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Thread: ENTjs/LIEs as Enneagram Type 7

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    Default ENTjs/LIEs as Enneagram Type 7

    I've recently being contemplating this.

    Since Brad Pitt and QT (I think) have been cited as LIEs, and since they're both 7w6s, and since Salawa, an LIE and a 7w6, and since Fabio, a 7w8 who relates to LIE could be LIEs, why can't 7s be LIEs? Is it hard to believe that a 7 could have Te as a leading function?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Is it hard to believe that a 7 could have Te as a leading function?
    No it isn't, if you put it in those terms. But is it all there is to LIE, and to 7?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    No it isn't, if you put it in those terms. But is it all there is to LIE, and to 7?
    But that's the fundamental thing; whether or not a 7 is capable of having Te as a leading function. Are they? That's a question I'd like to know the answer to. Or have Pitt and QT been mistyped, either socionically or Enneagramatically? Are Salawa and Fabio misguided?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    But that's the fundamental thing; whether or not a 7 is capable of having Te as a leading function. Are they?
    The simple and correct answer is no. Of course they can't. Type 7 is clearly an irrational type, and the most typical 7s are extraverted Ne types. It doesn't make sense to suppose that a leading Te type can ever be a 7.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Or have Pitt and QT been mistyped, either socionically or Enneagramatically?
    Yes, why not? That is the most simple and the most likely answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Are Salawa and Fabio misguided?
    I don't know about Salawa, but FDG is most likely either not a LIE but an EP 7w8, or an LIE 8w7. I think that FDG:s behavior, based on his posts on this forum, fits type 8 pretty well. Another enneatype that I would suggest him to investigate in depth, if he hasn't done that already, is type 3. But maybe that type can be dismissed on not too obvious grounds that I am not aware of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    The simple and correct answer is no. Of course they can't. Type 7 is clearly an irrational type, and the most typical 7s are extraverted Ne types. It doesn't make sense to suppose that a leading Te type can ever be a 7.
    How does the motivation 'to be satisfied' conflict with Te as a leading function?

    I don't know about Salawa, but FDG is most likely either not a LIE but an EP 7w8, or an LIE 8w7. I think that FDG:s behavior, based on his posts on this forum, fits type 8 pretty well. Another enneatype that I would suggest him to investigate in depth, if he hasn't done that already, is type 3. But maybe that type can be dismissed on not too obvious grounds that I am not aware of.
    I disagree that Fabio is an 8. And ask those who have met him what they make of him. And ask Fabio; he's pretty well versed in the Enneagram (more so than me), so his opinion is the best.

    I see a lot of Se with Fabio. I think he's been mistyped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salawa View Post
    I think the growth and disintegration of E7 can also work well for LIE under certain interpretations -- for example the disintegration into E1 could be the picture of what other types may see as the snarky, vindictive, self-righteous side.

    Note this social role from the LIE description in the wiki:



    So the LIE can be the sort of person who is kind of restless and scattered in a relatively similar way to the E7 (at least from what I can see).

    Maybe growth into E5 would happen under the influence of their dual, as they are able to help focus the LIE's energy, and perhaps they would start to look like a healthy E5. (I have read some descriptions -- don't ask me which ones because I honestly don't remember -- that mention to boundless energy of the LIE, scattered in too many directions, and only the ESI can help them).
    And you really think that the 7 would sacrifice their personal life?

    Ezra -- this may be significant as you have previously insisted that LIEs are probably 5s and that you thought Expat, Joy and I were all 5s.
    Maybe. I don't know. I certainly don't get the same vibe from Joy as I do from you and Expat, however. I don't think 5 is a possibility for her. In fact, I could very easily see 7w8 as a possibility for Joy. I could see 8w7, but I don't get the forceful energy from her; I see a playful, light-hearted side that isn't willing to combat anyone. However, after having met Expat, his behaviour is akin to a 5, and he has convinced me that he could be an 8w9. 8s can very easily look like 5s. I'll go into more depth later if you're really interested by this.

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    Expat gives off the vibe of a 5w6 or a 6w5. He's very knowledgeable, very 'rambling' (this is something I actually admire as much as the connotations are negative; I get on very well with NTs, because they share my will in never getting tired of talking about systems like socionics amongst other philosophical ideas), and generally emotionally reserved. Now, where I and Expat differ is in my belief that LIE can be correlated with the 5. He doesn't think so. I think we'd both agree that an NT can easily be a 5, and is probably the epitome of a typical one. However, while he believes 5s cannot be EJs, I disagree. Nothing on this page contradicts a potential 5's behaviour. It's very easy to find examples of LIE 5s; Bill Gates being the best example. I also think that Te as a base function is akin to a 5's 'thirst for knowledge'. Again, Expat has problems with this, but I don't fully understand them, so perhaps he can explain them when and if he reads this. Now, I believe Expat could be an 8w9, but I think 5w6 is more likely.

    As for you as both an LIE and a 7w6, I have two problems with the correlation, and one problem concerning your being a 7w6. Firstly, while NT 7 fits nicely, EJ 7 does not, not because of the external behaviour of an EJ (this fits perfectly with the 7) but because of this:

    "EJs are both dynamic and rational, so they see reality as in continuous, gradual, often imperceptible change. At the same time, an EJ has his own views of what reality "should" be. This inclines him to be quick to take action, normally using his leading function, in order to make sure things will remain, or become, as they should be, before change can get too far."

    To be honest, I don't think a 7 is that concerned about what things 'should be', and they certainly don't have a problem with change. On the contrary; they revel in it. Also, one thing that I agree with which Phaedrus does say and which I think is pertinent here is that a 7 is, by nature, irrational. Although he doesn't explain why, which is a pisstake, he states it. I have never, ever encountered a 7 who has a view of how reality 'should be'. And I know a hell of a lot of 7s. On top of this, I doubt Brad Pitt has this view of reality. And I really doubt Fabio does.

    Secondly, shit, I've forgotten. I'll get back to you when I remember.

    The problem with your being a 7w6 is that 7s are confident people who cover their flaws, and make a show of their successes and skills. I know this because I live with two, and practically a third. My mother, brother and best friend are all not just 7s, but 7w6s. You'd think they'd be less confident than the 7w8, because they have the confident 8 as their wing as opposed to the doubting 6, but you'd be wrong. They're all very confident people. Now, I've spoken to you before, and you've posted several undermining topics about yourself, and you don't exude an air of confidence to me.

    Now, onto Joy. She's a bit of a mystery to me. From the pieces I can gather about her, she's certainly an interesting character. First off, I wouldn't be surprised if she was an Assertive. Secondly, I can see NT for her quite easily. I doubt she's an NF or ST, and SF is unlikely. I see no clear reason to doubt her being an LIE. Now, as for her being an 8, the fact that she's not that commanding or particularly dominating on the forum makes me doubt she is one.

    On 5s looking like 8s, there's a passage in Helen Palmer's The Enneagram in Love and Work that basically talks about how an 8 can easily defy the typical 'gutsy' stereotype. Many reports have been made of 8s who like to spend hours alone in their room intellectualising and following pursuits which require one's head. They behave like 5s. However, the fundamental concern - to protect themselves and determine their own course in life - is there. It is not a desire to be capable. This is the 5's desire, not the 8's desire. To me, Expat gives the impression that he would much rather be capable than protective of himself. All LIEs do. To me, the SLE exudes more of a care for protection of themselves. They want to be at the top because they love power, and they love power because this guarentees their protection. Anyway, for a good example of this 8 that looks like a 5, look at me. I used to spend hours in my room, and I still do love to think and follow ideas. But it is not in order to be capable in the world. It's just a hobby. I enjoy it. A 5 might study socionics so that they can become more capable in the art of relationship handling. An 8 would study it because they enjoy it.

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