Ne/Fe/Se/Te as potential or kinetic energy

[FDG]

I can see why Ti people may disagree though. They might want to find a way to connect them to each other when they should more be compared/contrasted than connected.

FUCK THIS SHIT

YOU CAN'T DEEM AS TI EVERYBODY THAT DISAGREES WITH YOU, [edited] THAT DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK SHE'S TALKING ABOUT

[FDG]

In a way, maybe. The "step" "between" Ne and Se would be Ti or Fi (I laughed because you said it was Ti specifically without any mention of Fi)

You still haven't understood the theory then. Fi changes Se into Ne, not the opposite. Remember that Ti is a well-defined function, and Fi isn't. How can a not-well-defined function change a not-well defined function into a well-defined one? You have ENTp->ESTp and ISFj->INFj, but not INFj->ISTj. That's why I did not mention Fi. Study more!

Adapting the body to the surrounding chain-recurring acts of physical activity. It can be said that everything is happening with us and around us is the same chain of acts of physical activity. A chain of acts of physical activity was a four stroke internal combustion engine:

Well it's Te actually
Augusta is actually very clear here in her description. It's a 4 stroke engine

Ne Fe Se Te ---> Ne Fe Se Te

She says that in this manner the various aspects of reality is differentiated by our perception.
Our type and function model are the preferences that we hold towards these information aspects.

But the world is not made of only a single object, many objects exist within our perception, and how objects relate with other objects and how we perceive these processes are introverted functions.

Seems like we're just talking about different things here. I'm speaking about how information travels in a single person. A Ne-accepting person wants to use Se? He-She must go through Ti to do it. A Se-creative person wants to use Ne? He-She must go through Fi to use it. It's obvious because if you want to go from well-defined extraverted percetion from not-well-defined extraverted percetion, you need to go through not-well-defined introverted judgement. The same applies to Ne->Ti->Se. How in hell can I go from Ne to Fi to Se? Not well defined->not well defined->defined...wtf? Do you get it now?

To anybody that says that Joy's idea are more simple, thus better: this is a misapplication of Occam's razor. If she just spouts out shit that is easy to understand, that doesn't mean her shit is better than other people's more complicated posts.

[Mariano Rajoy]

I can see why Ti people may disagree though. They might want to find a way to connect them to each other when they should more be compared/contrasted than connected.

FUCK THIS SHIT

YOU CAN'T DEEM AS TI EVERYBODY THAT DISAGREES WITH YOU, [edited] THAT DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK SHE'S TALKING ABOUT

I am Ti, and I disagree with Joy.

[FDG]

I can see why Ti people may disagree though. They might want to find a way to connect them to each other when they should more be compared/contrasted than connected.

FUCK THIS SHIT

YOU CAN'T DEEM AS TI EVERYBODY THAT DISAGREES WITH YOU, FUCKING WHORE THAT DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK SHE'S TALKING ABOUT

I am Ti, and I disagree with Joy.

Yeah but the reverse implication isn't necessarly true

[Joy]

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with me. It's about seeing the world primarily as a system of logical connections.

[Angel von Himmel]

I can see why Ti people may disagree though. They might want to find a way to connect them to each other when they should more be compared/contrasted than connected.

FUCK THIS SHIT

YOU CAN'T DEEM AS TI EVERYBODY THAT DISAGREES WITH YOU, [edited] THAT DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK SHE'S TALKING ABOUT

*clap* *clap* *clap* *edit* *clap* ...

[Joy]

Thanks, mcnew.

Is it me or is the problem that Joy and FDG are just talking about different things?

Yeah. I'm not going to get into it though.

[Logos]

I can see why Ti people may disagree though. They might want to find a way to connect them to each other when they should more be compared/contrasted than connected.

FUCK THIS SHIT

YOU CAN'T DEEM AS TI EVERYBODY THAT DISAGREES WITH YOU, [edited] THAT DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK SHE'S TALKING ABOUT

Well there goes Joy's typing method.

[Joy]

Actually, lately I've taken up a method that was brought up by bionicgoat a while back.

[Logos]

Actually, lately I've taken up a method that was brought up by bionicgoat a while back.

And which four types are on the d20 twice?

[Joy]

The quadras, for hard to type people.

[Logos]

The quadras, for hard to type people.

Good answer.

[Joy]

The quadras, for hard to type people.

Good answer.

but there should also be one that says "the world may never know"

[Joy]

Why not just stick with the energy conversions that are actually in the model?

I don't know... I've not studied this model you speak of. Was it another of Augusta's? (She's ILE, so it wouldn't surprise me. )

[Logos]

The quadras, for hard to type people.

Good answer.

but there should also be one that says "the world may never know"

Such ambiguity should be discouraged. There is only Truth with a capital "Te."

[Joy]

The quadras, for hard to type people.

Good answer.

but there should also be one that says "the world may never know"

Such ambiguity should be discouraged. There is only Truth with a capital "Te."

Funny pun indeed, but I think Te types (Gamma Te types, in any case) are less inclined than many to talk about an absolute "truth". One should always be open to new information.

static connections vs. dynamic objects/subjects (in and of themselves)

[spoil:602677d2bf]I should think of a more effective and efficient way of saying "external" sometimes soon [/spoil:602677d2bf]

[Joy]

wow

[munenori2]

You know what hitta? You're absolutely right - man you're soooo far ahead of everyone else, you're just wasting your time here! I HIGHLY recommend that you form your own site, with your own ideas, and stop bothering with us worms here. After all, you should realize by now that none of us are in your league for brains (except maybe phaedrus, tcaudilllg and labcoat). In fact, I have a splendid idea for you!! The four of you can get together and form your own site, a little club of genius brains if you will, and you won't have to worry with any of the peons at this site!! Think of the possibilities!! Endless ruminations completed disconnected from that annoying reality!

I see what you're saying, and I agree wholeheartedly. I wouldn't go so far as to include tcaud and labcoat though. Granting that I'm a relative newcomer and don't have access to the full on history of these things, I have to say that (and this goes more for tcaud than labcoat in my experience) that he's settled down quite a bit and, while he might go at it from the more abstract angle, he's gotten quite a bit more constructive and non-confrontational in presenting his views.

I've been trying to withhold my judgement on Hitta since I've arrived, but there just doesn't seem to be any compromising or anything on his part. He's wholly and thoroughly self-convinced about his rightness. Maybe, in the future, he could take a step back and try to look at things from other perspectives, but IME he hasn't shown he can do that at all. In a sad way, I can see this applying to him (not that I'm offering any sort of concrete diagnosis, just sounds like it 'hits' him on a few levels):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusional_disorder

[FDG]

Why not just stick with the energy conversions that are actually in the model?

Transducer A: [8567 4123]
1: -Ni => -Fi => -Si => -Ti => -Ni
2: -Ne => -Fe => -Se => -Te => -Ne
3: +Ni => +Ti => +Si => +Fi => +Ni
4: +Ne => +Te => +Se => +Fe => +Ne

Transducer B: [2341 6785]
1: -Ni => -Fe => -Si => -Te => -Ni
2: -Ne => -Fi => -Se => -Ti => -Ne
3: +Ni => +Te => +Si => +Fe => +Ni
4: +Ne => +Ti => +Se => +Fi => +Ne

Regardless of whether we view the transducer as A or B, the other is implied once we include the i/e switch: [7856 3412].

Note: The item in bold is the only place where what Augusta says fits with model A.

Augusta often refers to (S, N) as the states and (T, F) as the processes. If (S, N) are the states, then the processes are (producing S, producing N), not (T, F). For now, I will just use p1 for producing S, and p2 for producing N.

N: potential energy?
S: kinetic energy?

p1: potential energy => kinetic energy?
p2: kinetic energy => potential energy?

What distinction is she trying to make with the i/e switch? With transducer A it seems that it is basically switching accepting and producing. So it seems that we have two types of transducer: accepting and producing.

I'm not sure, but my initial impression is:
Introversion: Signal => Reception <=> Transduction <=> Response(s) => Reception
Extroversion: Signal => Reception <=> Transduction <=> Response(s) => Reception

This still leaves the direction switch: [1432 5876]. And once again I am at a loss as to what she is doing.

I find your analysis to be perfect except for the fact that I disagree on the existence of transducer A. It is simply not consistent to compare dynamic functions with static functions - transition can only occur from dynamic to dynamic and from static to static. Obviously I am not speaking about interaction between different subjects but rather about how information travels in a single person.

This way you can unify A and B, and then separate them on the basis of pertainance to the s/d dichotomy, effectively creating a structure that can emulate information processing in different temperaments - EJ IJ IP EP.

[Logos]

Funny pun indeed, but I think Te types (Gamma Te types, in any case) are less inclined than many to talk about an absolute "truth". One should always be open to new information.

static connections vs. dynamic objects/subjects (in and of themselves)

I am not sure if that is always the case though and I am not really talking about absolute truth in terms of underlying phenomenon, but in terms of empiricism. However dynamic as it may be, Te-dominants typically assert that while their knowledge of truth changes, that the truth in and of itself does not necessarily change in the grand scheme of things.

[FDG]

Yeah Gamma types are honest, open minded, intelligent, and everybody else is close-minded, stupid, and emotionally manipulative. And if you disagree with me, you're close minded, thus you're not gamma, thus you're also stupid and emotionally manipulative. We got it, Joy

[Joy]

cry some more

[Hitta]

Hell, the only thing I've asked for since I've posted my theory is for someone to tell me why I am wrong, but it seems like people are short of answers. People just simply say I'm wrong an move forward without reason. If you don't know the "why?" when it comes to things, then nothing is valid. I challenge anyone to tell me why my theory is wrong. Instead I'll probably get someone to tell me how stupid I am for trying to create a better model, or someone will tell me that nothing I say can be valid because its not "accepted" or whatever. I'm tired of sifting through the bullshit here. If you don't have reasons for your statements, I don't wanna even hear your statements. I've put too much mental energy into thinking my model out that I'm not gonna be told I'm wrong just because you don't like my model, or the descriptions I made don't fit you or blah blah blah. I have said before that I believe that -Ne/+Ni and -Si/+Se are more willing to stick to the existing balances of forces; that they do not like originality in things. All this forums has done is prove that.

[Expat]

If you don't have reasons for your statements, I don't wanna even hear your statements.

Why should we care about what you want to hear or not? Please answer me that.

or the descriptions I made don't fit you or blah blah blah.

Not "we" -- they don't fit real human beings, except your fictional people and your ESFj friend or whatever.

[Hitta]

just another question, if ESFps and ISFjs are suppose to be people that like to fit in, and have fun and party and such, why would they want to be with someone that does everything in his/her power to be different?

[Expat]

just another question, if ESFps and ISFjs are suppose to be people that like to fit in, and have fun and party and such, why would they want to be with someone that does everything in his/her power to be different?

Didn't you read the Russian article by Augusta on all the 8 dualities and how and why they work? I posted it to you twice. The answer is there (as well as in many other places).

And you DARE say you understand true classical socionics? That is precisely the kind of question that socionics addresses.

[Jarno]

just another question, if ESFps and ISFjs are suppose to be people that like to fit in, and have fun and party and such, why would they want to be with someone that does everything in his/her power to be different?

haha

[Hitta]

If you don't have reasons for your statements, I don't wanna even hear your statements.

Why should we care about what you want to hear or not? Please answer me that.

or the descriptions I made don't fit you or blah blah blah.

Not "we" -- they don't fit real human beings, except your fictional people and your ESFj friend or whatever.

Well I've been referred to as being unreasonable, but if I have nothing to reason with, how can I be reasonable?

[Expat]

cry some more

[Hitta]

its QQ more.... sheesh haven't you ever played wow

[FDG]

cry some more

Go to hell, manipulative [edit].

[Blaze]

cry some more

Go to hell, manipulative whore.

Why do you dislike Joy so much?

prolly cause it seems like she disses quadra values other than gamma.

[FDG]

cry some more

Go to hell, manipulative whore.

Why do you dislike Joy so much?

She's...manipulative. Extremely so.

By the way, I understand now what you meant with the transition. However I don't know if you're right, I'm right, or we're speaking about different and compatible things maybe?

[Joy]

Don't mind me. Just felt like pointing that out.

[Joy]

(I am interested in at some point taking a look at the information you posted though, Kioshi. Looks like it could be interesting.)

[Joy]

unlikely

[FDG]

Every NT can use Ti, Joy. If you notice, before being able to understand hkkmr's Ti, I needed a clarification.

[Gilly]

Joy, stop being silly. I've pointed out abundant Ti in your posts before. It's fucking rampant on this forum, exactly as it should be, so quit being a douchemonster about it

[Joy]

First of all, I was only commenting on the content of their posts. It wasn't intended to be negative in any way. It was mostly for those who don't understand what Ti looks like.

Secondly, there's a difference between simply having strong Ti and having Ti > Te (or we wouldn't be here). Kioshi says he's IEI and I've seen absolutely no reason to doubt that, so perhaps he would be an example of that in this thread. The content of his post was Ti. He also appeared Ti > Te. (The two don't have to be related. Ti information can be processed and then presented in a Te manner, and vice versa. And, perhaps more significant, we all use all of our functions.)

But again, I wasn't trying to type anyone here. Just pointing out that their posts in this thread were an example of the manifestation of Ti (whether strong or weak, valued or unvalued).