professor Einstein." People turn away without saying any more.

(Source: The New Yorker, January 14, 1939 P. 11)

[Sol]

Elon Musk is LSE because workaholic

When you notice ideas about types - you should to try to link strongly with specific traits of types. If you can't - forget that nonsense.
Also, about famouses you know a little, except their nonverbal, for supposing types.

> LSE values

yeah, try to link overworking with Te/Fi/Si/Ne

[SacredKnowing]

When you notice ideas about types - you should to try to link strongly with specific traits of types. If you can't - forget that nonsense.
Also, about famouses you know a little, except their nonverbal, for supposing types.

> LSE values

yeah, try to link overworking with Te/Fi/Si/Ne

In faerie tale folklore Prince Charming is an LSE character archetype. Attraction belongs to both LSE and SLE but charming is firmly LSE.

[Finaplex]

Agreement and agreeability are narcissist values. Narcissists deep down inside... want to agree with people. So they lie (the Truth is not always an agreeable value: read the Gospel of John). Of course then nobody trusts them so they become vengeful.

Yes. Int he end they go against themselves AND others as well. It's an endless, twisted, convoluted, merry go-round. Same as what Trump does. Just endless drama.

Evil doesn't always look evil. In fact, it can almost look the same as good.

Oh.. I know.

But by their fruits ye shall know them (Matthew 7:16 KJV).

Mm-hmm.

When a narcissist is finished with his mission on Earth, the fruit is that it feels like you went back to the past.

How so?

The personality type implementation for narcissists is shallow neural networks with feedback, so agreeability is an essential part of how they think.

This is highly variable because it depends on the individual. Sometimes, and usually after the love bombing, they becoming highly disagreeable. In the end, if you love them, they will leave you a hollowed out shell. Same as what Trump does to the people around him.

[Finaplex]

source: "trust me, bro"

[SacredKnowing]

How so?

If you're an American... look at the presidency of George W. Bush. In A.D. 2000, the world was so futuristic. By the time A.D. 2008 came around, it felt like you were in A.D. 600. It still feels like that, and it seems that we're going even further into the past (in spite of world-changing technology like ChatGPT4).

[hellohellohello]

Honestly, I'm leaning EIE for Trump. I'm not seeing how this guy is a Logical type at all. Extroverted. Rational. Ethical. EIE > ESE.

[Dee]

ESTp

[WinnieW]

4D Se + at least 2D Fe in Socionics for Donald Trump, the Pied Piper of Mar-a-Lago, malicious demagog,
I don't dare to rate his public political speeches on the open-ended Goebbels scale... but if we're lucky it's just senile stubbernness.

[Sol]

malicious demagog

the sequence of USA presis since Bush-small times
Reagan was the same

cause:
malicious - by USA state ideology
demagog - by the occupation of TV-host who should convince in opposite to above, where F types have outstanding skills

[WinnieW]

Lol, Sol, my statement was about Donald Trump, not about the political system in general.

That might be a discussion for a separate thread.

[Sol]

EII

It's close to correct and probably you follow to an analogy with Hithler, when he was typed so by many of MBTI (and its manual) accented users.
It's correct that Trump indeed has same Jung type as Hithler, George Bush-jr, Ronald Reagan, Alive etc.
It's only another "that type" - close ENFJ.

MBTI accented ones use mainly dichotomies, much lesser use and hence worse understand and worse may apply e/i sides of functions. Additionally they accept the mistake that introverted people having leading J function by some magic behave in P style. So they should do more of mistakes in traits: E/I and J/P.

I also may assume that you posted a joke to oppose to leading in the voting nonsense as SLE for him. Would be not 1st from you here, in a try to devalue what you've failed to use and then declared openly "hating".

[Not A Communist Shill]

It's close to correct and probably you follow to an analogy with Hithler, when he was typed so by many of MBTI (and its manual) accented users.
It's correct that Trump indeed has same Jung type as Hithler, George Bush-jr, Ronald Reagan, Alive etc.
It's only another "that type" - close ENFJ.

MBTI accented ones use mainly dichotomies, much lesser use and hence worse understand and worse may apply e/i sides of functions. Additionally they accept the mistake that introverted people having leading J function by some magic behave in P style. So they should do more of mistakes in traits: E/I and J/P.

I also may assume that you posted a joke to oppose to leading in the voting nonsense as SLE for him. Would be not 1st from you here, in a try to devalue what you've failed to use and then declared openly "hating".

I think Trump is one of the clearest examples of ESTP in Jungian dichotomy terms - I doubt there are many famous people in history who are more "obvious", apart from maybe people like Genghis Khan - only in Genghis Khan's case, I think he may not have scored especially low in terms of conscientiousness, so I think Trump may well be the most "obvious" and well-known example.

Judging from Socionics terms however, Trump displays little or , but he doesn't seem to have much of an introverted side generally.

I only said "EII" in this thread in response to this post:

Just don't type him Ni lead, and I won't judge your typing skills

Because I thought EII was just as absurd as ILI or IEI, and probably more so in my opinion.

[Finaplex]

4D Se + at least 2D Fe in Socionics for Donald Trump, the Pied Piper of Mar-a-Lago, malicious demagog,
I don't dare to rate his public political speeches on the open-ended Goebbels scale... but if we're lucky it's just senile stubbernness.

[necrosebud]

I’m pondering and seem to have sudden sense of insight after interacting more with LSEs

the grandiosity can often maybe not always be observed in even the healthiest of LSEs - with him it’s exaggerated
Mostly deriving from TeSi, pushing Fi into the shadow as is obvious from the way he conducts himself publicly and why many might have an objection to him on characterological grounds

I’ve also suddenly been wondering… if in addition… he is very simple… an instinct
that someone ‘cunning’ enough could manipulate him easily to their advantage

I see a sensing type regardless
I thinkkkk LSE?!

I think his demeanor is very Si/Ne esp compared to Se egos say like Travis Flimmel or maybe the Aquaman actor I haven’t looked too deeply into them just example but basically any Se ego that I can think of and I also don’t think he is good at Fi, or what F as a strength entails in general I dont see SEE

i like to look at the oldest videos I can find of people when they were less media ready or trying to … come across a certain way hopefully closer to natural
and the more videos from that era I see of him the more I can see the classic Delta aristocrat

i know the aristocrat/democrat dichotomy not quite what I’m saying here maybe there’s some remnant of it tho a reason why they picked those words to describe what they do


examples of people I think may be Beta ST for comparison

another one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybTtXFd7zXs

...had more but I can't find them atm

[Adam Strange]

Opinions about Donald trump, from the people who worked most closely with him:

[Metamorph]

Trump allies prepare to infuse ‘Christian nationalism’ in second administration - POLITICO

Maybe Trump and Elongated Muskrat are Calvinist duals.

I would say it's true that rights come from God and that's the basis of the Constitution as well as a lot of Enlightenment thought, but Calvinists are well-known to always redefine terms and they think rights come from everyone believing in their God (Lucifer,) they don't think they're just natural rights everyone inherently has regardless of what anyone or any government does like the Constitution says.

[youfloweryourfeast]

How is Elon musk LSE