Ni PoLR of LSE-ESTj

[bolong]

LSEs don't really have Ni PoLR, that's just a formality of the theory. In reality, LSEs are the superhumans of socionics. They bench-press their Ni-PoLR and then eat it for breakfast afterwards. Then they crap it out on the rest of the world and laugh maniacally... because they can. Only SLEs can match LSEs in terms of confidence - but in the end, in sheer brute-ness, the LSE will win. And then drink a beer afterwards. And then finish cleaning the bathroom. And then scrub the floor. And then run off to their third job, for fun, to work a bit more before bedtime.

But there are also many incompetent lses just bc there are a lot of incompetent people and they fall into every type. An incompetent lse is the worst though, they put pressure on others for no reason , they stress without accomplishing anything, theyare suspicious of others' disposition towards them and they cannot manage a graceful social interaction to save their life. They are also rigid about rules that don't even concern them, to the point of blind dogma.

[Beautiful sky]

But there are also many incompetent lses just bc there are a lot of incompetent people and they fall into every type. An incompetent lse is the worst though, they put pressure on others for no reason , they stress without accomplishing anything, theyare suspicious of others' disposition towards them and they cannot manage a graceful social interaction to save their life. They are also rigid about rules that don't even concern them, to the point of blind dogma.

Would you please offer an example?

[Beautiful sky]

That's less than a day of planning ahead. I'll schedule a week in advance. I just don't see the point of having long-term goals.
By "I decide to do something then I do it," it could mean, "I decide to do something in fifteen minutes. Fifteen minutes later, I do it."

Things that are decided in advance of doing them are planned and habitually is LSE. Even spontanaity is planned by LSE

[DirectorAbbie]

Even spontanaity is planned by LSE

Spontaneity doesn't take much planning, though. Well, some. April Fool's spontaneity can be planned for months. But in an Ne way, which is different. Ne planning is "this would be a great idea, and we should do this and this and this and that would be awesome too!" But they rarely get past the idea stage. For April Fool's, one can remember those ideas and implement them. They're not likely to take more than a week of preparation.

There is something I've been planning for months: to sing a song on March 15th. But even that is a week-by-week thing. Will I practice this week: yes or no? If so, I need to schedule it.

[Velvet]

You could be LSE. Why ILI?

Where did you see ILI?

[Beautiful sky]

Where did you see ILI?

Sorry IEI

[Velvet]

Sorry IEI

Because I know myself more than you or anybody else here.
Also show me people who mistyped themselves as their conflictors?

[Beautiful sky]

Because I know myself more than you or anybody else here.
Also show me people who mistyped themselves as their conflictors?

Why are you on the defensive is the better question.

[Aylen]

Things that are decided in advance of doing them are planned and habitually is LSE. Even spontanaity is planned by LSE

In what way? Do you mean taking a trip last moment but planning out the route and where you will stay kind of thing? I do that too sometimes but other times I just get in the car and go. I will stop when I feel like it and stay wherever is convenient until I reach my destination. After I arrive I just do whatever I feel like doing. Usually decided between whoever I am traveling with and myself.

spon·ta·ne·ous
spänˈtānēəs/Submit
adjective
performed or occurring as a result of a sudden inner impulse or inclination and without premeditation or external stimulus.
"the audience broke into spontaneous applause"
synonyms: unplanned, unpremeditated, unrehearsed, impulsive, impetuous, unstudied, impromptu, spur-of-the-moment, extempore, extemporaneous; More

Edit: @Velvet I do some of those things too. I love to beat my previous driving time records. People say I can be dictator when I am driving because I will not stop whenever they ask because it is a waste of time to me. I can ignore issues of discomfort, like having to eat or bathroom breaks longer than most of my passengers. hahahah Sometimes I have to make myself chill and let them stretch or whatever but in my head I am thinking come on I am not going to beat my record. I guess I am competitive against myself too. I don't think anyone could confuse me for an LSE though.

I hate being told I NEED a break when I have a goal in mind.

[Aylen]

I do a lot of those things, yet, I am not LSE nor ESE.

Cause it's procrastination.

[Velvet]

Why are you on the defensive is the better question.

I am not and haven't even been...

[Velvet]

Cause it's procrastination.

Hah I am very good at this one
I think anybody can procrastinate...

[Beautiful sky]

In what way? Do you mean taking a trip last moment but planning out the route and where you will stay kind of thing? I do that too sometimes but other times I just get in the car and go. I will stop when I feel like it and stay wherever is convenient until I reach my destination. After I arrive I just do whatever I feel like doing. Usually decided between whoever I am traveling with and myself.

spon·ta·ne·ous
spänˈtānēəs/Submit
adjective
performed or occurring as a result of a sudden inner impulse or inclination and without premeditation or external stimulus.
"the audience broke into spontaneous applause"
synonyms: unplanned, unpremeditated, unrehearsed, impulsive, impetuous, unstudied, impromptu, spur-of-the-moment, extempore, extemporaneous; More

Edit: @Velvet I do some of those things too. I love to beat my previous driving time records. People say I can be dictator when I am driving because I will not stop whenever they ask because it is a waste of time to me. I can ignore issues of discomfort, like having to eat or bathroom breaks longer than most of my passengers. hahahah Sometimes I have to make myself chill and let them stretch or whatever but in my head I am thinking come on I am not going to beat my record. I guess I am competitive against myself too. I don't think anyone could confuse me for an LSE though.

I hate being told I NEED a break when I have a goal in mind.

Inner impulse: I want to go camping! Let's go camping…
Planning: Ok, we should get this thing that thing that, then thinks about where to go, goes on line and researches the camp spot and what they can take, prepares them and then goes camping. What do I write and say doesn't make any sense to you.

[Aylen]

Inner impulse: I want to go camping! Let's go camping…
Planning: Ok, we should get this thing that thing that, then thinks about where to go, goes on line and researches the camp spot and what they can take, prepares them and then goes camping. What do I write and say doesn't make any sense to you.

lol I do the same things. I call it common sense. I can't think of one person I know who would go camping without preparing. I guess there is someone who would pull over on the side of the road and set up camp, without supplies, because they weren't prepared. Maybe they would sleep on the ground and catch their own food which they couldn't cook because they didn't prepare.

[Beautiful sky]

lol I do the same things. I call it common sense. I can't think of one person I know who would go camping without preparing. I guess there is someone who would pull over on the side of the road and set up camp, without supplies, because they weren't prepared. Maybe they would sleep on the ground and catch their own food which they couldn't cook because they didn't prepare.

OH GOD. how about a person like my brother. SEE. His buddies call him up and say lets go camping. He, not having a sleeping bag, takes off to the site and discovers he doesn't have a sleeping bag sleeps in his car. Next time he goes to the camping store he gets a sleeping bag and takes blankets, goes camping a second time discovers it's hard to sleep on the ground without a cusion buys a blow up mattress at the store. While he's at the store he gets the one with the best texture blow up mattress the softest, the ones with the comfy sink in kind of pillow top.

[Beautiful sky]

I'm not sure if that's Ni polr but this is what I've observed about my LSE partner.
- when I ask him to do sth he'll say: not now, tommorrow or sth similar. It might be his overal laziness though.
- he's almost always late.
- when we are on our way on holiday, to my in-laws etc. he counts the time and cares a lot that we either "break the record" or come exactly as he planned.-
- It's happened more Times than I can count - I'm telling him we need to do sth NOW because otherwise we won't manage to do that (e.g. buying presents before Christmas). He'll insist we have a lot of time he needs to rest or watch the play or whatever . Unfortunatelly I'm always right .
- Time is flat for him. He plans things he'll do in 20 years time not taking into account many things can happen in the meantime.
- when we go somewhere and we don't need to be at an exact time (supermarket e.g.) he hurries me up and can make the atmosphere really tense because of that.
I've been wondering if that's anyhow type related - I've noticed very similar traits in my LSE and my ESE mum. They are both veeeeeeeeery forgetful - they are very often in a hurry in the morning and are constantly forgetting mobile phones, wallets, ID cards . They also put things at random places and then spend ages tryin to find them. I'm trying to make him realize it's nice to put things back in their place but he's too impatient to do that - he doesn't care about it. It seems to me it's difficult for him to imagine he'll need these thins in the future.It's happened many Times with his car keys, gloves, cap etc. He needs to buy new ones at leasr twice every season. It's really annoying.

@Etar and @kingslayer

This is a good description of a real life LSE

[Etar]

@Etar and @kingslayer

This is a good description of a real life LSE

Only the first line applies to me if I think there is no point in rushing it so I can do multiple things in 1 go. Rest doesn't apply at all. I'm not an LSE.

[EUDAEMONIUM]

I always thought it was that fatherly advice that hard work pays off in the end. There's truth to it but you could work yourself to death and never go anywhere in life.

[Beautiful sky]

“Not now”

[Adam Strange]

I was working with a very smart but overweight LSE and I mentioned that everyone has gotten fatter during COVID, including me.

He said, "Everyone but Yoshi." Yoshi is a gay Ni-dom ILI who disappears when he turns sideways. The guy is rail-thin.

I said, "That's because Yoshi survives on flower scents and musical notes."

The LSE looked at me like I was speaking Greek, which he is not. As if the conversation took a turn which he simply could not follow. "Uh, what do you mean?", he finally asked.

"He's ethereal. It was a joke."

[Minde]

I was working with a very smart but overweight LSE and I mentioned that everyone has gotten fatter during COVID, including me.

He said, "Everyone but Yoshi." Yoshi is a gay Ni-dom ILI who disappears when he turns sideways. The guy is rail-thin.

I said, "That's because Yoshi survives on flower scents and musical notes."

The LSE looked at me like I was speaking Greek, which he is not. As if the conversation took a turn which he simply could not follow. "Uh, what do you mean?", he finally asked.

"He's ethereal. It was a joke."

I feel like there are a number of LSEs who would get it fast enough to smile politely, especially if they are well-read, but that is a good example.

Stereotype LSE Ni-PoLR is when everything is at least 5-10 minutes late, more if there's more involved in hitting the target. But, gosh darn it, it's going to be done THOROUGHLY whatever it is.


I did not gain any weight during COVID, though to be fair I lost my scales somewhere last fall when we moved. I should ask my chiropractor to weigh me next time I see her.

[Adam Strange]

I feel like there are a number of LSEs who would get it fast enough to smile politely, especially if they are well-read, but that is a good example.

Stereotype LSE Ni-PoLR is when everything is at least 5-10 minutes late, more if there's more involved in hitting the target. But, gosh darn it, it's going to be done THOROUGHLY whatever it is.

Yes, that describes this LSE guy. We are ramping up a water-cooled laser weapon, and I want to get data on the thermal characteristics and I said we could get coolant flow rates by disconnecting a coolant line and dumping it into a bucket for sixty seconds, but no, he wants to go out and buy a flow meter, which will delay us for two days. BUT, you could argue, a flow meter is more versatile and will be outputting data under changing circumstances. So I said, Sure, let's do it.

I did not gain any weight during COVID, though to be fair I lost my scales somewhere last fall when we moved. I should ask my chiropractor to weigh me next time I see her.

@Minde, I'm jealous.

[Minde]

@Minde, I'm jealous.

I walk about a mile a day, cook most of my meals, have fairly skinny ancestors, had a health-conscious upbringing. The one thing working against me is mold exposure, which tend to make people gain weight. It also causes fatigue, which I have, so I haven't been working out as much as I'd like / idealize. So I expect I've lost muscle mass and gained some flab. It just doesn't show a lot on me yet (I don't think).

/si

[Minde]

I actually really like people who care enough to do things thoroughly, and as long as I am allowed to add padding and contingencies for the inevitable delays, I'm usually* ok with that particular Ni-PoLR manifestation I mentioned, btw.



* I did have a meltdown** one time when we missed a train in a foreign country that was connecting us to a flight. So I'm not always ok with it.

** I don't usually have (external) meltdowns. In fact, it's very rare.

[Adam Strange]

I walk about a mile a day, cook most of my meals, have fairly skinny ancestors, had a health-conscious upbringing. The one thing working against me is mold exposure, which tend to make people gain weight. It also causes fatigue, which I have, so I haven't been working out as much as I'd like / idealize. So I expect I've lost muscle mass and gained some flab. It just doesn't show a lot on me yet (I don't think).

/si

My problem is that I don't exercise enough. I can always justify working and making money over just taking a boring walk somewhere. I've tried to trick myself into exercising, but so far, that hasn't worked.

My last LSI GF, who was in terrific shape, got me to walk whenever we were together. I need an ESI around like that.

I notice that the LIE-EII couple who lives two doors down from me goes walking around the block a few times a day. I'm jealous of them, too.

[Minde]

Mmhph, you edited and I didn't see this before.

Yes, that describes this LSE guy. We are ramping up a water-cooled laser weapon, and I want to get data on the thermal characteristics and I said we could get coolant flow rates by disconnecting a coolant line and dumping it into a bucket for sixty seconds, but no, he wants to go out and buy a flow meter, which will delay us for two days. BUT, you could argue, a flow meter is more versatile and will be outputting data under changing circumstances. So I said, Sure, let's do it.

Yes, if you know or have a pretty good idea of what you're getting into when you say "yes" it can work out well.

You have to watch out for excellent focus on the wrong details. Or too much on one section and the rest are complete surprises to your LSE when go time happens. I'm sure you know this, though. Once they grasp a whole system, it can be really impressive.


They really like it when a tool can be used not only for the current task but repeatedly in the future for a variety of situations. I think it might be a sort of Ni protection, maybe?

[Beautiful sky]

“I’m having a hard time keeping up with everything I have to get done. With scheduling all these appointments “

[End]

Yes, that describes this LSE guy. We are ramping up a water-cooled laser weapon, and I want to get data on the thermal characteristics and I said we could get coolant flow rates by disconnecting a coolant line and dumping it into a bucket for sixty seconds, but no, he wants to go out and buy a flow meter, which will delay us for two days. BUT, you could argue, a flow meter is more versatile and will be outputting data under changing circumstances. So I said, Sure, let's do it.

I do find it annoying when people refuse to accept simple solutions to problems. Yeah, flow meter does have alternate uses and utility but it costs 2 days and money. The bucket and disconnecting the hose, however, is free and available right now as most anything can serve as the "bucket" so long as the coolant hose's output doesn't make it double as a pressure washer.

If it did than the flow meter makes sense but if it did it'd also be complex enough to demand that item be built into the base model if the engineers had anything resembling average intelligence. That's another pet peev of mine. Idiotic overthinking. Shit really does tend to be simpler than people make it out to be. If it doesn't have a flow meter it likely doesn't need it as dumb engineers don't tend to remain employed for very long.

[EUDAEMONIUM]

I can't really imagine living like this. But what I've noticed is a general lack of awareness or worry about how long projects will take. Like spending 10 hours trying to figure out how to fix a hot water heater only to end the day finally admitting they need to buy a new one.

[Beautiful sky]

Gotta leave two hours early to get to the new job on time even if it means you will be there a half hour too early lol

[Poptart]

Gotta leave two hours early to get to the new job on time even if it means you will be there a half hour too early lol

The secret to being on time is leaving early, but I agree that two hours is too much

[Beautiful sky]

CuriousSoul posted a link to this in General Discussion, where it explains how Jung defined . I find that the descriptions can be a little confusing though.

[spoil:f07d41bb77]8. Intuition

[align=left:f07d41bb77]Intuition, in the introverted attitude, is directed upon the inner object, a term we might justly apply to the elements of the unconscious. For the relation of inner objects to consciousness is entirely analogous to that of outer objects, although theirs is a psychological and not a physical reality. Inner objects appear to the intuitive perception as subjective images of things, which, though not met with in external experience, really determine the contents of the unconscious, i.e. the collective unconscious, in the last resort. Naturally, in their per se character, these contents are, not accessible to experience, a quality which they have in common with the outer object. For just as outer objects correspond only relatively with our perceptions of them, so the phenomenal forms of the inner object are also relative; products of their (to us) inaccessible essence and of the peculiar nature of the intuitive function. Like sensation, intuition also has its subjective factor, which is suppressed to the farthest limit in the extraverted intuition, but which becomes the decisive factor in the intuition of the introvert. Although this intuition may receive its impetus from outer objects, it is never arrested by the external possibilities, but stays with that factor which the outer object releases within.

Whereas introverted sensation is mainly confined to the perception of particular innervation phenomena by way of the unconscious, and does not go beyond them, intuition represses this side of the subjective factor and perceives the image which has really occasioned the innervation. Supposing, for instance, a man is overtaken by a psychogenic attack of giddiness. Sensation is arrested by the peculiar character of this innervationdisturbance, perceiving all its qualities, its intensity, its transient course, the nature of its origin and disappearance [p. 506] in their every detail, without raising the smallest inquiry concerning the nature of the thing which produced the disturbance, or advancing anything as to its content. Intuition, on the other hand, receives from the sensation only the impetus to immediate activity; it peers behind the scenes, quickly perceiving the inner image that gave rise to the specific phenomenon, i.e. the attack of vertigo, in the present case. It sees the image of a tottering man pierced through the heart by an arrow. This image fascinates the intuitive activity; it is arrested by it, and seeks to explore every detail of it. It holds fast to the vision, observing with the liveliest interest how the picture changes, unfolds further, and finally fades. In this way introverted intuition perceives all the background processes of consciousness with almost the same distinctness as extraverted sensation senses outer objects. For intuition, therefore, the unconscious images attain to the dignity of things or objects. But, because intuition excludes the co-operation of sensation, it obtains either no knowledge at all or at the best a very inadequate awareness of the innervation-disturbances or of the physical effects produced by the unconscious images. Accordingly, the images appear as though detached from the subject, as though existing in themselves without relation to the person.

Consequently, in the above-mentioned example, the introverted intuitive, when affected by the giddiness, would not imagine that the perceived image might also in some way refer to himself. Naturally, to one who is rationally orientated, such a thing seems almost unthinkable, but it is none the less a fact, and I have often experienced it in my dealings with this type.

The remarkable indifference of the extraverted intuitive in respect to outer objects is shared by the introverted intuitive in relation to the inner objects. Just as the extraverted intuitive is continually scenting out new [p. 507] possibilities, which he pursues with an equal unconcern both for his own welfare and for that of others, pressing on quite heedless of human considerations, tearing down what has only just been established in his everlasting search for change, so the introverted intuitive moves from image to image, chasing after every possibility in the teeming womb of the unconscious, without establishing any connection between the phenomenon and himself. Just as the world can never become a moral problem for the man who merely senses it, so the world of images is never a moral problem to the intuitive. To the one just as much as to the other, it is an ae[]sthenic problem, a question of perception, a 'sensation'. In this way, the consciousness of his own bodily existence fades from the introverted intuitive's view, as does its effect upon others. The extraverted standpoint would say of him: 'Reality has no existence for him; he gives himself up to fruitless phantasies'. A perception of the unconscious images, produced in such inexhaustible abundance by the creative energy of life, is of course fruitless from the standpoint of immediate utility. But, since these images represent possible ways of viewing life, which in given circumstances have the power to provide a new energic potential, this function, which to the outer world is the strangest of all, is as indispensable to the total psychic economy as is the corresponding human type to the psychic life of a people. Had this type not existed, there would have been no prophets in Israel.

Introverted intuition apprehends the images which arise from the a priori, i.e. the inherited foundations of the unconscious mind. These archetypes, whose innermost nature is inaccessible to experience, represent the precipitate of psychic functioning of the whole ancestral line, i.e. the heaped-up, or pooled, experiences of organic existence in general, a million times repeated, and condensed into types. Hence, in these archetypes all experiences are [p. 508] represented which since primeval time have happened on this planet. Their archetypal distinctness is the more marked, the more frequently and intensely they have been experienced. The archetype would be -- to borrow from Kant -- the noumenon of the image which intuition perceives and, in perceiving, creates.

Since the unconscious is not just something that lies there, like a psychic caput mortuum, but is something that coexists and experiences inner transformations which are inherently related to general events, introverted intuition, through its perception of inner processes, gives certain data which may possess supreme importance for the comprehension of general occurrences: it can even foresee new possibilities in more or less clear outline, as well as the event which later actually transpires. Its prophetic prevision is to be explained from its relation to the archetypes which represent the law-determined course of all experienceable things.[/align:f07d41bb77] [/spoil:f07d41bb77]


What you write aut0 is what I have heard from the other ESTjs I've met. What I still don't know is what makes ESTjs "fear" time issues? I don't know if "fear" is the right word, but at least I see that it affects them a lot.

There you are ESTJ doesn’t engage in fruitless fantasies where they delve in their inner mind and extrapolate on the images that come to them and form new images out of images

[necrosebud]

may also be, in some uncertain but relevant or important situations, assume the worst and have a hard time changing their mind or be open to alternatives

I have noticed some similarities in the behavior of people with X function as lead/creative and those with the same as polr...

[Renna]

Typing like So, rely purely on descriptions, not as good when reading people’s patterns between the lines… Make Beautiful Sky wanna slam her head in the wall.

[Beautiful sky]

Here’s an example of Ni POLR for LSE

LSE: “I start rushing this morning because I had it in my head that the appointment was at 2:30 not bothering to check the form for the time. The time says 2:45 for the appointment and I got here 45 minutes early. I could have spent that time kissing you.”