Infiltrating an a beta clique ruled by an ESTp?

[Bardia]

What is the best way to get into a beta clique ruled by an ESTp? Once your in how do you dismantle it so that everyone can be part of the group? (This only has bad connotations because of the individual ESTp. I am not trying to say betas are bad in any way)

[munenori2]

ok, here's the plan. First off, it's gunna take some planning, but your planning can't be obvious or they'll suspect something's up (then they'll getcha)! You better be pretty apt at your psychology and be willing to play things in a way that might not come naturally, but you gotta make it seem for reals. At some point, your Se absolutely imperatively has gotta shine. This might mean cultivating excellence in some kind of sport or intimidating somebody (don't go overboard, but basically don't take shit from nobody). In the presence of friends, show some Fe and try to be part of the group. Let them take the lead and support their ideas (unless they're pretty assinine in which case either say fuck yeah or get out the way). Once you're in, the only way you're going to 'open up' the group is to address the ESTp leadership issue. Either you gotta psychologically convince them that every new member is alright in some fashion or nother, dramatically alter his perspective on the universe, or go for his polr like a wolf to the jugular at some crucial, very public moment!

Haha, don't take me seriously though. Is it like socionical that people become their opposite on the merry-serious scale when they've been slammin some brews? Oh well, total beer post. Honestly, probably should cut down on these or check into rehab or something.

I mean, really, I'll probably regret this when I wake up and I'm less retarded.

[Bardia]

ok, here's the plan. First off, it's gunna take some planning, but your planning can't be obvious or they'll suspect something's up (then they'll getcha)! You better be pretty apt at your psychology and be willing to play things in a way that might not come naturally, but you gotta make it seem for reals. At some point, your Se absolutely imperatively has gotta shine. This might mean cultivating excellence in some kind of sport or intimidating somebody (don't go overboard, but basically don't take shit from nobody). In the presence of friends, show some Fe and try to be part of the group. Let them take the lead and support their ideas (unless they're pretty assinine in which case either say fuck yeah or get out the way). Once you're in, the only way you're going to 'open up' the group is to address the ESTp leadership issue. Either you gotta psychologically convince them that every new member is alright in some fashion or nother, dramatically alter his perspective on the universe, or go for his polr like a wolf to the jugular at some crucial, very public moment!

Haha, don't take me seriously though. Is it like socionical that people become their opposite on the merry-serious scale when they've been slammin some brews? Oh well, total beer post. Honestly, probably should cut down on these or check into rehab or something.

I mean, really, I'll probably regret this when I wake up and I'm less retarded.

lol That's okay I expect a lot of non serious advice to come from this question. In fact I don't know if my question has an answer or if it should.

[Bardia]

why bother? if you want other people to potentially be part of the group, you probably know other people, right? so why not just hang out with the other people instead?

"dismantling a clique"... i have no idea how you'd go about doing that. but in any case it sounds like a bad idea.

maybe it's better if the cliquish people just stick to themselves and you can bring the non-cliquish people together. why cause any more social drama than you need to? (i thought most NT/SF's hated that?)

Yes, I do hate social drama and I don't really cause any. The problem is that I am friends with many people in this clique except for the head ESTp and a few others. My friends are fine when the ESTp leader isn't around, but when the ESTp is around they seem to change and not even notice that they exclude and ignore people, sometimes even other people in the clique. It is generally not a healthy group and causes much social drama because peope fight over authority of the group and the problems flow out to everyone else. Basically, I would like to free my friends from the brainwashing techniques of this particular ESTp and end the social drama of conflicting power and exclusion.

[Ezra]

Simple. You confront them directly. Smash them in the face, and win the group over. Mission accomplished.

[snegledmaca]

Hmm, personally I have been in at least one SLE "clique". Well it's quite simple. You be yourself and the people love you. And then when they act all cliquish you throw in your naturally charm and conflict dismantling abilities, that is, just be yourself and go against the flow "Oh yeah! Well I don't like it *stick tongue out* there! *do something that makes people laugh* but seriously, ... *and start discussing the situation seriously as to why things are wrong and how to overcome the obstacles*". You don't force anything, just offer a realization. People, well, normal people, respond very well to common sense.