Gammas, what do you think about your unvalued information elements?

[liveandletlive]

I'll assume you're not questioning the "backbone of science" bit.

Ti as it relates to "the backbone of society": Our system of government (its three branches, the voting system, the judicial process, the bill of rights, how a bill becomes a law, etc.), organized religion and its rules (whether a Ti type believes them or not is irrelevant), military hierarchy (or governmental, religious, corporate, mafia, etc.), societal standards for "honor" (though certain aspects of "honor" could be attributed to other things, when someone talks about "honor" they're usually referring to some sort of code of behavior or position within a system), familial structure (not the relationships themselves... who likes or loves or hates who... but who is related to who and how, legally or technically speaking), corporate (or other holding entity and law) structure and law (including not for profit organizations), cultural laws/standards (arranged marriages, the first born son being the heir, etc.), international law and foreign policy (though obviously there are other factors as well), codes of ethics, systems of measurement (100 cm = 1 m... okay, now I'm getting closer to science again), political affiliation, associations (such as the PTA), family law, the department of health (or anything else, for that matter), etc.

Policy, laws, rules, systems, etc. These things are the backbone of society... the impartial/impersonal things that provide structure. Without such structure, things like property ownership and insurance would be nonexistent.

(Why do I get the feeling the Ne + Ti types are about to burst in and bitch? Yes, there's a certain degree of Se/aristocracy in some of my examples... I was trying to avoid science/math, you see.)

haha i feel that too... must be ur talking! idk if i agree 100% with ur description...

[liveandletlive]

What I think right now is that concentrates on things that make you feel good, relaxed and balanced, which are obviously very good things to be, arguably they are what's really important.

socionics is supposed to be value-neutral. i don't think it's accurate to give any information element a monopoly on "feeling good"," what's "really important", "balance", "well-being", etc. i think Si addresses these things just to the extent that they involve being calm, relaxed, etc.

i figure i value those things myself more so than the Se/Ni stuff. i figure i am in a "judicious" quadra. but also i figure not everyone is me. and that it's quite possible to "feel good", etc. through other means. for example, an ENTj may not live as relaxed a life as myself. but they might feel just as good (if not more) at the end of the day by being more accomplished.

the ENTj might be just as balanced (if not more) too because i think it's always possible to do Si (or any function) in excess. for example, ISFp's are often described as being "round..." additionally what is "excessive" Si i think varies by quadra. the purpose of quadra values, as i understand them, is largely to account for that.

gamma and beta ("resolute") quadras might work best with a minimum of Si. the different functions might "substitute" for each other somewhat (depending on your values.) everyone needs some Si (and some Ni, Se) but probably not everyone as much as say ISFp.

if you think you do then maybe you are not gamma/beta. but alternatively, maybe it is just your 8th function talking. (i guess if ENFj w/ Si POLR is your dual then you've got to play up the Si somewhat to at least get them the minimum.)

GTGO/just my $0.02. i'm actually not supposed to be on the computer right now

very true with the whole not placing values on IM elements thing... one question that pops into my head is perhaps our own IM elements (that we have in our ego and id) are what we feel most relaxed and comfortable with? Although this is much of what is associated with, an ENTj or an ENFj may feel more uncomfortable in the process of using them. Just some food for thought.

Also, I have been looking into Reinin's dichotomies and have not been able to find any information on the Judiciousness dichotomy... care to explain it? Thanks for mentioning it, I completely forgot I meant to ask you guys.

[PotatoSpirit]

socionics is supposed to be value-neutral. i don't think it's accurate to give any information element a monopoly on "feeling good"," what's "really important", "balance", "well-being", etc. i think Si addresses these things just to the extent that they involve being calm, relaxed, etc.

Not a monopoly, ok (and this goes for calm and relaxed too...), but I feel types have a way of getting there faster than any other type. As if they can feel good with very little. I still don't get btw, so I'm probably wrong.

I also don't think information is defined by those things, it just happens that it has those effects.

[FDG]

I can't see what's better than relaxing under a tree after a long, steep climb during spring. or not

[liveandletlive]

I can't see what's better than relaxing under a tree after a long, steep climb during spring. or not

good point- i'm sure even around 90% of what you consider fun and leisure are because of ...