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Thread: How do you experience your dual-seeking/suggestive function?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leader View Post
    Because of the above, I take alot of different drugs to help me calm down and let loose and actually feel something other than this anger, I forget about my place in time, and just go with the flow.
    Try strychnine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    what do SiFe egos give?


    I have a recent LII boss-type person (I've come to be an occasional nanny)...and it's insane how much Si he demands of me when I am around..quite honestly...I have no idea what to do or say to him. He demanded I help decorate/rearrange his house when the kid was in bed because he is terrible at it (he really fucking is...he obsesses over it... it's weird. He paces back and forth telling me what needs to be done, but then doesn't do it.. and then obsesses over where to put his paintings but..that is the least of his worries imo..I can't relate to him at all). but being that he pays well so far... How can I help this person (and in turn..gain a few more extra $..until I can't work for him anymore because he drives me nuts)... I guess I'm wondering is-- how do you give someone Si/Fe enough to help them? Being ESI..the only thing I found myself doing was...putting paintings in a pile of "throw away" vs "keep"... he wasn't thrilled.... (He had a giant painting of a dog...)

    Our interactions are uncomfortable to say the least.
    Just what I noticed out of the relationship my ILE friend has with a SiFe : he grounds her, makes her observe (and sometimes adapt to) some minimal "social traditions" with friends or when she has to stay in a queue to buy something (she would not be far from trying to manipulate ppl into letting her go first or creating some chaos around her just for fun ). It's kind of like he anchors (and filters) her Ne rich what-ifs in a realistic frame. I'm not a blind believer in duality by default , but her case has gone as Socionics says : although they connected hard, didn't click from the beginning, she has now, after about 4 years, become more balanced, less psychologically labile, more aware of others and willing to take their needs / subjectivities into account as well . For instance, he taught her how to choose a present for someone, aka not just buying them what you like and consequently think they should also like or want. She 's a born narcissist, so that came naturally. He actually "saved" her from her addiction to pills and tantrums she had got into after a Fi polr nasty story of unrequited love acknowledged too late just by being there and calming her down --- in a way that I could hardly stand, for example, I'd consider that damn smotheringly unbearably motherly. But it worked for her, it seems. He encouraged her to finish her law studies after some years , not just drop them cause of being too busy with a newly found job. And actually helped her with on practical sides : cooking for her just to make her focus on her exams, stuff like that. By nature she 's a bright person, but procrastinates like shit. ILE 6w7 or 7w6 , that area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    what do SiFe egos give?
    @AshSun actually covered it really well!

    But it is a grounding and a way to focus more on the present and whats going on around me. Even if it's doing the dishes or really wanting to buy something, he has a way of phrasing it and make it sound like it was my idea all along to do something or not do something, which is something Fe-creatives seem the best at doing. Like....nudging me in the right direction instead of ordering me to, which doesn't go well (looking at you, Se-users!)

    Also, I tend to pay more attention to people around me and fit them into whatever I'm doing. People listen to me more because instead of focusing entirely on the idea I'm trying to support or get people to go along with, I let them get a word in edgewise without a scoff and a "well that won't work so lets do my way". It's a mix of groundedness and a bit more ease in group settings, if that makes sense. I'm still terrible one-on-one and don't think that will ever really go away, but I can rock the socks off of a team/group work and have everyone working together and feeling like they matter and delegating.

    tl;dr- Grounding and focusing on the present, with an addition of ethics and how to make people feel comfortabel with each other in groups (either teamwork or parties where no one knows each other). Calming and unobtrusive training for the Fi-polr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxOnStilts View Post
    @AshSun actually covered it really well!

    But it is a grounding and a way to focus more on the present and whats going on around me. Even if it's doing the dishes or really wanting to buy something, he has a way of phrasing it and make it sound like it was my idea all along to do something or not do something, which is something Fe-creatives seem the best at doing. Like....nudging me in the right direction instead of ordering me to, which doesn't go well (looking at you, Se-users!)
    Also, I tend to pay more attention to people around me and fit them into whatever I'm doing. People listen to me more because instead of focusing entirely on the idea I'm trying to support or get people to go along with, I let them get a word in edgewise without a scoff and a "well that won't work so lets do my way". It's a mix of groundedness and a bit more ease in group settings, if that makes sense. I'm still terrible one-on-one and don't think that will ever really go away, but I can rock the socks off of a team/group work and have everyone working together and feeling like they matter and delegating.

    tl;dr- Grounding and focusing on the present, with an addition of ethics and how to make people feel comfortabel with each other in groups (either teamwork or parties where no one knows each other). Calming and unobtrusive training for the Fi-polr.
    lol, nice. thanks guys.


    but how does he do this: "he has a way of phrasing it and make it sound like it was my idea all along to do something or not do something, which is something Fe-creatives seem the best at doing. Like....nudging me in the right direction instead of ordering me to, which doesn't go well (looking at you, Se-users!)"

    I suck at beating around the bush and can be very blunt.. .. HOW exactly does he phrase it.. or maybe you could ask him what his mindset is?

    Maybe I'm just super terrible with Fe.. eh, maybe I should just nanny a few more times and quit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    I suck at beating around the bush and can be very blunt.. .. HOW exactly does he phrase it.. or maybe you could ask him what his mindset is?
    I'll be on the lookout for things to get back to you on. The only thing I can immediately think of is from when we were shopping last night. I love cardigans. I have a lot. I wouldn't mind having one for each day of the month. So, of course, I saw a cardigan I wanted. I didn't need it. I have one very similar. This color was different, though, and it was SOOOO comfy. And on sale. Which wasn't much off, and it was still something I didn't need to spend money on, being as broke as I am. Instead of telling me not to get it or that I would regret it, he just said something along the lines of, "Well, it's your money that you're spending" and we wandered a bit while I held on to it and stopped to think about whether or not I ACTUALLY wanted it, and eventually decided to put it back.

    Other times he'll mention how much he likes when I do dishes or laundry and how much he appreciates it, and then when he's gone I think, "Oh! I bet he'd really like it if I did this!" and so I might do it (or I might not, yknow.) Or he'll start doing something and ask me to help if I don't mind considering what else I have going on...

    .....SEI/ILE has never sounded more like a mother/child relationship than it has in this one post, sigh. For what it's worth, he doesn't usually do chores for me or anything or even at all. But he does cook sometimes and it's good! And he has a snappy fashion sense, which I lack so he picks out my clothes every morning.....

    (joking about the picking clothes out every morning, but I do like to run things I'm uncertain about by him because he has a better aesthetic eye for those sorts of things.)

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    @AshSun, how did they get together? (You said they didn't click immediately.)

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    ^^ keep in mind itīs the only alpha irrational duality i know ...itīs gonna sound a bit cinema. he and her brother started making music together and apparently he "fell" for her the first time she saw her at a show. Thatīs what he claimed. And he started visiting them both and stuff, actually she was the one who didnīt respond at first, being still Ne pining hypotheses and possibilities and scenarios about a LIE or LSI (couldnīt type him from her stories, but he sounded like a Se Quadra logical rational). She literally learned to get used to Si, cause that wasnīt what she was rationally looking for in people. It struck me quite similar to what Eliza Thomason ^^^described above. Neither of us knew about socionics at that point , but after she got into it she said something like "he taught me to live in my body, not only in my mind and not have complexes about it".

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    It should be Si in my case...I don't know that's hard. I usually terribly want to experience something new, but at the same time I often have to deal with fear and I have problems to really relax and calm down. I didn't learn how to cope with this, sometimes it makes me look creepy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SophiaDeep View Post
    It should be Si in my case...I don't know that's hard. I usually terribly want to experience something new, but at the same time I often have to deal with fear and I have problems to really relax and calm down. I didn't learn how to cope with this, sometimes it makes me look creepy.
    so it would be that you need to be ina relaxing and calm atmosphere or near a person like that?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    so it would be that you need to be ina relaxing and calm atmosphere or near a person like that?

    No and yes... I need relax and at the same time I hate it because it makes me feel bored. I've never look for calm company, or enviroment, mostly I look for crazy party people and punk concerts and then sometimes I feel like I can't handle the tnesion, but at the same time I need it...it doesn't make sense

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    This actually doesn't sound too different from what I get out of NeTi.

    It's sort of like, I always assume I can't do a, or b, or c, and I don't see how my traits can be developed to any use. Ne sort of takes this and goes, "look, you're good at this thing... it's not too much of a stretch to develop it over time and fit it into this path that you maybe haven't considered..."

    I realized recently that many of the things I've chosen to spend time on developing have been due to some Ne person telling me (maybe once upon a time) that I could be good at it. Otherwise, I don't feel like expending energy into something; it's like I see a blocked road before I even begin. This is something that Se types don't get imo; they try to motivate you by encouraging you to push harder, but the problem is not that I don't want to push hard, but that I don't see the point of working if I feel like I have no potential in that area to begin with. It's not laziness exactly. Si-base makes the world feel very bleak sometimes, haha.
    Awesome post!

    I was talking tonight to someone and I described how people have different ways to confront reality, as in, some people make goals and than push with their willpower untill reality conforms, others change their methods untill reality conforms, others (like me) change both goals and methods, but have little to no willpower.

    For me, I can figure out many different routes to similar (not necesarily the same) place(s). So if you want to go somewhere, but the path is blocked I'll tell you either how to move the block, how to run around it, dig under it, fly over it, OR i'll tell you a different location with a smaller block and how you could climb/fly/dig around that one. I do that for myself too, but than, I rarely start digging/flying, I usually crawl around at leiserly speed and if it's too far i'll pick a closer direction. I can tell you, without my dual I usually crawl around a large amount of my time because i'm always occupied by finding the closer goal (short term satisfaction in a way).

    Just pushing through is something for other types i guess, I've tried sooo many times to do something on willpower, just to find that there's just not a whole lot of it in my body...finding ways around obstacles is more fun anyway ^^

    maybe that totally missed the point of your post, but this is what it triggered.

    Tldr: As ILE I tend to find many paths to many interesting places, but rarely get there due to lack of (what @hkkmr already pointed out) food and comfy shelter and basically the tenecity to actually want to get there!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    Just what I noticed out of the relationship my ILE friend has with a SiFe : he grounds her, makes her observe (and sometimes adapt to) some minimal "social traditions" with friends or when she has to stay in a queue to buy something (she would not be far from trying to manipulate ppl into letting her go first or creating some chaos around her just for fun ). It's kind of like he anchors (and filters) her Ne rich what-ifs in a realistic frame. I'm not a blind believer in duality by default , but her case has gone as Socionics says : although they connected hard, didn't click from the beginning, she has now, after about 4 years, become more balanced, less psychologically labile, more aware of others and willing to take their needs / subjectivities into account as well . For instance, he taught her how to choose a present for someone, aka not just buying them what you like and consequently think they should also like or want. She 's a born narcissist, so that came naturally. He actually "saved" her from her addiction to pills and tantrums she had got into after a Fi polr nasty story of unrequited love acknowledged too late just by being there and calming her down --- in a way that I could hardly stand, for example, I'd consider that damn smotheringly unbearably motherly. But it worked for her, it seems. He encouraged her to finish her law studies after some years , not just drop them cause of being too busy with a newly found job. And actually helped her with on practical sides : cooking for her just to make her focus on her exams, stuff like that. By nature she 's a bright person, but procrastinates like shit. ILE 6w7 or 7w6 , that area.
    well, most things he did for her was what I did for my EIE ex-wife. Seems like the good stuff to do. Actually, if I'm actually ILE, than i'm not sure I need a SEI cuz I'm doing that shit myself

    However, I do think SiFe can indeed "mother" us into more stable person. Also, I think Ile's can be pretty self destructive (in a non dramatic way, they just stop taking care of themselves because they don't notice anymore) in a way and need someone to make them aware of the good things that are actually in the "flesh" and the "here and now". I'll happily trade eating, sleeping or other healthy things for anything that stimulates me mentally, even though I thouroughly enjoy those things in company...

    oh yeah, procrastination, lol, yeah, if they can help with that they're worth their weight in gold!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    ...finding ways around obstacles is more fun anyway ^^
    I so feel that way. Not looking for more of my own obstacles to overcome, mind you, just love to help out with other peoples' obstacles.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    @Ankh


    Aww.

    Also, I wanted to say that I do want to respond to the other thread, and I just don't know what to say yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    well, most things he did for her was what I did for my EIE ex-wife. Seems like the good stuff to do. Actually, if I'm actually ILE, than i'm not sure I need a SEI cuz I'm doing that shit myself
    i was just describing what i happened to see IRL and took it for duality dynamics. You sure know your business better ...but then, damn, intertype relationships may not very reliable as a frame of reference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    i was just describing what i happened to see IRL and took it for duality dynamics. You sure know your business better ...but then, damn, intertype relationships may not very reliable as a frame of reference.
    Intertype relations are only one facet of interactions and can be influenced by many other factors such as age, economic status, position (superior/subordinate), emotional health, etc. I know of one Socionist who gave up the theory at least in part because the intertype relations fell apart for him at a personal level. Another user (Aestrivex) also criticizes the intertype relations but has opted for a looser approach in which general quadra dynamics replaces the rigid concept of 16 different interactions.
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    To go along with the above post, I can offer my own experiences. I live with an LSE, ESE, SLE(?), and xSI. Out of those, I get along best with the xSI. I am ~nine years older than the xSI and 11 years older than the SLE and have been in charge of them quite a bit. The xSI is a generally obedient and responsible child; we definitely disagree on some matters, but we've never really had a serious fight. This might be different if she was the elder child, since I tend to do what I want and resent being restrained by anyone else. Being in charge of her, I've never had that many problems. The SLE, on the other hand, can be a little horror. He also does what he wants and will blatantly ignore instructions/orders given. He loves to pester and is given to making excuses; any explanation you give for his behavior will ultimately be incorporated into this repertoire. We have moments where we get along, but as a junior authority in that house, he was a serious pain in the ass. For my part, I've become excessively critical of him and unwilling to budge even in situations where a little compromise might not be a bad idea. From time to time, I'll remind myself that I am holding grudges against him for the past, and that I should give him a chance to prove he's changed. And then he reminds me why I can't stand him.

    The LSE and ESE are our parents. The LSE was always over-religious and fixated on his own authority (he's getting better with the former), and the ESE over-emotional (also improving). It would take too long to detail all the problems I have with them, but I've mentioned those ad nauseam elsewhere. The short version: authority clashes, moral clashes, previous mental/emotional abuse with LSE; previous emotional/physical/probably mental abuse and so much emotional bullshit with ESE. Then we have my grandmother, who seems some kind of Rational Sensor. She and I have always gotten along incredibly well. She seems to understand me and my interests, and she's usually in an advisory position rather than an authority position. This works best for me, for reasons mentioned previously. In other situations, with other positions, other values, and other states of health, I would have different interactions with these types.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    I live with a... SLE(?)...11 years older than the SLE and have been in charge of them quite a bit..... The SLE, on the other hand, can be a little horror. He also does what he wants and will blatantly ignore instructions/orders given. He loves to pester and is given to making excuses; any explanation you give for his behavior will ultimately be incorporated into this repertoire. We have moments where we get along, but as a junior authority in that house, he was a serious pain in the ass. For my part, I've become excessively critical of him and unwilling to budge even in situations where a little compromise might not be a bad idea. From time to time, I'll remind myself that I am holding grudges against him for the past, and that I should give him a chance to prove he's changed. And then he reminds me why I can't stand him.

    LOL, when I read you are in charge of a SLE, I wondered, "How do you be in charge of a SLE?" Since my son is one, I know. He needs a wide berth. All those things you said sound like SLE so you may be right about the typing! And you are his Supervisor in Socionics as well as IRL so it would take a lot of self control to NOT be excessively critical...

    I found your whole post interesting because I do like to think about and notice how various types relate. Its once of the best things about Socionics, the inter-type relations. It sounds like yours have been at times very challenging. I hope you find a nice ENTJ sometime! It seems like the LSE should be a good relationship, too. My ESI Mom always go on so well with my LSE brother (much better than with me); I originally thought they were Duals, but no, just SemiDuals. I am glad you have had your grandmother to relate and to validate you! It was probably a very big blessing for you. Mine played the same role for me. One person who understood me and liked me just how I was. Even though I did not see her often, she was a big support to me.

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    Si suggestive: I listen to music a lot. I wear comfortable clothes and avoid loud noises and bright lights whenever possible. I like dancing, even though I'm bad at it. I gravitate towards calm, happy people

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    strange that the majority of the people is very Conscious of an Uncounscious function.

    Let's me wonder if they all know what they are talking about. I've seen this often on this forum...
    The claim that the dual-seeking Function (or the whole super-id) is "unconscious" is BS. Socionics had to use clear-cut categories, how else.

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    I would say alot of the energy and eventual fruition of those functions is handled on a subconscious level moreso than a conscious one.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    The Quiet Individualist Waster's Avatar
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    Very. I'm constantly talking/thinking about Ne (strange and unusual) stuff.

    You know, when I'm not relaxing somewhere.





    As we reach for the stars, we must put away childish things; gods, spirits and other phantasms of the brain. Reality is cruel and unforgiving, yet we must steel ourselves and secure the survival of our race through the unflinching pursuit of science and technology.
    - Stellaris

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    Can Si dual-seeking, under stress, manifest in a sudden resistance to insignificant or concrete changes (furniture, your favorite show's opening, your residence etc.), excessive nostalgia and over-indulgence?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextBigThing View Post
    Can Si dual-seeking, under stress, manifest in a sudden resistance to insignificant or concrete changes (furniture, your favorite show's opening, your residence etc.), excessive nostalgia and over-indulgence?
    The ILE I know well is actually soothed by such things under stress. She loves it when people are elaborate in their homely tastes and can create something both comfortable and aesthetically pleasant. She enjoys discussing furniture suggestions and stuff. Last time we met she actually kept telling me about how she appreciates what her sister.in-law has done in her house and I was like .... meh. ok.

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    The Quiet Individualist Waster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextBigThing View Post
    Can Si dual-seeking, under stress, manifest in a sudden resistance to insignificant or concrete changes (furniture, your favorite show's opening, your residence etc.), excessive nostalgia and over-indulgence?
    I guess so. Your comfortable with how things are so you don't want them to change?

    I remember reading an IEE description that says they'll order the same thing over and over again at a restaurant because they're certain of its pleasant sensation, rather then try something new.





    As we reach for the stars, we must put away childish things; gods, spirits and other phantasms of the brain. Reality is cruel and unforgiving, yet we must steel ourselves and secure the survival of our race through the unflinching pursuit of science and technology.
    - Stellaris

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    Perennial Wanderer Phantom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StridingStrider View Post
    I guess so. Your comfortable with how things are so you don't want them to change?

    I remember reading an IEE description that says they'll order the same thing over and over again at a restaurant because they're certain of its pleasant sensation, rather then try something new.
    Yes, to the nth degree. My friends often point out that I'm not willing to try new foods. This is also manifest in my other aesthetic tastes. For instance, I listen to the same genre of music. I've also heard that people with Si in their Super-Id block can periodically get fixated on their physical appearance, which is in contrast to their general nonchalance to it.

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    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    i can understand in a detached way why Te is useful to me and i can imagine how it would make me feel more comfortable and secure (hypothetically) but i'm a lot more consciously aware of an attraction to Ni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    i can understand in a detached way why Te is useful to me and i can imagine how it would make me feel more comfortable and secure (hypothetically) but i'm a lot more consciously aware of an attraction to Ni.
    I usually notice that I'm attracted to Te when I watch videos like this. I'm not even thinking about my finances atm, yet I can listen to something like this for hours.


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    boom boom boom blackburry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
    I usually notice that I'm attracted to Te when I watch videos like this. I'm not even thinking about my finances atm, yet I can listen to something like this for hours.


    mah. they are just trying to sell his book. I love how vague they are what "research" they did. I don't really equate Te with scams.





    I prefer Ni over Te. Ne and Ti is pretty cool too. just not all the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    mah. they are just trying to sell his book. I love how vague they are what "research" they did. I don't really equate Te with scams.





    I prefer Ni over Te. Ne and Ti is pretty cool too. just not all the time.
    Eww, I'm gullible.

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    boom boom boom blackburry's Avatar
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    awwww. iz ok.

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