Gamma Quadra Views on Other Quadras

[Blaze]

uh "rapes your Fi"? care to expand on this? example?

[liveandletlive]

ive read that before. im curious to know how other gammas perceive these quadras in reality. Like Khamelion, i guess im curious to see the expression of this in reality rather than just going by the theory off of some website...

Which was a section written by the consensus of Gammas, who would base it off of...Anyone? Anyone?

are you 100% sure of that? it seems to me like they looked at the functions of each quadra and said "oh they must interact like this then" looking at the functions of the other quadras...

It was Expat.

http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...hlight=quadras

still one person writing it vs. a consensus of gammas are two very different things... either way i like specificities (is that a word? well i just made it one lol) vs. these huge generalizations that are normally found on these sites.

[Khamelion]

uh "rapes your Fi"? care to expand on this? example?

I'm bad at producing real life examples on demand. It will usually have to do with him being unfair in judgment towards others. Probably the most common. Whenever it happens though, I usually fill up with some sort of sense of justice, seethe for a moment, and form a statement (sometimes delivered in a very hot, stern way) that will "put him in his place", in so many words. What I say is different depending on the situation. It doesn't always put him in his place. We usually debate over it for a while until I roll my eyes, or he gives in and changes his mind about being an ignorant fool.

Another one has to do with the subject of loyalty. It's almost as though he WANTS me to keep asking him if he loves me, or other validation along those lines. For example, I have the option of of moving to Delaware for a few months. I asked him how he'd take it if I did that, and he said we'd have to go our seperate ways, until I came back. He refuses any form of long distance relations, no matter how temporary. From MY standpoint, I don't know HOW he can feel this way. I couldn't fathom breaking up over something like that, throw out a relationship just because your phsycial needs will not be met for short time? What about the year and half of relationship that has been built up?!

One more I guess would be, recently he called for a job of some kind, but called too late. So he immediatly shut down and flopped back in bed. A few minutes later he starts telling me I need to go to Delaware, he is no good for me. Yadda yadda yadda! I just need to be away from him because he will only bring me down. He was very adament too. This sort of weakness offended me. WHY WOULD I LEAVE YOU BECAUSE A POSITION WAS FILLED BEFORE YOU CALLED?!?

Durrrrrrr It all worked out though, always does :wink: It just requires more patience and thought.

[BLauritson]

@BL: im surprised that you're interactions with alpha were rather positive especially as compared to beta which is supposed to be our next favorite quadra besides our own...i agree with 100% with delta

Yeah.. I've based this all on my individual experiences and I know that there's a lot of stuff outside of Socionics that can affect relations with people. I've had both good and bad experiences with people of all quadras to be honest, even Gamma (I always seem to have quite fickle relations with ISFjs for some reason.. well, it's not as bad as I'm making it sound, but if I'm going to conflict with a Gamma it's nearly always ISFj for some reason. Not to say I always conflict with them though, for the most part I get on fine with them. Might be something to do with the fact my mother's an ISFj). I think it's purely just experiences with specific Alpha and Beta types that made me write about them how I did.

[Blaze]

uh "rapes your Fi"? care to expand on this? example?

I'm bad at producing real life examples on demand. It will usually have to do with him being unfair in judgment towards others. Probably the most common. Whenever it happens though, I usually fill up with some sort of sense of justice, seethe for a moment, and form a statement (sometimes delivered in a very hot, stern way) that will "put him in his place", in so many words. What I say is different depending on the situation. It doesn't always put him in his place. We usually debate over it for a while until I roll my eyes, or he gives in and changes his mind about being an ignorant fool.

Another one has to do with the subject of loyalty. It's almost as though he WANTS me to keep asking him if he loves me, or other validation along those lines. For example, I have the option of of moving to Delaware for a few months. I asked him how he'd take it if I did that, and he said we'd have to go our seperate ways, until I came back. He refuses any form of long distance relations, no matter how temporary. From MY standpoint, I don't know HOW he can feel this way. I couldn't fathom breaking up over something like that, throw out a relationship just because your phsycial needs will not be met for short time? What about the year and half of relationship that has been built up?!

One more I guess would be, recently he called for a job of some kind, but called too late. So he immediatly shut down and flopped back in bed. A few minutes later he starts telling me I need to go to Delaware, he is no good for me. Yadda yadda yadda! I just need to be away from him because he will only bring me down. He was very adament too. This sort of weakness offended me. WHY WOULD I LEAVE YOU BECAUSE A POSITION WAS FILLED BEFORE YOU CALLED?!?

Durrrrrrr It all worked out though, always does :wink: It just requires more patience and thought.

first of all it is not "on demand" since i asked whether you cared to give an example, lol. but it's interesting that you see it as a demand. is this your strong Se? that you would mean this as a demand so you think that i do? that you are used to making demands so you think that others do? i don't usually make demands on other people...i try to motivate and persuade them.

but i see what you mean...you expect him to get that you would never leave him in the lurch but he kind of doesn't get that. he expects other people to act like he does, namely to want to break up if you move to Delaware.

wow he does seem to get kind of despondant or something, kind of easily too.

you see his disillusionment as weakness? huh that's interesting. they're just feelings really. but you are right here is the problem....your Se doesn't tolerate his Se role and nor does your Fi tolerate his Fi polr. what do you think he would say about your weak Ne/Ti?

i'm hearing that you always work it out...just warning you that if you think it's tiresome now, it will really suck the big one in about 5 years.

with my estp ex, we'd come to blows over Se/Ne. he basically thought that he was "bad at school." i'd be like don't sweat it just do it, i'll help you. or i'd get upset about workplace politics and power dynamics, he'd get frustrated with that and say, "just do this, they're all assholes anyway." but the thing is he really could not be intellectually confident or design cool stuff the way i did and i could not be a super-power and make people do stuff the way he did.

not saying that you 2 are like this or anything but just something to think about. Ne vs Se is a battleground over time. Fi vs Ti....ask any enfp how they feel about Ti. the way i feel about Fi is like thank God somebody's good at this, but it sure ain't me and BTW can you please help me fix this goof up i just did? lol

if you don't want to fix his goofs with other people, and honestly it doesn't sound like you do because you get irritated with him when it's you he's goofed on, then how you gonna run interference for him with others? you're not you're gonna be like, helloo??? why did you do that???

[Suomea]

uh "rapes your Fi"? care to expand on this? example?

I'm bad at producing real life examples on demand. It will usually have to do with him being unfair in judgment towards others. Probably the most common. Whenever it happens though, I usually fill up with some sort of sense of justice, seethe for a moment, and form a statement (sometimes delivered in a very hot, stern way) that will "put him in his place", in so many words. What I say is different depending on the situation. It doesn't always put him in his place. We usually debate over it for a while until I roll my eyes, or he gives in and changes his mind about being an ignorant fool. :lol:

Any specifics on this one?

[Khamelion]

uh "rapes your Fi"? care to expand on this? example?

I'm bad at producing real life examples on demand. It will usually have to do with him being unfair in judgment towards others. Probably the most common. Whenever it happens though, I usually fill up with some sort of sense of justice, seethe for a moment, and form a statement (sometimes delivered in a very hot, stern way) that will "put him in his place", in so many words. What I say is different depending on the situation. It doesn't always put him in his place. We usually debate over it for a while until I roll my eyes, or he gives in and changes his mind about being an ignorant fool.

Another one has to do with the subject of loyalty. It's almost as though he WANTS me to keep asking him if he loves me, or other validation along those lines. For example, I have the option of of moving to Delaware for a few months. I asked him how he'd take it if I did that, and he said we'd have to go our seperate ways, until I came back. He refuses any form of long distance relations, no matter how temporary. From MY standpoint, I don't know HOW he can feel this way. I couldn't fathom breaking up over something like that, throw out a relationship just because your phsycial needs will not be met for short time? What about the year and half of relationship that has been built up?!

One more I guess would be, recently he called for a job of some kind, but called too late. So he immediatly shut down and flopped back in bed. A few minutes later he starts telling me I need to go to Delaware, he is no good for me. Yadda yadda yadda! I just need to be away from him because he will only bring me down. He was very adament too. This sort of weakness offended me. WHY WOULD I LEAVE YOU BECAUSE A POSITION WAS FILLED BEFORE YOU CALLED?!?

Durrrrrrr It all worked out though, always does :wink: It just requires more patience and thought.

first of all it is not "on demand" since i asked whether you cared to give an example, lol.

but i see what you mean...you expect him to get that you would never leave him in the lurch but he kind of doesn't get that. he expects other people to act like he does, namely to want to break up if you move to Delaware.

wow he does seem to get kind of despondant or something, kind of easily too.

you see his disillusionment as weakness? huh that's interesting. they're just feelings really. but you are right here is the problem....your Se doesn't tolerate his Se role and nor does your Fi tolerate his Fi polr. what do you think he would say about your weak Ne/Ti?

i'm hearing that you always work it out...just warning you that if you think it's tiresome now, it will really suck the big one in about 5 years.

lol I wasn't using the word "demand" literally, on request I guess is a better word



And I kind of left out anything about this:

what do you think he would say about your weak Ne/Ti?

One example I can come up with off the top of my head is that he made this World of Warcraft character. He named it this long, odd name. I wanted him to just tell me how to pronounce it but he kept making me try. So I got the last few syllables right, but the first one I kept screwing up. He gradually got more and more angry, on the verge of calling me an idiot etc etc. He was frustrated because I kept pronouncing it the same way over and over and I couldnt get it. So he starts getting mean about and says, "Forget it, just call me later." He called me and the phone call had just started! I said that, and he says he is too annoyed by my stupidity on the matter. rofl! I finally get it, turns out it was "Legalize it" but written all funny.

It all ended in laughs, but how he dealt with it sucked =\

I think that was a Ti example?

And with Ne, usually this will come up (sorry can't find an example) but instead of letting it be rubbed in my face, I show complete disregard for it.





See the thing is when I'm talking about our relations around here, it usually only the negative that I speak of. We get along perfectly 90% of the time, and if we are not getting along it is usually because of money issues. And a couple other things sometimes.

And not to mention the fact that I very much love him, regardless of socionics type. It's ridiuclous to make a decision about keeping a man based on socionics. Yes we have our bumps, but it always turns out alright in the end. Once I've chosen my partner, only a few key things can cause me to get rid of them, and he hasn't done/fit any of my "key things". He keeps me excited, he matches my energy (when he isn't despondant about something), we share most of each others interests (exception being he is a bit reclusive), and we have fun.

Not to mention all the intimate details, mental and phsycial. He is very stimulating and makes for good arguments most of the time.

[crazedrat]

I was in a super-ego relationship like that once, intp-isfp relationship. A few things I noticed about it.. 1: the relationship is very easy to form; mostly because you don't feel like you're compromising yourself in any way... the super-ego is "OK" with what is happening, literally. 2: It created kind of a super-ego imperative like what you're describing.. by this I mean, commitment seemed to be strongly implied in the relationship. It was, kind of, a relationship of conscious commitment. I am skeptical I could of maintained this conscious commitment for an extended period of time; but it did offer some active resistance when I was attracted to an ESFp girl at the time. I found in myself a tendency toward the expression of the opposite of my real desire: I was mean to the girl, and told her I didn't like her.. when in fact, in my mind, I would of imagined a scenario where this superego girl would just go away, and I could of been with the ESFp girl.
All this was before I knew about typology.
Another characteristic of the superego relationship, was .. we were kind of, comfortable having sex; but in a way which avoided intimacy.
Really, it's like the super-ego is the king of the relationship in every sense of the word

[liveandletlive]

uh "rapes your Fi"? care to expand on this? example?

I'm bad at producing real life examples on demand. It will usually have to do with him being unfair in judgment towards others. Probably the most common. Whenever it happens though, I usually fill up with some sort of sense of justice, seethe for a moment, and form a statement (sometimes delivered in a very hot, stern way) that will "put him in his place", in so many words. What I say is different depending on the situation. It doesn't always put him in his place. We usually debate over it for a while until I roll my eyes, or he gives in and changes his mind about being an ignorant fool.

Another one has to do with the subject of loyalty. It's almost as though he WANTS me to keep asking him if he loves me, or other validation along those lines. For example, I have the option of of moving to Delaware for a few months. I asked him how he'd take it if I did that, and he said we'd have to go our seperate ways, until I came back. He refuses any form of long distance relations, no matter how temporary. From MY standpoint, I don't know HOW he can feel this way. I couldn't fathom breaking up over something like that, throw out a relationship just because your phsycial needs will not be met for short time? What about the year and half of relationship that has been built up?!

One more I guess would be, recently he called for a job of some kind, but called too late. So he immediatly shut down and flopped back in bed. A few minutes later he starts telling me I need to go to Delaware, he is no good for me. Yadda yadda yadda! I just need to be away from him because he will only bring me down. He was very adament too. This sort of weakness offended me. WHY WOULD I LEAVE YOU BECAUSE A POSITION WAS FILLED BEFORE YOU CALLED?!?

Durrrrrrr It all worked out though, always does :wink: It just requires more patience and thought.

ESTps and ENTps with their HA's can be so exhausting and annoying... my god do i have to confirm my feelings to you once again?!

[Khamelion]

ESTps and ENTps with their HA's can be so exhausting and annoying... my god do i have to confirm my feelings to you once again?!

I know right? It doesn't help when EIE and her icky comes along either *eye roll without the grin*

Another characteristic of the superego relationship, was .. we were kind of, comfortable having sex; but in a way which avoided intimacy.

We are pretty comfortable with being intimate, actually that seems to be what he wants from me most. Warm fuzzy -time, along with sensory stimulation.

Really, it's like the super-ego is the king of the relationship in every sense of the word

This doesn't make sense, explain ?

[crazedrat]

Yeah I mean, I found it very easy to be physically affectionate with the girl, simply because I didnt feel like my emotions were being disclosed.. or connected with, on any kind of real level. Everything felt "safe". It was a really sexual relationship. When affection was shown, it was superficially validated or recognized, it wasn't critiqued.. it just kind of dissapated without conflict.. but also, without forming a real connection or mutuality.
It was kind of like talking to a wall. You can say anything to the wall, the wall just keeps smiling back... but that's it. Yes, the wall happens to have a smiley face.
I can disclose anything to my special wall, and I feel a strong bond with it.. from the things I've told it, which no one else can hear.. because that would imply they would actually have to listen; listen, meaning fully comprehend.
It's almost like since the two don't touch eachother, they are safe to touch eachother.. if that makes sense.
Superego is king... meaning there is a high level of awareness of what you should be doing, or emphasis on .. making things work, awareness of what is and is not okay in terms of behavior and thoughts... or, when you are interacting with them, you get the feeling you are behaving well, like you are chewing with your mouth closed and your dad has just told you good job. And then there is the undercurrent of... the imperative to keep chewing with your mouth closed. And there is a system of reward, of affection or approval, which keeps this running.
It's the feeling you get off being a good note-taker on your first day of class.
This is my perception of my super-ego relationship, don't go all pissy on me.

[Khamelion]

don't go all pissy on me.

i wasn't, silly

[Suomea]

Yeah I mean, I found it very easy to be physically affectionate with the girl, simply because I didnt feel like my emotions were being disclosed.. or connected with, on any kind of real level. Everything felt "safe". It was a really sexual relationship. When affection was shown, it was superficially validated or recognized, it wasn't critiqued.. it just kind of dissapated without conflict.. but also, without forming a real connection or mutuality.
It was kind of like talking to a wall. You can say anything to the wall, the wall just keeps smiling back... but that's it. Yes, the wall happens to have a smiley face.
I can disclose anything to my special wall, and I feel a strong bond with it.. from the things I've told it, which no one else can hear.. because that would imply they would actually have to listen; listen, meaning fully comprehend.
It's almost like since the two don't touch eachother, they are safe to touch eachother.. if that makes sense.
Superego is king... meaning there is a high level of awareness of what you should be doing, or emphasis on .. making things work, awareness of what is and is not okay in terms of behavior and thoughts... or, when you are interacting with them, you get the feeling you are behaving well, like you are chewing with your mouth closed and your dad has just told you good job. And then there is the undercurrent of... the imperative to keep chewing with your mouth closed. And there is a system of reward, of affection or approval, which keeps this running.
It's the feeling you get off being a good note-taker on your first day of class.
This is my perception of my super-ego relationship, don't go all pissy on me.

Good analysis I think.

[FDG]

Another one has to do with the subject of loyalty. It's almost as though he WANTS me to keep asking him if he loves me, or other validation along those lines. For example, I have the option of of moving to Delaware for a few months. I asked him how he'd take it if I did that, and he said we'd have to go our seperate ways, until I came back. He refuses any form of long distance relations, no matter how temporary. From MY standpoint, I don't know HOW he can feel this way. I couldn't fathom breaking up over something like that, throw out a relationship just because your phsycial needs will not be met for short time? What about the year and half of relationship that has been built up?!

Personally, I agree with him, and it's not because of the sex. It's just that I feel physically bad not being able to spend time with my girlfriend if I know that she's my girlfriend. I wouldn't even consider to get back together thereafter probably, I don't believe in relations with break-ups inbetween. Oh, I don't even think in those months I would get a girlfriend.

But, in the same situation if I were really in love I'd probably move with the girl. If he doesn't have any kids, there is no reason why he shouldn't. Living under briges? Well, that only makes you stronger (if it doesn't kill you, lol).

Basically I'm a bit extremist on the long-distance relationship issue. Either I feel strongly about the relationship and thus I'm ready to go with the girl, or I don't and thus I break up forever. No matter how a girl reassures me, I'll never ever believe she will still be in love with me after 6 months of not ever seeing each other.

[Khamelion]

Well....he'd better believe I'd still love him. That's ridiculous.

I understand the whole physical thing, I'm an extremely physical person. But lack thereof does NOT mean my feelings go away.

He was invited to come, and I believe he would go with me, but has school starting in January that can't be transfered.

[Blaze]

Yeah I mean, I found it very easy to be physically affectionate with the girl, simply because I didnt feel like my emotions were being disclosed.. or connected with, on any kind of real level. Everything felt "safe". It was a really sexual relationship. When affection was shown, it was superficially validated or recognized, it wasn't critiqued.. it just kind of dissapated without conflict.. but also, without forming a real connection or mutuality.
It was kind of like talking to a wall. You can say anything to the wall, the wall just keeps smiling back... but that's it. Yes, the wall happens to have a smiley face.
I can disclose anything to my special wall, and I feel a strong bond with it.. from the things I've told it, which no one else can hear.. because that would imply they would actually have to listen; listen, meaning fully comprehend.
It's almost like since the two don't touch eachother, they are safe to touch eachother.. if that makes sense.
Superego is king... meaning there is a high level of awareness of what you should be doing, or emphasis on .. making things work, awareness of what is and is not okay in terms of behavior and thoughts... or, when you are interacting with them, you get the feeling you are behaving well, like you are chewing with your mouth closed and your dad has just told you good job. And then there is the undercurrent of... the imperative to keep chewing with your mouth closed. And there is a system of reward, of affection or approval, which keeps this running.
It's the feeling you get off being a good note-taker on your first day of class.
This is my perception of my super-ego relationship, don't go all pissy on me.

Good analysis I think.

yeah i agree with this too. which is ok for me in the short term, but i can't fucking relax in close quarters with this going on.

[Blaze]

khamelion: i think your example of Ti polr was good esp since it illustrates how Ti and Fi polr vibe each other as well. his frustration clearly from you not understanding his invention, so then with all the finesse of Fi polr gets you. right in the Ti polr.

i do know what you mean about only presenting the problems seen in the relationship when most of the time it's just fine...i've done this myself, here even.

i guess i just want to save everybody from a possible future divorce. not that i can realistically do this, but it makes me feel better if somebody else is able to benefit from what i've experienced. while me and my estp ex probably could have saved our marriage (if he would have kept his dick in his pants) we still weren't really getting what we needed from each other. no Fe for either of us. constant competition over Ne/Se. an overdose of logic. his gamma family and my delta family. 2 slightly different Fi polr's which annoyed the shit out of each other. with no Fe to help and extremely limited dual seeking, there you have it. a cauldron of Fi polr.

and me and estp were fine for years; about 10 years at least. got along really well and achieved a lot together. all i'm saying is that in the beginning, it's easy for things to get swept under the rug and therefore aren't resolved. then they fester there and get worse. you can run into a lot of stress too, when you are trying to raise a family. this can further exacerbate communication problems in a relationship.

so i guess if somebody is going to go ahead with a more difficult relation, it's at least good to have an awareness of how the stress points might play out over time and to openly discuss these things now so you can be in the habit of addressing issues as they come up. his Fi polr sounds like a problem. what i can tell you from my own experience is that it will come up again and again...so if you really are committed to this relationship, then, if it were me, i'd want to have thorough discussions about the issue of his temper etc. otherwise, i predict that you are going to feel more and more de-valued by his behavior, and become more and more resentful. then you will be the one to leave.

[Khamelion]

If that happens, then it will happen.


There is also the matter of emotional maturity, he is 21 and I am merely 19. We have a long ways to go.

if it were me, i'd want to have thorough discussions about the issue of his temper etc. otherwise, i predict that you are going to feel more and more de-valued by his behavior,

Chea

[Blaze]

ooookay then. good luck!

[Khamelion]

ooookay then. good luck!

What else am I supposed to say

[liveandletlive]

ooookay then. good luck!

What else am I supposed to say

wanna come to my bridal shower?

[Blaze]

ooookay then. good luck!

What else am I supposed to say

wanna come to my bridal shower?

lol.

[Khamelion]

oooooo, im looking forward to that

[crazedrat]

@BL: im surprised that you're interactions with alpha were rather positive especially as compared to beta which is supposed to be our next favorite quadra besides our own...i agree with 100% with delta

@crazed: i adore your alphas description... u don't seem bitter at all lol and i found your beta description shocking. That's crazy. All of the betas i know are pretty "normal" and usually good people (with the exception of the ST's of course haha)

I've noticed the NTs seem to like delta more, and the SFs seem to like beta more

[Warlord]

@BL: im surprised that you're interactions with alpha were rather positive especially as compared to beta which is supposed to be our next favorite quadra besides our own...i agree with 100% with delta

@crazed: i adore your alphas description... u don't seem bitter at all lol and i found your beta description shocking. That's crazy. All of the betas i know are pretty "normal" and usually good people (with the exception of the ST's of course haha)

I've noticed the NTs seem to like delta more, and the SFs seem to like beta more

That's probably because betas value and deltas . And since they are extraverted qualities those are the easiest to see in other people.