Yeah, I'm in the 'very aware' boat too. It's ridiculous how many compensatory activities I engage in. It explains why I loved my painting classes, but I always felt like something somewhere was off... now it'll just torture me more 'cause I know what's going on... phooey.
Depends on who's description it is
But the idea fits very well. Harder to say about people, I don't think about people that much or what I desire from them (wich on the other hand fits the bill).
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
huh. well i just do not know what to think! i guess i must be able to live without it, which ever one it is. i can't relate to the people who know they need it....
either that or those functions have not been adequately described for SLE and ILE.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
i wonder if it depends on how much you've seen the function in the people around you. were you surrounded by Si/Ni dominants at any time, enough that you would see their benefit to you?Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively
i wouldn't have thought i needed Se until i got to know people who offered it to me without rubbing it in. people often go about trying to activate me in the wrong ways. i need somebody who's not passive aggressive, someone who'll not take or give any bullshit, someone without a disciplinarian/condescending tone when it comes to pushing me along, and someone who'll just pick up shit when i can't lift a finger (without seeming burdened). there is one ESFp coworker who recently came over and, after i had gone to work, took out several bags of garbage from my apartment -- didn't say a thing, just did it, also left three vases on my coffee table. the bags of garbage had been setting there for quite awhile, and more were piling up. i just couldn't bring myself to take them out and the longer i waited, the more i didn't want to take care of the problem. if she had asked me or tiptoed around the issue, i would have never let her do it. she sort of lightheartedly made fun of me after the fact, but only in a way that made me comfortable (almost like this is another reason for her to like me, heh, somehow...).
whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.
Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee
I don't really am conscious of my dual-seeking function, I think that over years I have been able to pull it off decently by myself.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
strange that the majority of the people is very Conscious of an Uncounscious function.
Let's me wonder if they all know what they are talking about. I've seen this often on this forum...
as a suggestive (5th) function (SEI and SLI)
The individual has great respect and admiration for people who are always pursuing something new and different and are not tied down to material things. He easily becomes attached to people who believe in his potential and praise him for his unique skills.
The person rarely emphasizes his talents, unique experience, or singularity publicly, but prefers to seem like "your average guy" so that others can relate to him easily. However, uniqueness and talent are often hidden under the surface and come out in close personal relationships. These types are sensitive about their talents and uniqueness because so often uniqueness creates distance between people rather than closeness. These types dream of having their uniqueness recognized, welcomed, and fostered by a close group, but "just in case" avoid emphasizing their uniqueness and talents in new or large group situations.As far as it goes, I would say this is very accurate indeed, and that I am quite aware of it.as a mobilizing (6th) function (ILI and SLI)
The individual longs for establishing stable personal relationships with other individuals based on mutual trust and understanding where deeper and private feelings and experiences can be easily shared. However, the individual lacks the initiative to establish such relationships and usually expects others to make gestures in that area, admiring those who do so.
I admire people who 'travel light', and long not necessarily to have the same lifestyle, but rather the ability to be able to choose it and have it be natural as opposed to forced. I tend to portray myself as an average guy, and in many ways I am, yet I have several interests and a certain method of behaviour that is unique (though perhaps not interesting or exciting). This is a point of contention because I often feel it shouldn't be publicly displayed as it will just invite unproductive ridicule (no one gives a shit about mass extinctions or arcane music trivia). I really value someone who can accept my oddities with grace and reflect back a type of subtle emotion. Alas, I don't know anyone who can do that (or who is willing to). Of course, I will never actually do anything to seek it out, either.
It's more a matter of noticing the results of not having it fulfilled.
If you've ever been in a position where your dual-seeking function is being consistently fulfilled, I don't know how you *couldn't* notice it. If you didn't *then* I'd have to wonder if you were typed correctly or if you knew what you were talking about. Or, of course, you just weren't used to it being fulfilled.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
I'm totally unconscious of my dual seeking function. I totally can't recognize myself in the description of it. But perhaps other people can. Have no clue.
perhaps you are not IEI. you should seriously consider this possibility.
Being aware of what my dual-seeking function is helped explain a lot of things about myself, also in the past.
It was also consistent with something Rick mentioned -- a crisis in your dual-seeking usually makes you look for help from everyone around you.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
I've been in that position as I told in my first post. Then I notice that I need those people. But it's way more abstract then most people here are telling.
I think this would makemy dual function. The only time I ever freak out is when something is fucked up in my status inside an administration (For example schooling, government, law and so on).
Lack of information about something you have to do and not knowing where to find it, that's a good example.What in the world would a Te crisis look like?
I definitely agree.I've been in that position as I told in my first post. Then I notice that I need those people. But it's way more abstract then most people here are telling.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I think --
1) You are trying to master a difficult subject. You are relying on specific sources -- maybe one book, or a person you trust, to ask questions. After a while you think you master it, but something happens - maybe you start to have doubts, maybe you have read a book that told you the opposite, maybe someone else - whom you also trust - told you that that original book, or that original person, was telling you lies or erroneous things. That makes you wonder what the truth is about that subject, and you start to ask other people and read lots of other books trying to find out what the truth is.
It's even worse if you think that someone whom you have trusted to tell you the truth has lied or told you nonsense.
2) You have made a major decision - on buying a house, made an investment, or something regarding a job. You were rather confident you had made the right decision, but then you become suspicious and/or someone tells you that that decision was actually disastrous, and there are signs of that. That makes you want to find out what, if anything, you did wrong in the original decision, in a "how could I have been so stupid" way.
Maybe how abstract it is depends on which function it is.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Yeah, those could qualify as examples. You might add to the frantic searching for opinions feelings of frustration (with oneself primarily) and a sense of despair over ever getting it right. That would apply to me, anyway.I think --
1) You are trying to master a difficult subject. You are relying on specific sources -- maybe one book, or a person you trust, to ask questions. After a while you think you master it, but something happens - maybe you start to have doubts, maybe you have read a book that told you the opposite, maybe someone else - whom you also trust - told you that that original book, or that original person, was telling you lies or erroneous things. That makes you wonder what the truth is about that subject, and you start to ask other people and read lots of other books trying to find out what the truth is.
It's even worse if you think that someone whom you have trusted to tell you the truth has lied or told you nonsense.
2) You have made a major decision - on buying a house, made an investment, or something regarding a job. You were rather confident you had made the right decision, but then you become suspicious and/or someone tells you that that decision was actually disastrous, and there are signs of that. That makes you want to find out what, if anything, you did wrong in the original decision, in a "how could I have been so stupid" way.
Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.
Wow, that sounds like my everyday life. Never would have thought of it in terms of Te. Man, does this clarify a few things for me. Thanks for posting this.I think --
1) You are trying to master a difficult subject. You are relying on specific sources -- maybe one book, or a person you trust, to ask questions. After a while you think you master it, but something happens - maybe you start to have doubts, maybe you have read a book that told you the opposite, maybe someone else - whom you also trust - told you that that original book, or that original person, was telling you lies or erroneous things. That makes you wonder what the truth is about that subject, and you start to ask other people and read lots of other books trying to find out what the truth is.
It's even worse if you think that someone whom you have trusted to tell you the truth has lied or told you nonsense.
2) You have made a major decision - on buying a house, made an investment, or something regarding a job. You were rather confident you had made the right decision, but then you become suspicious and/or someone tells you that that decision was actually disastrous, and there are signs of that. That makes you want to find out what, if anything, you did wrong in the original decision, in a "how could I have been so stupid" way.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
+1Wow, that sounds like my everyday life. Never would have thought of it in terms of Te. Man, does this clarify a few things for me. Thanks for posting this.I think --
1) You are trying to master a difficult subject. You are relying on specific sources -- maybe one book, or a person you trust, to ask questions. After a while you think you master it, but something happens - maybe you start to have doubts, maybe you have read a book that told you the opposite, maybe someone else - whom you also trust - told you that that original book, or that original person, was telling you lies or erroneous things. That makes you wonder what the truth is about that subject, and you start to ask other people and read lots of other books trying to find out what the truth is.
It's even worse if you think that someone whom you have trusted to tell you the truth has lied or told you nonsense.
2) You have made a major decision - on buying a house, made an investment, or something regarding a job. You were rather confident you had made the right decision, but then you become suspicious and/or someone tells you that that decision was actually disastrous, and there are signs of that. That makes you want to find out what, if anything, you did wrong in the original decision, in a "how could I have been so stupid" way.
INFj
9w1 sp/sx
I just figured out how I really do havedual seeking. Right now I found out I did not perform and I'm freaking out/worrying how to amend it. Crisis is precisely it. I'm wondering if other
phew glad i'm not the only one who can't see this so clearly.
maybe expat would be so kind as to define what each dual seeking crisis would look like? like since i'm trying to figure out between Si and Ni dual seeking? :wink:
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I haven't really thought all of them through.
I think a Ni dual-seeking crisis might be, perhaps, the "stereotypical" middle-age crisis -- you don't know what you're going to do with your life anymore, you don't know how to give it "meaning". Rather than always knowing where you were in your life, you "suddenly" realized you weren't young anymore, even though it was obvious that it would happen.
Or perhaps you reached a zenith - or dead-end - in your professional life, and you have no idea what to do with it next. Maybe like Marlon Brando moving to Tahiti and getting involved in "causes" that came to nothing.
Si+Te "crisis" might be something like realizing that you've taken on more concrete responsibilities than you can handle (failure of Se+Ti in Super-Ego), and your health and performance begin to wane because you just can't keep up any more.
haha - been there, done that. In fact, I'm probably working on a nice healthy crisis right now...
Another possibility for Si dual-seeking crisis --
You have started up too many things and moved on. You are hyper-active in having ideas and starting to explore them, actually quite busy mentally and physically doing that -- but suddenly you realize that none of those things you started got anywhere, because nobody was taking care of the details to actually implement them. You just expected others to take care of the details, but they didn't. You realize that you started a lot of things, none of which went anywhere, and at the same time you can't find ways to relax. You are over-excited and tense, yet haven't actually implemented any of the concepts you had.
Yup, I can see that too... So what would a
obviously it's hard for us to find out whether a our dual-seeking functions are conscious to us or not as we are all aware of them because of socionics, or at least more aware of them because of socionics. for me i often realize the weaknesses of my unconscious functions either in private after reflecting on situations that have gone wrong and how i could have ammended them(is that
i often realize my unconscious functions when im with others who have them as their strengths. perhaps because of the nature of
ESFp-Fi sub
6w7 sx/so/sp
1) SLI guy was raised in a low-Ne househould (LSI father, SEI mother, ESI sister) and married ESE woman. Having worked (successfully) in just one field, when he finds himself in a professional dead-end he can't even conceive of moving sideways and doing something just somewhat different. He's stuck in a "I am experienced in this, that's all I have to offer". However, sometimes I think he just needs a "crazy" IEE to show up and see how "obvious" it is that he can do different things.
2) SEI guy has always worked in the same company, selling exactly the same thing to the same industrial sector. He knows everything there is to know about that company and that sector. After a few years the company has decreasing sales and has to look for other markets, new sectors. SEI guy is totally paralyzed and just hopes that someone - anyone - will present him with new ideas as to where to look for new customers in new sectors.
i relate this. i did have a vicious mid life crisis where i no longer knew what to do and questioned everything that i had been doing and where i had to totally re-prioritize my life. part of the crisis was spiritual and looking for meaning and what was the most important thing. but not so much about not being young anymore.I think a Ni dual-seeking crisis might be, perhaps, the "stereotypical" middle-age crisis -- you don't know what you're going to do with your life anymore, you don't know how to give it "meaning". Rather than always knowing where you were in your life, you "suddenly" realized you weren't young anymore, even though it was obvious that it would happen.
Or perhaps you reached a zenith - or dead-end - in your professional life, and you have no idea what to do with it next. Maybe like Marlon Brando moving to Tahiti and getting involved in "causes" that came to nothing.
i relate to about half of this....part of the mid life problem was not being able to relax, being tense, getting sick with endocrine problems. it's not that the things i started were unfinished, it was more that they were strategically not designed well enough to achieve what i wanted them to achieve, not that they were lacking in follow through or detail. i didn't expect anybody to do anything either.Another possibility for Si dual-seeking crisis --
You have started up too many things and moved on. You are hyper-active in having ideas and starting to explore them, actually quite busy mentally and physically doing that -- but suddenly you realize that none of those things you started got anywhere, because nobody was taking care of the details to actually implement them. You just expected others to take care of the details, but they didn't. You realize that you started a lot of things, none of which went anywhere, and at the same time you can't find ways to relax. You are over-excited and tense, yet haven't actually implemented any of the concepts you had.
and this is precisely how i relate to Ne/Se. like i've got a foot in each. weird.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I noticed a couple years before, before I even heard of MBTI, let alone Socionics, I was always attracted to the emo/goth kids, which was weird for a nerdy kid.
The way they carried themselves, they had new ideas, they were different. I think it's also tied into my HA of "to understand", which I've always tried to do.
I always wondered this about myself, until I discovered Socionics. My dual-seeking function made so much sense when I read it.
D-SEI9w1
This is me and my dual being scientific together
To say the obvious, the difference is that the one is connected to (or influenced by) Ni-Se and the other, to Ne-Si.
But as to how that affects the actual expectations and "crises", I'm not sure yet how to properly phrase it.
Si Crisis:
There was a time, many years ago, when I suffered for lack of Si in my life. I had this very bad moment that felt like a microcosm of my life at the time.
I was driving somewhere (I don't remember specifically where) and my car ran out of gas, because I never seemed to remember to fill the tank. It was the winter and I had to walk quite a way to the gas station, but I hadn't dressed appropriately for the weather so I was freezing. It was all slushy and I wasn't wearing boots and my feet were wet and cold and I kept slipping. And I'd forgotten to eat breakfast that morning so I was hungry and uncomfortable. This was one of the worst moments in my life. I was miserable. Luckily, I ran into someone I knew at the gas station and she gave me a lift back to my car. Still, I remember walking to the gas station and I kept thinking in my head the whole walk how much my life sucked.
This kind of thing happened over and over and over again.
An Si crisis is when a bunch of things you haven't taken care of hit you at once. You forgot to pay a bill and you feel stupid because you were *sure* you'd put in in the mail and there it was acting as a bookmark in a book you were reading, and you don't have any groceries in the house and you are hungry, and your car is making a funny noise and you don't want to take it somewhere because they'll probably rip you off and you'll be without your car for a week, and you don't have enough time to get laundry done before work so you're going to end up being late, and it feels like the universe is caving in on you. You feel helpless and unable to take care of yourself.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
this does sound like an IEE crisis, sort of related to not being organized and the consequences for comfort issues. seems like it could be connected to a Ti polr. ILE crisis would likely be connected to some kind of relationship issue.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
how do you distinguish between
whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.
Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee
SEE to ILI: "we're going to have a relationship and you'll want to, because I won't ever give up until that happens"how do you distinguish between
SLE to IEI: "this is what we are going to do in your lives, because I am certain I know what we have to do, let's get moving"
i see. i would definitely doubt/resist against the latter. don't like to be told what to do in my life....and would certainly not want someone else responsible for planning my actions.SEE to ILI: "we're going to have a relationship and you'll want to, because I won't ever give up until that happens"how do you distinguish between
SLE to IEI: "this is what we are going to do in your lives, because I am certain I know what we have to do, let's get moving"
but i would be comforted by the former. the choice of whether to act is still mine but the energy/determination needed to bring me to the point of decision is being provided.
correct me if i've gotten the wrong distinction.
whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.
Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee
That's not exactly what I was getting at; I was trying to illustrate the difference between Se + Fi and Se + Ti.
Even in Se + Ti it's not about planning the actions, it's about "tactical implementation within an agreed-upon path".
so, how we get from point A to point B when A --> B has been decided by both of us. (IEI and SLE)
versus
how we get to point A when the point that follows A hasn't been decided yet. (ILI and SEE)
whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.
Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee
I am curious, Expat, how does the absence of Ni (& Ne) manifest in their relationship? or in any SLI-ESE relationship? How does it look like IRL?
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
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