View Poll Results: type of Donald Trump?

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  • ILE (ENTp)

    3 1.99%
  • SEI (ISFp)

    3 1.99%
  • ESE (ESFj)

    3 1.99%
  • LII (INTj)

    2 1.32%
  • SLE (ESTp)

    103 68.21%
  • IEI (INFp)

    2 1.32%
  • EIE (ENFj)

    8 5.30%
  • LSI (ISTj)

    2 1.32%
  • SEE (ESFp)

    33 21.85%
  • ILI (INTp)

    2 1.32%
  • LIE (ENTj)

    8 5.30%
  • ESI (ISFj)

    1 0.66%
  • IEE (ENFp)

    2 1.32%
  • SLI (ISTp)

    2 1.32%
  • LSE (ESTj)

    2 1.32%
  • EII (INFj)

    4 2.65%
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Thread: Donald Trump

  1. #1081
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    Socionomics gets Gorbachev right, he is SEE...

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    Quote Originally Posted by kinderlich View Post
    Socionomics is broken, in that Napoleon (representative for SEE) Julius Caesar, Alexander the Great are all ENTJ. So ...when socionomicists say Trump is SEE...that decodes to... Trump is ENTJ.

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  3. #1083
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    I think Donald Trump is SEI-Si. Haha just putting some oil on the fire Here some posts from me in another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    He's not Se-dom because even if he has strong Se, he isn't using it. I don't see him creating strict power relations, it's more talky talky instead of do-y do-y as with SLEs.
    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    from an information metabolism point of view, I can't see his Se in another position than ignoring and his Ne as inferior. And he's definitely not a Se-Ni valuer, he has no vision whatsoever for the US ('Make the US great again' is not a vision, it's a cold war memorabilia; it's just about nostalgia and going back in time) and he doesn't ask for discipline from himself or anyone to achieve one; his campaign is mostly based on PR stunts and support rallies("look! everybody cares about me!") rather than any appeal to forceful mobilisation("I was brought to power for a reason!").

    He's also not Ep. When he does Se, it always sounds like empty threats to me; like when he threatened North Korea, I'd never believe the situation could in fact escalate because there was no real reason for it, and the Se/Ne consequences would have been completely catastrophic without any gain for western countries. It was only about Trump saying to North Korea: "Look! I'm peeing into your pool because I'm a bad bad boiiiiiii woof woof".

    I think you're right about Ti>Te for him; now I lean towards SEI-Si.
    I rarely feel alone. I rarely talk to anyone, yet in my head i have the most amazing, the most fantastic discussions with the people in my life. In real life, what most people talk about is several orders of magnitude lesser than their inner experiences. Most people never reveal the singularity of their subjective experience.
    Maybe I should learn to explore other people's consciousness. Maybe I should aim for a real space between me and others. Instead of cultivating monologues and fantasies. It's hard, but the alternative to this seems to be madness. ~ lkdhf qkb

    Life is soup. I'm fork


  4. #1084
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    I think Donald Trump is SEI-Si. Haha just putting some oil on the fire Here some posts from me in another thread:
    You people need to stop absorbing the media image of the guy and actually look at how he moves, talks, and thinks. If there's no chance of him invading North Korea that's because he has people to talk him out of that, not necessarily because he thinks he's making an empty threat. He is certainly attuned to the power dynamics of face-to-face communication; by God, look at the 2016 debate footage where he made minced meat from the other Republican nominees. And his ability to read a crowd and manipulate it is phenomenal. It's unfortunate for him that whoever he hired to replace Steve Bannon as campaign manager is abysmal, but his Se and Fi skills are really apparent, or at least were. I think he's undergoing a cognitive decline that may make it more difficult to type him from how he seems now, but again, if you look at older footage of him, there's no question of his type.

    And if you think he's Ti-valuing I don't know what to tell you. Consistency and precision have always been complete non-issues for him. What he cares about is getting results.

  5. #1085
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    You people need to stop absorbing the media image of the guy and actually look at how he moves, talks, and thinks. If there's no chance of him invading North Korea that's because he has people to talk him out of that, not necessarily because he thinks he's making an empty threat.

    He doesn't think he's making an empty threat, for sure; that doesn't make him Se-dom, only deluded. It's just Te-nonsense to even start to think invading a place that has no ressources, potentially nukes and has the backing of China which is a commercial partner of the USA. Any military action would have had dire economic consequences on the liberal globalized market of which the US are the leader. There was nothing to gain from it. Let them play with their nukes and the day they send their half assed thing over the ocean you intercept it with your anti-nuke missiles from your overbudgeted defense and then you have a nice excuse to bulldoze the whole place without pissing off China. It's as if Trump has no clue of "what can be done" and "what will bring results" and isn't even interested in that unless it brings him money(sp dom). So I don't think he's a Te valuer; but I understand why you think he's flippant about Ti. However I agree with @Duschia that his morally relativistic and free-speech-above-human-rights stance is very Fe/Ti.


    And from a Se/power point of view, it would have been the same as being a rich mafia thug and bullying the old lady around the corner for 3 cents. Just makes you look cheap and isn't worth your time. There is nothing to prove for Se, everyone knows North Korea is just some pipsqueak.The only reason he threatened North Korea was because it's "the ennemy"; isn't that a common thread in Ti/Fe quadras? Using a common ennemy to assemble? To get public support?


    SEE might not be strong with Ni or Te, but they don't ignore it when it's in their face like Trump does. If you still think he's SEE I don't know what to tell you.
    I rarely feel alone. I rarely talk to anyone, yet in my head i have the most amazing, the most fantastic discussions with the people in my life. In real life, what most people talk about is several orders of magnitude lesser than their inner experiences. Most people never reveal the singularity of their subjective experience.
    Maybe I should learn to explore other people's consciousness. Maybe I should aim for a real space between me and others. Instead of cultivating monologues and fantasies. It's hard, but the alternative to this seems to be madness. ~ lkdhf qkb

    Life is soup. I'm fork


  6. #1086
    I only pledge my allegiance to the hotness. Kiana's Avatar
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    Default Donald Trump

    From an MBTI perspective, I thought he’s ENTJ. For a time, I’ve casually accepted that he could be SLE but ignored his rough around the edges Te manners which gave me doubts he is SLE. I used to blame that on him being a New Yorker cuz they’re not smooth, no matter what type, so it could just be a cultural bias.

    Recently, an SEE from New York brought up the point that his Se is not smooth, not the way lead Se types utilize it. Trump’s Se has something to prove, that it desires to strongly make a point/statement, which is mob Se. I’m an Se lead and she’s an Se lead and we both independently observed the same thing. Moreso, I noticed that even though he’s in the position of enormous power, an Se lead wouldn’t fire back to any and all criticism, but a Te would most definitely do so. Se leads know how to scale “force” in accordance to what is realistically deemed as fitting, and often times, no force is necessary. I’m speaking from experience as one and my observations of other Se leads: Se leads bank on the reality that they themselves have a powerful “presence,” so much of the “power” they’ve willed is indirect and unspoken and it’s through their actions that they’ve established authority. Trump’s authority is via steamrolling, which is Te, not Se.

    So after thinking about the discussion with SEE, and formulating my own analysis, I agree with her, Trump is LIE.


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    Last edited by Kiana; 10-17-2020 at 03:38 PM.

  7. #1087

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    Now I'm like, maybe sol was right and Trump is EIE.

    For serious: this guy is not very bright, or at least ends up being so because of his 'going after' being liked (which is /very/ unlike typical LxEs, but is somewhat common in XLEs - Fe HA - and other Fe-types). This guy wants to have power and fun, but more fun (and add money, prestige, being liked to that please). His Ni seems to be... Weeping on the floor. His coherence is close to none - no Ji in sight. He is also apparently a massive narcissist.

    So, whoever is dual to this dude: this is a red-flag person. This is someone whom you should skip /even/ if they are your dual, as they are in a very 'unhealthy' state so to speak and they are likely to screw you more than to help you. It is why people don't want to see him as their dual or as their quadra. Because he is a dumbo-bimbo in a way and we all know that. And he is unlikely to change, unless presented with someone genuinely nice towards him, preferably his dual, who wants to change this mess and has a vision of doing so (and yet, as mentioned, this could easily fail and be dangerous to said dual). Or maybe I'm thinking about it in Fi/Te terms too much.


    (also, lol at his authority)

  8. #1088

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    His agency to 'choose enemy' and 'catch him' is very Fe/Ti. I'm not sorry.



    (From 41:05, but overall it's a very interesting talk)

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  9. #1089
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    I’ve been reading this thread backwards. Uhg I’m feeling upside down .

  10. #1090
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    ...just for fun... red hair hunches Ni-Se axis. For Trump Ni above Se.

  11. #1091
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    I think Donald Trump is SEI-Si. Haha just putting some oil on the fire
    Changed my mind to ESE. Inferior Ti suits him better.
    I rarely feel alone. I rarely talk to anyone, yet in my head i have the most amazing, the most fantastic discussions with the people in my life. In real life, what most people talk about is several orders of magnitude lesser than their inner experiences. Most people never reveal the singularity of their subjective experience.
    Maybe I should learn to explore other people's consciousness. Maybe I should aim for a real space between me and others. Instead of cultivating monologues and fantasies. It's hard, but the alternative to this seems to be madness. ~ lkdhf qkb

    Life is soup. I'm fork


  12. #1092

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    Changed my mind to ESE. Inferior Ti suits him better.
    It's that option for him I still have in mind. ESEs that go 'Betaish' are batshit, sorry not sorry.

    His father, Fred Trump, was obviously LSI and 'installed' a certain program in him, whatever his type is.

  13. #1093
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    SEE running on his father's Te.
    Te = business logic
    Ti = principles

    e_e Trump's Ti sucks dick. SAD!
    - LSI-H™ - Melancholic - 6w5-8-4 So/Sx - MBTI ISTP - Guardian Inspector ISTJ -

    The way is dark, the road is lost, my eyes they strain to see
    I struggle forth to find a friend to light the way for me
    Oh brothers can you hear my voice or am I all alone
    If there’s no fire to guide my way, then I will start my own!


  14. #1094

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    SEE running on his father's Te.
    Te = business logic
    Ti = principles

    e_e Trump's Ti sucks dick. SAD!
    Fred Trump was extremely Beta.


  15. #1095
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    Trump's "logic" really does just run in circles to the point of defeating itself (LOL! as he would say in a tweet) and he tends to rely more on "showmanship" when giving speeches than anything else. Te base would be much better at keeping their businesses afloat, instead he mainly tries to capitalize on opportunity and bank off of it. Se with demo Fe, Te HA, and shit Ti, yeah.

    I do think Gulenko typed him as SEE for a reason.


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  16. #1096

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    NPD obscurs his type, for me
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    You people need to stop absorbing the media image of the guy and actually look at how he moves, talks, and thinks. If there's no chance of him invading North Korea that's because he has people to talk him out of that, not necessarily because he thinks he's making an empty threat. He is certainly attuned to the power dynamics of face-to-face communication; by God, look at the 2016 debate footage where he made minced meat from the other Republican nominees. And his ability to read a crowd and manipulate it is phenomenal. It's unfortunate for him that whoever he hired to replace Steve Bannon as campaign manager is abysmal, but his Se and Fi skills are really apparent, or at least were. I think he's undergoing a cognitive decline that may make it more difficult to type him from how he seems now, but again, if you look at older footage of him, there's no question of his type.

    And if you think he's Ti-valuing I don't know what to tell you. Consistency and precision have always been complete non-issues for him. What he cares about is getting results.
    he has a personality disorder that allows him to do those things you're ascribing to SEE ability: NPD

    he might be SEE, but what you're describing, is NPD, imo
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

  18. #1098

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    NPD obscurs his type, for me
    His valuation of either Te or Ti is unclear, as he focuses on realizing Se and Fe, and any T is obscured. He doesn't seem to be following any data or facts, instead opts for some conspiracy theories and loooots of Fe/Ti-derivative 'arguments' (often manipulative).

    For me, it is clear that he seems to /value/ and seek for that Fe adoration by masses, alike to other Beta-ish 'dictators'. This sheer preference of Fe over Fi (it is pretty clear) signals he is an extroverted Fe/Ti valuer, because /if someone values Fe, they value Ti/. So either XLE or EXE just by that.

    SEEs don't value Fe, it is just there as their demonstrative function; it is not emphasized and is always, after all, secondary to creative Fi (whatever the subtype). Neither they follow or like LSIs (and Trump does follow his father, the only person he seems to respect and the very special person he wants to satisfy all his life). SEEs could become more 'Betaish', but not to that degree. And not by trying to copy some LSI's program (more like, EIE's).

  19. #1099

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    His valuation of either Te or Ti is unclear, as he focuses on realizing Se and Fe, and any T is obscured. He doesn't seem to be following any data or facts, instead opts for some conspiracy theories and loooots of Fe/Ti-derivative 'arguments' (often manipulative).

    For me, it is clear that he seems to /value/ and seek for that Fe adoration by masses, alike to other Beta-ish 'dictators'. This sheer preference of Fe over Fi (it is pretty clear) signals he is an extroverted Fe/Ti valuer, because /if someone values Fe, they value Ti/. So either XLE or EXE just by that.

    SEEs don't value Fe, it is just there as their demonstrative function; it is not emphasized and is always, after all, secondary to creative Fi (whatever the subtype). Neither they follow or like LSIs (and Trump does follow his father, the only person he seems to respect and the very special person he wants to satisfy all his life).
    There's a lot of good in this
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  20. #1100
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    SEE and those T who see him as T is because they are probably not T themselves.

  21. #1101
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    No results and the media is unusually quiet. Something is going on. Heard a rumor...

    Last edited by khcs; 11-05-2020 at 10:33 PM.
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  22. #1102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    Enneagram 3.
    Enneagram 8.


  23. #1103
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    Mentally ill/senile SLE

  24. #1104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Averroes View Post
    Mentally ill/senile SLE
    I still maintain that Trump is Ti PolR. There is no way in hell he has Ti creative.

    Actual SLE politician:

    - LSI-H™ - Melancholic - 6w5-8-4 So/Sx - MBTI ISTP - Guardian Inspector ISTJ -

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    I struggle forth to find a friend to light the way for me
    Oh brothers can you hear my voice or am I all alone
    If there’s no fire to guide my way, then I will start my own!


  25. #1105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    SEE and those T who see him as T is because they are probably not T themselves.
    I saw a documentary a few night ago where a young Trump said something like, everything was about building good relationships.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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  26. #1106

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    I still maintain that Trump is Ti PolR. There is no way in hell he has Ti creative.

    Actual SLE politician:

    There is no way he is Fi creative in his preference of Fe over Fi. This dude obviously wants Fe 'love me' feedback, to the point there is little 'logic' to his actions where he just seeks for twisted group approval. To that point. SEEs don't value Fe.

    There are those discussions pages ago, and solid arguments against SEE.


    Quote Originally Posted by nokomis, SLE
    What's really clinched Trump as a SLE in my mind is 1D Fi. He really does not know who to trust and is not confident in making decisions regarding that matter. He's constantly in a tug of war between various factions each trying to pull him in their own direction and he's constantly bouncing back and forth between them. And he seems to over-react to disloyalty. The whole concept of trust and loyalty seems to be a big black hole for him that's constantly frustrating him.
    Quote Originally Posted by echidna1000, ILE
    It's interesting how he [Gulenko] mentions Recep Tayyip Erdogan as being the 'calm, calculated' SLE he knows that Trump isn't. However, Erdogan would actually be LSI. There is a 'typing shift' with Gulenko where LSI becomes SLE and SLE becomes SEE, based on this idea that only SEEs are wildcards and SLEs must be calm and calculated just because they are Logical.
    Quote Originally Posted by nokomis, SLE
    It has nothing to do with being offensive. He's [Trump] just blind to the concept of personal loyalty. See the fact that he fired three campaign managers in a year; dropping them as soon as anything got turbulent. And he's on his second or third staff member for several key positions barely 100 days into his administration. Plus he routinely cycles between cursing someone out on Twitter and then a week later shaking their hand weeks later and calling them 'a great friend'. There's a long list of people he ripped apart on twitter during the campaign and then hired after getting elected. He just doesn't have an Fi bone in him.
    Quote Originally Posted by nokomis, SLE
    He [Trump] doesn't seem to befriend people easily though. It's all so superficial. It just doesn't seem like he has a close relationship with anyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand, ?
    Naw you're [squark, LSI] just looking at personal loyalty through Ti. SEEs heavily value loyalty and understand it, but via Fi, which looks different. Its more like "if so and so cheats with me they were never loyal to original spouse" therefore I'm doing spouse a favor by bringing this to everyone's attention sooner rather than later, because the only thing worse than being cheated on is being in a relationship with someone who is a cheater, but you don't know it, and are therefore stuck with them and not allowed to seek out something better (not to mention maybe the cheater deserves better, based on how he got roped into things to begin with, etc). from the point of view of Fi what the SEE is doing is consistent and good for all. Jung talks about it in Aion where the idea is there is an evolutionary advantage to "destroyers"--Shiva, et al. From their individual point of view what they are doing is justified in a Fi sense. Trump doesn't get any of this. Trump is not SEE.

    SEEs make enemies because 1) people don't get Fi and 2) SEE doesn't always make informed choices. (the above example is an "idealized" case; SEE needs to destroy "bad" not "good" things--marriage is not by definition one or the other. there is an analytic component that is required that they can fall down on). SEEs don't recognize the inherent force, i.e.: goodness of an established order for its own sake--it reserves for itself the right to make its own judgement and act accordingly. This creates enemies who see this as chaos--inherently evil--truth is its neither inherently good nor evil.

    Trump makes enemies because even when he has the information he doesn't process it in a way that tracks people's internal states according to Fi modes. In other words, he lacks empathy. SEEs problem is they overdo it or otherwise miss the mark, but are playing the right game. Trump's problem is he lacks the willingness or capacity to empathize and relies entirely on Ti constructs which can, when dealing with humans, be paradoxically inverted, which is why he can be offensive while trying to be inoffensive and vice versa (its not even the same sport). its knowledge of these idiosyncratic norms (Fi) that constitute respect for the human condition (Dostoevsky--the real one--has a lot to say about this) and the basis of empathy which he lacks. as far as he's concerned saying "great show" or whatever at the holocaust museum is a compliment etc etc

    As far as Trump is concerned he's in the unique position to pass judgement on the established order "as the king"--as the "rightful" head of the hierarchy. But SEE retains this right regardless of position. Their willingness to stand by their own judgements, they have in common, but its coming from democracy (Fi) in SEE and aristocracy (Ti) in SLE; hence there is some apparent overlap but that is where the similarities end (in other words, they both dispense commands/retain the initiative, that someone or other finds offensive, but that's about it).

    beta turning on Trump is precisely because they view every transgression to the field of Fe as being fundamentally equal and Trump is starting to disrupt the field to a greater degree than he's improving it and this is how Fe objectively assesses the effects a person is having on the world in lieu of Te; and once Trump loses that base he's got damn near no one left supporting him which means he's pretty much done (because he's certainly not improving the world in a Te sense except for a very limited company: big oil/insurance, russia, china, putin, etc)

    comparing trump at 70 to Handjob [a forumite] at 20 is just admitting the point that his Fi sucks. my Fe may be that of a 5 year old Fe dom's, that doesn't mean we're the same type. in fact it demonstrates the opposite

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange, LIE
    I agree with darya about Trump's Fi being below zero. Here is a quote on Trump's loyalty:

    "Too many people finally understand what Trump is really like. There is this storyline about Donald Trump, one longtime Trump watcher says, that he's a loyal guy. that he sticks with his old friends and defends them and supports them. "You have it all wrong: Trump is not loyal, except to his family. He can be solicitous and ingratiating. But if there's a moment you are not useful, forget it, you're done. No matter what you have done for him." Consider: Rudy Giuliani, Paul Manafort, Chris Christie."
    Quote Originally Posted by flames, EIE?
    I forgot to mention that he [Trump] is irrationally obsessed with his reputation in a way I haven't seen from any president before. Any time he is bad mouthed he will throw a fit on Twitter in such an immature way that an SEE wouldn't. SEE's care about what people think of them but they would never respond so childishly.
    Quote Originally Posted by darya, EIE
    Are you saying Trump's ideal mate should be Fe Polr ILI? That makes zero sense when you observe how he communicates with people. He needs a soft wife, like handjob said. The one who warmly blows on his ego and explains to him how he can improve on ethical ground etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by flames, EIE?
    No, he [Trump] doesn't care about facts period or want them (he rejects them when they are given to him and he wouldn't be so corrupt if he did seek them out). He is based wholly on untruths, if anything. He has a cringey Fe HA, IMO. His gestures and speech are made fun of all the time, so I don't think he has particularly good ethics in general. You can argue his behavior goes with Se and Te HA and Ti PoLR, but it does not go with Fi. At all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raver, IEE
    SEEs are good at getting people to like them even when they act like a douche. SLEs are not as good at this and can make a lot of enemies accidentally. Trump is a master at making enemies and his HA is quite blatant in how he behaves even when factoring in his narcissistic traits.
    Quote Originally Posted by Strangeling, IEI?
    What do people think Fi is anyway? That whole description of SEEs using people and throwing them away when they aren't useful anymore sounds extremely negative and biased, like someone got burned that way and now they believe that's the way they operate or something. It's just not true. In my experience, SEEs are a lot more conscientious, where SLEs are a lot more contentious. And I get it, people don't agree on this, but I'm not sure why it needs to be stated, unless people are looking at descriptions at face value and saying "Yeah, that sounds like Trump, so that must be his type"...Okay, but I don't see much value in doing that.
    Quote Originally Posted by dot, IEI
    I think Trump isn't an ethical type, because he doesn't seem to be AWARE of his emotional/ethical impact on people when it comes to the public's and personal values. Like he seems pretty clumsy. I can also ignore these things, but I am pretty much aware of what I am doing. Like how I look/ impact others in an ethical way.
    Quote Originally Posted by darya, EIE
    Exactly, he's [Trump] like a bull in a china shop - he's way too clumsy, stilted, unnatural and unaware of his emotional impact for SEE. It's not about being offensive, it's how he goes about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by flames, EIE?
    That can seem Fi at first glance, but he [Trump] is using it in an Fe way to get people riled up and have a group by his side. It's very transparent. Much of what he says isn't even what he personally believes, it's just to help him out.
    Quote Originally Posted by golden, EIE
    The complete lack of Fi gone to an ugly place is rather obvious, innit mate?
    Quote Originally Posted by Raver, IEE
    Some typing material for anyone that wants to get a good idea of how Trump was in the past in the 1980s. I think these videos are closer to his true type than how he acts now, which is almost a caricature at the moment. It's easy to get a false characterization of Donald Trump based on how he acts now where it's clear he exaggerates a lot of his behavior and it seems like he is not as cognitively sharp as he used to be for whatever reason.

    https://youtu.be/nAgJAxkALyc
    https://youtu.be/0-w47wgdhso
    https://youtu.be/jxNkMkAe7F0

    https://youtu.be/SEPs17_AkTII

    See your point in that this may be the real Trump and the 1980s Trump was just a facade so people would take him seriously and now that he's old, he's unveiled his true self because he doesn't care anymore. I prefer to see it as the current Trump is probably the old Trump stripped from rationality and reason due to some possible early stage of alzheimer and/or dementia so the new Trump is still Trump, but perhaps one unveiling himself at his more basic instinct so your point does hold water. I just think if you want to type him with the highest accuracy, you should at least look at both, his old self and new self because it's not like his type changed from the 1980s to now, but rather other personality characteristics that did.
    Quote Originally Posted by timber, ?
    TBH I love SEEs, even when they do all that silly braggadocios stuff. Trump doesn't have that interior ethics though, so that kind of rules ESFp out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Financial, LSI
    The argument for ESFp implies he does not value Ti or have strong Ti. As a figure who has contradicted himself nonstop, the ESFp rationale almost stands to reason.

    My argument for ESTp is that he's aware of many of his contradictions, but uses them to bait the media into giving him attention. In the aftermath, the media becomes exhausted, and he then has more leverage to depict the media as villainous to his base.

    Maggie Haberman, a New York Times and White House correspondent, gave a very impartial, in depth speech for C-SPAN about Trump's relationship with the media. I think her analysis supports my argument. I recommend people from every side of the aisle watch it because it sheds light on how some media outlets have overestimated him while others have underestimated him. If we nullify overestimation and underestimation of our candidates, then we edify our democratic decisions.

    https://youtu.be/rg4IqrIpuQU

    Shaky relationships like the ones Trump has are demonstrative of Fi PoLR.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Caan, ILI
    See this is where Socionics fails and where Jung is awesome.

    Trump is most likely a neurotic Se ego with no strong proclivities to either Ti or Fi.
    He's narcissistic and chaotic to the extreme. I mean, most of these arguments are "Trump isn't Ti, so he's Fi or Trump isn't Fi, so he's Ti". And typing someone as Fi valuing when they promote xenophobic messages, put down LBGT acceptance, and create an atmosphere of mistrust and dislike from the people and groups he originally sides with isn't at all a strength of strong Fi types. He shows a complete lack of understanding of another person's internalized feelings.

    But yeah, he does also show a pretty shitty Ti as well, making stupid conclusions and applying reason poorly. So naturally he's going to relate well to the neurotic subtypes - SEE-Se and SLE-Se. And they really aren't good representations of SEEs or SLEs, but reading over that, I see a lot more in the SLE-Se description that fits him.
    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW, LII
    The definitions are made to type psychological healty people, which D. Trump obiviously isn't. He is very narcissistic and also to some extent anti-social.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Caan, ILI
    well...that's maybe sometimes true for Delta Fi perhaps. But for Gamma it's a bit odd. Also, did you [Aylen] read the profiles? But what I'm saying is this.

    Scenario - https://www.10news.com/news/woman-wi...o-border-fence

    So...this woman scaled the barbed wire fence with her baby. In my mind, I thought man, she's that desperate to climb over a fence with her baby to get out of her country. It must be bad there. I was internalizing her experience without even really knowing her or why she did that. My mom's SLE husband said that she was a bad mother for taking her child like that over the fence and doesn't deserve anything for doing that; that she was just putting the baby in danger. I really thought that was a strange thing to say given the seeming desperation of somebody that does that, but from a Ti perspective, I suppose it's also true.

    so...I agree with you to a degree, but what I'm getting at is Trump seems to completely lack a theory of internalized feeling. I mean can you find anything that he has ever said that has pointed to him having some kind of understanding of people's internal Fi motivations? Everything he concludes and does seems to disregard how people personally feel and subjugate everything to an all-encompassing rule. Such as, everybody uses the gender bathroom they were assigned at birth (complete subjugation of Fi), or we need a wall to divide us from the bad Mexicans (are all or even most them bad though?, Trump doesn't care...), or excluding transgenders from the military because of the potential extra costs. I mean it just goes on and on. I've never heard one thing of Trump that showed he is even capable of asserting an understanding of another's subjective feelings.

    I mean look at this
    https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/...ting-nr-px.cnn

    He suggests bringing the death penalty back and making people pay the ultimate price. Arming people in the church and suggesting that we sidestep court proceedings to rush to punish. Where's the Fi? Did he think about the people in the church? The state of the shooter? Why any of it happens? Anything? Nah, he doesn't… how is that Fi?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Caan, ILI
    1. Trump clearly doesn't take his social relationships that seriously. His cabinet can't get away from him fast enough and even his own party is divided when it comes to him...he has to constantly remind people how much everyone likes him...and he's not well-liked by people that have personally dealt with him. For example, I read an account of a pilot for Air Force One that has flown with all the Presidents since Nixon and he says Trump is the only guy that wasn't friendly and was a real asshole, whereas all the President's before him, including Nixon had some kind of charisma or respect for other people...

    2. He's Se leading and pretty neurotic, so although "integrity" is important to SLE-Ti (I've heard the integrity speech from one before...) and probably LSIs as well, SLE-Se are quite a different animal...

    Trump just rattles off puerile conservatism in a way that's appealing to lemmings precisely because he lacks this awareness, and thus can utilize Fe in a more, shall we say, "varied" way. There's literally no internalized feeling involved in doing something like that...How is this not his flexible Ti, backed up by Fe?
    Quote Originally Posted by Raver, IEE
    Maybe his possible early stages of alzhemier or dementia has diminished his judgement functions to the point where he is merely left with pure raw Se to dominate his personality with little trace of Fi and Ti. I am being partly facetious with this statement in case you can't tell btw.

    Anyways, when you look at interviews of him when he is younger, he was easier to type and appeared to be more logical than ethical. I don't care what his type is anymore, his extreme overt narcissism overshadows his type anyways. He also looked like a covert narcissist when he was younger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Caan, ILI
    ...yeah, but I never said that. I'm saying that he never shows an ability to even do that... I keep asking, Where is the Fi? And everybody has something else they want to nitpick about what I'm saying...there own stereotype or something they concluded about a quadra, but where is the Fi?

    I mean look at this https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.aeecba51c4ef This was back in Feb 2018 on gun violence in schools... It's like a self-help pamphlet for somebody with zero empathy... why does he need a guide to make sure he hits all the right empathetic notes? I bet he's a lot more comfortable in his xenophobic rallies where he can generalize everything with logic and Fe...

    Like omg, I'd be a lot more comfortable if we'd just leave it at Se ego then, instead of misattributing him as Fi. It's just...meh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Financial, LSI
    https://youtu.be/7wFKKxcFxwY

    This doesn't point toward strong Fi whatsoever. Fi egos have a stronger grasp on who's actually "friend", and there's no way he actually has this many friendships with all these randos, so in aggregate, it doesn't support Fi.

    Rather, it shows that he wants to portray himself as likeable (Fe HA).
    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Financial, LSI
    I've been studying Jungian material for almost a decade. Trump doesn't have strong Fi, because if he did, then his relationships with people would have more solidity and his sense of loyalty wouldn't be so confused.

    Look at his administration. Staff go in and out like it's a revolving door because his attitude towards them lacks stability. This shows a poor grasp of psychological distance, an area where Fi egos are meant to excel.

    Look at his relationships with women, as well. Once again, they lack stability - once he wins over one woman, he's on to the next, employing any number of tactics that would probably make the average Fi ego puke.

    Dude's not an Fi ego.
    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Financial, LSI
    Trump is extremely tribal. He effectively divides the political landscape by deeming the media as the enemy. It's at that point that the electorate is discouraged from using their usual reference points for information, so people are left with a more personal reference point - their tribes (political parties, ideologically similar friends, etc.). The increase in tribalism was stimulated by the tone he has set since 2015 and even during the period in which he was airing the birther conspiracy theory. His base has characteristics of a kind of religion in which supporters engage in a kind of ritualistic back-and-forth with him, as seen in Trump rallies and on Twitter, again demonstrating the dynamics of tribalism. Since his candidacy, he has indulged specific demographics of people in the speeches he made off-the-cuff, reinforcing the tone of tribalism between one group and another. He largely appealed to demographics influenced by the Tea Party (those who felt disenfranchised by the Republican establishment), those who were religious, to whites, and to males.

    Sigh. Samson's point is essentially: "Trump doesn't pay heed to hierarchies, therefore, other factors considered, he's not a Beta."

    I counter by saying that it's not so consistent because he seems to have his own view of hierarchical structures in his attitudes about dictators and shit. He publicly praises people even at his own expense, implying that doesn't come from a place of opportunism, in contrast with what would be the case with SEE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy, ?
    I vacillated between SLE and SEE for him at first but now I really do believe he is SLE. At his core Trump is oriented around ideology and principles, not pragmatism and certainly nothing Fi related. His nationalistic ideals are hardcore beta and you can see much resemblance between him and Mussolini who is pretty much universally typed SLE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Caan, ILI
    And then I noticed he has nothing that I can see resembling an ability to utilize subjective feeling to understand, empathize, sympathize, or do anything remotely related to not being a piece of shit that uses and abuses people. And his xenophobia is a form of generalized thinking he uses to get people riled up with Fe, despite that most of what he says isn't even all that remotely true statistically or even contextually. There is no internalizing feeling whatsoever, unless it's in service of his ego. In which case, his feeling is incredibly shit for an SEE that is supposed to have some kind of charisma, even if they aren't always "good" with people and whatnot. And I'd be surprised if an SEE would consistently marginalize and label large groups of people as bad when the facts show them that is false. An SEE wouldn't get into politics on a message like that.

    It's like emotional intelligence; he doesn't have it; he's hugely disagreeable; the only feeling he has is when his ego is attacked and then it's still just about him. And we're typing him Fi? Like holy shit, really?

    Fi is subjective, so of course I don't know her [woman in the story] feelings. But the point I was making is that I internalized it, whereas the SLE internalized it with logic. And people who are good at internalizing with feeling become good at understanding what people really are feeling. It's the same with Ti; a good Ti user becomes good at understanding the subjective logic of other people. It doesn't mean they can mind-read.

    And no, for the SEE backers, posting Gulenko's shit and biased and un-nuanced descriptions aren't good arguments. He clearly has a very negative view of Fi. And it shows...now I get where all this is coming from. Fucking Gulenko does it again.

    That [linked description by Filatova, EII] paints a picture of someone that has emotional intelligence, someone who can play on other's emotions in a positive way. Somebody who is also naturally sympathetic. More of a diplomat and entertainer/performer. Not the negative picture that Gulenko paints of a ruthless businessman that doesn't think about other people or care and is just in it for their usefulness in making money or whatever and then dumps them...it's just wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raver, IEE
    I've met several SEEs that are narcissistic or sociopathic and they don't act anything like Trump as they can be ruthless like him, but they have this charisma, likability and closeness that Trump lacks and Trump tries to compensate this with his Fe HA, but it only really works on like minded individuals who share his beliefs and the rest find him insufferable.On the other hand, Trump does act quite a lot similarly to narcissistic and sociopathic SLEs I have known generally speaking. Trump gets by on his strong Se mostly and haphazardly uses his Fe HA to navigate ethical and social issues and blunders frequently in a way only an Fi PoLR can IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Financial, LSI
    If he was SEE, he would be mobilized by factual information produced by those in his administration and those in other stations - data would give him leverage to act with greater efficiency in pursuit of his cause. We wouldn't be having this perennial focus on "fact checking" because he would eventually give more credence to external sources.

    A person who values facts, who's hidden agenda is "to know", does not paint intelligence agencies as villains or ignore their input. They seek out intelligence from others in order to work at full capacity. I can only picture Trump, when working with an ILI, disregarding a substantial portion of the ILI's input because ILI's data is tethered to external factors. In contrast, I can picture Trump working with an IEI to greater effect because Trump feeds off of positive support at his rallies etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oppai Anschluss, Beta ST
    His habit of going to bat for his people in the face of controversy and bad press as a default and as long as they are loyal to him, and then immediately being done with them as soon as they show hints of disloyalty screams vulnerable Fi and matches up with SLE first-hand descriptions of how Fi PoLR is experienced. Also all his twitter shenanigans and how often he has been duped into letting people against him into his administration.

    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...E_observations
    Quote Originally Posted by Investigator, ILI
    Point 1: SEE are most likely to listen to advice (though victories must be credited to them) while SLE wants everything to be accomplished by their own hands. Remember, the whole premise of duality is that types’ behaviour is catered to their duals. SEE’s behaviour is catered towards ILI ‘s and one of the ILI’s greatest talents is to be a strategic and wise consigliere. While SLE’s behaviour is catered towards IEI’s where the IEI claims the role of being a person’s psychologist and spiritual guide (2D Ti makes sure this type of advice does not sound like dogmatic garbage, but at the same time not too theoretical so still well received by the down to the earth pragmatic SLE). If Donald Trump was a SEE, he would not be so quick to dismiss others (or even fire them). To be a SLE’s advisor you: can’t be too outspoken, can’t be too involved/hands-on, always passively agree even if you may not agree (definitely not an ILI trait), and when you do disagree strongly you have to take the role of a diplomat and guide the SLE to your point without saying their wrong to not appear like your commiting insubordination (which the SLE is very sensitive about). While SEE’s knows there might be holes in their reasoning and plans (SLE’s are less likely to have these holes as a logical type) and they realize advice to correct these mistakes may not “sound nice”, but that doesn’t bother them (catering to the critical ILI).

    Point 2: There is a complete lack of the kindness or care for looking kind that you would never see in SEE’s. Don’t get me wrong, SEE’s care about being a strong leader who knows how to take care of “business.” However, they also love being praised for their kindness and benevolence. SEE’s would use these positive sentiments to manage (or based on who you talk to, they manipulate) their people. Whereas, the SLE doesn’t care about appearing nice; they want to be seen as a leader with absolute control. Instead of manipulating emotions, they “may” (not all the time) manipulate appearance of facts as they are a very witty/quick on their feet. Donald Trump flexes this skill a lot and is able convince people of lies and/or half truths; from cold businessmen (Art of the Deal) to voters. When he is called out for being racist or just mean he is unaffected with not even the afterthought of giving small apology to appease the people who scream he is immoral. Remember, SLE only really care about the end result. This non-PC behaviour really moved a nation who was sick of leaders/representatives playing politics while recieving tax payers’ money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Investigator, ILI
    Se- is very eager is obtain results (Result version of Se). It sees an opportunity and wants to immediately pounce on it. Donald Trump life can be summarized with those two sentences. This is why he seems to have a variety of ambitions. If he sees potential, he must try an actualize it. Whether that be casinos, real estate, show business, or capitalizing on the emotional state of the country. He wants to be constantly winning. If he was Se+, his initiatives would seem to have a lot more focus (the thing I love about my SEE duals). A good example of a SLE would be a very successful British youtuber KSI. He started in youtube, but wanted to “conquer” music, but then he saw an opportunity in getting sucess in doing boxing. SLE’s always are throwing themselves into the mix, while letting their wit and business logic guide them through the chaos. If you want to be poetic, Se- wants to be a conqueror while Se+ wants to be a king.

    Donald Trump fits the mold of a conqueror of many spheres (result Se) than a king with an absolute hold on his assets who slowly (slower than a SLE) builds his treasury (process Se). Again, look at his business empire. He had faced many debt issues due to over diversity. Trump’s businesses now survive primarily on brand recognitions. Many big businesses benefit from brand recognition; so much so that it has book value for accountants (it’s technical name is goodwill). Other businesses see the value and purchase the brand name for a limited or indefinite period in order to add value to their products. However, a business should not be surviving on goodwill alone and goes towards the faulty empire talk earlier. Meanwhile a SEE (Richard Branson) founded business in Virgin Group Ltd. made sure that it was a slow build with the guidance of their SEE CEO, making sure it took care of debts and bankruptcies in a proper manner instead of just trying to power through (as it is all about the process for him).
    Quote Originally Posted by Protozoa, ?
    Trump is often very brutal and blunt before all else. He has a history of getting rid of people and/or pushing them away when they are no longer useful to him or when they threaten him in some way. He seems to lack empathy for individuals or see them as such (although he's very good at appealing to ideas of group or categorical morality on some abstract level -> Fe/Ti) and needs constant assurance that people are loyal to him because of it; and when they stop being useful to him in some way or they threaten him, he dumps and denounces them without much care. He seems to naturally lack the kind of sensitivity of higher order Fi, a function that is both abstract and implied, neither of which he seems to understand very much when he demands constant assurance of loyalties and thinks it's okay to be a douche to people if they are of no value to him. His Te is essentially utilitarian and he doesn't seem to care much for the individual that's impacted by his decisions; and he's only loyal to someone if they serve his purpose, yet he demands unwavering loyalty from others.

    I think he uses Se, Te, and Fe a lot and seems to have no problem compartmentalizing everyone into categories and dealing with them that way -> Ti. But he doesn't seem to value separating people from their categories and thinking about them as individuals. It's not really his proclivity, although I'm sure there are instances of him trying to make a good pre-conceived effort to do so (which is arguably a super-ego thing to do), but when he's threatened or under pressure, he has no problem putting people into political categories and fueling the political charge. I guess what I'm saying is, I could probably make a case for him as SEE by cherry-picking parts of the theory that fit, finding reasons why he can't be SLE, and pulling things he's done or said out of context to paint his behavior a certain way, but in the end is that truly compelling? I mean he may not fit a caricature of a self-composed SLE that thinks everything through in calculated logical detail, but both SEE and SLE have neurotic Se and would be impulsive and not think things through all that much by the nature of their implied neurosis. So it kind of seems an irrelevant thing to constantly point out and argue.

    I guess my main issue really with this whole thing isn't the argument for SEE or SLE, but how masterfully Trump categorizes people into certain groups and then he deals with them that way. It has been the center-piece of his campaign strategy to create these divisions and put people into camps in order to deal with them and it's not something I've gotten from SEEs. Its an aristocratic thinking that I've recognized from SLEs and that's mainly what feels so off about an SEE typing, not to say that you won't find an SLE typing off for other reasons. SLEs are supposedly aristocratic according to reinin and it's something I've found true as well. Isn't this a pretty big discrepancy? He's not even really in between on this one. He's far aristocratic. And SEE is democratic.
    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds, SLE
    Not true. You can also look at it [Trump's behavior] as simply not caring about honesty, which perfectly matches the idea of a narcissistic and sociopathic Fi polr. Fe HA matches the idea of enjoying popularity as “bread and butter” even more perfectly, too. Remember that HA is considered the “most limiting” function. It is far more likely for a logical type to “ignore” his ethical side/information, rather than the other way around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave, LIE
    He [Trump] constructs his own reality in his head, his system. If anything doesn't fit into this system, it's somehow not his fault. This is a congitive trait I have seen in less balanced SLEs and ILEs. SEEs are alot "touchier". Trump can be defensive but look what he is always defensive about - facts not registering with his system (his system being part of his ego). SEEs are socially alot "smoother" and much more conflict averse. They are afraid of offending others. Others' feelings are important to them. Not to Donald J Trump.
    Quote Originally Posted by peteronfireee, LSI
    What did u think about his actual content during the debates? (not his Se / interruption tactics ) Did they seem incoherent / Ti-PoLR to u? He talks faster than he thinks at times, and yeah i get that it's brash and it gets him into trouble, but his reasoning is pretty coherent IMO - he could backup why he believed in X or why he didn't believe in Y, pretty clearly. He trolls because one would be at a disadvantage to simply use logic. He pulls out the same tactics as the left because he's familiar with them and evens the playing field
    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia, ILI
    For me, it is clear that he seems to /value/ and seek for that Fe adoration by masses, alike to other Beta-ish 'dictators'. This sheer preference of Fe over Fi (it is pretty clear) signals he is an extroverted Fe/Ti valuer, because /if someone values Fe, they value Ti/. So either XLE or EXE just by that.



  27. #1107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    SEE and those T who see him as T is because they are probably not T themselves.
    Shall someone really list all people voting for SLE (or Fe/Ti for him, as I do) in this thread/pool? Okay.

    People who voted SLE for Trump include: Adam Strange (tho he changes his typing back and forth - he is LIE), Smilex (LSE), Director Abbie (LSE), Myst (LSI), sbbds (SLE), peteronfireee (LSI), Cybel (SLI), Jack Oliver Aaron (ILE), qaz00 (SLI), thehotelambush (LII), mfckrz/Ashton (LIE), xerxe (ILE), Contra (ILI), The Exception (LII), para (SLI), Alonzo (LIE), Cosmic Teapot (SLI), Jerdle (ILE), 1981slater (ILE), Investigator (ILI), ghost of forum past (LII), Anglas (although he voted 'everything but not Gamma' - LIE), Petter (ILI), PussyInASacrophagus (SLE), SheMaverick (LIE), ragnar (ILI), Desert Financial (LSI), Jarno (ILI), soundofconfusion (LII), Whoobie77 (ILI), mu4 (ILE), Dalek Caan (ILI), Zero (LIE) and more. In addition, SnatchYourWeave (SLE) types Trump LIE. This list includes people who type others professionally or were professionally typed. People who know Russian typists' like Gulenko personally. Are they all 'probably not T themselves'?


    (and there is more people - who type themselves T - who type him SLE on discords or sedecology, but I guess those are also impostors)

  28. #1108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    Shall someone really list all people voting for SLE (or Fe/Ti for him, as I do) in this thread/pool? Okay.

    People who voted SLE for Trump include: Adam Strange (tho he changes his typing back and forth - he is LIE), Smilex (LSE), Director Abbie (LSE), Myst (LSI), sbbds (SLE), peteronfireee (LSI), Cybel (SLI), Jack Oliver Aaron (ILE), qaz00 (SLI), thehotelambush (LII), mfckrz/Ashton (LIE), xerxe (ILE), Contra (ILI), The Exception (LII), para (SLI), Alonzo (LIE), Cosmic Teapot (SLI), Jerdle (ILE), 1981slater (ILE), Investigator (ILI), ghost of forum past (LII), Anglas (although he voted 'everything but not Gamma' - LIE), Petter (ILI), PussyInASacrophagus (SLE), SheMaverick (LIE), ragnar (ILI), Desert Financial (LSI), Jarno (ILI), soundofconfusion (LII), Whoobie77 (ILI), mu4 (ILE), Dalek Caan (ILI), Zero (LIE) and more. In addition, SnatchYourWeave (SLE) types Trump LIE. This list includes people who type others professionally or were professionally typed. People who know Russian typists' like Gulenko personally. Are they all 'probably not T themselves'?


    (and there is more people - who type themselves T - who type him SLE on discords or sedecology, but I guess those are also impostors)

    This is why I rarely vote in polls here. I don't want it held against me if I change my mind. I haven't changed my mind on Trump though and I knew I wouldn't so I clicked. To be fair some of the people who voted have changed their minds and said so in this thread or on discord.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    This is why I rarely vote in polls here. I don't want it held against me if I change my mind. I haven't changed my mind on Trump though and I knew I wouldn't so I clicked. To be fair some of the people who voted have changed their minds and said so in this thread or on discord.
    I've checked so far (I always do my methodology) and people who changed their minds publicly include Adam (listed, as he seems to change it back and forth, sorry Adam), Comatose Lamiac 007 (not listed because of that), WinnieW (not sure whether they did even - not listed) and shotgunfingers (not listed). Some of listed typings are pretty recent (from 'newer' forum members). If there is an error or someone wants to hop in, ping me. I also didn't list all people available in that pool (Fuzzy (SLI) and so on).

    I didn't list people who were unsure of their type (Bertrand?, Aramas, Protozoa, queentiger and so on) and/or changed it a lot or are pretty controversial/lol (Kill4Me). I also didn't include people from sedecology, and 'I don't do discords' so no data here.

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    Duschia=


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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    I've checked so far (I always do my methodology) and people who changed their minds publicly include Adam (listed, as he seems to change it back and forth, sorry Adam), Comatose Lamiac 007 (not listed because of that), WinnieW (not sure whether they did even - not listed) and shotgunfingers (not listed). Some of listed typings are pretty recent (from 'newer' forum members). If there is an error or someone wants to hop in, ping me. I also didn't list all people available in that pool (Fuzzy (SLI) and so on).

    I didn't list people who were unsure of their type (Bertrand?, Aramas, Protozoa, queentiger and so on) and/or changed it a lot or are pretty controversial/lol (Kill4Me). I also didn't include people from sedecology, and 'I don't do discords' so no data here.
    @Duschia, when I first stated that I thought Trump was SLE, it was because I didn't think he was LIE, which was another popular opinion being advanced. Trump's lies about his business skills were not widely known then, and a lot of people associate business skills with LIE, when Trump's skills extend only to playing a successful businessman on a highly scripted TV program. At the time, I think I said that he had zero Ni.

    I have since reconsidered my original SLE opinion in light of my knowing more SLE's and SEE's better in real life, and I now think he's an SEE who is really, really unhealthy.

    I'm unlikely to change my opinion again, since Trump has such good relations with ILI's Barr and Kim Jong Un.

    But yeah, I have changed my mind about the sociotype of some people whom I've known for a long time, as more evidence comes in and my first impressions were shown to be incorrect.

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    I went ahead and voted for Trump (his type). Go ahead and use it against me or drag me into things in anyway you can. Would be interesting.


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    SEE has to be his typing because the bar for SEE is orange/yellow, just like him. The SLE bar is blue and he's not a Democrat, nor does he have "blue veins" running through his body. That man is a reptilian cyborg through and through.

    Case closed!



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    I think it's interesting that self-typed SEEs have little to say about Trump. Does that mean they silently agree or do they disagree and don't see it worth talking about? Curious...usually when people relate with something, even if it's bad, they like to point it out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    I think it's interesting that self-typed SEEs have little to say about Trump. Does that mean they silently agree or do they disagree and don't see it worth talking about? Curious...usually when people relate with something, even if it's bad, they like to point it out.
    This is a whole can of worms worth opening on the site that would lead to a lot of interesting and enlightening viewpoints, imo.


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    Lol, why are we even taking Donald Trump's typing personally!?!? WTF. Who cares if he's SEE or SLE. None of us are going to have the pleasure of getting up close and personal with him... Anyhoo. No one is stupid for thinking either way... It comes down to a matter of interpretation. And it shouldn't be seen as a personal slight against Gamma or Beta. The dude is just a person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    I think it's interesting that self-typed SEEs have little to say about Trump. Does that mean they silently agree or do they disagree and don't see it worth talking about? Curious...usually when people relate with something, even if it's bad, they like to point it out.
    When I see LIE's behaving badly, I am shocked and dismayed at the depths to which my sociotype can sink. I am aware that my sociotype has certain inherent characteristics which, when amplified by circumstance or poor ethical preparation or awareness, can lead to incredibly toxic and disappointing behavior.

    I doubt if I'm alone in those feelings.

    This is why many descriptions of the types distinguish between various "health levels".

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    This forum is indeed funny. Poeple who type themselves as Fi Quadras and claim Fe is the source of conformity are the only ones I have seen use census as an argument that something is correct. "See? The majority agrees!" or the "the T types agree". For the record I don't think any Quadra is at fault. It's just individuals. I just think it's hypocritical to claim something for yourself for no reason and still fail to live up to your own hype.

    This is directed at both Duschia and Tommy, just to clear any confusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    I think it's interesting that self-typed SEEs have little to say about Trump. Does that mean they silently agree or do they disagree and don't see it worth talking about? Curious...usually when people relate with something, even if it's bad, they like to point it out.
    I might be SEE.

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    Typical SEE reactive stuff from him IM(NotHumble)O. He just does it worse than most SEE's. Anyway it is funny how I relate to his "train of thought" from super ego perspective although "thought" is here used very loosely. This is Reinin symmetry related. Let's say that his role Ne tricks him a lot.
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