Lets talk about Activity Relations, your stories and experiences

[stevENTj]

I remember reading something about the Russian studies a looooong time ago and that they did find that the number of dual marriages was surprisingly common among the different types of relationships, but still not a majority. With 14 different type relations there's a 7% chance of any given relationship. I thought they found that maybe 30-40% of married couples were duality which bucks the trend big time, but that's still not a majority. I haven't paid much attention to this lately though, so maybe I'm wrong and there's some newer studies out.

Not scientific, but is there any member here who's in a married Duality?

[FDG]

I remember reading something about the Russian studies a looooong time ago and that they did find that the number of dual marriages was surprisingly common among the different types of relationships, but still not a majority. With 14 different type relations there's a 7% chance of any given relationship. I thought they found that maybe 30-40% of married couples were duality which bucks the trend big time, but that's still not a majority.

It is a majority of course, a relative majority. I mean, you could organize relationships in a dichotomous way and say that duality is not a majority in comparison to non-duality, but if we take all 16 possible relatioships then it's clearly a majority, even if not absolute.

(SlackerMom is in a dual marriage among the members, but there aren't that many members above 30)

EDIT: sorry, I just checked and it seems that in American English the term "majority" only refers to 50+1, while in British english can be used for both meanings (and in Italian it's the same as British English)

[stevENTj]

Relative I'd believe, but I was thinking in terms of absolute majority.

[AngelMaybe]

what about activity relations versus duality relations??

[Beautiful sky]

Well look at what each person needs to be happy...

I am INFj, in a previous relationship I was in with ISTp, I experienced a lot of stress because emphasis on efficiency was not a priority to him so we would have boxes of stuff laying around everywhere that would drive me mad; and ISTp unlike ESTj will not take care of stuff right away in terms of repair of doors around the house that squeek and annoy the living daylights out of me...they mean well, my past bf was not a bad person, we weren't right for each other. He also wanted me to step up like his dual would have and take care of work that was business related which is not my game; my dual takes care of business and monitary stuff...

Sexual incompatibility was that I am more active in a long term relationship and getting him to respond to my requests was not working...so to say.

[crazedrat]

note to self: never get into a relationship with an INFj

[Beautiful sky]

In an activity relationship two introverts will come together on the same level as in they don't need one to prompt the other to go out with them as in a dual gender role type setting; they will ask each other out; while with an E and an I, the Introvert will hesitate and wait for the E to ask them out, because they see them as more talkative and ingaging, that is sometimes intimidating to Introverts in not a bad way...but a different way; that's why activity relations are so easy to start; becuase neither E and E or I and I are waiting for the other to ask; they just go out. You see, if introverts realized this about themselves, they would try an E role, just in action so that the duals will go out.

[DirectorAbbie]

I find being with my activator causes me to instantaneously open up where I reveal things frankly in a way I would not to any other type on such a quick basis.

Activation grows like a weed. Personally, I'd rather have an oak.

[Blaze]

i spent some time visiting an old friend who married his mirror. he is ESE she is SEI. they have been married for about 8 years and are starting to have some problems. i spent some time talking with him about dual seeking needs (without calling it that).

so ok this is not an activity marriage so doesn't quite fit the topic except that i wanted to mention one thing. in this marriage the lack of logic is getting to them. he expects her to systematize everything, to be on top of every single detail, following up on all kinds of stuff. he owns his own business, is their daughter's soccer coach, basically typical ESE constantly doing something and taking care of people. she's mellow and laid back doesn't care if the house gets messy, likes to cook, really in no big hurry. so it's like he sees Te stuff as "stuff you have to do and take care of" and expects her to put effort into helping. so he wants her to make lists and stuff like that all of which goes nowhere. she doesn't want to do it nor is she good at it. so, he will do it because "that's what people do." she can't and won't, because she sucks at it and doesn't care.

ok so i'm trying to get to the point which is that i talked with him about systems type of logic and of course his face lit up (dual-seeking lights). he says he even told his wife that's what he wanted her to do when he married her and she said she would. i kinda don't think she can, which is a separate issue. so i contrasted leading Ti vs creative Ti , again without saying anything about types or socionics. so he totally wants a systems person in the house, whereas he actually called my type of creative logic "flim-flam" logic. LOL!!!!!

so the idea of this is that the expectations that activity partners have of each other are slightly off. secondly, in this marriage, too much ethics not enough logic. and, due to dual seeking expectations on my friend's part, things are heating up.

the wife in this couple and i dont' really know each other that well. last time i visited, about 4 years ago, i asked her if she would give me a recipe for something she had made. my friend told me blaze you'll never get a recipe out of her she's possessive and doesn't share them with anybody. well i convinced her to give me the recipe which she did. so this visit she says to me, i don't know why i gave you that recipe i never give ANYBODY a recipe. so i say well i gave you a recipe in exchange. she says yeah i know but i didn't even get it from you until weeks later when you emailed it. i don't know why i gave you that recipe. so i'm like well it's a great recipe and i make it all the time and i haven't given it to anybody else. she looks at me, like, hmmmmmm. like this was kind of a big thing. so i started to think that maybe we were duals. *shrugs* i'm really going off on a tangent here, but my point is that i dont' think there's anything like a dual. i can help my ESE friend a little, but my dual....we just cooperate.

[munenori2]

I don't know why that post made me so happy, Blaze!

[Blaze]

I don't know why that post made me so happy, Blaze!

thanks mune! :wink: i invited my friend's wife to come up and visit...i hope she comes...it would be great to have interaction with a dual!

[MatthewZ]

Ah yes, mirror relations. Same Quadra, Same Club, Opposite Temperaments, and same weaknesses the other can't account for.

[UDP]

Activation grows like a weed. Personally, I'd rather have an oak.

Nicely said.

IEEs are a lot of 'fun' to have around.
But EIIs, mmm, lots of substance

[Beautiful sky]

Why do I have so much trouble with activity relations?
We can talk about similar interests and we seem to value the same things like eating healthy, exercising, organizing, and other activities, but I can never seem to get the loving SLI to do things. I invited my SLI friend to go to the farmer's market with me; I expected him to help me make decisions as to how to spend my money in the most effective way, instead he just went after things that pleased his Si, like going strait for the oyster bar.

I do have a hard time with cooperation too. I told him that I was going to be in too much pain to cook our lunch and I wanted him to do it. I shouldn't have said that. He ended up trashing my kitchen. Thank goodness I refused to have him clean up. I wonder how that would have gone. I don't want to know.

SiTe types as being clean is a stereotype. I wish my dual cousin and I had the day together. It would have been so much more productive. She and I would have made a plan about what to do from the very beginning and would have not only enjoyed our day, but also would have seen and done a lot more. We would have probably agreed that she would do the cooking, as both she and I like to cook and eat at home, it's more economic and healthy that way, and she would have been fine about cooking, plus she would have done it so smoothly and efficiently, with no messes to clean up afterwards.

I felt like I had to clean up after my SLI friend like i have to clean up after my SLI dad. *SLI are just not for me.*

How are your activity relations at their worse?

[krieger]

Activity relations have also proven to be somewhat disappointing in my life. The sharing of Rational/Irrational is a more important factor in the compatibility between types than people typically realize.

[Clumsy]

Anyone with experience in these?

Can these work long term or does the irrational/rational difference eat away at it too much?

[Jonathan]

Activity relations are probably fairly common, and I don't think any relationship is doomed just because it isn't dual.

If you're an IEI, an LSI would probably try to change you to become more organized and efficient. If you want that, it might work.

I get the sense that LSIs like things to be "just so"; when you first get to know them, they may hide this, but later you'll realize they don't like disorder.

There may be times of frustration when you realize you can't be organized enough. But if you're in reasonable control of your life (e.g., not a total slob), that may help.

[Reuben]

@Clumsy

Basically any relationship can work out depending on how much work you want to put in. Duality may require less work, if say other compatibility issues are set in place.

Don't let socio-types decide your relationships!

The challenges an activity partner may pose is the fact that both of you may need some time off each other to 'recharge'. This is expected, so don't be surprised if your partner suddenly doesn't seem so desirable to be with at the moment (not because you suddenly detest that person but because it's just too much good things to take in ).

[Cat King Cole]

We already have a long-standing Activity marriage on the forums in the form of stevENTj and his ESI wife.

That said, my experience was awful. I will never date or consider a long-term relationship with anyone that isn't an Alpha Introtim after that.

[Nowisthetime]

Anyone with experience in these?

Can these work long term or does the irrational/rational difference eat away at it too much?

Activation is very common. I've known my LII friend for over 20 years. Especially when subtypes are compatible, they can be very good. Like Lennon & McCartney (C-ILE + H-ESE).

[Beautiful sky]

Don't let socio-types decide your relationships!

.

I stand at an exact opposite view point from you on this matter. I think relationships that are not based on good understanding and communication can significantly degrade their workability. A lot of this understanding and communication style stems from what you're willing to listen to, from your partner, what you can/want to change about your own self, how far you can go out from what you really are without causing neurosis within you. I don't think you're seeing the multitude of directions this is branching from...anyway. A lot of what a good relationship is has to do with Socionics, IMO.

My ex was my activity relation. My Fi over-activated his and he, at the slight suggestion, took off talking/judging based on Fi and there's no new food being added to the relationship when this happens. At his Si and suggestion of, we got very little real things done. I couldn't get him to do more Te, gather facts, talk about them, and do work like an LSE does, with regimented kinds of thinking; it was hard because he sometimes he didn't know what to eat and so we had to wait to see what he felt like and tremendous time and frustration on my part went by before decisions could be made.

[Exodus]

Based on my experience, you will have issues with the two-introvert thing. It's hard to keep the relationship stimulating, to keep from getting into a rut.

I hardly see any long-term relationships between two Es or two Is, but activation is certainly the best among them.

[Jonathan]

My ex

But how much can one extrapolate from your bad experience (or others' good experiences)?

Socionics may help one make intellectual sense of what's happening (or may happen) in a given relationship. But a lot depends on the individual cases, so extrapolating is difficult.

The problem with basing relationships on Socionics is that there are so many different points of view about what anyone's type is, so you can never be 100% certain what kind of relations you're in anyway....plus everybody's type is probably in constant flux to some degree.

In my experience, the two-introvert thing isn't a problem. Often, two introverts are perfectly comfortable staying at home and not having to mingle or be "drawn out." However, often one or both may highly social despite being Socionics introverts.

[InkStrider]

Can these work long term or does the irrational/rational difference eat away at it too much?

I think it makes for a mutually agreeable pair. Never had a romantic relationship with one but friendships work fine.

I stand at an exact opposite view point from you on this matter. I think relationships that are not based on good understanding and communication can significantly degrade their workability. A lot of this understanding and communication style stems from what you're willing to listen to, from your partner, what you can/want to change about your own self, how far you can go out from what you really are without causing neurosis within you. I don't think you're seeing the multitude of directions this is branching from...anyway. A lot of what a good relationship is has to do with Socionics, IMO.

Duality probably works well for you because you so happened to have found partner/s who conform to your expectations of what you need in a relationship, who to you also happened to fall neatly under a particular "type", namely the LSE.

The problem with basing relationships on Socionics is that there are so many different points of view about what anyone's type is, so you can never be 100% certain what kind of relations you're in anyway....plus everybody's type is probably in constant flux to some degree.

My view exactly. And one that is not without opposition.

[redbaron]

My ex was my activity relation. My Fi over-activated his and he, at the slight suggestion, took off talking/judging based on Fi and there's no new food being added to the relationship when this happens. At his Si and suggestion of, we got very little real things done. I couldn't get him to do more Te, gather facts, talk about them, and do work like an LSE does, with regimented kinds of thinking; it was hard because he sometimes he didn't know what to eat and so we had to wait to see what he felt like and tremendous time and frustration on my part went by before decisions could be made.

So you and Matt aren't an item anymore, eh?

I thought Matt was LSE.

[Nico1e]

My best friend at college was a female EII. We spent a huge amount of time together. She told me, when she married her husband, that she had looked for a man who was very logical, like I was - she said that she had looked for something like a male version of me. I saw him, and he was even more logical than I am, which means he is probably her LSE dual. But anyway I'm the one who helped her realize what she wanted out of a relationship.

I suspect that my first serious boyfriend might have been an EII. I'm really not sure. He and I were constantly fighting, but that's because 1. he was on drugs, and 2. he came from an abusive family, and was always having issues with them, and 3. we were both young and immature and didn't know what we were doing, and 4. we weren't having sex, we were just making out with each other, so there was no way to express the energy. We were together for maybe three years. I think the relationship could have continued if those other factors hadn't been a problem - the drugs, the family, whatever.

After being with my IEE best friend (middle school and high school) I knew that I wanted all my future relationships to feel like that. I thought it was just a miraculous fluke. So that's why I was so happy with socionics when I learned about duals and learned that this 'fluke' could happen again.

But the suspected EII relationship was also very intense and passionate. I felt like I loved him more intensely than any guy I had ever been with. There really are very strong feelings with activators. But I have never been in a relationship with an EII male since I was an adult, and I almost never date anyone, and I have very few relationships. So I don't know how it could be in an ideal situation as mature adults. It's all based on vague memories of a guy whose type I'm not absolutely sure of.

I remember it was this sort of hell torture addiction of pain and desperation, and it wasn't the relaxed ease of being with my other best friend the IEE. So there is a difference in the relaxation level.

Anyway the female EII college best friend was a much more stable relationship. We spent time together and time apart. However, I compared that relationship to my other best friend the IEE, and felt as though the IEE understood me better and like I could totally be myself with her. I could completely open up my inner world and describe my most bizarre thoughts and experiences and they would be instantly accepted.

I have wondered whether activators might be better at encouraging each other to 'get stuff done.' Like I've wondered if being with an activator would help me accomplish goals. However, I'm thinking of a dual who I greatly admire, and how, after reading that person, I was motivated to make some life changes. So the motivation for change can occur even in a 'perceiver-perceiver' relationship.

I always had this idea that if two perceiving types (irrationals, ending with P in the Myers-Briggs) were together, they would do nothing except float away on endless conversations, and yeah, that sort of happens, but - it's been so long since I had a real-world IEE friend that I don't know what it would be like today. As far as I know, I have never dated an IEE male.

I was with an ILE from about 1998 to 2005 or so, but it was only a partially fulfilling relationship and I always felt lonely and felt like something was missing, and so did he. However, I learned a lot of things in that relationship, and all the imaginary dangers of two irrationals being together didn't happen. Anyway the fear of having two irrationals together is one reason why I myself wondered what an activator relation would be like. But in the long run I will be with duals, that's if I can set myself free from the hell hole that my life is stuck in right now.

Based on my experience, the relaxed relationship would be better for me, but the activator relations could indeed work out over time, and I'd say it's worth a try, and there are examples of people who are doing it.

[Nico1e]

I suspect that the 'fear of two rationals/irrationals being together' is a remnant that comes along with learning the Myers-Briggs before learning socionics. People who learned socionics first wouldn't have that fear.

[squark]

Anyone with experience in these?

Can these work long term or does the irrational/rational difference eat away at it too much?

I had a close friendship with an IEI. I'll try to keep it to main points, but forgive me if I start reminiscing, 'cuz I miss him.

No problems whatsoever on the rational/irrational front. I didn't even notice it. Sometimes he even seemed more like the "rational" like when we'd go to the movies. For movies, I always figured it was best to show up a little late, and miss most of the previews, but that pissed him off to have to wait for me, because he wanted the "whole movie experience" lol, which included getting your popcorn and drink and sitting through the previews, the whole thing. And he'd bitch at me if I was late. It's funny, because sometimes we'd sneak into other movies that were already in progress after watching the one we came to see. But still, he insisted we get to the theater early.

We had a really easy friendship, were comfortable with each other, and could talk about anything. Everyone started assuming we were a couple. Even our good friends, though I don't know what gave them that idea. It might have been just that we were always together. But, maybe not, because people thought that even when first meeting us. His parents thought so too, even though he told them we were just friends.

He was my best friend. We knew each other better than anyone. Hung out constantly. Our friendship ended not for any socionics reasons. It ended because I let him down by being a judgemental bitch when he needed my support instead. That led to bickering about other stupid little things. And then, he started dating someone and moved away with him before we had a chance to make things right.

I became depressed after he left. At the time, I was sad that he left but didn't think it really affected me that much. It's only in hindsight that I think the depression was caused by that.

There are no real socionics clashes that I can think of with the IEI. Well. . . sometimes the IEI didn't want to go out and do anything, just wanted to stay home and watch TV when I wanted to do something. That happened once or twice. Could be IP related. But it was no big deal. I just told him he was being boring, lol. And I'm uh, kind of blunt and sometimes judgemental.

It was just a friendship, and not very long-term. We became friends in high school, and he moved away our 2nd year of college. But, I don't see any socionics-related problems with this activity relation. We didn't really have any. No introvert-introvert stagnation, no J/P clash, really no problems to speak of, just a really easy, fun, close friendship that got screwed up primarily by external circumstances and never had the chance to repair.

[redbaron]

I thought Matt was LSE.

They broke up, so that means they're not duals anymore.

You know how it works around here.

I don't think they broke up. At least not according to facebook and isn't that the final authority? LOL

[Nico1e]

I had a close friendship with an IEI. I'll try to keep it to main points, but forgive me if I start reminiscing, 'cuz I miss him.

I enjoyed reading your reminiscence. I like the idea of 'getting to the movies early so you can see the previews and have the whole movie experience,' and how oddly enough he was the one who insisted on getting there early. And sneaking into other movies halfway through. It sounds like you two had a great time together.

[squark]

I had a close friendship with an IEI. I'll try to keep it to main points, but forgive me if I start reminiscing, 'cuz I miss him.

I enjoyed reading your reminiscence. I like the idea of 'getting to the movies early so you can see the previews and have the whole movie experience,' and how oddly enough he was the one who insisted on getting there early. And sneaking into other movies halfway through. It sounds like you two had a great time together.

Oh yeah, we had a ton of fun together. One of us would get an idea and we'd just run with it even if it was silly, from storm chasing, to trespassing and having to run/hide from the police, to just finding interesting things to talk about, or hanging out doing nothing, rollerblading in the middle of the night, climbing on roofs, whatever, it was always fun.

[Nico1e]

I enjoyed reading your reminiscence. I like the idea of 'getting to the movies early so you can see the previews and have the whole movie experience,' and how oddly enough he was the one who insisted on getting there early. And sneaking into other movies halfway through. It sounds like you two had a great time together.

Oh yeah, we had a ton of fun together. One of us would get an idea and we'd just run with it even if it was silly, from storm chasing, to trespassing and having to run/hide from the police, to just finding interesting things to talk about, or hanging out doing nothing, rollerblading in the middle of the night, climbing on roofs, whatever, it was always fun.

Odd. I went through a phase in college where I did exactly those sorts of things - *by myself*. I had this longing for someone to be there with me. I would randomly get some hyperactive impulse, and a lot of the things on your list were things I did. I got in the car and drove miles and miles away to get into the heart of the thunderstorm, where the lightning was striking the ground all around me and I was terrified. I climbed into places where I wasn't allowed to go. I went out and did weird stuff in the middle of the night. I took long walks down random streets. But it was always me, feeling lonely and feeling like nobody really understood me. I just get a sort of nostalgic feeling or an envious feeling.

[Jarno]

Anyone with experience in these?

Can these work long term or does the irrational/rational difference eat away at it too much?

Yes experience personally and I've read some russian descriptions about them.

These relations are very good. I would settle for my activator if she was hot. Duals are better but activation is at some points even better than duality. For example the same introvert/extravert can be very pleasant. Also differing subtypes are best.

The irrational and rational is not a big problem.

if your activator is LSI, watch out for the unhealthy ones, obsessive compulsive, paranoid is a bit too common among them. Then it won't work, I had an obsessive compulsive ESI once, the relationship was great but with a big problem constantly. It just interrupts with how things flow. Very annoying.

[stevENTj]

Coming up on 15 years of bliss with my firey hot ESI/Activity wife.

Basically in complete agreement with Reuben here...

@Clumsy

Basically any relationship can work out depending on how much work you want to put in. Duality may require less work, if say other compatibility issues are set in place.

Don't let socio-types decide your relationships!

The challenges an activity partner may pose is the fact that both of you may need some time off each other to 'recharge'. This is expected, so don't be surprised if your partner suddenly doesn't seem so desirable to be with at the moment (not because you suddenly detest that person but because it's just too much good things to take in ).

[Ver]

I'm in activity relationship myslef. I am ENFp Fi and he is ESTj Si. From the very beginning we felt the connection. This is rather young relationship so I cannot talk about long-term ones, but it is the best relationship I have ever been in so far. It feels just normal, sometimes maybe a bit boring but due to our subtypes it resembles duality. I just think he is the best person in the world . Sometimes I have a feeling that we are totally different but we are definitely similar in terms of values and we want the same. We don't fight at all, whenever I want to start some kind of fight, it just turns into a silly banter and we end up laughing and saying silly things to each other.
As I mentioned, however, it is a very young relationship so we will see in the future. Based on that experience alone I'm definitely for activity relationships (I had INTj, ESTp and ISFp boyfriend before so especially between the last INTj and my current boyfriend the comparison is like hell - heaven ).

[Blaze]

i know an EIE-SLE couple they've been together about 11 years or so by now. their similarity of quadra values are apparent.

they have started to have problems, but i am not sure it's because of socionics. he had a brief affair, she's trying to forgive him. trust stuff going on. i think they prolly will make it. but EIE is quite prideful, i think it's hard for her to let go of her principles. plus SLE is kind of a flirt (a lot of them seem to be) so i could see a potential problem in trusting one once they burned me.

[Exodus]

Based on my experience, you will have issues with the two-introvert thing. It's hard to keep the relationship stimulating, to keep from getting into a rut.

I agree, but it's ok if you're both aware that you need to put in some effort. It's definitely one of the top introvert-introvert relations. Romantic relationships aside, I think activity friendships are pretty awesome

Definitely. I love SEIs, I'd even say it's the best I-I relationship.

[Iwantpeace]

Activity is often ranked as one of the more ideal intertype relations for friendship and dating.
However, I have not found this to be the case as it seems all the ILEs will eventually clash with my leading Fe.
It plays out quite similarly with most ILEs. I meet them, find them quite witty and wacky and chat non-stop with them, then one day they will make a joke on someone's expense or themselves.
Then I will be quietly offended.

With activity relations their HA is your leading function- surely this will cause some issues?

I'm realizing many of my friends and best relations are Ti Doms.. Love those Ti Doms.

Thoughts?

[Pallas]

Activity is often ranked as one of the more ideal intertype relations for friendship and dating.
However, I have not found this to be the case as it seems all the ILEs will eventually clash with my leading Fe.
It plays out quite similarly with most ILEs. I meet them, find them quite witty and wacky and chat non-stop with them, then one day they will make a joke on someone's expense or themselves.
Then I will be quietly offended.

With activity relations their HA is your leading function- surely this will cause some issues?

I'm realizing many of my friends and best relations are Ti Doms.. Love those Ti Doms.

Thoughts?

I don't have that kind of issue in activity. Yeah, there tends to be some conflict, but all human relationships have that, just within quadra it tends to be really smooth in terms of how it works out. You don't have to like everyone in your quadra but if you have problems with most people who you think are in your quadra, then one or more people are mistyped...

[Exodus]

Being quietly offended - that sounds more like Fi? In general I find activity to be very good, although there are times when you wish they would use their creative function more. There is also more competition than in duality. But it's probably the second best relationship in most aspects.