Funny, I was saying the same thing about a month ago.Originally Posted by discojoe
INTj
INFj
ENFj
ENTj
ENTp
ESTj
ISFp
ENFp
Funny, I was saying the same thing about a month ago.
Joy:I'm just more polite.
Honestly.... the reason I haven't made much of an arguement is BECAUSE this subject of whether I'm an ESTj is not interesting to me... I'm sorry.
I can tell you your type, but I'll need to see more pictures of your face first. The expression you are making in that pic is very neurotic and not "normal" ENTP from my experience. (at least, not what they allow others to see)
I make expressions like that often, and I think that many people do, actually. It's just rare that they let other people see them, especially in public.
=)
=)
Sounds like McNew.It sounds like you're defending yourself, rather than you SHOWING YOUR ENTp self.
Click on the link that says "VI" in the 2nd post on the first page of this topic.Joy:I'm just more polite.
Honestly.... the reason I haven't made much of an arguement is BECAUSE this subject of whether I'm an ESTj is not interesting to me... I'm sorry.
I can tell you your type, but I'll need to see more pictures of your face first. The expression you are making in that pic is very neurotic and not "normal" ENTP from my experience. (at least, not what they allow others to see)
I make expressions like that often, and I think that many people do, actually. It's just rare that they let other people see them, especially in public.
Ummmm can you please give me more than one example of this? I'm guessing you cannot... and I do not believe you have adequate information or exposure to the situation to know understand what was going on.And that is why you (many a times) consider their silly/harmless antics rude and are quick to point it out.
Corn Lady... I did not start this thread because I wanted to talk about the possibility of my being an ESTj. There is already a thread about that. I started this thread because I kept hearing "You're an ENFp" or "You're an ENTj" and wanted to lay these suspicions to rest. As far as the ESTj thing... this is where this debate stands...
1.) I have posted my test results twice. Do you know how to read them? I'm guessing not or this debate would have been as soon as I posted them.
2.) I actually took the time to go through the type descriptions sentence by sentence and state which things apply to me and which do not. Did you even look at that? Thee is A LOT of red on the ENTp, a bit of red and a bit of blue on the ENFp, and a whole lot of blue and very little red on the ESTj...
3.) A handful of people who I talk to quite a bit have stated that they believe me to be an ENTp
4.) The ENTps say I'm an ENTp!
This is why I didn't present evidence of my type to you in the beginning. I knew that it wouldn't matter. You claim to have some sort of hunch that I am a type and ask other people to explain it to me because you cannot. You anaylze my relations with people when you do not actually witness much of my interaction with them. You will not look at any evidence presented to you or listen to people who should know what they're talking about better than most.
I agree that it is time to agree to disagree. Unless hard evidence is present, the ESTj debate is officially closed. Anyone who wishes to suggest another type may feel free.
I keep telling people, I and joy really really think and act alot alike. I would bet dollars to pesos we are the same type.Sounds like McNew.It sounds like you're defending yourself, rather than you SHOWING YOUR ENTp self.
"maizemedley, despite your irrationality, you've bought my approval with complements. Well done." - discojoe
utter honesty. haha. man i can't get over that.
this joe has grown on me considerably. his responses remind me of things i'd say in real life. i dunno. i think he might be estp or i'm an entp. either way, it's pretty funny.
I'm getting pretty tired of arguing over people's types here... so if you people want to continue, that's fine. I don't care to get involved, but I will say that I think both DiscoJoe and Joy are ILEs/ ENTPs. There, I'm done, bye.
Okay, so I may be more aggressive, caustic, random, and manipulative than Joy... on the forums, but that doesn't say much, in my opinion. The things with ENTps (and probably people in general) is that you can't always type us by observing us from one angle. If I went to some highschool's prom, and didn't know anyone, I'd probably sit somewhere by myself and look bored, but that doesn't make me introverted. If I were teaching someone how to fence I would probably be a bit strict and precise in my instruction, but that doesn't make me a J. When I'm talking about my private concerns with a counselor, I may be very sentimental, but that doesn't mean I have strong. In my opinion, my sense of humor is the main identifying factor of my type. What if I decided to "be more mature" and not post the same sort of things? My type wouldn't change because of this choice, but I'm sure peoples' opinions of it would.
In the same vein, Joy's choice of words and general attitude cannot be the determining factor here. I know there are times when I do not feel like arguing, so I'll laugh it off at first, and eventually slam the door and walk out if it keeps on. In my discussions with Joy, I have found that we have MUCH in common; several large things and many more small little things. We differ where all people differ: taste in music, favorite color, food, mode of expression. My upbringing was pretty quiet, whereas Joy, being a beautiful woman, who was probably popular and surrounded by guys and girls wanting to be in her company, had a much more active social life than I do. In Joy's circumstances I can see myself turning out the same way. Although I have learned to take a step back and be logical most of the time, I definitely have a wild side, and that environment could certainly have brought it out.
There are numerous possible explanations for Joy's general non-confrontational attitude. Maybe she feels that spending so much effort over internet-based communication is not a good way to relax. Maybe when she gets back from work she is too tired to lift the thinking cap onto her head. Maybe she just doesn't like to argue. Those are all possibilities that are as personal as what kind of clothes you like to wear. My favorite color is green, because nature is nuturing and peaceful. Does that sentiment make me an INFj?
With Joy I get the indentical vibe. We have had lots of deep discussions that have uncovored striking similarities between us. With ENFps, I can't have these discussions. I offend ENFps because they are overly emotional pansies who pretend to be intellectuals. Joy has not once been offended by the things I have said, and she has actually challenged me logically instead of saying "your mean go beet your woman rofl." My boss is an ESTj, and while I admire his headstrong nature, he lacks any sort of foresight or imagination. Joy does not lack these. Not at all.
So if it is possible for me to have all these things in common with someone who is not my type, then fine, maybe Joy is ENHTYD. But until I hear a persuasive argument that is grounded in something other than the mystical feelings a person gets that haven't been screened with reason, I must conclude that she is an ENTp.
Sure, she doesn't like conflict. Sure, she is much more chirpy and sociable than I am on the forums. Sure, she posts way more than I do. But guess what? ENTP
discojoe is definitely an ENTp.
Joy, those pictures aren't enough. They're not close enough to your face. You seem to me to have a quality about your eyes that isn't consistent with some ENTPs I've known. (you're looking at people unsystematically, unlike most NTPs I've known) On the other hand, one of the regulars at a forum I frequent has that "looking without saying" characteristic, too.
You're probably an ENTp though. The alternative is ESxJ, Newt Gingerich's type. (that expression on your face reminds me of him. No offense?
The vast majority of people here, with the exception of a handful (maybe), are amateurs when it comes to typing people. The majority of us go by what we "feel" or how we understand and/or comprehend the descriptions (written by people you probably never heard of or know don't their research background) to type each other. The majority of us don't know shit.
We read a few articles and, all of a sudden we're experts on the subject. We can tell everyone what he or she is because they read a two to three page description of a certain type. We close ourselves off to any information or objections to what we "think" we are. And Yeah, just cause you talked to someone for hours online, that doesn't make you an authority in defining someones type. Shit man, how many of us don't even know some of our family members, who we have know for all of our lives (and known them in the "real" world.)
How many of you people actually studied this field? How many of us have done research on the subject, tested people, learned how these test work, why certain questions are asked and how to evaluate them? How many of us know the validity of these tests? How the functions work and interact with other types? How many of you have dedicated your life to this study? Or maybe it's just a hobby for many of us? I'm pretty sure a few you have studied this field, but the vast majority (I'm betting) has not.
On the other hand, we take tests to tell us what's our type. But we usually answer the way we want to perceive ourselves, or (I know I'm guilty of this) we have a skewed perception of ourselves. We may think we know how we function, but until thoroughly analyzed, we really don't know a thing. For most of, our knowledge on this subject is opinion and "feelings", based on llittle to no evidence. The only "evidence" we use are the few descriptions and tests that are available to us onlline. (Again I know there are few of you out there who actually study this for a living)
The vast majority of posters in this forum are amateur’s people! That's why you guys are always questioning everything everyone says. If you don't know the theories behind these descriptions, where they come from, who conceived them and why, then you really don't know a thing about personality types. The Internet is not always a valid research tool. Just because Joe Blow wrote what he thinks is a description of an ENTp or ENFP and posted it online doesn't make him/her an authority on the subject.
So I wouldn't take anything anyone says here seriously. It's just a place to come and bullshit.
BTW I don't think Joy is an ENTp, just my "expert" opinion.
=)
Ditto.my sense of humor is the main identifying factor of my type.
Hey mazmedley what are you on? DJ and Joy are ENTps.
http://forum.socionix.com
I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.
EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!
maizemedley, what I am saying is that I know Joy better than you, and being an ENTp, am more qualified to judge whether or not she is one too.
No offense, my lady.
This thread has to be a joke ... Joy, an ESTj! ... blah!
This thread is NOT about whether or not Joy is an ESTj! The only reason that it was even in the poll is because I was being polite and putting all of the types anyone has ever mentioned...
=)
i havent read this whole thing. sorry.
i just wanted to remind everyone that intelligence being related to type is a point under contention.
Maize, i understand your arguments. I also hear you as saying that you can't by the nature of your judgment making equipment, make the case that other entps or other types other than yours can make towards saying that joy is a particular type.
Others: even if you cannot confirm someone's type from one angle, that thought alone will not exclude such observations as evidence for whatever point is trying to be made to the contrary. If there need to be more conditions, that by itself does not make the statements any less useful, relevant, or true in support of another theory.
I honestly see the mystical evidence from both sides and i would have to say that unless the language of argument can be modified for the arguing parties it is best to disagree , as nothing can be done in the way of progress.
If maize cannot conclude , as noone can see someone from all angles, that someone is a certain type from her limited knowledge, and as she has not said that she has all such angles in her realm of perception, nor has she said that all such behaviors observed from her one angle are sufficient to determine the type, then noone else can conclude that the one exclusion of an ENTp factor can mean that it is not her type. But we cannot say that her assessment is not true unless we say why that particular assessment is not true. The whole issue has been avoided......
!!!
rather, more evidence of a different nature and not of an explantory kind was given.
I agree, if you are using the relations which socionics would not discourage, i dont think, in determining type, then someone of that type would be able to discern better. But thats assuming that we can be sure what an Identical, Mirror, Conflicting relation actually feels like.
oh, to know that other minds do exist would be grand! (this is not sarcastic)
I agree with msk. This thread is funny.
It's always been a common error to confuse how things are and how we define them, and then argue about how "things" should fit the definition. The less precise the definition, the higher the probability of committing such an error is. When dealing with personnality, it's obvious a lack of precision always happens because of:
A) The presence of uncalculable or unperceivable elements which causes that nobody can know every aspect of everything that counts in the behavioral equations, even less in the equations regarding cognitive bias other people have.
B) The unpredictability of many of those equations in many aspects such as the length and size of effect.
C) The bias people have because of their own personnalities and conceptions of reality. (Which also leads to the stubborn attitude that reality should fit the perception or definition of it.)
To get a general idea of the worst situation, think butterfly effect meets quantum physics meets chaos theory meets experimenter effect.
Now it's a worst case scenario because we know we can somewhat "see" type but there is currently disagreement most probably because of one of the aforementioned bugs.
I was supplying this thread with a dose of irrationality, in an atempt to see, and to allow other to see, how various people react to that kind of stimulus. I saw marked differences that I attribute to type rather than, people being tired, bored, uninterested...etc. etc.
It may be a mistake to assume type is in play...but I'm not convinced. Simple as dat! I'll take my irrationality elsewhere, thank you very much. I'll take it to...Delta....let's see how they react to it. It's been very interesting seeing the different ways people react to specific stimuli. AND FUN, no, not really, it hasn't been fun. In all actuality, I wanted people to see the different reactions to irrationality and attribute them to type. But most people here are attributing it to simple type variations. A consensus I don't agree with.My experiment a failure?
If you think your experiment is a failure because the outcome is not as you predicted, then you hinder your chances of being taken seriously by suggesting you wish to adapt reality to fit your conception of it instead of the other way around (Which is directly related to my previous post about typing people).
Good points, and part of that is why I'm starting to get away from arguing people's types through a forum. People shouldn't type by "feelings". I have been starting to realize that most people don't take serious time in finding out a person's "true" type, but come to some quick conclusion based off of a shallow personality. And while I'm on the subject, I don't think people should take VI too seriously either. And as for celerities, those aren't realy as cut and dry as people have thought in the past. I know of one type that varies in personality tremendasly, and I think this type leads to a lot of mistypes in real life. What do Marlon Brano, Babe Ruth, Kurt Cobain, Will Smith, Mick Jagger, Jimi Hendrix, Chris Farely, and Bob Dylan have in common? Well, I didn't believe it before, but I realize it now. I know I've mentioed a couple of these people in the past, and they weren't far from what most people on here said, but I think I was wrong. And my opinion is that what they have in common is that they share the same type with DiscoJoe and Joy.The vast majority of people here, with the exception of a handful (maybe), are amateurs when it comes to typing people. The majority of us go by what we "feel" or how we understand and/or comprehend the descriptions (written by people you probably never heard of or know don't their research background) to type each other. The majority of us don't know shit.
We read a few articles and, all of a sudden we're experts on the subject. We can tell everyone what he or she is because they read a two to three page description of a certain type. We close ourselves off to any information or objections to what we "think" we are. And Yeah, just cause you talked to someone for hours online, that doesn't make you an authority in defining someones type. Shit man, how many of us don't even know some of our family members, who we have know for all of our lives (and known them in the "real" world.)
How many of you people actually studied this field? How many of us have done research on the subject, tested people, learned how these test work, why certain questions are asked and how to evaluate them? How many of us know the validity of these tests? How the functions work and interact with other types? How many of you have dedicated your life to this study? Or maybe it's just a hobby for many of us? I'm pretty sure a few you have studied this field, but the vast majority (I'm betting) has not.
On the other hand, we take tests to tell us what's our type. But we usually answer the way we want to perceive ourselves, or (I know I'm guilty of this) we have a skewed perception of ourselves. We may think we know how we function, but until thoroughly analyzed, we really don't know a thing. For most of, our knowledge on this subject is opinion and "feelings", based on llittle to no evidence. The only "evidence" we use are the few descriptions and tests that are available to us onlline. (Again I know there are few of you out there who actually study this for a living)
The vast majority of posters in this forum are amateur’s people! That's why you guys are always questioning everything everyone says. If you don't know the theories behind these descriptions, where they come from, who conceived them and why, then you really don't know a thing about personality types. The Internet is not always a valid research tool. Just because Joe Blow wrote what he thinks is a description of an ENTp or ENFP and posted it online doesn't make him/her an authority on the subject.
So I wouldn't take anything anyone says here seriously. It's just a place to come and bullshit.
BTW I don't think Joy is an ENTp, just my "expert" opinion.
Kurt Cobain ENTp....
That is almost as funny as this thread.
time for laugh.
http://forum.socionix.com
I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.
EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!
Joy:
I'd have to say you're either ENTp or ESTp
Possibly an F type of either of these, also...
You do realise ESFp makes a lot of sense, though, considering you are currently with an INTp, right?
I voted ENTP. This is fun. Does that mean if Joy gets voted ESTJ she has to change her type?
My reason for thinking Joy's an ENTP is pretty fuzzy, but nothing to do with "gut feelings" (and as an ENFp I'm very proud of that, hah!).
ESTJs and ENTPs are both goal-oriented. But ESTJs seem to look more at the goal itself. They focus on the result of solving problems and getting things done. ENTPs seem to enjoy the process itself. The adventure. Being in a situation that has lots of potential, maybe lots of chaos, lots of novelty, and then improvising and organizing their way out of it. Ideally without much outside interference. Like John Wayne in the movies.
One ENTP I know is a shopkeeper and he's a lot better at establishing new shops, or saving a failing business, than he is at the day-to-day work. Once everything is organized he gets restless. Sometimes he rearranges everything in his shop just because of that. For him the ideal life is one where he's a free, independent trailblazer or troubleshooter who walks into a chaotic situation, finds his way around, discovers what's to be done, does it, and then moving on to the next situation. I could just picture him doing your kind of job and having a very good time, exactly because of the adventure it involves:
a) you get to crawl under things, climb on rooftops etc,
b) you get to explore things and find things out,
c) once the work is done, you get to move on to the next exciting problem.
When I look at people on this forum who are ENTPs, they all seem to have this in common, this desire to be free and adventurous, independent from what others say, doing unusual or new things. RMcNew is doing it at the computer, but it's the same pattern. I think. Sometimes I get the hunch that ENTPs are proud of being different from the norm, whereas ESTJs couldn't care less. (But that's just a gut feeling.)
In case someone said all this before: sorry, I posted this without reading all of the previous pages.
I couldn't agree more! I also get to learn new things on a regular basis and I LOVE being the only female Home Inspector out of like, the 300 Home Inspectors in my city. I am also the youngest if I am not mistaken...I voted ENTP. This is fun. Does that mean if Joy gets voted ESTJ she has to change her type?
My reason for thinking Joy's an ENTP is pretty fuzzy, but nothing to do with "gut feelings" (and as an ENFp I'm very proud of that, hah!
ESTJs and ENTPs are both goal-oriented. But ESTJs seem to look more at the goal itself. They focus on the result of solving problems and getting things done. ENTPs seem to enjoy the process itself. The adventure. Being in a situation that has lots of potential, maybe lots of chaos, lots of novelty, and then improvising and organizing their way out of it. Ideally without much outside interference. Like John Wayne in the movies.
One ENTP I know is a shopkeeper and he's a lot better at establishing new shops, or saving a failing business, than he is at the day-to-day work. Once everything is organized he gets restless. Sometimes he rearranges everything in his shop just because of that. For him the ideal life is one where he's a free, independent trailblazer or troubleshooter who walks into a chaotic situation, finds his way around, discovers what's to be done, does it, and then moving on to the next situation. I could just picture him doing your kind of job and having a very good time, exactly because of the adventure it involves:
a) you get to crawl under things, climb on rooftops etc,
b) you get to explore things and find things out,
c) once the work is done, you get to move on to the next exciting problem.
When I look at people on this forum who are ENTPs, they all seem to have this in common, this desire to be free and adventurous, independent from what others say, doing unusual or new things. RMcNew is doing it at the computer, but it's the same pattern. I think. Sometimes I get the hunch that ENTPs are proud of being different from the norm, whereas ESTJs couldn't care less. (But that's just a gut feeling.)
In case someone said all this before: sorry, I posted this without reading all of the previous pages.
Kreatuv, you call this being with someone?
BTW, I wanna know who voted ISFp... it's funny! Nice one.
I know it's been said, but typing people based on how well you relate and click on an Internet forum or chatroom is really based on shaky grounds...I made rmcnew an honorary ENFp because I relate very well to his humor in the catroom: Silly ENFp humor. Among other things. Yet, I'm by no means an ENTp (pansie that I am).
In my mind, the "i relate well to her" argument is out the window. I would even go as far as to say that I have more in common with rmcnew than he does with Discojoe (no offense, mcnew, he he).
I have already said why Joy is not an ENFp (I don't see the
I haven't really read all posts carefully, perhaps it's already been done. However, I'm not talking about the functions in the test result (I agree with Rocky that those are likely to be skewed), but how they are displayed here. Maizemedley has already stated that Discojoe, to her, displays ENTp behavior. How does this translate into the functions.
Although I tested ENFp on all tests and the descriptions fit me really well, I was convinced to be an ENFp when I reflected on how I use
So how do the ENTps here display their(if that's even possible to tell in this setting). One thing, Joy, and don't jump at me, but I don't really see
Sorry if this is repetitive. I'm too lazy to read every single post.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Well you bring up a good point with the PoLR and hidden agenda, Kim...
I'm really not sure about your PoLR. In that respect, the difference between you and the other ENTps here seems pretty profound. But see my edit up there. I just don't know if
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Oh, I see. The PoLR + your hidden agenda.
In that sense, you seem very much ENTp.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Thanks Kim. Kim, I do act differently with you than with others... I show you my emotional side and tell you how I feel and whatnot... I like ENFps for that because it doesn't seem to annoy them and it's not at all awkward.
Another thing that I don't believe I've mentioned before is alcohol... Wine is Fe/Fi in a bottle for me. I am honest with myself and I am able to say things to people that I usually wouldn't, often things that I hadn't really entirely accepted myself until that point. There's a HUGE draw there... And it's one of the reasons I apparently quit drinking. If I am a regular drinker it makes it easy to avoid dealing with my feelings because it's sooooo much easier when I'm drunk. I think it creates somewhat of a Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde thing with me. You can't have a conversation with me about my feelings when I'm sober.... I won't even smile if you make me happy. But as soon as I drink I'm this bouncy happy tell-you-all-my-secrets person. Not healthy... I decided that if I stop drinking it'll force me to deal with my feelings in a healthier manner, to be honest with myself, and to learn how to express myself appropriately. *sigh* It's a lot of hard work dammit!
Guilty.BTW, I wanna know who voted ISFp... it's funny! Nice one.
This is what I was talking about. I said before he was an INFP, but I realized I was wrong. You can start a seperate thread for him if you'd like, but if you do come up with an actual defense for his type. Think about it, why would I come on here and admit that I was wrong before, if I didn't have good reason to do so?Kurt Cobain ENTp....
That is almost as funny as this thread.
I read both your posts, they're great.I was supplying this thread with a dose of irrationality, in an atempt to see, and to allow other to see, how various people react to that kind of stimulus. I saw marked differences that I attribute to type rather than, people being tired, bored, uninterested...etc. etc.
It may be a mistake to assume type is in play...but I'm not convinced. Simple as dat! I'll take my irrationality elsewhere, thank you very much. I'll take it to...Delta....let's see how they react to it. It's been very interesting seeing the different ways people react to specific stimuli. AND FUN, no, not really, it hasn't been fun. In all actuality, I wanted people to see the different reactions to irrationality and attribute them to type. But most people here are attributing it to simple type variations. A consensus I don't agree with.
If you think your experiment is a failure because the outcome is not as you predicted, then you hinder your chances of being taken seriously by suggesting you wish to adapt reality to fit your conception of it instead of the other way around (Which is directly related to my previous post about typing people).
I understand when we try to morph reality to fit our conceptions, we end up supporting our biases rather than uncovering truth.
That's not what I meant about my experiment being a failure.
I'm regarding my experiment a failure because it didn't create a clear cut disctinction.
We still don't know how much of "the way people reacted to irrationality" was due to TYPES/FUNCTIONS vs. "UNIQUE QUALITIES/CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCE ect. ect."
"Knowing someone personally," isn't enough either because we are THAT much MORE biased.
They are our friends, our confidants, our pals, and we have a perception of them.
This method also wasn't able to differentiate between functions at play or unique differences at play.
Inconclusive results all the way around.
I'm 100% sure I'm INFP.
I haven't taken the functions test.
I haven't taken any test.
Instead, I see people, I observe people, I hear people, I feel people...and I'm able to differentiate myself from people.
I'm not like...Disco Jo, Joy, Kim, Cone, Megan, Darklord, Sycophant, Rocky etc. etc..
My weaknesses, strengths are different from these people in distinct ways.
Is there a way to pin-point all the ways we're different?
Well, the fine folks at socionics are trying to put all this together.
But it's up to people to see the functional information and identify their weaknesses and strengths properly.
BTW, an INFp who feels confident enough to divulge what they perceive/understand is a rarity.
I'd never do this if I wasn't seeing/feeling/hearing a REAL perceived difference in functions between myself/Disco Jo/Joy.
Prove it? I tried an intertype experiment, it didn't work, it was inconclusive. Others try tests, others ask people to try and type them...etc. etc.
The solution? Know yourself and others. Have the courage to look at your real, true, inherent, weaknesses/strengths and have the courage to look at other peoples real, true, inherent weaknesses/strengths.
=)
ummm don't you think you're making a lot of assumptions?I'm not like...Disco Jo, Joy, Kim, Cone, Megan, Darklord, Sycophant, Rocky etc. etc..
=)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote