Offensive description of LIE-ENTj

[Expat]

If you had to sum LIEs up in two words, they would be insecurity -- and greed -- actually, make it just one word, since their greed derives from their insecurity. Not insecurity as to what they can accomplish on their own, or what they know: they are very secure about crap like that. Insecurity as to other people, how others see them. Far more than the LII or the ILI, the LIE is the workaholic nerd who eagerly studies and/or works hard and accumulates knowledge, and wealth, in the sad hope that that will help him get that one girl he's been admiring since kindergarten - only to have her laugh at him as she goes for the jock who kicks sand in the LIE's eyes on the beach. And why shouldn't she? While the jock will instinctively understand what the girl wants, the LIE will try to, well, do things for her, be helpful with her homework, enter into a 2-hour digression on the economic structure of the town of Dead Man's Creek, Arizona, because she happened to mention she stopped there once to get gas. Such a futile quest can never stop, which is why even multi-millionaire LIEs will then go for something else - like politics, or establish some foundation, or whatever. But they will never be able to get as much contentment and relaxation as the SLI when he's working on his garden. The LIE will die without having ever lived. Whenever you meet a LIE, no matter what his status in life, remember this: he has never arrived.

[hellothere]

[Expat]

It is very mean, but maybe gender-biased. I'm trying to think of a female version for the bit about that person you've admired forever.

That's easy -- pointlessly hoping that some day, some guy will approach her doing something else other than bragging about how good he's in sports, how attractive he is to girls generally, and how much beer he can drink.

[Expat]

Okay, then: finding such a guy who's still available.

[Expat]

"no-one" likes smart/nerdy girls.

Ah yeah. And those who do, are already taken by less smart girls.

[marooned]

I find your offensive descriptions more sad than offensive (perhaps it's the same in a way).

The EIE one was sad because it's a person without a self, or sense of themselves...

The LIE one was sad because it's a person who dies without ever having "lived" because they miss the moments.

Maybe they're more like deep central worries inside of types... I can imagine that the fear of dying without having lived might go quite well with Ni in the ego block (unvalued and neglected Si), but I could see it being the most central to TeNi. The worry of never knowing who you are, trying to find it, when it seems you only play parts might resonate with both Beta NFs (though is likely more central to EIE).

I suppose that's why they're "offensive," as they point out deep fears that might go with types, things that hit you rather hard then, as you fear it is true.

Or something.

[Ezra]

Expat, perhaps the jock could be an SEE, with his charming Fi. Or maybe the SLE, who once bullied the poor little guy, and then, with poor Ni, comes running to him for job when he's 40, only to be turned down.

To look at it optimistically, okay, the LIE has a teenagehood of hell, but once he's up there, 'you little airhead sports excellence kids will be working for me now, heh heh heh heh'.

It pays to be the one who gets the best of both worlds i.e. me. I was neither bullied, nor will I be working for anyone.

"All the nice guys are married or gay"?

Thank YOU, I will take credit for that quote.

"no-one" likes smart [...] girls.

That's a lie.

[Joy]

Yes, I'm a "nerd", and yes I see it as one of my more desirable qualities. Of course, most guys wouldn't think so, but doesn't matter because there will be guys that do. (I can't be compatible with everyone, after all.)

To look at it optimistically, okay, the LIE has a teenagehood of hell, but once he's up there, 'you little airhead sports excellence kids will be working for me now, heh heh heh heh'.

When I was having trouble with a LSE manager I was said "She can write me up if she wants to. It won't matter when she's writing her rent check out to me." (I'm guessing someone told her I said that, too, because she went from being sort of irritated with me to hating me not long after that.)

[Joy]

If you had to sum LIEs up in two words, they would be insecurity -- and greed -- actually, make it just one word, since their greed derives from their insecurity. Not insecurity as to what they can accomplish on their own, or what they know: they are very secure about crap like that. Insecurity as to other people, how others see them. Far more than the LII or the ILI, the LIE is the workaholic nerd who eagerly studies and/or works hard and accumulates knowledge, and wealth, in the sad hope that that will help him get that one girl he's been admiring since kindergarten - only to have her laugh at him as she goes for the jock who kicks sand in the LIE's eyes on the beach.

I must disagree with this.

(btw, if this is how others see LIE's it's no wonder there are people who insist that LIE's are enneagram 6's)

[Joy]

"All the nice guys are married or gay"?

But there is an issue of rejection in your description as well, and I guess even if the specifics are gender-biased it still works -- "no-one" likes smart/nerdy girls.

Ah yeah. And those who do, are already taken by less smart girls.

And they're probably prettier, too.

wtf's going on here? Please tell me this entire exchange was sarcastic. And that this whole thread is just a parody of machintruc's extremely inaccurate "offensive descriptions" and you two don't actually think that this is genuinely "the bad side" of LIE's.

[FDG]

Yes it's a parody Joy.

[Joy]

This thread is making want to try to impersonate a Se type.

Yes it's a parody Joy.

What I meant to ask was if it was purposely inaccurate.

It's obviously not a "bad side", just a pathetic side.

LIEs are obviously not as pathetic as the description indicates -- as it is a deliberately offensive one, and exaggerated for effect -- but there is some truth to it.

There's some truth the second part, but the stuff I quoted earlier... That sounds like the perspective of someone who does not understand LIE's at all. Except the part about liking the same person for years and not doing anything about it, including moving on if that is all that can be done. There may be LIE's who do that, but it is not a type trait, even from an exaggerated, deliberately offensive perspective.

Also, LIE insecurity is not the result of caring what others think of him/her. It's the result of worrying about not being able to take care of him/herself and him/her family.

Also, yes -- the exchange was not totally serious.

Better not be! One of my favorite quotes is "it's not what you wear, it's how you wear it". For an intelligent person of either gender, the challenge should not be finding someone who is interested in them and appreciates (or doesn't mind?) their intelligence. It should be finding someone who is intelligent enough for them. If you genuinely think of yourself as being highly desirable, others will be drawn to you.

Life is in many ways like watching television. You can only see what you're tuned in to. Those who expect to see disappointment and negative circumstances are tuning into disappointment and negative circumstances, so disappointment and negative circumstances are all that they're going to see. They'll tell you that life is nothing but disappointment and negative circumstances, and for them it is. What they fail to recognize is that there are people who expect to see opportunities and positive circumstances, and as a result, that is what they experience.

My point is that if you experience situations like the ones described in this thread, it is because that is what you are intending to experience, whether you enjoy it or not.

[Expat]

There's some truth the second part, but the stuff I quoted earlier... That sounds like the perspective of someone who does not understand LIE's at all. Except the part about liking the same person for years and not doing anything about it, including moving on if that is all that can be done. There may be LIE's who do that, but it is not a type trait, even from an exaggerated, deliberately offensive perspective.

It's an extreme exaggeration of Victim + dual-seeking. How many people actually do that? Besides, he was "doing" something -- he was droning on about Dead Man's Creek, Arizona.

Also, LIE insecurity is not the result of caring what others think of him/her. It's the result of worrying about not being able to take care of him/herself and him/her family.

Joy, you're making it too complicated.

Super-id: your insecure bit, where you need help from others
Fi dual-seeking: connected not to any "others", but to specific persons
Se HA: to want to accumulate wealth, etc, so "greed".

[Minde]

Se HA: to want to accumulate wealth, etc, so "greed".

So an ISFj's supposed to make you wealthy?

[Ezra]

(btw, if this is how others see LIE's it's no wonder there are people who insist that LIE's are enneagram 6's)

Very good point, Joy.

Maybe Expat is right though. Maybe, for once, you are wrong. Maybe I am also right - LIEs are 6s.

THANK YOU.

[Expat]

Maybe Expat is right though. Maybe, for once, you are wrong. Maybe I am also right - LIEs are 6s.

Yes, I am indeed right. I am right in saying that Fi PoLR types are inclined to see Fi dual-seeking as 6. I said that since Gilly and I met in Berlin and he came with the 6 idea, and I have told you this before, Ezra.

[Minde]

If you had to sum LIEs up in two words, they would be insecurity -- and greed -- actually, make it just one word, since their greed derives from their insecurity. Not insecurity as to what they can accomplish on their own, or what they know: they are very secure about crap like that. Insecurity as to other people, how others see them. Far more than the LII or the ILI, the LIE is the workaholic nerd who eagerly studies and/or works hard and accumulates knowledge, and wealth, in the sad hope that that will help him get that one girl he's been admiring since kindergarten - only to have her laugh at him as she goes for the jock who kicks sand in the LIE's eyes on the beach. And why shouldn't she? While the jock will instinctively understand what the girl wants, the LIE will try to, well, do things for her, be helpful with her homework, enter into a 2-hour digression on the economic structure of the town of Dead Man's Creek, Arizona, because she happened to mention she stopped there once to get gas. Such a futile quest can never stop, which is why even multi-millionaire LIEs will then go for something else - like politics, or establish some foundation, or whatever. But they will never be able to get as much contentment and relaxation as the SLI when he's working on his garden. The LIE will die without having ever lived. Whenever you meet a LIE, no matter what his status in life, remember this: he has never arrived.

How is this supposed to be offensive?

[Expat]

How is this supposed to be offensive?

maybe it describes a LSE then.

[Minde]

maybe it describes a LSE then.

So Ashton was right after all!

Seriously speaking, though, from Joy's response maybe it's a better description of Te-LIE than of Ni-LIE.

EDIT: I love how you all answered me seriously (except for Expat). Thank you.

[Joy]

How is this supposed to be offensive?

It sounds like a Fe, Fi, Si, and Se hit. Fe because it says that LIE's care how others see them. Fi because the LIE is alone. Si because the LIE can't rest (I didn't find that part offensive, that's just the reality of things). Se because the LIE in the description needs to develop some confidence like a starving person needs food.

[Ezra]

wtf's going on here? Please tell me this entire exchange was sarcastic. And that this whole thread is just a parody of machintruc's extremely inaccurate "offensive descriptions" and you two don't actually think that this is genuinely "the bad side" of LIE's.

What's the matter Joy; afraid to admit you're a nerd?

This thread is making want to try to impersonate a Se type.

I dunno Joy, maybe you are one.

Also, LIE insecurity is not the result of caring what others think of him/her. It's the result of worrying about not being able to take care of him/herself and him/her family.

Now you're just trying to shift the tables in your favour.

Seriously speaking, though, from Joy's response maybe it's a better description of Te-LIE than of Ni-LIE.

Or Joy isn't an LIE. After all, Salawa was fine with it, and she's a LIE-Ni.