I agree with the Ti one a lot.
D-SEI 9w1
This is me and my dual being scientific together
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I sort of agree and sort of disagree. the hidden agendas conclusions are closely related with the dominant function. It is like a difficulty in communicating the intimate workings of the dominant function. im not willing to entirely dismiss it as baseless and foolish. these are accurate descriptions of the surface perceptions other people will have of the HA at times. on an intimate level i think it is better described as an area of passion, conflict and poor communication.
here is Bruce Lee on his hidden agenda:
What he is saying is brilliant but he's going out on a limb and he is vulnerable to criticism.
Last edited by crazedrat; 02-19-2010 at 03:03 PM.
Yeah, I don't like the idea of compromising your principles in a situation, it's like losing your personality to me... However, I'm pretty open to some areas of morality being subjective, and to the possibility that I am wrong (which might just be E6 behavior).
I know what Expat was getting at. It's dealing with a brick wall of morality where nothing gets through.
I think especially in situations where you don't want to take responsibility for your ethical mistakes and feel vulnerable to others judgment upon you, and see no problem with your judgment, and you stand up for yourself and can't take others criticism into consideration (until much later when you're alone contemplating on your wrong-doing, and might go back to your closest friend to let him know how you were wrong). To me it seems like more of a social defense mechanism.
HA doesn't have to be annoying to other people as well, it's when you start to overdo it to maybe hide some other aspects of your personality that you think are lacking.
Yeah, it shows as an obvious defense mechanism.
Btw, I think your avatar is of a wolf, not a dog .
It's a dog that can shapeshift, and often carries himself a dynamically changing wolf form, the melds into more of a softer dog form. It depends on when you catch him. He's hard to see. Since he has natural skill in altering the lighting around him, a judgment to say he is a wolf is only expected.
edit; HA generally does not exist
Last edited by Skeptic; 12-31-2010 at 10:32 PM.
We have already done the math and we know it's correct...do some math and tell me what you come up with...so far people tell me they use hair color to type people, that's the strangest thing I've ever heard...I didn't know that people's brain cells were located in their hair color...funny.
-
Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I like to think of it as a cover-up for our PoLR. We strive to become better at it like our role, but we actually think it is an important aspect that needs to be covered unlike our role. Meanwhile, we complete disregard our PoLR so it can come off as unbalanced or unchecked, so it might stand out.
I don't think popularity is necessarily what Fe HA aim for. It might be a bit closer to say they aim to affect others emotionally. Making them laugh or the like, but they tend to overstep boundaries and step on toes inadvertently.
I agree with this. I think they can also tend towards a lack of justification for their ideas and beliefs.: unshakeable and stubborn defense of ideas and beliefs against all opposition, with unwillingness to even discuss the possibility of their not being correct
I think this is a small part, but I think it's more accurate that they tend towards being presumptuous of where they stand with others. They may assume that you are their best friend, that you are interested in them, or that you are their biggest enemy without any consideration for Fe-signals.unshakeable and stubborn unwillingness to compromise on personal behavior and principles against all opposition in a social situation
I agree, with emphasis on focusing on irrelevant non-essentials. They may assume things are true or necessary without structuring and comparing their thoughts.: behavior aimed at showing how competent you are in handling practical and financial affairs, or in how much knowledge in a particular subject you have, but painfully focusing on non-essentials to the point made
Overly presumptuous of causal relationships, and a tendency to stick to particular track with lack of consideration for things to go awry.: unshakeable belief that you know exactly what is going to happen in your life in a given situation, or precipitated action since you know that "now is the time to act", but ending up shooting your own foot in both cases
I disagree with this. I think Se-HA have the tendency to push themselves too hard and wear themselves out. They feel that they have the willpower to keep going without consideration for their physical needs.: behavior aimed at showing how successful, rich, or physically strong and brave and confrontational you are, when others can see you're none of them
What expat described is only superficially related to Se and is possibly somewhat related but definitely not heavily.
I think this is somewhat related, but I think it's closer to say that Si-HA can become overly perfectionistic or safe when it comes to their health and don't realize their own willpower to overcome problems.: showing off how wiser you are than others in taking care of your health by good food and avoiding personal risks, but making you look like a paranoid pussy-wimp. Also, an essentially unphysical person trying to show off how they master daily details in administration, maintainance, housekeeping, etc
This may be somewhat related, but I think it's more relevant to say that they tend towards doing too much extra work and not knowing exactly what is necessary to reach particular goals. Instead, they cover all things which they believe to be important.: behavior aiming at showing how original and creative you can be, but making too much out of obvious and trivial ideas.
Ohhh yeah whoops. I don't know what to do in situations where the Ni creative is quite clear where things are going, then I act, and then they overreact? so i don't act after that and then there's an incredible Ni push for me to do something, and i don't know whether to take them seriously anymore and lose my se confidence to do anything, so i wait for them to do something se-related, which they never do. oh this brings back memories. i must seem bipolar.
Also how would an ESI be overly presumptions? I would think an LIE would be much more inclined to do that??? LSI I could understand but ESI???
I'm not sure I understood that.
Se-creative will take initiative in situations without being fully aware of what will happen. They do consider outcomes and consequences and may consider themselves fairly proficient at it, but they don't leave much room for error. The base element is irrelevant to this processes.Also how would an ESI be overly presumptions? I would think an LIE would be much more inclined to do that??? LSI I could understand but ESI???
Ni-creative are naturally very in-tune to the fact that things aren't as they appear. Their predictions are much more accurate and detailed, and they are quick to adjust their predictions to new possibilities. Of course this leads to weakness elsewhere.
Both are making assumptions in a sense because that is the nature of Ni, but Se-creatives are overconfident while Ni-creatives are naturally more focused on creating accurate predictions.
showing off how wiser you are than others in taking care of your health by good food and avoiding personal risks, but making you look like a paranoid pussy-wimp. Also, an essentially unphysical person trying to show off how they master daily details in administration, maintainance, housekeeping, etc
behavior aimed at showing how competent you are in handling practical and financial affairs, or in how much knowledge in a particular subject you have, but painfully focusing on non-essentials to the point made
Or you could go this way with maritsa, misuing both Te and Si focusing on all her bogus VI techniques and talking about how sensitive her body is and how N's are total babies.
good observation, i think
haha
yeah, thats annoying, ugh
so true
good post
lol
aww, LSIs so much!!!
very good description, very true in my experiences
How to hurt someone the most based on their HA (not recommended):
: express your dislike for them; make them feel unloveable; spread negative stories/rumours about them and make others (even worse: their friends!) hate them for them
: tell them they are stupid; show them how all things they know about are based on incorrect information
: steal their car; burgle their house; borrow their money and never give it back; live on their expense (to their detriment)
: make them feel irrevocably flawed and incapable of improving themselves and their condition
: break up with them and then tell them you did so because they have never showed any true love for you
: do not acknowledge their point of view; ridicule their grasp on a favourite theory of theirs; tell them they are too illogical to understand, or that nothing they say ever makes any sense
: threaten their health; make them become sick (by abandoning them)
: make them believe the apocalypse is near, but it is unclear what will happen and there is nothing they can do about it; make them doubt everything they believe in
Last edited by Aylen; 08-15-2015 at 01:10 AM. Reason: typo
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
So if I focus on my HA alot, but dont come across as a stubborn unyielding know it all... does that mean im a mothafuckin Gangsta?
Sweet.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
: do not acknowledge their point of view; ridicule their grasp on a favourite theory of theirs; tell them they are too illogical to understand, or that nothing they say ever makes any sense
That's not hurtful, just really really annoying.
Can someone tell me how HA interact into the Socionics Model A theory, how they affect other functions into the Model A? In which way their need of thirst is affecting the person psyche (in way of Model A's understanding, Socionics way).
And can someone tell me, how considering those structural interaction told by Model A's theory one is to behave empirically onto the exterior world or on himself if the HA is introverted?
Thanks.
An Empirical behavior to an Introverted mechanism, man im not sure empirical is possible unless you stretch the definition (verifiable by observation)
But Comfort/Intrigue/stimulation, when coming from another. I mean, it's essentially the Aspect that Illusionary & Dual share with a type.
An Introverted HA means an introverted Type. So, something observable is that it gets the introvert to express themselves.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
How to hurt someone the most based on their HA (not recommended):
: express your dislike for them; make them feel unloveable; spread negative stories/rumours about them and make others (even worse: their friends!) hate them for them <- really really
: tell them they are stupid; show them how all things they know about are based on incorrect information <-
: steal their car; burgle their house; borrow their money and never give it back; live on their expense (to their detriment) <-
: make them feel irrevocably flawed and incapable of improving themselves and their condition <-
: break up with them and then tell them you did so because they have never showed any true love for you <- total
: do not acknowledge their point of view; ridicule their grasp on a favourite theory of theirs; tell them they are too illogical to understand, or that nothing they say ever makes any sense <-
: threaten their health; make them become sick (by abandoning them) <- (as in hunt them down to get the last word in)
: make them believe the apocalypse is near, but it is unclear what will happen and there is nothing they can do about it; make them doubt everything they believe in <- If I fell for this tactic it would just make me feel crazy at first and then naive.
*based on previous experience but no absolutes
Last edited by Aylen; 08-15-2015 at 05:22 AM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I don't know Suz, I think some people are kinda turned on by a partner being hyperlogical and emotionally distant, it's like a thrill to them to try and get them to feel something.Wouldn't it be annoying to just about anyone, though??
I've always been unsatisfied with the -HA. Oh no! You coughed on me bleh. I mean, I can just get over being sick. I think what might make me more paranoid is making me think I can't control my body. Maybe you convince me every food is bad for you except for some obscure grain, and so I go out of my way to eat that grain alone. I dunno. -HA is so lame, it's such an uncool insecurity.
Warm Regards,
Clowns & Entropy
Warm Regards,
Clowns & Entropy
@Schildmaid, I said that when I thought Se was my mobilizing function. Whoops.
I am confused, as I don't see a post I made anywhere on this thread. But anyways, I thought the mobilizing function was something that you were good at sometimes but not others depending on the situation, and in any case it draws you towards it. With Se I see them usually being into action, practicality, even violence. It does make a good insult but not because you're always bad at it because from what I've seen you're not. And the descriptions I've seen on other sites are way oversimplified and/or off...
I tagged you because I got a notification that you liked an old post.
I do agree though. It's not a useless function. It's often pretty apparent and decent enough that sometimes it can even be mistaken for the lead. It will never have the same nuanced understanding and situational application as strong functions though.