I agree, it's true. This is because I'm not weak in any area. I defy the redundant quips of a personality theory community, and a typology theory taken far too seriously that was developed by silly, lesser mortals. The socionics self help message board. Just admit it, that's exactly what this is. You all just happen to help me by giving me something to laugh at.Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
Muahahahahahaha
haha you said mortals! Go back to the shire asshole!I agree, it's true. This is because I'm not weak in any area. I defy the redundant quips of a personality theory community, and a typology theory taken far too seriously that was developed by silly, lesser mortals. The socionics self help message board. Just admit it, that's exactly what this is. You all just happen to help me by giving me something to laugh at.
I think having Te in your ego has more to do with risk taking because risk taking is about knowing what you get away with and what you can't get away with. And then having the belief in your self to carry it out (Se, somewhere).
Big risks to some won't look like much of big risk for others so ENTj maybe seen as taking a risk, but the ENTj knows that its not that much of a risk.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Are you serious? No one else but me disagrees that having Se as a weak function garners strengths? No one else sees how having strong Se does NOT neccessarily means one is impulsive?
"To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"
"Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."
Does the "PoLR" really have to be considered weak?
Does anyone else think that your PoLR have be to your advantage? Sure, you can't strongly control that function, but at the same time, others may respect that you are not throwing these perticular behaviors out in their faces.
Let's consider the difference between ExTP and IxTP. Herzy made a thread about an Fi PoLR, which I agree with. It actually seems to be the opposite of what I am like in my weak feeling function. She puts up all these social masks that can make people feel better even though she's "faking it", because that's what some people expect and need. I on the other hand, cannot force my self to fake any emotions, ever. It is serverly painful. But to be honest, I've also seen this quality in myself as a kind of "sincerity", rather than a "lack of feeling". However I feel about something, I let people know my true emotions, and whatever's "real" inside of me comes out. If someone is giving me a gift, I don't just smile and say, "Oh, thank you! It's what I wanted!". Now, if it is something that I wanted, then I will let them know exactly why I enjoyed the gift. If it isn't, then I have no problem letting them know that either. But never the generic response.
Also, you can compare the Ne in ISxJ and ENxP. ENxPs on one hand may be quite annoying to some people. They can pretend to know everything about everything, and claim to be expert and great and superior and blah blah blah blah blah blah about this and this and that and this and on and on and on when other people around them constantly shoot down their stupid annoying and irrational opinions of themselves but they just continue going on and on and not stopping to realize how stupid they are and how everyone does not want to hear what they have to say about everything because they are just wrong wrong wrong.But ISxJ is much more likely to not spread their opinions around about much, and when they do, they are much more thorough, well-formulated, and you can tell are taken more seriously (which is why it seems often times people feel more compelled to, in fact, take them more seriously).
And of course all PoLRs can be like this.
Re: Does the "PoLR" really have to be considered &
this is not exclusively an ENxp trait. any type can behave this way, and I can clearly picture any of the Exxx types doing that.They can pretend to know everything about everything, and claim to be expert and great and superior and blah blah blah blah blah blah about this and this and that and this and on and on and on when other people around them constantly shoot down their stupid annoying and irrational opinions of themselves but they just continue going on and on and not stopping to realize how stupid they are and how everyone does not want to hear what they have to say about everything because they are just wrong wrong wrong.
I agree with your point though. I think it's another good way of describing quadra values.
Re: Does the "PoLR" really have to be considered &
Hmm, yeah. Though ENTP seems most likley to tell people about it.this is not exclusively an ENxp trait. any type can behave this way, and I can clearly picture any of the Exxx types doing that.They can pretend to know everything about everything, and claim to be expert and great and superior and blah blah blah blah blah blah about this and this and that and this and on and on and on when other people around them constantly shoot down their stupid annoying and irrational opinions of themselves but they just continue going on and on and not stopping to realize how stupid they are and how everyone does not want to hear what they have to say about everything because they are just wrong wrong wrong.
I think ENTps have a different way of acting like that. They're more into new scientific theories or discoveries or conspiracy theories or other Ti-related topics. They may be narcissistic, but they don't attention whore the way ESTps, ESFps, ENFjs and ENTjs do (and no I am not saying that all people of these types are narcissistic attention whores).
I get your point Rocky. I just disagree.
Just to clarify, I was talking about the imaginary extreme %100 Ne ENxP, which of course is an exageration. I don't personally find ENxPs with sound judgment annoying at all. I just find people who completely lack that form of judgment or reflection to be irritating because they usually talk about things that they really don't know stuff about. :/
The attention-whore types seems to be the strong ExxPs.
I get your point Rocky. I just disagree.
Re: Does the "PoLR" really have to be considered w
Most people out there who know nothing of Socionics would probably agree with this. Although, like most things, even if you can turn it into an advantage, there is always a big disadvantage.
Any function, in excess of the amount I posess myself is potentially very annoying. Profuse amounts of one's ego functions at the expense of the more subordinate ones basically serve to put a wedge in between one's relationship with less compatible type. ESTjs find me frustrating, and that sentiment is pretty much mutual.
The PoLR, by nature, will probably be mostly undesirable and unattractive to the individual for this reason. They cannot consciously bring it into action very well but, then again... why would they want to express something that causes them great sensitivity and possibly even offense when expressed strongly by others? Some people will appreciate that I do not throw large amounts of Te at them, and that, when I do, it's genuine and metered and not in excess - more compatible types, obviously. Other people will find it a barrier to communication and interaction.
"Does anyone else think that your PoLR have be to your advantage? Sure, you can't strongly control that function, but at the same time, others may respect that you are not throwing these perticular behaviors out in their faces. "
The opposing phenomenon is basically why contraries and quasi-identicals piss each other off.
"To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"
"Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."
My Te PoLR, if that is my PoLR, makes me question everything we hold true, all the fact could potentially be wrong. Also makes me never eliminate something as not true because there could be a way, somehow, somewhere that it could be true. The same goes for true. The only things that can be relied upon are perfect, hermetically closed, systems (Like math for example) because everything else (The earth goes around the sun) is not reliable.
In a sense the only thing that's true is what I define as true. That's why my reality sometimes runs like a conspiracy theory "they say the earth revolves around the sun ... but does it ??? Perhaps it's really ..."
But it's very important for me to realize that reality is not in the mind. (Or is it???)
I consider it a strength because when dealing with people it makes me question them, who and what they are. (That's as in their *essence*, not paranoia)
I've befriended several INTps throughout my life. I always enjoyed the fact that I could just relax around them and have sincere Fe-free interactions.
This is an accurate description of me, too.I on the other hand, cannot force my self to fake any emotions, ever. It is serverly painful. But to be honest, I've also seen this quality in myself as a kind of "sincerity", rather than a "lack of feeling". However I feel about something, I let people know my true emotions, and whatever's "real" inside of me comes out. If someone is giving me a gift, I don't just smile and say, "Oh, thank you! It's what I wanted!". Now, if it is something that I wanted, then I will let them know exactly why I enjoyed the gift. If it isn't, then I have no problem letting them know that either.
Re: Does the "PoLR" really have to be considered w
multi-tasking leads to a lack of deep thought.Also, you can compare the Ne in ISxJ and ENxP. ENxPs on one hand may be quite annoying to some people. They can pretend to know everything about everything, and claim to be expert and great and superior and blah blah blah blah blah blah about this and this and that and this and on and on and on when other people around them constantly shoot down their stupid annoying and irrational opinions of themselves but they just continue going on and on and not stopping to realize how stupid they are and how everyone does not want to hear what they have to say about everything because they are just wrong wrong wrong.
Re: Does the "PoLR" really have to be considered w
This is why I dont use stimulants (caffeine, chocolate, sugars!) during exam or study days. One dude on a message board told me back in the 70s he'd take a teeeeny amount of coke before exams and that it helped. I was like, "Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiighhht." I wanted to comment that was prolly one of many reasons he only had a 1 yr. certificate at the age of 50ish.... but I was nice =/multi-tasking leads to a lack of deep thought.Also, you can compare the Ne in ISxJ and ENxP. ENxPs on one hand may be quite annoying to some people. They can pretend to know everything about everything, and claim to be expert and great and superior and blah blah blah blah blah blah about this and this and that and this and on and on and on when other people around them constantly shoot down their stupid annoying and irrational opinions of themselves but they just continue going on and on and not stopping to realize how stupid they are and how everyone does not want to hear what they have to say about everything because they are just wrong wrong wrong.
It (The PoLR function itself) has to be considered weak but the concept of "PoLR" doesn't only mean weakness. It's a weakness that, in the big picture, gives a direction that is compatible with the strengths direction. Think of a sunflower, with petals all around pointing at every direction. Now if all those who point more downwards than upwards fall, the petals will generally point upwards, thus having a global direction that is more focused even though it lacks petals (Note that this example is not used to demonstrate anything else than the basic (And very general) pattern i see when we refer to the advantage of having a PoLR. Also, this post could go in thePoLR thread, that's why i actually used the sunflower example.
hmmm... i find this really interesting because i just finished writing a paper on Gödel's theorem.
basically the theorem states that for any set of statements, there is at least one statement which is necessarily true but cannot be proven by the set of statements. it also follows that if this statement is included in the set of statements, then the set of statements is inconsistent (i.e. it produces a contradiction).
since mathematics is a system built entirely upon axioms (in a way that is different from other fields which Gödel's theorem may affect, such as physical science and psychology), it is reasonable to assume that Gödel's theorem applies also to mathematics, indicating that mathematics is not really a definitive truth because there are always topics that are present which mathematics cannot really explain (such as the concept of infinity). when mathematics tries to explain such topics, a contradiction will necessarily result, demonstrating that mathematics is not pure truth as you might suggest (as nothing, apparently, is pure truth as a result of this theorem).
Its a strength as well. I did a post on this months ago.Does the "PoLR" really have to be considered weak?
don't mind this thread. rocky's just supervising me.
PoLR as a strength
This discussion speaks ofPoLR as being a strength in a way due to their inclination to discard bad sources.
Likewise, those with
How does your PoLR work as a strength for you?
For me,is my PoLR and I feel uneasy around people who are overly forceful or those who encroach on my personal space. My reaction to these people tends to fall towards one extreme or another. I may either do nothing and let the person walk all over me or I'll react sharply towards the person by telling them off or angrily walking away. The sharp reactions are a strength in a way because I'm deservedly putting the person in their place and letting them know I'm not going to put up with their crap.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
I also want to add that in part because of my
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
Due to my Socionics PoLR, I'm able to try on lots of different types and understand them a bit better.
Warrior-librarian already said all of my things.
Quaero Veritas.
Nice try but the very definition of polr means it's something that makes you innately uncomfortable, your achieels heel, psychological weak point. I guess everything has an upside though. Even viruses have their place in the universe.
But just accept you have weaknesses, things that other people need to cover up for you. You are a social animal, you don't exist in a vacuum. We are constantly seeking for others to upgrade us, and to hide the things we don't like about ourselves. It's just human nature.
Yeah I was just about to say...
my Fe PoLR isn't THAT impressive. In fact, I don't think its impressive at all. Where is my refund?
Last edited by 717495; 08-13-2009 at 01:26 AM.
Very definition of PoLR means it's the weakest of your 8 functions. It's the weakest relatively speaking. Weakest in relation to other functions in one's psyche. It doesn't say anything about it's absolute strength. You can have someone who is Fe-PoLR and who is at the same time more adept at Fe than someone who is Fe-leading.
P.S. I'm speculating here
That doesn't make sense. That would only make sense I guess if the person was fucked up psychologically and emotionally, but type relations are based on relative average health.
The strength associated with your PoLR is your Creative function, obviously. You can't have any Creative function without having it's opposite as a weakness.
Yea, you can't really turn a weakness into a strength. The strength is the creative function. I think any occasion where your polr seems to provide a benefit would be purely accidental. Suppose your boss proposes a new way for you to do things at work, but you know only an idiot would propose such a ridiculous way of doing things. Theoretically,
I hear our duals are quite fond of our polr. This could be a strength, perk, whatever you want to call it.
The saddest ESFj
...
This was my thinking. Most people sounded like they were just echoing their creative function.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
This is related to the issue of "wether one uses one's functions all at a time or not". If we take the answer to the aforementioned question to be yes, then "has [X] as a Creative function" and "has [opposite of X] as a PoLR function" mean exactly the same thing. If all the functions mesh together anyway, there is no need to make a distinction between the two concepts.
So, basically, a type has only two functions.
Eight functions, but two elements. This is how I've been coming to understand it, as I'd totally glossed over the idea that complementarity was some sort of internal structural thing.
Just because it can be to your advantage to have a certain element as PoLR, that doesn't make it a strength. It is still weak, you still have trouble using it and are still vulnerable to PoLR sucker punches because the function itself is not strong. That said, it can be very advantageous to not use your PoLR function. Things like avoiding Fe drama or submitting to others' Se - this isn't using your PoLR in a strong way, this is deliberately avoiding it in an advantageous way.
Stan is not my real name.
What's the Te polr benefit?
Gayness.
I think Fe leaders are gayer
Sorry all you Fe-creatives, but it's true.
Stan is not my real name.
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