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    Default LSIs/ISTjs feeling anger and irritation

    Hello, I would like advice from ISTj’s or people who a lot of experience with ISTj’s.


    I work with an ISTj and all around he is a cool guy. He tends to get pretty angry from time to time, ranging anything from dealing with customers to his fellow employees. Sometimes he gets angry towards me, and depending on the reasons for his anger I may either just ignore him or choose to argue back at him. Yesterday we were having a holiday fest and our department had to put people at free sampling stations, I was one of them. I was ordered throughout the time to do certain things that diverted my attention away from our department. After the holiday fest was over with, I managed to do whatever I could, but then I forgot to do a few things that related to cleaning everything up. The ISTj thought that I was creating a situation so that he would have to clean up after me; basically he thought that I was purposely acting against him, and when I tried to explain to him that it was not the case, he basically called me a liar. I was not happy with that at all. I could not help but get angry. I have to work with him, and I swear, I could just strangle this guy. I mean, he is a good guy, I like him, but damn, I can really get into fight with him! Right now, I could just get into his face, but I probably ought to just calm down right now (which is not easy for me to do).

    My questions are this:

    How angry does an ISTj have to get to lose their reasoning ability? Or in another words, is it likely that I can reason with this guy even if he is really angry at me?

    How necessary that an ISTj has to vent off? How long does it take for them to?


    Thanks in advance

    Jimmy
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    Blaze's Avatar
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    i know about 3-4 of these types and generally they are slow to anger but once they are angry they hold a grudge. like for 30 years they'll hold a grudge. they never forget anything.

    in a work situation like the one you are describing, one reason this guy might be giving forth like this is that somebody's coming down on him for some reason and he feels responsible.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Live with an ISTj female. Interactions go like this....... she gets exceeding upset about something and starts to say something untrue. I say "You're wrong and explain why", she's in a fit of anger still, I say "You're wrong and explain why" this time probably in a louder tone. She yells some more. I say "You're wrong explain why" and stare her down. She stare's me down for a second, sees I mean business, and goes off after yelling the whole time. For the next hour or so she'll make snyde remarks so that everyone can hear them. I get into more arguments with her. Couple hours pass or a good night's sleep, and she's back to normal. No grudges on her part.
    Suomea

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suomea
    Live with an ISTj female. Interactions go like this....... she gets exceeding upset about something and starts to say something untrue. I say "You're wrong and explain why", she's in a fit of anger still, I say "You're wrong and explain why" this time probably in a louder tone. She yells some more. I say "You're wrong explain why" and stare her down. She stare's me down for a second, sees I mean business, and goes off after yelling the whole time. For the next hour or so she'll make snyde remarks so that everyone can hear them. I get into more arguments with her. Couple hours pass or a good night's sleep, and she's back to normal. No grudges on her part.
    That's Supervision yeah?

    I'm trying analyse my relationship with this dude on my corridor. I think he's my Supervisor. He just tells me to shut up, or takes snide little digs at me; he scapegoats me daily. He thinks it's all in good humour, but it actually hurts me. I'm not the kind of person to say "you really hurt me with that remark", but I really feel like at this point that I have absolutely fuck all to say in return. I can't be aggressive with him ever.

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    @ Blaze:

    Thank you.


    As a side note, if this is all an example of a supervision relation, then that would further make a good case that I am an ENTp.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    Default Re: ISTj's and anger

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean
    How angry does an ISTj have to get to lose their reasoning ability? Or in another words, is it likely that I can reason with this guy even if he is really angry at me?
    IJ types are usually very difficult to reason with when they are angry. When possible, it's better to avoid to reason with in this case, especially when he's a depressive variant (i.e enneagram types 4, 6, and 8). Then : if the LSI is E6 or E8 - very little is needed to make them lose their reasoning ability. If E1, a little more is required, as they are more "stable".

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    thanks


    I have finally calmed down, and I am thinking that I should just let it go. I am sure he will do the same as well.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    Short term reasoning and long time reasoning are two different things. If you explain calmly to an ISTj what the right answer is (perhaps a little umf is needed), even if they vehamently disagree with you at the time, they may very well process the information and agree with you at a later date. This is what makes me like ISTjs quite a bit. Their loyalty to logic makes them see that sometimes pushing people around with force isn't good for the whole, the community, and even themselves..... and other times it's very necessary. At times I have a deep respect for ISTjs.
    Suomea

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    We are not the most forgiving bunch, I really try to be tolerant (in the original meaning of the word=accepting of what is FUCKING WRONG (c: ), but it's hard and unnatural.

    I'm not sure why this guy thinks you did it on purpose, but if it was me, you should try to make me change my mind on this, or at least spark some doubt. It would make the difference between me just being pissed off and me trying to get back at you (and I wouldn't be trying to just get even).

    Venting is very necessary. Can't give you a time on this as it depends on too many things. It's very hard to talk to me until I've calmed down, but it is possible.

    It seems you think you had a good reason, so I'm guessing if you apologized it didn't sound too convincing. I wouldn't really care if something else got your attention, I would still be expecting a good apology.
    LSI

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    I did not apologize to him as of now, but I might do that once he calms down so that he realizes that I am not just acting against him. But I think I have a tendency to take things too personally.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean
    I did not apologize to him as of now, but I might do that once he calms down so that he realizes that I am not just acting against him.
    Well hopefully he'll calm down without you having to apologize, realize without you having to explain, and offer you a cookie next time you see each other. :-P
    LSI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze
    i know about 3-4 of these types and generally they are slow to anger but once they are angry they hold a grudge. like for 30 years they'll hold a grudge. they never forget anything.
    This isn't right, yes they are slow to anger, but once they explode they're completely relieved like a weight has been lifted off their shoulders. They don't hold grudges for 30 years, but it is true in that they rarely forget noteworthy misdeeds. Suomea's analysis is intellectually honest.
    ISTj.

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    Default Re: ISTj's and anger

    It sounds to me that your actions suggest to the ISTj that you are unreliable or not serious about your work. I don't think continuing to straighten out this issue will work as he feels you're either threatening his position/undermining his authority, the company etc and are out to get him. So trying to prove you're right....or more importantly, that he's wrong..... .... will work against you.

    I suggest you try to prove though ACTIONS that you have the company's best interests at heart. Your words will mean nothing to the ISTj if the evidence contradicts them.

    Hope that helps. Good luck, ISTjs can be pretty ruthless when they want something done. Don't take it too personally.

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    Default Re: ISTj's and anger

    I must be lucky, because my father never did that to me (well, we wouldn't get along at all if he did).
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Thanks to all!

    Everything is fine now. You guys were pretty close in your predictions.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    Default ISTjs feeling anger and irritation

    Do you find that your anger level, between one and ten, never really sits in the middle of the scale, but instead bounces from the low end all the way to the high?

    Now I want to make a distinction between anger and irritation. Anger for me is an intense feeling of rage that overwhelms my ability to think rationally, whereas irritation is a milder emotion, a kind of "fuck off" reaction to things that interrupt or impede my activities.

    I let irritation out all the time, saying "What?!" to people bothering me, shouting at cars on the road, responding with "Blah blah blah go away," etc.

    Anger, however, is something I usually repress. It just never seems justified to me. I feel like it's ridiculous, an absurd way of dealing with troubling situations. This leads to an instinctive shuffling aside of anger-driven impulses to an almost algorithmically insignificant position in my consciousness.

    Eventually, however, something pushes me over the line. When the catalyst is impersonal, it is invariably due to some kind of physical malfunctioning of something vital to my productivity, like my computer or car.

    It is far more common, however, for a person or persons to cause me to go over the edge. In high school, an obnoxious, fat SLE got in within inches of my face and verbally bullied me over the fact that he was right in a dispute over a play during a game of kickball. He was such an overbearing ass that I went into this berserk rage, punched him in the face and then proceeded to run circles around him, taunting him for being too fat to catch me. I poured all of my anger into making him suffer as much as possible, saying the meanest things I could think of, like making fun of him for not having a dad, that sort of thing. This sounds like I was just being mean, but I was irreconcilably angry, pumped so full of adrenaline that almost became an animal.

    Other examples are taking the hat off an ILE kid who was bullying me and hitting him in the face with it as hard as I could. More recently, Joy was being a bitch, so I took her laptop and shattered it across my leg.

    The point here isn't that my actions were so extreme, it's that in each of these circumstances I went from being totally calm--or at least composed--to suddenly, unexpectedly lashing out hysterically in pure infuriation, like going from moonless night to noonday sun in an instant, no graduality whatsoever.

    Do you LSIs relate to this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Now I want to make a distinction between anger and irritation. Anger for me is an intense feeling of rage that overwhelms my ability to think rationally, whereas irritation is a milder emotion, a kind of "fuck off" reaction to things that interrupt or impede my activities.

    I let irritation out all the time, saying "What?!" to people bothering me, shouting at cars on the road, responding with "Blah blah blah go away," etc.
    Yeah, I'm a pretty irritable person. I guess it's because I have such low patience. My irritation comes out in body language and how i respond to people...breaking things helps sometimes. It's hard for me to get out of the loop of irritation. I usually just need a lot of time alone and peace and quiet. If this doesn't happen, it continues to build and build.

    Anger, however, is something I usually repress. It just never seems justified to me. I feel like it's ridiculous, an absurd way of dealing with troubling situations. This leads to an instinctive shuffling aside of anger-driven impulses to an almost algorithmically insignificant position in my consciousness.
    I feel the same way, however for me it's really hard to control sometimes. I'm realizing now that it usually takes a constant stream of irritation to lead me to the point of anger and when it does, damn..stand back. Rage is an ugly thing and I hate being pushed that far to the point you can't control yourself but i've gotten there before, more times than i'd care to admit.

    The point here isn't that my actions were so extreme, it's that in each of these circumstances I went from being totally calm--or at least composed--to suddenly, unexpectedly lashing out hysterically in pure infuriation, like going from moonless night to noonday sun in an instant, no graduality whatsoever.

    Do you LSIs relate to this?
    Yeah, like I said, it's probably due to ignoring our feelings..repressing them until they just explode. I was trying to work on recognizing and labeling how I was feeling before I let my anger get out of control but it's very hard to pinpoint when or why something happened before I just snapped. I just react, I can't help it. I think that's the best I can explain or justify my anger, I'm highly reactive.

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    That's called RAGE (a very typical characteristic of LSE character) and I may say not very typical of introverts, as they are much more likely to hold things in..introverted, get it? Inside verted. Turning inwards.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    I was gonna say to to DJ and Jessica that I do this, too.

    So can I be LSE now?
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    One hates being pushed that far and the other can't help it. One evaluates their feelings the other doesn't...E/I. One can stand more nagging, the other can't. One is Fe feeling valuer, the other isn't. I guess you can get back to being an Introver, Golden.

    "I feel the same way, however for me it's really hard to control sometimes. I'm realizing now that it usually takes a constant stream of irritation to lead me to the point of anger and when it does, damn..stand back. Rage is an ugly thing and I hate being pushed that far to the point you can't control yourself but i've gotten there before, more times than i'd care to admit."
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    That's called RAGE (a very typical characteristic of LSE character) and I may say not very typical of introverts, as they are much more likely to hold things in..introverted, get it? Inside verted. Turning inwards.
    Sorry, but this starts to get annoying, even to people who aren't directly involved in this discussion. If you don't agree with their self-typing you can tell them about it or whatever but please don't come back to that everytime a thread about LSIs is opened.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    So, you basically overreact to adversities. I don't think that's type-related. Maybe repressing your anger is the problem. Thinking that you can arbitrary control anger is not a good idea (likely because it doesn't fit the image of how you're "supposed to" act). When anger and rage is suppressed, it gains explosive strength. And by that nature more self-control is required to keep anger and rage in check.
    Last edited by Singu; 02-09-2011 at 05:54 AM.

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    Actually Jessica might very well be LSE too from this quote>....

    "I know, i'm the same way in that I don't have any sort of respect for someone that does what I do but I don't know how to be any other way. I've tried to confront people the moment I'm irritated with something but I tend to not realize just how pissed off I am until I explode. It's either a 1 or a 10 on the anger scale, nothing in between. I can't afford to have my roommates hate me."

    She's contradicting herself her by saying that she represses it when in a previous post she said otherwise..that would be Ti ignoring.

    LOL I have two duals here.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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