How can you tell when an SLE/ESTp likes you?

[misutii]

As I've always said, I can only have Te or Se as a leading function in my eyes, and I don't think it's Se.

Expat would say that there's a confliction of values if I think I am LSE, SLE, or LIE.

He would be right. Have you typed any people that you get along with? It's impossible that you'd have 3 types as duals and it's impossible that you're 3 types, unless you have multiple personality disorder. What type descriptions have you read that make you believe you're 3 separate types at once? Using the functions, alone, as a method of self-typing will likely lead to confusion until you've witnessed the different types and functions in action in life.

here's the erotic attitudes that herzy mentioned:
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Careful
- See other people in a caring but maybe arrogant way as if
they are somekind of "parent figure" and everyone else
needs their attention and help
- Interact as if they they are in control but not in aggressive way. This type always acts in a caring way and expect the partner to accept this care without rebellion
- Has an openly "patronizing" subtype and a subtype that applies "care" indirectly
- Hates signs of aggression in themself
- Has "I know what is best for you" attitude

Aggressor
- Sometimes is openly arrogant and aggressive and expects complete mental submittal from others
- Sometimes has a very victim like look and uses indirect means to control the partner. In the "heart" is as aggressive and control oriented as the openly aggressive version. Can turn openly aggressive if the "victim" refuses to submit to indirect
control.
- Hates signs of weakness in themself
- Has "I am in control" attitude

Victim
- Can project either a submissive or arrogant view of themselves - The openly submissive version never questions the partners control but expects the partner to "show the way" in all aspects of the relationship or interaction
- The arrogant version looks aggressive and always challenges people but the true meaning of this behaviour is to find an aggressor who is stronger than the victim themself. This type can never be "tamed" but the partner has to "apply force" at all times to keep the arrogant victim under control
- Hates signs of weakness in others
- Has "I want you to control me (if you can)" attitude

Infantile
- Can be openly childlike/dreamer/detached or more formal looking with an "inner child"
- Has lots of needs and can be selfish (like a child) and expects the partner to totally adapt to this behaviour
- Can be openly needy for loving and care
- On the other hand can be openly rebellious against care and need a lot of "right kind of" attention
- Doesn't want the partner to directly control but instead set loose "boundaries" and safe guards within which it is safe to play and have fun
- Hates signs of aggression or indifferency in others
- Has "I want you to be my friend and guardian angel" attitude

Careful:
~ ESTj – ESFj – ISTp – ISFp

Aggressor:
~ ESTp – ESFp – ISTj – ISFj

Victim:
~ ENTj – ENFj – INTp – INFp

Infantile
~ ENTp – ENFp – INTj – INFj

Good compatibility
Careful - Infantile
Aggressor - Victim
-> natural pairs

Some compatibility
Careful - Victim
-> somewhat satisfying for careful, not truly satisfying for victim

Bad compatibility
Careful - Aggressor
-> frustrating for the careful, insulting for the aggressor
Aggressor - Infantile
-> somewhat satisfying for the aggressor, scary for the infantile
Victim - Infantile
-> totally unsatisfying for each
All identical pairs
-> mixed success but bad in any case.

[Ezra]

As I've always said, I can only have Te or Se as a leading function in my eyes, and I don't think it's Se.

Expat would say that there's a confliction of values if I think I am LSE, SLE, or LIE.

He would be right. Have you typed any people that you get along with? It's impossible that you'd have 3 types as duals and it's impossible that you're 3 types, unless you have multiple personality disorder. What type descriptions have you read that make you believe you're 3 separate types at once? Using the functions, alone, as a method of self-typing will likely lead to confusion until you've witnessed the different types and functions in action in life.

My two best friends are LII and IEE. I get on well with both of them, and enjoy their company a lot. I wrote a bit about this in a thread a while ago. I clash with Se-dominants, but only when I actively push against them if they are pushing against their environment. I challenge them for fun, and they take it as a direct attack on their territory. It's pathetic. My nextdoor neighbour is a Se-dominant, and if we're in a group and an argument starts, he's good at maintaining the top spot. However, he's my running partner, and he's fun to be around. I enjoy just talking to him about politics, economics or anything else. There's another girl in one of my (perhaps ILE) mates' group (he despises groups, because he's pinned down, and has no freedom to associate with who he will), who I think is probably a Se-dominant, and I don't like her. Come to think of it, no one does. She's got an "I'm-better-than-you" air, and she's very elitist and exclusive. She likes to push certain people out of any given group. However, there's also a Se-dominant in my halls that no one really likes, but I do. I see the harmlessness, and the niceness of him. I think he's probably SEE. Arrogant as fuck, pretty damn insecure and conscious of his health and appearance. If anyone thought I took myself seriously, you ain't seen nothin' yet until him. The guy who lives across from me I think is an SEI. He's a nice guy, but his wishy-washy stoner attitude (he's not a stoner, he's an achiever - straight A kid, basically) annoys me quite a bit. He can sometimes have small bursts of critical judging of people, but these are really rare. He's generally easygoing with people. There's another guy who I've been trying to work out for ages. I go to the cinema with him to no end, but he can annoy me quite a bit. He always seems intent on scapegoating any one person in a group. Often it's me. I think he could easily be my supervisor. I think he could be SLI, but I don't know. He's very active, does a lot of work but procrastinates very easily, and has a super shitty diet. Something tells me that Si is most certainly in the Ego. I thought he may be SEI, but I don't know.

[Blaze]

Good compatibility
Careful - Infantile
Aggressor - Victim
-> natural pairs

Some compatibility
Careful - Victim
-> somewhat satisfying for careful, not truly satisfying for victim

Bad compatibility
Careful - Aggressor
-> frustrating for the careful, insulting for the aggressor
Aggressor - Infantile
-> somewhat satisfying for the aggressor, scary for the infantile
Victim - Infantile
-> totally unsatisfying for each
All identical pairs
-> mixed success but bad in any case.

this doesn't really bear out though. i've been in relationships with 3 victims and the eroticism has always been great. also it was good with an aggressor for many many years. long term sexuality in relationships takes some work no matter what the types involved. you've got to do things that keep it interesting and do the "language of love" mentioned in another thread...this is what's needed to keep the fires activated. also, careful feels kind of patronizing to me. my mom is a careful... and i'm like don't go out of your way, i'm ok. i don't really like it when she does too much.

[Blaze]

...

[zenbrat]

I think the Careful erotic attitude fits Ezra quite well. He has a paternal vibe about him that shows a protective, taken under wing sort of caring. I could see him being stern yet indulgent with a loved one (like an enneagram 1w2 might be). Always knowing what is best for them, edifying, guiding (reprimanding, correcting) but still being very forgiving of the areas that he sees "need work" in a partner. These little "irritants" might even amuse him, like how a wild child's antics might secretly amuse an outwardly stern father. A very devoted sort of guy - a "true blue" guardian of home and hearth. I think he even said he wanted to be a civil rights lawyer.

Also, an undisputed SLE on this forum said he identified most with Victim (which actually falls in line with the Ti description of adopting a "wait and see" attitude in erotic matters, which I have found to be very true).

Se LSE's are much softer. More personable - not at all rigid. Jokey, light, playful. Ezra has a stern demeanor (which still carries humor well) but is the exact opposite of every Se subtype SLE I know.

I think a bit of a crush might be blinding someone to the "conflict" here.

.

[Ezra]

I really need more experience in relationships, so I can come back to you with some facts and not just speculation. I've actually surprised myself recently with certain people i.e. I have shown a side of me which I did not know was me at all. What I do know is that in bed, I like to completely wrap myself around my partner, in a very protective fashion. If they say "I'm cold", I instinctively use my own body warmth and that around me to make them feel comfortable. And the more I feel for them, the more I help them. I also know that I feel pretty vulnerable if I 'take', or someone is on top of me. It's like they have power over me, and I don't like that. At the same time, I don't want them to feel like I'm oppressing them when I protect them with my body, because the kind of energy that runs inside me might outwardly make it seem that way. I can deal with people taking care of me, but it can be very, very irritating, in the way that "I can take care of myself"; "don't worry about me"; "if I need help I'll ask for it". But I will willingly give my other help, because deep within myself, it is my nature to do so.

[mustachio]

I also know that I feel pretty vulnerable if I 'take', or someone is on top of me. It's like they have power over me, and I don't like that.

so i'm guessing you don't like it up the pooper.

[Ezra]

The thought of it I despise. I could never surrender myself fully to someone. Never. I'd feel too bad.

[misutii]

I really need more experience in relationships, so I can come back to you with some facts and not just speculation.

hmm, ok let's see what I can dig up here.......
ok so you seem to be vacillating between ESTp and ESTj still, so in terms of what you'd admire in someone else, do either of these duality descriptions strike you as more attractive? I know they sort of overlap at points but certain things are repeated in both and stand out, i.e. in the first if you value in others you really appreciate it when they warn about something so that you don't go too far or trust someone you shouldn't - in other words warning you what not to do rather than what to do. If you value you appreciate it more when another takes a more active approach in aiding you in your decisions, someone who is able to distictly tell you what is right and what is wrong and helps you plan your schedule accordingly

--------------------------------------------------
2nd quadra: the irrational dual pair… ESTP x INFP
Sensory-logical extravertandintuitive-ethical introvert
© From: V.Meged, A.Ovcharov. Learn To Manage People Efficiently, 2000.

The Commander is decisive and purposeful, brave and full of initiative. He is capable of persevering a long time towards his goal, overcoming any difficulties at his way. He is not always capable of taming his emotions and outbursts of wrath, but can subordinate others to him and make them do what he wants. The Lyricist lacks such decisiveness; he admires strong people possessing leadership skills. He tries to be useful to them by giving cautionary advice.

The Lyricist foresees very well the negative outcome of certain actions of The Commander. He watches people's emotional reactions and then suggests to the Commander measures to influence them. Without such advice The Commander may act precipitately. The Commander possesses good organizational skills. He has a talent for planning actions, distributing duties and resources. The Commander at the same time lacks diplomacy. He will manipulate people like inanimate objects, not reckoning with their feelings and interests. Thus he turns people against him but he does not understand why. The Lyricist softens his authoritarianism, tuning him up to a warmer attitude. He advises to be diplomatic, calms him down, releases The Commander's irritability by jokes and compliments made at the right moment. At the same time he creates the atmosphere of politeness, being aristocratic, 'keeping aloof', regulates distance in communication, as soon as he feels the partner is ready to insult him. In this way The Lyricist avoids possible confrontation.

The Commander tends to doubt not only the good attitude of others towards him, but also noble motives of others. He rather notices people’s negative traits more than positive ones. Sometimes he is excessively suspicious, afraid of treason, and for this reason tends to surround himself by favorites whom he trusts. The Lyricist neutralizes The Commander's prejudice by his trustful and kind manner of communication, neutralizing his suspicions by assertions of his loyalty.
The Lyricist is capable of choosing a moment for sudden decisive actions, which discourages opponents, and this makes him useful to The Commander, who appreciates his original advice. The Lyricist attracts people and manipulates their feelings and relations. He looks forward and prepares for the future in advance. He finds necessary acquaintances and fulfillers for his projects. Unlike The Commander, he is optimistic and can inspire others with his optimism, especially his dual, who values interests in concrete affairs over all and so expects from others dirty tricks rather than assistance. It is for this reason he loses adherents and falls into depression caused by bad foreboding.

The Lyricist's shortcoming is his inclination to blame others considering them guilty of his own misfortunes. The Commander easily calms down his dual by threatening to punish the offenders and to restore justice. Sometimes he puts The Lyricist to shame, teaches him lessons of courage and endurance. Together with such a strong personality The Lyricist is ready to overcome everything, believing in success. He needs moral support, without which his vital tonus decreases. He needs, too, a support of an authoritative partner, who understands instructions and rules, possesses penetrative skills, realism and practical intelligence.
----------------------------------------------------------
vs.
-------------------------------------------------------
4th quadra: the rational dual pair… ESTJ x INFJ
Logical-sensory extravertandethical-intuitive introvert
© From: V.Meged, A.Ovcharov. Learn To Manage People Efficiently, 2000.

The Administrator is very hard working; he rationally spends his time and does not like getting distracted by extraneous talk. He is very practical and economical. He strives to be competent in business issues, accumulating necessary information on problems interesting to him. He tends to take on too many responsibilities. So he needs The Humanist, which can suggest, which actions are most promising. The Humanist willingly helps in this work, doing it diligently and qualitatively.
The Administrator does not tolerate inferior quality. He likes integrity and uprightness in relations. The Humanist, as a rule, is an exceptionally honest and conscientious partner. He willingly processes great quantities of information, draws general conclusions and schedules actions. The Administrator sees planning as a problem. On the one hand, he is sometimes too impatient, on the other – he may be distracted by outside matters, procrastinating on important issues and failing to fulfill them in due time. He accepts this fact very painfully. He needs an undemanding regulator, a provident and prescient partner.

The second bright trait of The Administrator is his ability to take care of his family's welfare. He strives for a high standard of living. He demands quality and possesses well-developed esthetic taste. He is a kind of gourmet, likes tasty and healthy meals; parties for his close friends or family members organized by him are distinguished by very high taste. The Humanist is very reserved in communication. He is devoted to his narrow but stable circle of friends. He possesses 'clever hands' and interest in various technologies, culinary and medical recipes. While The Administrator creates comfort on a whole, his dual perfects all the details.

The Humanist is very attentive towards people, which is not applicable to his dual who is interested more in results of work and communication rather than in the very process. For this reason The Administrator, who is usually reserved and polite, may give way to irritation and wrath, especially when people take his precious time. At such moments he loses the feeling of tactfulness, may become blunt. He needs an ever-reserved, diplomatic and peaceful partner by his side. The Humanist softens ethical mistakes of his dual, performs peacemaking activities. By his persuasions he softens harsh behavior of the Administrator, appeals to his inborn nobility, magnanimity and conscience. By doing this, he facilitates communication with others. This helps The Administrator to keep stable the circle of his business partners.
The Humanist also foresees well the outcome of undertakings and relations. By his advice he helps his improvident dual to avoid many mistakes, the main of which is wishful thinking, especially about health and relations with people. He recognizes well the perspectives of new theories or technologies and he is among the first to struggle for their implementation.
The Administrator is conservative enough in his views, and without such support he tends to fall into routine, may even stop in his development, stagnate in everyday chores, or lose his spirituality, romantic feelings and interest towards intellectual novelties.

On the other hand, The Administrator is capable of thinking clearly and logically, of noticing what’s most important, of modernizing inefficient, outdated structures or technologies. He strives for higher quality and better outcome. The Humanist needs such a partner, who switches his attention from trivialities to more global undertakings. In addition, his dual attracts him as a protector and leader.
The Humanist is a very softhearted and sensitive person. His kindness if often misused by the others. By contrast, The Administrator is full of initiative, but does not like when others impose their own initiatives on him. He may show aggression, but hardly perceives aggression of the others. The Humanist, in spite of his indecisiveness, defends his own interests silently but impertinently, if he is sure of his being right. In practical affairs he is not very capable of protecting his interests, letting his more penetrative dual do it. He tolerates The Administrator's inability to praise, make compliments, which is caused by his insufficient understanding of individual traits and human potential capabilities. The Humanist understands this aspect and considers it to be so obvious that he does not require words of approval. He likes the integrity and hard work of his short-spoken dual.
This dual pair is characterized with certain reticence, isolation from other people, hard work, and attention to details and integrity in everything.

[Ezra]

The thing is, I think most of the LSE descriptions are foreign to me. I'd be lying if I said I work hard, and I need a partner to help me to decide on a course of action and that kind of thing. I don't work hard, and although I want to, and I set myself goals and stuff, it isn't the way I'd like to spend the last fourty years or whatever of my life.

Basically, I really do fuck all. I have to force myself to work hard. If I'm not working, I don't work effectively. I'm either on or off. I'm either at it for hours, or slacking off.

[Ezra]

Several years? She's about 45. I'm 18.

I didn't drool over her. All I said was that she was good looking, and very good looking for someone her age.

Garmonbozia is hot. I am very much attracted to her. But I didn't drool over her either. I don't drool over women. I don't drool.

[Ezra]

but discoejoe said you're a mouth-breather.

discojoe has an inferiority complex, and a great deal many more problems with his life, defined by the 'little man' complex.

[Ezra]

IIRC discojoe is pretty tall and buff and could probably kick your ass.

No, I've seen a picture. He's skinny and is as tall as Joy, who isn't tall. Besides, I couldn't give a shit about what he could do to me. That doesn't concern me. If he or you have wild fantasies about beating me into the dirt, fantasise on. It's not my fault you're wrapped up in his image.

oh you're talking about the "other" little man complex, now are you?

What?

but that is probably a bad thing to bring up right after discussing your mouth-breathing, you know?

What?

[Expat]

No, I've seen a picture. He's skinny and is as tall as Joy, who isn't tall

Then the picture gave a wrong impression -- he's well over 6 ft, and much, much taller than Joy.

[Ezra]

It's okay, I just get tired of these little digs that the cock sucker takes at me all the time. I don't understand what he has against me.

Oh wait; I've got it. He's my Supervisor. Of course.

Muuuutherfuuuuckerrr.

[discojoe]

It's okay, I just get tired of these little digs that the cock sucker takes at me all the time. I don't understand what he has against me.

Oh wait; I've got it. He's my Supervisor. Of course.

Muuuutherfuuuuckerrr.

I'm jus messin with ya gangsta. BTW, in the months since any pics of me have been taken I've been working out and have considerably more muscle on me than I did in the pics. lole

[Ezra]

It's okay, I just get tired of these little digs that the cock sucker takes at me all the time. I don't understand what he has against me.

Oh wait; I've got it. He's my Supervisor. Of course.

Muuuutherfuuuuckerrr.

I'm jus messin with ya gangsta. BTW, in the months since any pics of me have been taken I've been working out and have considerably more muscle on me than I did in the pics. lole

Hahaha.

Seriously, I don't really have a problem with you. I actually think you're pretty hilarious. You've a good sense of humour and you're quick-witted. You think up stuff like "If you believe in Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it put this as your signature" quicker than I can.