Props to ISFj

[Joy]

the whole thing is so Ni Te (at least Je) i think.

Stop with the Je and Ji! I'm not saying that because the Socionics slang annoys me, I'm saying it because this whole concept just seems to be confusing you. It's unwise to define a person's actions or reasoning in terms of "Je" or "Ji" because while Te and Fe (and Ti and Fi) are more alike than Te and Te (and Fe and Fi), they're still different enough that this practice will only serve to confuse the situation. First of all, information elements cannot work independently of each other. This is why Se + Ti apparently looks like Te to a lot of people. Ti cannot work in a vacuum. It needs Ne or Se (or whatever). When you see Ti (or Ti) working with Ne or Se (or whatever), it's not always easy to separate out each of the information elements like you're trying to do when you call behavior Je or Ji.

[implied]

lol YESSSS!!!!!!!!!! can i point out that this is obviously an explicit example of Fe manipulation on my part?

i would say Se/Fi support, which has a great likelihood of being wrong.

you as an INTp would surely be able to tell when someone is being deceptive with that keen polr lie detector.

[FDG]

what a mess this topic has become, and it's all my fault

btw joy, je and ji and pe and pi have been used since like, years

[Joy]

what a mess this topic has become, and it's all my fault

It's because of you, but I wouldn't say it's all your fault... you're just trying to discuss your understanding the theory, right? That's what we're all doing.

btw joy, je and ji and pe and pi have been used since like, years

And they may be useful when talking about information aspects, but not information elements (which is why dee shouldn't try to use them to analyze human behavior or reasoning).

[FDG]

what a mess this topic has become, and it's all my fault

It's because of you, but I wouldn't say it's all your fault... you're just trying to discuss your understanding the theory, right? That's what we're all doing.

btw joy, je and ji and pe and pi have been used since like, years

And they may be useful when talking about information aspects, but not information elements (which is why dee shouldn't try to use them to analyze human behavior or reasoning).

Yeah probably the Je Pi jargon is only useful when discussing pure theory

[Joy]

It's because of you, but I wouldn't say it's all your fault... you're just trying to discuss your understanding the theory, right? That's what we're all doing.

it ***could*** be that this is Ti as Te is actual reality and Ti is the mental model of it, our perception of it

I'm not so sure about that... what you're talking about sounds too abstract to be Ti. Ti is external, not internal (in terms of external vs. internal as used to describe S/T vs. N/F).

(Ji would also be the reasons/laws/motivations for Je)

I'm curious as to where you got this idea. Are you proposing that Ti is the motivation for Te or for Fe?

[FDG]

Geez. Can't we just everybody go have a drink.

[Joy]

I'm working on it! (going to the store to get beer, that is)

[Ms. Kensington]

Oh boy, I was trying to hold back laughter

one of our senior RAs is an ESI, and she was busting on an ESE partier. I heard the ESE complaining about it, whining - it was great. Really. This SRA is actually really good about things, too - she's level, smart, and pretty hot, too.

So yes, props to ESIs.


I love it when people take their jobs seriously. And I couldn't help but enjoy the ESE squirming in agony when recalling getting busted.

btw, others' (collectively) happiness is what an ESFj does, thats why it worked when rules are enforced. Not sure if you were saying this is a type related thing, or just that this rule enforcer happened to be ISFj.

[UDP]

What are you talking about MsK?

PS: after reading everything in this thread, well, it seems pretty messed up. Good luck folks.