The military

[ataronchronon]

I've been in it for 3 years now and I find it to be heavily oriented. It's definitely not LII or EII friendly. What's interesting is that I know at least 6 other LIIs in the military that I work with, one of which has been in for over 10 years, another one is a female officer. I've found some sort of an alpha sanctuary within the military that is almost completely devoid of . It's gotten to the point where I'm almost afraid to leave my office because of all the beta STs and gamma NTs out there. My command structure is kinda complicated, but my immediate boss is currently the officer and the next one up is the 10 year LII and the next higher up is an LSE. They're all very intelligent and cool people (the officer is kinda rigid and uneasy though, I think the officer-enlisted thing complicates it a bit, especially for an LII who finds it hard enough as it is to act properly).

Of course every now and then I have to put on a show and respect authority and keep my mouth shut and it's kind of annoying, but bearable. I know an ESE, an SEI, some SLIs and they're all really cool, but I would say the people that I work with who piss me off the most are the ILEs. I don't know what it is, maybe that they take their role too seriously or something, but they just piss me off. I really need to learn how to handle them. Any advice? I'll also answer any questions about the military if you have any.

[UDP]

Just think of everything as business as usual. If it bothers you that much you should probably look into getting out.

LIIs especially should be able to detach themselves from their surroundings - just get cold. And prepare yourself every day for a lack of Fe. "train for the cold"



My favorite bit of an LII profile...

Ascetic. He appears extremely uncompromising, often looks down with a piercing look from under his philosopher’s forehead. He toughens himself, training for the cold, starvation, losses and disapproval of others.

http://the16types.info/types.php?typename=INTJ


Just prepare for it. And stay connected to those people you do like, find relaxing people to be around in your spare time. Acknowledge your needs and act accordingly.



But yeah.... Just think of everything as business as usual. That is my current advice. Just see it as your job, and don't get too caught up in it. Detach. (Seriously, though, hopefully you're not locked into this for a long time).

[ataronchronon]

oh, you misunderstand, it is business as usual because they're just annoying in general. ILEs are probably the most annoying type, I get so tired of entertaining their hidden agenda. I just want them to shut up, but the less I react, or the more I "remove" myself, the harder they try to get me to react. Maybe if I "hit" their hidden agenda... Anyway, I'm going to stay in because it's the best opportunity available and it's really not that bad--there's just a certain amount of shit I have to put up with every now and then. It's worth the free health care and all the other cool stuff I get.

I'm going to go ahead and say ILEs are the most annoying type (or at least have the potential to be extremely annoying). Suck it.

Courage (UDP), you give advice like my boss (the LSE) does. It's really not something I need to hear and I can generally figure it out on my own. I'm not giving you here. I want to know how I can affect the people around me, not "business as usual". That doesn't mean anything to me.

[Ezra]

What I've found about the military is how deceptively Se it is. No, the British Army is an LSE thing. Te (practicalities, finding ways of doing things effectively, intake and categorisation of information) coupled with Si (iron your fucking uniform over and over and over again; you need to look the part; wear your boots out so that you're comfortable; wear a poppy; look neat; blah blah fucking blah). They do not value Se, because Se means rebellion in certain troops. Everyone, however, MUST be uniform, and must work as a team, or it doesn't work. If you have one dickhead commando going off on his own little mission, he'll be fucked in seconds. The army is one, and they've always taught that. Their ethos is great, they don't fiddle around with shitty gun twirling like the US, and they are the most well-trained in the world. That's why the British Army is the best one in the world!

[Suomea]

oh, you misunderstand, it is business as usual because they're just annoying in general. ILEs are probably the most annoying type, I get so tired of entertaining their hidden agenda. I just want them to shut up, but the less I react, or the more I "remove" myself, the harder they try to get me to react. Maybe if I "hit" their hidden agenda... Anyway, I'm going to stay in because it's the best opportunity available and it's really not that bad--there's just a certain amount of shit I have to put up with every now and then. It's worth the free health care and all the other cool stuff I get.

I'm going to go ahead and say ILEs are the most annoying type (or at least have the potential to be extremely annoying). Suck it.

Courage (UDP), you give advice like my boss (the LSE) does. It's really not something I need to hear and I can generally figure it out on my own. I'm not giving you :Fi: here. I want to know how I can affect the people around me, not "business as usual". That doesn't mean anything to me.

God I hate LIIs sometimes...... you people are so fucking worthless some of the time. All you have to do is smile and have a good time.... that's it. You bring down Fe moods sooooooooo much. And you guys think you're so smart but your not.... but you don't realize it til I shove it down your face and make you see how your wrong......god. And you guys are too big of pussies to say anything you really think..... thats what annoys me most of all. I have to do all your fucking dirty work. And ENTps we are annoying once in awhile...... especially when we are around you because we have to work twice as hard to get a fucking smile. All you have to do is smile and let yourself go..... which is what you want to do anyways, and you completely enjoy yourselves once you do.

To be honest it's more that INTjs like to siphon off the Fe and not provide any of it themselves. And ENTps like to siphon off the Si and not provide any of it themselves. I just got all rilled up because an Alpha was badmouthing us.

P.S. I've only really noticed this in male INTjs. Female INTjs normally produce a sufficient amount of Fe so I never have a problem with them......:)

[Gilly]

I just want them to shut up, but the less I react, or the more I "remove" myself, the harder they try to get me to react.

You sure they're not Ti-SLEs?

[UDP]

It sounds like you want someone to pander for your emotions, and go talk to those people that are bothering you to they are more warm towards you(?). I'm not an ESE, sorry.

I want to know how I can affect the people around me

With your own energy and attitude.

[ataronchronon]

God I hate LIIs sometimes...... you people are so fucking worthless some of the time. All you have to do is smile and have a good time.... that's it. You bring down Fe moods sooooooooo much. And you guys think you're so smart but your not.... but you don't realize it til I shove it down your face and make you see how your wrong......god. And you guys are too big of pussies to say anything you really think..... thats what annoys me most of all. I have to do all your fucking dirty work. And ENTps we are annoying once in awhile...... especially when we are around you because we have to work twice as hard to get a fucking smile. All you have to do is smile and let yourself go..... which is what you want to do anyways, and you completely enjoy yourselves once you do.

To be honest it's more that INTjs like to siphon off the Fe and not provide any of it themselves. And ENTps like to siphon off the Si and not provide any of it themselves. I just got all rilled up because an Alpha was badmouthing us.

P.S. I've only really noticed this in male INTjs. Female INTjs normally produce a sufficient amount of Fe so I never have a problem with them......

Oh fuck you I'm a joking sort of guy, just not ALL THE TIME. It takes energy to joke around, smile and laugh and I don't always have that energy. For the longest time I couldn't leave my desk without something from it going missing--stolen, of course by some jackass ENTp. Do you have a nasal sounding voice? There are 3 ENTps I have in mind that have this really high pitched nasal voice that really starts to bug me after a while. Then again, one of my best friends is an ENTp. He's really chill. When I'm in my area without the ILEs, I take the role of the joker and we have a lot of fun. Trust me, I put out enough to make me doubt my type, it's just the kind of humor I use vs. the relentless onslaught of jokes you guys use. Plus, if someone does not appear to be in a joking mood, I don't try to put them in one by making more jokes. There's a key difference there.

I guess this would be one of those arguments that mirrors get into.

Oh, Ezra, maybe the British military is oriented, but the American military is not. Well, for the most part it is , but it varies as you go to different areas. There's this one office nearby and just watching them for a while is like the movie "Waiting". Everyone's constantly playing jokes on each other and calling each other gay. My office is very alpha friendly, comparatively speaking.

I know at least one SLE that I used to work with and he was cool to have around. He did the same reaction seeking as the ILEs, but to a lesser extent. He had the best stories. Occasionally I would provoke a bad reaction, but most of the time he was a jolly sort of guy. The ILEs I know are definitely not SLEs because if I can actually get them to calm down, we can get along pretty well.

[Ezra]

Oh, Ezra, maybe the British military is oriented, but the American military is not. Well, for the most part it is , but it varies as you go to different areas. There's this one office nearby and just watching them for a while is like the movie "Waiting". Everyone's constantly playing jokes on each other and calling each other gay.

You could be right; it could be a Se-related thing. But in the LSE, it's demonstrative i.e. it's a joke. But on the battlefield, you don't want retards with an overload of Se, or you end up with a massacre or a discharge instead of a tactical in-and-out mission.

[ataronchronon]

To the ENTps here: I hold nothing against you. The ones I'm referring to seem unusual in my experience and I know you guys can't be all bad. Again, one of my best friend's is an ENTp. Now that I think about it, when I first met him 5 or so years ago he annoyed the crap out of me too, but eventually we sorta stuck together. The military ENTps seem to be a "special" breed and I don't like them at all.

To Courage/UDP: I didn't mean to knock you down, I wasn't making my request clear enough, and I wasn't really sure if I had a question to begin with. It was mainly a rant, I wasn't exactly looking for advice.

Suomea: Um, yea they are a special breed. I don't know you, and again, I'm not going to associate them with you, as should you not associate other INTjs with me. I do, however, not speak my mind most of the time. You guys seem so happy all the time and I really hate to knock you down, so I tend to keep my mouth shut and/or leave the room when I'm being worn out with an endless onslaught of jokes. I want to hear more about your motives though. Why do you insist on making everyone laugh all the time? Just what is the driving force behind that Hidden Agenda of yours? How would I let you know you're being inappropriate?

Also, Ezra you may very well be right. The overall structure of the military is probably , but the people--especially enlisted--are all about in day to day matters and with building camaraderie. When things get serious, however, the mood changes very quickly to .

[Ezra]

Which is exactly why LSE would fare best in any military institution.

I've just joined the OTC, and thus far, the training has been either intense practically or lessons loaded with theory, which is essentially information to be used practically. It is the height of organisation, categorisation and utilisation of said information; thus it is Te. However, an LIE would not do that well I don't think. There are no genuine prospects to satisfy their Ni. It's basically learning at a steady pace everything you need to know in the field. They're not even that bothered about timings, save your reactions to orders and how quickly you can load a magazine. You can take as long as you like with weapon safety checks. But if you fuck up on weapon handling safety i.e. you fire off a round when you're not supposed to, and you get an ND (Negligent Discharge), you will be fined £500. You will probably never go on the range again, and your skill-at-arms teacher from the beginning will be hauled off to jail for improper teaching and passing of a test you should've failed. That's how much importance the Army places on proper carrying out of safety checks. Thus, an LSE would have no problem. An SLE would be less likely to give a shit about the theory and keeping clean and tidy in person, and more concerned about popping a few rounds in some heads. However, if they got their act together and controlled themselves, they'd do fine.

[Blaze]

I just want them to shut up, but the less I react, or the more I "remove" myself, the harder they try to get me to react.

You sure they're not Ti-SLEs?

that's exactly what i was thinking. ILE should not piss you off. but as your socinoics supervisor an SLE sure would! and ya can magnify this by a factor of 10 if the SLE is your actual supervisor, to boot.

[Suomea]

Suomea: Um, yea they are a special breed. I don't know you, and again, I'm not going to associate them with you, as should you not associate other INTjs with me. I do, however, not speak my mind most of the time. You guys seem so happy all the time and I really hate to knock you down, so I tend to keep my mouth shut and/or leave the room when I'm being worn out with an endless onslaught of jokes. I want to hear more about your motives though. Why do you insist on making everyone laugh all the time? Just what is the driving force behind that Hidden Agenda of yours? How would I let you know you're being inappropriate?

So basically my best friend from high school is a male INTj. Periodically I can sense that I wear down his outgoingness while I still have all the energy in the world. I love making people laugh and make them enjoy themselves beyond what they've enjoyed themselves before. I normally don't try to force anyone to comply to having a good time and there are times where I get very serious, but having a good time is kinda a conditional for hanging out with me. If someone wants to hang out with me they have to be willing to have a good time. I think the problem that occurs with male INTjs is that they really like Fe.... they can get really goofy and funny sometimes but after a little while they cram back into their Ijness, and I feel that they were a little disappointed in themselves that they got so Fe. Anyway I really don't mind if someone doesn't want to get into an Fe mood... I just mind if they hold some sort of grudge towards me or look down on me for wanting to have a good time. If you want these ENTps (if thats what they are) to stop trying to make you smile all the time I would tell them:

"Can I talk to you........Look, I really like you quite a bit but sometimes you try and make me laugh and get me into a goofy mood when all I really need to do is concentrate on my work. I know we enjoy ourselves sometimes but there are times when I just need to be serious. Is that alright?"

[tcaudilllg]

Well you've got an SLE commander-in-chief, and until a year ago you had an LII SoD. (Rumsfeld) David Patreus seems to be the guy who's really in charge now, though, at least in Iraq. (perhaps he always was) He seems ILE to me. Gates, the new SoD... I haven't figured him yet.