what JEAN TYPE does rmcnew wear? CERTAINLY NOT LEVIS!!!1!

[stevENTj]

Personally I think these rmcnew witch hunt threads are pretty damned funny.

First you guys were trying to prove that he's a moron and doesn't have a clue in my ENTj/ENxj thread. Pretty crappy place to claim that dontchathink? considering, ya know, he did get my type right! So yeah, that one didn't work out so well so what's up next? Trying to prove that he's not really an ENTp. Okay fine, but somebody (not naming names) argues for EII (INFp?) oh come on.... http://infp.globalchatter.com is a whole site of INFPs (granted it's MBTI) but they are nothing like Reuben believe me. I was on that site for a bit because I was testing as INFP so I figured I'd check it out. You guys can't be serious. Okay so you argue that it's because his Te is weak. Just because his Te is weak doesn't mean that it's his PoLR function and that he therefore must be an INFp, lol. That's reeeeeaaallly stretching it, dontchathink? Then there's a thread about him posting a picture. Wow let me guess, if he posted a real picture of himself those on the witch hunt would cry out, "see, you don't look like an ENTp therefore you're NOT an ENTp!!!1!!!1one!!!eleven!!!"

A few observations... After all of this criticism and hostility...

(1) the fact that he posted up a thread with his personal description asking for more debate should show that he has some seriously strong . Yes, even after being called nearly ever name in the book, being called stupid, idiot, moron, blah blah blah, he still posts up a thread asking for debate. Wow! That is truly serious Ne.

(2) the fact that he's never really reacted that strongly emotionally should tell you that he has next to zero . The few outbursts I've seen have been purely sarcasm and characteristic of NTs. On the two automotive sites I have run (15k and 55k members) never in my life have I seen somebody react with less emotion to such strong criticism. It's amazing to me. Oh but wait, the one person that has been able to take criticism like that and seriously not react with any emotion at all was none other than another ENTp (MBTI test). Coincidence? I think not. It just goes to show that you can criticize the shit out of ENTps (and ESTps with PoLR Fi) and they're just not going to "feel" very much.

(3) If he really was an INFp, 2nd strong function would be , and I'd think it'd be going crazy with all of the flaming you guys are doing. But again, there's no strong reaction there. Also, it's very clear he's dominantly Ne, not Ni, so that should rule out INFp.

(4) The other Ne type is ENFp. But wait, there's two big problems here with that. Fi is now 2nd strong function and he should be reacting emotionally and strongly to all of the flaming and criticism but he isn't. Secondly, is PoLR for an ENFp and you can't possibly say he has horribly weak Ti. Te maybe, but no way in hell Ti. So that rules out ENFp.

(5) Back to my perspective of running my car sites. I've seen a lot of people get flamed, I've done a lot of flaming myself, and I know how different people react. The completely totally emotionless is characteristic of people with PoLR Fi, and anybody else would have cracked and gone ballistic by now. There's two types to choose from, ESTp or ENTp. ESTp's when pissed off will tend to go into full attack mode with but Reuben just isn't doing that. He may be replying back, but he's clearly using , not Se.

(6) Conclusion: He's ENTp!


It's funny how you guys are so desperate to "get mcnew" that you're literally line iteming him, seeing something that he says or describes that does not sound ENTp to you, and therefore based on that one line trying to claim that he can't possibly be ENTp. That's nonsense! I'm sure I said something in this thread that doesn't sound ENTj to you, but does that mean I'm not ENTj? No. Just like I could type up a description of myself too and if somebody with a stick up their ass and a vendetta against me really wanted to, they could line item me on something and then parade around the entire forum claiming that I'm not really ENTj because of that. With as long as it took me to figure out my true type, I'm obviously not your stereotypical ENTj so it probably wouldn't be hard to find examples. Is mcnew a stereotypical ENTp? How long did it take for him to find his type?

This groupthink "get mcnew" witch hunting is fun to watch. I never took a college psych class but took sociology instead. The one thing I remember from that was that all it takes is a spark or one event and suddenly you can get a whole group of people pretty much acting the same way, with one mind, and one mission, and in this case it's "get mcnew", somehow, anyhow. Classic! And in case anybody's wondering, *YES*, I have had groups of people so pissed off at me on forums that they've witch-hunted me and believe me there is no logic to it whatsoever. It is purely an emotional reaction. I piss them off, they're angry, resentful, and upset, and therefore they must "get me" in whatever way they can. Maybe I prove something absolutely true that they didn't want to believe was true (therefore I must die), or maybe I banned one of their buddies that threatened somebody. Their buddy can do no wrong though, therefore I'm a biased hater Nazi mode who had "no right" to ban (and must die). It's funny everytime it happens, but believe me it happens. I've had groups of people so pissed off at me that those groups have started their very own web forums where they could flame and say whatever they wanted to about me (without getting banned) where the main bond between the key members of the site was that they all hated me. I even had a smiley created in my honor because they hated me so much. <---

Anyways, some of you guys sure do have a lot of anger and resentment that you're venting out, which I do understand also. But eventually that'll die away and you'll return to your normal selves. Either that or you'll let it take control of you and let it ruin you. Can't wait to see the future thread topics...

- mcnew post a video. you don't WALK like an ENTp, therefore you're NOT an ENTp
- mcnew post a voice clip. you don't TALK like an ENTp, therefore you're NOT an ENTp
- mcnew what kind of car do you drive? That isn't the kind of car an ENTp would drive, therefore you're NOT an ENTp!
- mcnew what brand of shirts do you wear...
- mcnew do you go to a barber or a stylist?
- mcnew do you see movies in the theater or rent?
- mcnew do you get up on the left or the right side of the bed?
- do you shower first and then shave, or shave first and then shower?


GIVE IT UP ALREADY!!!

[Satan]

The thing is, when he posts things like that. It just shows that he's doubtful.

This can be a strength. But it can also be a weakness.

And once this weakness is shown, it'll be hilighted time after time.

The best action to take, is to erradicate the people that are just getting in the way, and aren't contributing anything positive.

[stevENTj]

The thing is, when he posts things like that. It just shows that he's doubtful.

Disagree. It just means he has strong and always wants to hear different views. Maybe, just maybe, somebody will have something interesting that causes him to take pause and then he has to about it. Maybe they're right, and then he learns something new, and sees something a different way. Is that not what ENTp's are all about?

I favor my judging function. If you see me posting up a thread like that then *YES* I'm probably "doubting" my type. In my ENTj/ENxj I was pretty sure I was ENTj but just wanted to hear some 2nd opinions first before coming to a conclusion and Te'ing myself (categorization) officially into ENTjdom. If I post a description of myself now then yes, I would be doubting for sure. Otherwise for me what would be the point? I'm not looking for different views anymore because I've already come to a conclusion and I'm a J. Time to move on and do something else. But McNew is a P, similar to me but also clearly different.

If people see him posting that thread and interpret it as a "weakness" and that he's "doubting" then do they really understand the difference between one who favors their perceiving function and their judging function? I'm very very close between Te (J) and Ne (P). My brain can operate either way, but it favors Te (J). I can be very very sure and confident of something, but that doesn't mean I don't want to hear opposing arguments. My always tells me, maybe there's something you missed. You should hear them anyways. Doesn't matter if I'm 99.9% sure and confident. What about the 0.1% that I'm not sure of. There's always a chance. Always another view. That's

People on another forum have told me that despite being a TJ I can still sound very TP-ish. It's because of my strong Ne, telling me that I should always be open to hearing other views.

[Satan]

The thing is, when he posts things like that. It just shows that he's doubtful.

Disagree. It just means he has strong and always wants to hear different views. Maybe, just maybe, somebody will have something interesting that causes him to take pause and then he has to about it. Maybe they're right, and then he learns something new, and sees something a different way. Is that not what ENTp's are all about?

I favor my judging function. If you see me posting up a thread like that then *YES* I'm probably "doubting" my type. In my ENTj/ENxj I was pretty sure I was ENTj but just wanted to hear some 2nd opinions first before coming to a conclusion and Te'ing myself (categorization) officially into ENTjdom. If I post a description of myself now then yes, I would be doubting for sure. Otherwise for me what would be the point? I'm not looking for different views anymore because I've already come to a conclusion and I'm a J. Time to move on and do something else. But McNew is a P, similar to me but also clearly different.

If people see him posting that thread and interpret it as a "weakness" and that he's "doubting" then do they really understand the difference between one who favors their perceiving function and their judging function? I'm very very close between Te (J) and Ne (P). My brain can operate either way, but it favors Te (J). I can be very very sure and confident of something, but that doesn't mean I don't want to hear opposing arguments. My always tells me, maybe there's something you missed. You should hear them anyways. Doesn't matter if I'm 99.9% sure and confident. What about the 0.1% that I'm not sure of. There's always a chance. Always another view. That's

People on another forum have told me that despite being a TJ I can still sound very TP-ish. It's because of my strong Ne, telling me that I should always be open to hearing other views.

Yeah, I should have realised that bias.

My Ne is shot at the moment. IT IS REALLY PISSING ME OFF.

I hate being in doubt about my type

And as soon as I know, with certianty, I'm likely to close off to type-doubts from nay-sayers.

I did actually talk to rmc earlier - and I really didn't feel comfortable with him going about this. I only just read the text earlier. (after I'd written that message above to be honest) And it's really completely different than I thought it'd be.

What I think he's actually doing is, justifying things to himself. And the way he's doing it, just makes him look bad. To me, it looks like he's trying to get people to accept him, for what he is. But that what he really needs to do is accept himself, to a high enough level, that he can simply dismiss these irrelevant people.

There could be interesting insights, I realise this. It's just so slim, that I don't believe that it's a useful path to take. Certainly not at this time.

I'm taking a lot of my own biases in here. If someone asks me to do something, I won't automatically do it.

The thing is - to stay open. We have to doubt. If we're confident in our type, then how can we take insight? Actually, that reads like complete bullshit; okay. So there's a difference between being confident but open. And doubting, but closed. And doubting, and open. And I see doubt as closed, and confident as open. And so me reading him as doubting, is also making an assumption that he's closed, and just trying to justify to himself.

When really, entp's are in a constant state of doubt, ready to take in new information. That opens their horizons. I find that hard to fathom.

I can switch between P and J as well. I don't know what functions I'm using though.

Also, I've noticed another bias. When I think of ENTp, I think it in the context, of the "wider world", not within themselves. I see themself, as someone who relates to the world. And that's how he was writing.

Thankyou, I understand what he's doing now. You seem to have a pretty good awareness of ENTp's. Do you know many in real life?

[Expat]

When really, entp's are in a constant state of doubt, ready to take in new information. That opens their horizons. I find that hard to fathom.

First, I totally agree with steventj's points

And, despite the judging/perceiving differences, I'd say that the "open to new horizons" stance can be found in all xNTxs to a smaller or lesser degree.

It is particularly the xSxj types that tend to go for a state of "certainty" and "no doubts" especially ISxjs, with their hidden agenda . They may perceive this as "strength" or "being confident"; xNTx types tend to see it as being "thick".

[stevENTj]

What I think he's actually doing is, justifying things to himself. And the way he's doing it, just makes him look bad. To me, it looks like he's trying to get people to accept him, for what he is. But that what he really needs to do is accept himself, to a high enough level, that he can simply dismiss these irrelevant people.

There could be interesting insights, I realise this. It's just so slim, that I don't believe that it's a useful path to take. Certainly not at this time.

Yes, I agree. He wants people to accept him, he's said that, and that's the hidden agenda ( ) for none other than an ENTp also. But yeah, when people are in witch hunt "get mcnew" mode you're not likely to get much good feedback because the few here that could give honest debate are the ones on the witch hunt. I don't think he necessarily sees that due to weak Fe/Fi. I wouldnt have posted up his self description thread either. Maybe in a week or a month after people have cooled off and gotten all of this nonsense out of their systems, move on from it, and could actually be objective. Certainly not now though.

The thing is - to stay open. We have to doubt. If we're confident in our type, then how can we take insight? Actually, that reads like complete bullshit; okay. So there's a difference between being confident but open. And doubting, but closed. And doubting, and open. And I see doubt as closed, and confident as open. And so me reading him as doubting, is also making an assumption that he's closed, and just trying to justify to himself.

When really, entp's are in a constant state of doubt, ready to take in new information. That opens their horizons. I find that hard to fathom.

There are things that I believe in very firmly and will defend valiantly with my Hidden Agenda. BUT... if you present to me a very strong and well-constructed argument from the opposing side, my may kick in, realize that I'm wrong, and in which case I'm not going to argue with you, but instead THANK you for opening me up to a new view. This doesn't happen often, but it happens. One very recent example is mcnew (and rocky) telling me that I'm an Extrovert. That was a real "WTF" moment for me, because never in a million years would I have thought that I was really an Extrovert. But I was doubting and open at that point. Now I'm confident but more closed and "set". If you've got something and it's good lets hear it, but otherwise please don't waste my time.

Thankyou, I understand what he's doing now. You seem to have a pretty good awareness of ENTp's. Do you know many in real life?

No. Well, I think one of my coworkers is ENTp, but beyond that no, aside from one or two I've interacted with on my automotive forums. Beyond that I can definitely get into ENTp modes myself, and both rocky and rmcnew initially thought I was an ENTp if you go and read some of my earliest threads here.

[stevENTj]

First, I totally agree with steventj's points

And, despite the judging/perceiving differences, I'd say that the "open to new horizons" stance can be found in all xNTxs to a smaller or lesser degree.

It is particularly the xSxj types that tend to go for a state of "certainty" and "no doubts" especially ISxjs, with their hidden agenda . They may perceive this as "strength" or "being confident"; xNTx types tend to see it as being "thick".

That's interesting that you mention that because yes there's a world of difference between NT's and SJ's on that. The ISxj HA of "to believe" I guess is what makes them so strongly defend whatever they believe in, because they subconsciously want to have stability and no doubts like you say.

Speaking of which, my wife still thinks she's ESTj. I know how pointless it would be to tell her that she's really an ISFj because (a) she doesn't really care anyways, (b) she firmly "believes" that she's ESTj since that's how she tested (inaccurately), (c) I would be PoLR slapping her with if I tried to explain it to her and that goes nowhere, and (d) what difference would it make with her anyways? None. Not gonna bother.

[Satan]

When really, entp's are in a constant state of doubt, ready to take in new information. That opens their horizons. I find that hard to fathom.

First, I totally agree with steventj's points

And, despite the judging/perceiving differences, I'd say that the "open to new horizons" stance can be found in all xNTxs to a smaller or lesser degree.

It is particularly the xSxj types that tend to go for a state of "certainty" and "no doubts" especially ISxjs, with their hidden agenda . They may perceive this as "strength" or "being confident"; xNTx types tend to see it as being "thick".

It depends. Sometimes it helps.

It's possible to close some things off, and leave others open. And it's possile to only open things where it's actually going to be positive.

Like, I'd go blind to consideration of my type, and ignore the arguements against, in rmcnew's thread.

It's more that they stick open.

It's also possible to hold a strong conviction, be closed. And still take in new things. Without changing your strong conviction. But merely layering it on top. And then if it's pointless, just discarding it. Whereas if it has point, changing the initial conviction.

[Rocky]

StevENTj, your original post here makes you no better than marcus the maniac, really.

[Satan]

All your earlier stuff made sense.

Thankyou, I understand what he's doing now. You seem to have a pretty good awareness of ENTp's. Do you know many in real life?

No. Well, I think one of my coworkers is ENTp, but beyond that no, aside from one or two I've interacted with on my automotive forums. Beyond that I can definitely get into ENTp modes myself, and both rocky and rmcnew initially thought I was an ENTp if you go and read some of my earliest threads here.

Now,

What I'm wondering here. Is how do you get into ENTp modes?

Do you have a specific way to go about it?

[Rocky]

^^ He's talking about using his 8th funciton. That's what makes Quasi-Identicals Quasi-Identicals... but they are not REALLY the same.

[Cone]

StevENTj, your original post here makes you no better than marcus the maniac, really.

Now that I've actually read his post, you are exactly right, Rocky.

[Waddlesworth]

A little too much talk of functions, I think. In my opinion he comes across as an ENXp.

I am saying this not because I am pretending to see functions in the place of behavior, such as "he uses but not alot of " that's just being silly doing all the function talk.

I think that he is particularly incompetent when it comes to making logical arguments and also that he appears to avoid participating in them. If you look at his type descriptions they also almost exclusively deal with ethics, that is, how things interact, which is basically what is all about, right?

I remember on his chart he listed Dual seeking as "Duel seeking"

I really don't see a logical type letting something like that slip so far. I just don't.

Now what makes him appear to possibly be ENTp is that he has this overwhelming need to be recognized and he works furiously at it, so it appears(but this could have to do with the inherent nature of how a mask manifests, although I really don't know). Otherwise I don't notice much in the ways of logic in anything he does. The most logical thing I can notice is that he can put together a web-page and an online test... but that isn't really very difficult to figure out.

So to conclude, if he is an ENTp he really doesn't do too much homework in his spare time. I'm not going to point fingers or anything, I'm really not trying to be an ass, either. Really though, just look at his type profiles or his models. there really isn't any logic there at all. I mean, he's a good writer and I'm sure a great guy, but an ENTp? eh, i don't know, never met him.

We all have all 8 functions and we all use each one. I guess some people might tend to struggle to use a weak one if they are having an identity crisis, right? maybe he is going through one of those. There is a little logic to his work, but it's dominated by ethics(the interaction of things).

But I never met him and I'm not an expert typologist being that I'm only 22 and have not really lived my life yet. Whatever he is I wish him the best.

[Angel von Himmel]

Well, I am not saying that there is not a possibility I am actually ENFp, but I seriously seriously doubt that I have an PoLR meerly on the account that I do not make much use of the function. And to be honest, I find most of the arguments people attempt to concoct against me being an ENTp and in favor of a diffrent type totally rediculous beyond unbelief, especially Rocky's argument. But, that could be because I know that people are just going by what I tell them or attempt to read whatever they want into what I write anyhow or micromanage the functions to death. That is no way to convince someone or have a discussion or debate at all, unless you like not being taken very seriously ... and I will not take some serious who acts that way.

However, to be honest I do see some possibilities that I could actually be some ethical type and I do agree with waddles that I do tend to express myself ethically at times. But, I have always attributed my highly ethical nature to my shitty childhood and defense mechanisms I built up from being under the influence of my super-ego for so long. In the case of an ENTp, the super-id equivalent for the PoLR means expressing , which I know I have done ... However, the only functions I have ever really caught myself using were all extroverted functions [] except for and I rarely catch myself using . I think there is a better liklihood that is actually my 8th or 3rd or 6th function and not my 4th; Having a PoLR really does not make much sense to me, I do not feel stupid and I do not talk incessantly or feel guilty when I am attempting to understand the thinking or logic of others. I just do not use the function very much is all.

And I do not really believe myself to be an introvert stricly according to actual Jung/Socionic definitions, I am more of an extrovert. My intertype relationships all point towards ENTp and barely towards another type.

An oddity I should point out is that the only people that I have had undeniable Identical relationships with were all female. With men who I had typed as male ENTps, I have not always felt the same way even though there were some similarities and some similar manifestations of behaviours. Although what really disturbs me as far as my type is that I have an undeniable indentical relationship with Joy as far as our thought processes go and life solutions, she has been saying some really really ENFp sounding things lately; that has made me wonder somewhat about my own type ...

But anyhow, I am still open to considering another type, just do not act like a bullheaded jackass about how I am typing myself and expect me to take you seriously, because I will not.

[Rocky]

But anyhow, I am still open to considering another type, just do not act like a bullheaded jackass about how I am typing myself and expect me to take you seriously, because I will not.

Jackass? You sound like you're in denial right now. I never acted like a jackass about this, I was trying to lay the facts out. I was even begging you to prove me wrong by desribing the personal workings of the Ne dominant function (twice), and you blew me off. How do you expect people to take you seriously now?

[Angel von Himmel]

But anyhow, I am still open to considering another type, just do not act like a bullheaded jackass about how I am typing myself and expect me to take you seriously, because I will not.

Jackass? You sound like you're in denial right now. I never acted like a jackass about this, I was trying to lay the facts out. I was even begging you to prove me wrong by desribing the personal workings of the Ne dominant function (twice), and you blew me off. How do you expect people to take you seriously now?

Because it is pointless to discuss anything with you, especially since you know alot less about me than you think you do and miromanage the functions along the way. You refuse to trust what I have given you as evidence and resort back to a personal description that not only contains a hugh amount of material that is not only unspecific to any type, I described myself as resorting to extreme usage of and some insitances of a lack of usage. I know why I wrote what I did and why, you do not necessarily. On top of that, you totally ignore obvious indications of the usage of by me and even attempt to argue that those usages are really or some other function. You also tend to use stereotypical definitions of introversion and extroversion which I totally disagree with and are not even true Jung/Socionic definitions.

Because of this, I can only assume that your arguments are completely and totally invalid and are of little use to me, and that is the honest truth.

[Rocky]

You also tend to use stereotypical definitions of introversion and extroversion which I totally disagree with and are not even true Jung/Socionic definitions.

You're the most stubborn, pig-headed, ass on this forum right now. All you have been doing was manipulating the facts ever since I have questioned your type. I even wrote a thread denying the MBTI definitions of E/I. You've seen it at least a couple times by now, so stop fucking around here. I'm going to leave your type alone to believe whatever it is you want to believe. One thing I'm sure of now is that it says a lot about your character when you always refuse to back up or defend your type, even though you are "Proudly ENTp".

/done, goodnight...

[Angel von Himmel]

Accusing rmcnew of doing what you were doing, Rocky? What a load of bullshit ...

[Rocky]

Accusing rmcnew of doing what you were doing, Rocky? What a load of bullshit ...

Screw you, "Anonymous"... nice to know that you have the balls to say you're name when you wrote that.

Look, I tried my best to listen to what he had to say, but he always refused to say anything about his type when I did ask. And I've never claimed that he believed in something that was not true, like he did with the E/I thing, for example. You don't know what was going through my mind... I absolutley HATE being close-minded or stubborn, despite McNew claiming that all SLIs are that way. That's just not true. He only cares about poor, Nazi-like stereotypes, it seems. The only thing McNew has been saying this whole time is that my opinions mean nothing, that he is just ignoring me, I'm a jackass, etc... In other words, he's only taking this personally. Actually, I've never said that he oculdn't be an ILE, but I wanted to hear something from him in defense, and when I said that, he claims that I am not to be taken seriously for questioning something. What a joke...

[discojoe]

One of my spies managed to snap this image of Rocky and marcus the maniac at a bar.

I wonder which is which?

[Rocky]

What do I have to do with marcus, anyway? I already claimed his way of typing people like McNew was wrong.

[marcus the maniac]

One of my spies managed to snap this image of Rocky and marcus the maniac at a bar.

I wonder which is which?

Ha! Funny how you get down on your knees and bow down in the other thread, and now you take a cheap shot at me here. The funniest thing is that the guy on top actually looks a lot like you. Keep me out of your gay fantasies kid.


What kind of "man" goes around looking for pics of two guys kissing anyways? It's disturbing that you have that pic/link saved to your computer. Little ******.

[Angel von Himmel]

Accusing rmcnew of doing what you were doing, Rocky? What a load of bullshit ...

Screw you, "Anonymous"... nice to know that you have the balls to say you're name when you wrote that.

Look, I tried my best to listen to what he had to say, but he always refused to say anything about his type when I did ask. And I've never claimed that he believed in something that was not true, like he did with the E/I thing, for example. You don't know what was going through my mind... I absolutley HATE being close-minded or stubborn, despite McNew claiming that all SLIs are that way. That's just not true. He only cares about poor, Nazi-like stereotypes, it seems. The only thing McNew has been saying this whole time is that my opinions mean nothing, that he is just ignoring me, I'm a jackass, etc... In other words, he's only taking this personally. Actually, I've never said that he oculdn't be an ILE, but I wanted to hear something from him in defense, and when I said that, he claims that I am not to be taken seriously for questioning something. What a joke...

Rocky, the problem is not that I have not given you evidence. I have given you plenty of evidence, but you either do not see it or are totally blind to it and it makes me feel like I am wasting my time. I am speculating that this has something to do with you seeking concrete examples and me seeking abstract ones, or you trying to make them concrete while I am trying to make them abstract. In any case, I see absolutly no point in discussing it with you anymore as we apparently can only look like total jackasses to each other in the way we process information. So, I think it is time this whole thing just stops, our attempts to communicate and work together are just fruitless.