View Poll Results: what was his type?

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  • ILE (ENTp)

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  • SEI (ISFp)

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  • ESE (ESFj)

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  • LII (INTj)

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  • SLE (ESTp)

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  • IEE (ENFp)

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Thread: Grigori Yefimovich Rasputin

  1. #1

    Default Grigori Yefimovich Rasputin

    I am curious. Type?






    Last edited by silke; 07-12-2018 at 09:39 AM. Reason: updated links
    Classical socionics: (), ILI-Ni
    Dual-type theory: INTp-ENTp

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    Looks like an IJ to me. Certainly rational. ESI or EII, perhaps?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Looks EIE to me
    INFp

    If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)



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    I've always wondered what his type was. One of the most fascinating figures in European history. He comes across as the MArylin Manson of Tsarist Russia to me, for some reason.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wittmont View Post
    Looks EIE to me
    You know, he reminded me briefly of an EIE actor whose name I couldn't put my finger on (Gangs of New York, Priest Vallon), so I wouldn't count this out at all.
    Last edited by Gilly; 12-29-2007 at 12:11 AM.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  6. #6
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    I've always wondered what his type was. One of the most fascinating figures in European history. He comes across as the MArylin Manson of Tsarist Russia to me, for some reason.
    Another probable EIE, IMO.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    EIE fits pretty well, I think, considering the mystic persona and his tendency not to bathe regularly.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I'm not opposed.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    He reminds me a lot of Tony Mowbray, a sports coach (who has an ISTj sidekick)







    Mowbray is very sensitive to moods and feels in his team and from fans. He wants to build a positive mood. When he first came some people thought he was a bit of a muppet (he is anything but). He is charismatic and a great leader and motivator. There is steel in him that is perhaps not appartent at first glance. In interviews he rarely looks directly at the camera or the interviewer (unless he really wants to stress a point) but glances all over the place which can make him seem soft (which he most definitely is not). He is very articulate (even verbose). He is a living legend in his hometown and fast becoming one where he is now.

    His fighting face:




    I can well imagine Rasputin being similar to this guy.
    Last edited by Wittmont; 12-29-2007 at 03:27 PM.
    INFp

    If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)



  10. #10

    Default

    Hmmm. Interesting responses. I always thought of Rasputin as a mildly deranged EII. He does seem as if he has in his ego block, but as stated, he simultaneously seems to fit the IJ temperament rather well.
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    Rasputin is INFJ, I now agree, the Tony guy is INTP by the way IMO, although INFJ is possible for him too.
    fiona

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian2 View Post
    Rasputin is INFJ, I now agree, the Tony guy is INTP by the way IMO, although INFJ is possible for him too.
    Hmm, Tony is a proud warrior, very passionate, a leader and a revolutionary. Very ambitious. Hates to lose, he is "flat" and speaks in monotone when he does lose. His moods influence people around him. He is legendary for being at his best when the going gets tough. He gets comments along the lines that if there was war he'd be the first guy they'd have in the foxhole next to him. Yet he is a very private family man too. Very soft spoken in interviews (depending on mood, sometimes he almost mumbles) unless agitated. Never gives a simple yes or no answer, but has long answers to the most basic questions. Can have a very dry and cutting humour if irritated. He is extremely focused on unity and a positive environment, he gets rid of people with issues and agendas other than those he approve of.

    I don't see very much INTp or INFj in him. I'd say he is definitely beta.

    The reason I associate Rasputin with him, beside the visual likeness, is this dichotomy between softspokeness, a calm demeanor and extreme passion and charisma that moves people. He prefers to work in private, he gets his work done behind closed doors, yet can be a front line leader and firebrand if pressed. I think Rasputin was similar, charismatic yet hard to pin down. Tony would make for an excellent religious leader or mystic if he was so inclined. Ah yes Tony is a teetotaller too and very religious I just remembered when I wrote that heh.
    INFp

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  13. #13
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    Default Grigori Yefimovich Rasputin




    Born during the second half of the 18th century, Grigori Rasputin was a religious Russian mystic purported to have healing and prophetic powers. The uncertain details of his death in 1916 paint him as something immortal or close to it, adding to his already well-established mystic persona.



    LAST PROPHETIC LETTER OF THE HOLY MAN GRIGORI RASPUTIN


    “I feel that I shall leave life before January 1st. I wish to make known to the Russian people, to Papa (the Tsar), to the Russian Mother (the Tsarina) and to the Children what they must understand. If I am killed by common assassins, and especially by my brothers the Russian peasants, you, the Tsar of Russia, will have nothing to fear for your children, they will reign for hundreds of years. But if I am murdered by boyars, nobles, and if they shed my blood, their hands will remain soiled with my blood for twenty-five years and they will leave Russia. Brothers will kill brothers, and they will kill each other and hate each other, and for twenty-five years there will be no peace in the country. The Tsar of the land of Russia, if you hear the sound of the bell which will tell you that Grigori has been killed, you must know this: if it was your relations who have wrought my death, then none of your children will remain alive for more than two years. And if they do, they will beg for death as they will see the defeat of Russia, see the Antichrist coming, plague, poverty, destroyed churches, and desecrated sanctuaries where everyone is dead. The Russian Tsar, you will be killed by the Russian people and the people will be cursed and will serve as the devil’s weapon killing each other everywhere. Three times for 25 years they will destroy the Russian people and the orthodox faith and the Russian land will die. I shall be killed. I am no longer among the living. Pray, pray, be strong, and think of your blessed family.”


    Prophesy by the Holy Man Grigori Rasputin on Destruction of the Russian Land

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rasputine/message/51


    Two books attributed to him can be found here:
    Grigori Efimovich Rasputin. "Life of an Experienced Pilgrim". May 1907
    Grigori Efimovich Rasputin. "My Ideas and Thoughts" (Petrogad, 1915).doc



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    I currently have impressions of xxNj and probably NF, though I'm still reading material on him.
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    What do Russians say?

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    There you have your answer!

    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    What do Russians say?
    There are barely any mentions of him in any of the Socionics databases and lists. Victor Talanov has him at ILE, and Paul Kuleshov has IEE. I've also seen SLI.
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  18. #18
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    my typing of him is SLI sx/sp 9w8


    Excerpts from his diary:


    "I worked a lot, fished a lot, plowed many fields. Indeed, this is good for a peasant!"

    "Every spring I did not sleep for 40 nights. My sleep was like prostration, this is how I spent years 15 to 28. This pushed me towards new life. Simeon Virtouski gave me the strength to know the way of the truth and cured my insomnia. It was very difficult to bear it all, but I had to do it, God helped me carry on with my work. I did not hire anyone, did all the work myself, at night slept in the fields."

    "One should go on pilgrimage periodically, for months, but years ... when I traveled I found many other pilgrims who have been traveling for years, even decades, the poor souls have traveled so much that an enemy seeded heresy in their souls, they became lazy and lame. Very few I've found who followed in the steps of Christ. We, pilgrims, cannot fight this enemy. From tiredness comes evil. This is why one must go on pilgrimages not for years, and if you go traveling you must be strong, and have the will power to be remain deaf and blind, that is be a simple man. If you can keep this way - then you will become like boudless well"



    Analysis of his writing shows a dynamic, involutionary type:
    Dynamic > Static: His writing contains many linkers and 'active verbs', detailing who went where, who did what, and accounts of his own actions and responses. Awareness of the sequential progression of events was natural for him, as is evidences by accentuation of the actions verbs in his perception.
    Involutionary > Evolutionary: His self-expression is stylistically simple and direct, down-to-earth and wrapped-up, as is attributed to Result/Involutionary types,

    These two traits combine at types: IEI, SLI, LIE, ESE.

    Judging from his personal characteristics, he had a resilient constitution oriented at carrying out a lot of physical work and withstanding many hardships (for example, sleeping out in fields despite being sick, etc.) He kept physically active under such physically demanding circumstances, and even chided other pilgrims for being "too lazy" and not doing work in addition to their travels. This makes sensing type a more sensible choice than an intuitive type. A type with weak/vulnerable sensing such as EIE or EII is likely to feel stressed out and complain in such circumstances. Thus, out of four types mentioned above this narrows down Rasputin's typing to SLI and ESE-Si.

    By enneagram 9w8 sx/sp - fusion of a "lost soul" and "God's instrument".
    Last edited by silke; 03-03-2015 at 06:10 AM.

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    I relatively recently watched a docu about him, I concluded he was likely IEE or IEI. Some details sound more Fe: embracing temptation in order to be forgiven "more strongly" (or whatever), and things along these lines.
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    He fascinates me on so many levels. This definition makes me

    Rasputin

    Born in 1869 as a peasant in Russia, this man had a serious sexual appetite which he exploited to its limits. Based on some of his preserved remains in a Russian museum, he had a 13-inch long penis, and legend has it that he used special powers to fuck over 100,000 women, including the Tzar's wife, the Tzar's four daughters, the Tzar's chambermaids, and the servant-girls in the Tzar's palace. That or he just pulled his pants down in their presence.

    Rasputin started out as an alcoholic womanizer and joined a variation of Russian Orthodoxy called Skopsty, which is founded on the belief that the only way to reach God is through sin. when Rasputin finally became a monk, he travelled a lot, fucking to his heart's content, and tales of his travels and the supposed "magical healing powers" that the monk attained reached the ears of Tzar Nicholas II, whose son was ailing with hemophilia. Rasputin somehow managed to heal the boy and became an important person in the Tzars house. However, the Tzar's relatives were not too happy about the monk fucking their women with his 13-inch cock on a daily basis, so they conspired to kill him.

    One night, Rasputin was invited by the conspirators to dinner. Everything was all planned out that night. He was supposed to drink the poisoned wine and eat the poisoned food and die. But that was not the case, because the Tzar's relatives saw in shock as the monk ate and drank enough poison to kill 6 people, and didn't seem to show any symptoms at all. So, they switched to plan B. They shot him, and found out that it didn't kill him. They kicked the crap out of him and saw that he was still twitching. They cut his dick off, and saw that it didn't work. They stabbed him repeatedly, but HE STILL DIDN'T DIE. So they finally wrapped up Rasputin's broken, breathing body and threw it into a river, where he finally died after several hours.
    Unfortunately for the Tzar's family, they were assassinated four months later, ending the Romanov family line permanently.

    Rasputin can also sometimes be used as a slang word for a big penis.
    If I were Rasputin, I would just fuck and stay out of the limelight instead.
    by urban pervert May 15, 2004
    Props to urban pervert, for this. It is so simple... but it works.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    lol. quite a fascinating figure for me in my very early 20s. I suspect Ni by the insane stuff he spread around him, likely sx/sp. He surely pissed off Felix Yusupov..

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    likely sx/sp.
    I agree.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I agree.
    btw I read in a biography of his that his cock wasn´t that big after all ...it was a myth rooted in stuff said by dozens of women who were impressed by him. With or without knowing him well. Apparently when he had to be checked by a court doctor once, his real (rather common) dimensions were revealed. Cause that was basically the object of everyone´s curiosity.

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    I just watched the "Lovage" video I posted. I can't understand a word you wrote, right now!

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    btw I read in a biography of his that his cock wasn´t that big after all ...it was a myth rooted in stuff said by dozens of women who were impressed by him. With or without knowing him well. Apparently when he had to be checked by a court doctor once, his real (rather common) dimensions were revealed. Cause that was basically the object of everyone´s curiosity.
    This looks so weird to me.
    http://www.omg-facts.com/History/Ras...evered-A/51692

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



  27. #27
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    I am curious about his type as he's a very interesting historical figure, but I'm not really sure about his type other than I think he had strong and valued .



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigori_Rasputin

    This part is really interesting:

    In 1897, Rasputin developed a renewed interest in religion and left Pokrovskoye to go on a pilgrimage. His reasons for doing so are unclear: according to some sources, Rasputin left the village to escape punishment for his role in a horse theft. Other sources suggest that he had a vision – either of the Virgin Mary, or of St. Simeon of Verkhoturye – while still others suggest that Rasputin's pilgrimage was inspired by his interactions with a young theological student, Melity Zaborovsky. Whatever his reasons, Rasputin's departure was a radical life change: he was twenty-eight, had been married ten years, and had an infant son with another child on the way. According to Douglas Smith, his decision "could only have been occasioned by some sort of emotional or spiritual crisis."

    Rasputin had undertaken earlier, shorter pilgrimages to the Holy Znamensky Monastery at Abalak and to Tobolsk's cathedral, but his visit to the St. Nicholas Monastery at Verkhoturye in 1897 was transformative. There, he met and was "profoundly humbled" by a starets (elder) known as Makary. Rasputin may have spent several months at Verkhoturye, and it was perhaps here that he learned to read and write, but he later complained about the monastery itself, claiming that some of the monks engaged in homosexuality and criticizing monastic life as too coercive. He returned to Pokrovskoye a changed man, looking disheveled and behaving differently than he had before. He became a vegetarian, swore off alcohol, and prayed and sang much more fervently than he had in the past.



    He even has a song dedicated to him from the late 1970s:

    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    Grigori Yefimovich Rasputin - ISTJ - Gorky






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    Nikolai II Aleksandrovich - Nicholas II of Russia - ISFJ - Dreiser







    Nicolas II and Rasputin - Business Inter-type Relationship

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    Rasputin has been accused of all sort of things. How many of these accusations are false?




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    Having decided that Rasputin's influence over the Tsarina had made him a threat to the empire, a group of nobles led by Prince Felix Yusupov, the Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich, and the right-wing politician Vladimir Purishkevich concocted a plan to kill Rasputin in December 1916, apparently by luring Rasputin to the Yusupovs' Moika Palace.


    Rasputin was murdered during the early morning on 30 December 1916, at the home of Felix Yusupov


    Prince Felix Felixovich Yusupov - ENTJ - Jack London






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    Killing of Rasputin - From Wikipedia


    "Yusupov's plan, as he described it in his book, was to seek closer acquaintance with the healer Grigori Rasputin, and win his confidence. He asked Rasputin to cure a slight malady from which he suffered."[14] Yusupov first approached the lawyer Vasily Maklakov, who agreed to advise Felix.[15] Yusopov then approached Sergei Mikhailovich Sukhotin, an army officer in the Preobrazhensky Regiment who was recovering from injuries who was a friend of his mother.[16] Grand Duke Dmitri received Yusupov's suggestion with alacrity, and his alliance was welcomed as indicating that the murder would not be a demonstration against the [Romanov] dynasty.[17]


    On the night of 29/30 December (NS) 1916, Felix, Dmitri, Vladimir Purishkevich, assistant Stanilaus de Lazovert and Sukhotin killed Rasputin in the Moika Palace. A major reconstruction of the palace had almost been finished, with a small room in the basement carefully furnished. (For some time, Yusupov lived in a mansion owned by Grand Duchess Xenia Alexandrovna of Russia, his mother-in-law.) Rasputin was hit by a bullet that entered his left chest and penetrated the stomach and the liver; a second entered the left back soon after the first and penetrated the kidneys. The wounds were serious, and Rasputin would have died in 10–20 min, but he succeeded in escaping, only to fall in the snow-clad courtyard. It is not clear if Rasputin was beaten by Yusupov with a sort of dumb bell and if it was Purishkevich who shot him in the forehead. The conspirators finally threw the corpse from Bolshoy Petrovsky Bridge into an ice hole in the Malaya Neva.


    On the Empress's orders, a police investigation commenced and traces of blood were discovered on the steps to the back door of the Yusupov Palace. Prince Felix attempted to explain the blood with a story that one of his favourite dogs was shot accidentally by Grand Duke Dmitri. Yusupov and Dmitri were placed under house arrest in the Sergei Palace. (The upper levels of the palace were occupied by the British embassy and the Anglo-Russian Hospital.[18])


    The Empress had refused to meet the two but said that they could explain what had happened in a letter to her. She wanted both shot immediately, but she was persuaded to back off from the idea.[18] Without a trial,[19] the Tsar sent Dmitri to the front in Persia; Purishkevich was already on his way to the front in Romania. The Tsar banished Yusupov to his estate[20] in Rakitnoye, in Belgorod Oblast.


    Yusupov published several accounts of the night and the events surrounding the murder. Recent authorities have cast doubt on Yusupov's account (see Grigori Rasputin).


    Fuhrmann thinks that Yusupov was the man who hatched the plot and who carried it out. "The clumsy way the assassination was carried out shows it was the work of an amateur."[21] Fuhrmann also thinks Yusupov's "...candid Memoirs were corroborated by the other conspirators."[22]



    The epilogue of the story

    One week after the February Revolution, Nicholas abdicated the throne on 2 March. Following the abdication, the Yusupovs returned to the Moika Palace before they went to Crimea. They later returned to the palace to retrieve jewels (containing the blue Sultan of Morocco Diamond, the Polar Star Diamond, and a pair of diamond earrings that once belonged to Marie-Antoinette) and two paintings by Rembrandt, the sale proceeds of which helped sustain the family in exile. The paintings were bought by Joseph E. Widener in 1921 and are now in the National Gallery in Washington, DC.[23]


    In Crimea, the family boarded a British warship, HMS Marlborough, which took them from Yalta to Malta.

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    Grigori Yefimovich Rasputin (ISTJ - Gorky) - A Loyal servant of the last Tsar

    Last edited by khcs; 01-25-2019 at 08:04 PM.

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