SLEs-ESTps very mindful of physical dangers

[Jarno]

At my work there are 3 ESTP's. All of them ofcourse very powerfull personality's. Who make fun of everyone and with everyone all day long.

But when we went on a trip to do some climbing and abseiling, all three of them were scared to death.
One of them even refused to participate. Fear of hights was their main reason I think.

I find this a big contradiction. Se is supposed to make them fearless, but at the same time it seems to give them fear too.
Anyone else has this experience or noticed this?

[mustachio]

you must confuse SLE with Superman.

[Jarno]

you must confuse SLE with Superman.

haha, yes.

Stil it's strange that their bravery isn't always there.

[zenbrat]

SLE is aggressively self-protective; not reckless. The 'fearless' factor presents itself in situations requiring defense of their ideals and self-interests.

[Jarno]

yes that's a clear description.

[implied]

SLE is aggressively self-protective; not reckless. The 'fearless' factor presents itself in situations requiring defense of their ideals and self-interests.

that sounds accurate. i've dealt closely with an SLE lady lately and i think i make her nervous about her self-interests, though. she acts too kiss-assery with me or something, though. i find the bit on the socionics.com profile about "willing to take great risks but not without good reason" to be pretty accurate in describing their personalities. they're all pretty slick in this regard.

[Ezra]

They're either not SLEs, or SLEs differ hugely.

I despise roller coasters, bungie jumping and skydiving i.e. all the stuff that traditionally gives you a rush. I don't like them. They don't give me a rush, they just make me feel out of control and like shit. But climbing and abseiling? They're just brilliant. That's about danger, not the rush. And SLEs should typically thrive off it. Are you sure they're SLEs?

[XoX]

It has been claimed that Se is more about seeking social dominance than being brave. E.g. ISTps seem much more "brave" to me as they tend to just ignore dangers or even seek them. Especially dangers related to nature e.g. being in high places or chasing storms or getting close to dangerous animals etc.

[Jarno]

They're either not SLEs, or SLEs differ hugely.

I despise roller coasters, bungie jumping and skydiving i.e. all the stuff that traditionally gives you a rush. I don't like them. They don't give me a rush, they just make me feel out of control and like shit. But climbing and abseiling? They're just brilliant. That's about danger, not the rush. And SLEs should typically thrive off it. Are you sure they're SLEs?

It were the more dangerous elements. also hanging from a cable with wheel downhill. (tockelen?)

[Jarno]

It has been claimed that Se is more about seeking social dominance than being brave. E.g. ISTps seem much more "brave" to me as they tend to just ignore dangers or even seek them. Especially dangers related to nature e.g. being in high places or chasing storms or getting close to dangerous animals etc.

yep. and to add: burglary.

[ladyinred]

SLE is aggressively self-protective; not reckless. The 'fearless' factor presents itself in situations requiring defense of their ideals and self-interests.

any other descriptions of this? i know SLEs tend to not take emotional risks, but the ones i know seem ok with physical ones

[Airman]

I guess it depends on their E-type. E8 ESTPs can be very brave in an even dumb sense, of getting into fights they know they will lose and get kicked out, etc. E6 ESTP when counterphobic can be like that too, even more reckless. But if you take other E-types, they won´t be like these. E3 ESTP will not risk like these, neither E7, nor E9, which I've seen are possible E-types for ESTP.

[ashlesha]

e9 ESTp?

[Airman]

e9 ESTp?

Yes, usually a 9w8... Ronaldo the football player is an example I met him personally and he´s an E9w8 ESTP. E9 is very strong, if it has an 8 wing, it can be ESTP. But of course if your understanding of socionics is only theoretical, or if you don´t know many 9w8s, this might seem improbable.

[Sir Knight]

My SLE friend is exactly like how you describe. Not at all afraid to get into fights or get in a shouting match with someone. Total confidence in interpersonal relationships.

I'm trying to get a job as an Orderly. When he asked me what I would do, I told him that I would be cleaning guts and brains and blood and shit off the floors of hospital operating rooms after major surgeries. That description alone was enough to make him go pale. He can't even handle illustrated depictions of gore. And he cries during sad movies.

Might be that Se's "External Statics of Objects" gives one a really stark, no bullshit picture about the current situation. Looking down the steep cliff you're about to abseil down might give a Se type that concrete feeling of "Jesus Christ that's a long way down." They wouldn't be able to relativize it away like a Ni type could, that distance would be completely and utterly real to them.

But that's just all idle theorizing. Suffice to say that they're incredibly brave in social situations.

[Shazaam]

Well type issues aside, people who can't admit weaknesses/fears in themselves, and instead have to act 'macho' all the time and make fun of people, are clearly compensating are they not?

True power is admitting you are afraid when you are afraid. It's not about bullying a weaker person to hide your own insecurities. True strength is realizing you have a weakness. True power is crying, and being a fag. Sometimes, at least.

Everybody wants to be strong. But no matter how strong you get, there will always be things that can kill you/wear you down. You will always have fears. If you didn't have fears then you would just be reckless lol.

[1981slater]

At my work there are 3 ESTP's. All of them ofcourse very powerfull personality's. Who make fun of everyone and with everyone all day long.

Bullies tend to harass others, but that's because they hate themselves, and harm others out of envy.

But when we went on a trip to do some climbing and abseiling, all three of them were scared to death.
One of them even refused to participate. Fear of hights was their main reason I think.

I find this a big contradiction. Se is supposed to make them fearless, but at the same time it seems to give them fear too.
Anyone else has this experience or noticed this?

That's not necessary "bad". I don't like to get involved in extreme sports, and everybody knows that. I always say:"Why does that guy beat the world record in breaking bricks with his forehead? He'd better do something pleasant".

[1981slater]

Well type issues aside, people who can't admit weaknesses/fears in themselves, and instead have to act 'macho' all the time and make fun of people, are clearly compensating are they not?

True power is admitting you are afraid when you are afraid. It's not about bullying a weaker person to hide your own insecurities. True strength is realizing you have a weakness. True power is crying, and being a fag. Sometimes, at least.

Everybody wants to be strong. But no matter how strong you get, there will always be things that can kill you/wear you down. You will always have fears. If you didn't have fears then you would just be reckless lol.

You should use your own post as lyrics, record a video of yourself singing and post it in the youtube. "Everybody wants to be strong" sounds as the Leonard Cohen "Everybody knows" to me.

Wait, IEI are called lyricists.

[golden]

My SLE friend is exactly like how you describe. Not at all afraid to get into fights or get in a shouting match with someone. Total confidence in interpersonal relationships.

I'm trying to get a job as an Orderly. When he asked me what I would do, I told him that I would be cleaning guts and brains and blood and shit off the floors of hospital operating rooms after major surgeries. That description alone was enough to make him go pale. He can't even handle illustrated depictions of gore. And he cries during sad movies.

Might be that Se's "External Statics of Objects" gives one a really stark, no bullshit picture about the current situation. Looking down the steep cliff you're about to abseil down might give a Se type that concrete feeling of "Jesus Christ that's a long way down." They wouldn't be able to relativize it away like a Ni type could, that distance would be completely and utterly real to them.

But that's just all idle theorizing. Suffice to say that they're incredibly brave in social situations.

I agree with a lot of points made in this thread, including None's suggestion that E type must come into play here. And I particularly like the paragraph above about Se's "External Statics of Objects." The guy I'm seeing (let's say he's SLE--I'm like 90 percent sure) can be very, very assertive--in particular, although he knows how to be polite, most of his behavior is geared toward him getting his way and having his standards met.

He takes a lot of risks ... in the life-choices sense ... and in everyday interactions he gets a buzz from being inappropriate, I think. I've also seen him aggressively drive his car in ways I would never, never, never!--and it's always because of someone encroaching on his space on the road. But we've discussed thrill-seeking, and he has literally said that he would not parachute from an airplane or bungee jump. I tend to agree it's because his perception is so concrete and focused on the present.

By contrast, I would parachute or bungee jump, because I can imagine myself safe and sound afterward and I could make an experience like that feel very dreamlike to myself, thus I'd feel safe. Yet in everyday life I am much more timid, and my life choices may look risky to some people, but I tend to make them passively, or they simply arise because I'm chaotic, or, more often, they come about because of various emotional and relationship entanglements.

Anyway ...

[Sir Knight]

Sky-diving's a hell of a lot of fun. The wind rushes past you so fast you don't even get the sensation of falling. It's cold though. If you do it, I'd recommend dressing warm!

BnD's post

Oh. Well, alright. I'm so scared of rejection that I don't have many friends and may never find true intimacy with other people. And I fear that if I really do drop out this semester then I'm never going to amount to anything in life and that I'm going to have to struggle even to put bread on my table.

...I don't really feel any more powerful admitting to that, though.

[JWC3]

Snakes are my biggest fear and I handle them evey chance I get. I really hate letting my fast win so I confront it whenever possible. So it knows who's boss (ME!)

And to every one making blanket statements about SLEs or Se so far; I don't think the world as black and white as all that.

Edit: Also, public speaking. Scares the hell outta me. I get anxious just raising my hand in class.

[golden]

Snakes are my biggest fear and I handle them evey chance I get. I really hate letting my fast win so I confront it whenever possible. So it knows who's boss (ME!)

And to every one making blanket statements about SLEs or Se so far; I don't think the world as black and white as all that.

Edit: Also, public speaking. Scares the hell outta me. I get anxious just raising my hand in class.

Heh, I also dread snakes but don't handle them ever. I am willing to, though, and in the past I wasn't.

I hope I wasn't making blanket statements about SLEs and Se. I try to stick with individual examples, because so far it's very hard for me to generalize about any type, including SLEs. I also think that the Socionics descriptions paint SLEs as some kind of uber-tough superpeople, which is ridiculous.

[Creepy-Snaps]

Lots of very good points in this thread.

As others have noted about SLEs, I tend to be very confident in interpersonal relationships, leading, getting into fights if I need to, or competing against other people for fun, taking on challenges. And I also love public speaking, taking charge in front of an audience, which some people, well a lot of people seem to fear.

I, however, am very risk-averse. I don't like taking unnecessary risks. I like working hard for what I get. The challenge.

I'm not a big fan of rollercoasters anymore, or anything that's adrenaline-junkie like. I'm mortally scared of the idea of bungie-jumping or skydiving. Haven't tried rock-climbing or abseiling yet, but they do seem safer than purposefully going for the "rush" of falling...

Life should be about control and hard work. Nothing taking for granted, no shortcuts.

More specifically, I think maybe Se gives us the ability to see how power shifts... for example, in bungie-jumping, the power shifts out of my control, to that of the chord... or the reliability of the parachute in sky-diving. Or in rock-climbing or abseiling, have an "accidental" slip caused from a wet surface or something, or any kind of risk, cause you to fall, when you can't do anything about it.

And basically, I just don't like having the power shift out of my control.

My IEI girlfriend, on the other hand... loves the idea of bungie-jumping, skydiving, etc., the "rush"... seems generally easier for IEIs to give up control to someone/something else. (That's probably why SLE-IEI works, cause they're willing to submit to some degree)

She wants to get me to do it with her... HELP! And I am mortally afraid of it lol.

[silke]

My IEI girlfriend, on the other hand... loves the idea of bungie-jumping, skydiving, etc., the "rush"... seems generally easier for IEIs to give up control to someone/something else. (That's probably why SLE-IEI works, cause they're willing to submit to some degree)

She wants to get me to do it with her... HELP! And I am mortally afraid of it lol.

Hmm, you might be an ILE, they are kind of similar to ESTPs only they orient by Si so they prefer more assuredness in physical sense (as can be the ESTPs in the original post if OP mis-typed them). I used to drag my ILE boyfriend out to skiing up to black diamond slopes sometimes and he would be so afraid of it. He was the intuitive subtype of ILE high on Ne and Fe and very low of Si so physically he was rather clumsy and sometimes wouldn't make it down those slope without falling about a dozen times. I tried to persuade him to go to rollercoaster parks with me but he bulked, so was a no go. Of course I didn't know anything about jungian functions back then or I wouldn't have tortured the poor guy. I just thought everybody enjoys such things in a while but for him it probably felt very threatening with his super-inferior Se being hit.

[Creepy-Snaps]

Hmm, you might be an ILE, they are kind of similar to ESTPs only they orient by Si so they prefer more assuredness in physical sense (as can be the ESTPs in the original post if OP mis-typed them). I used to drag my ILE boyfriend out to skiing up to black diamond slopes sometimes and he would be so afraid of it. He was the intuitive subtype of ILE high on Ne and Fe and very low of Si so physically he was rather clumsy and sometimes wouldn't make it down those slope without falling about a dozen times. I tried to persuade him to go to rollercoaster parks with me but he bulked, so was a no go. Of course I didn't know anything about jungian functions back then or I wouldn't have tortured the poor guy. I just thought everybody enjoys such things in a while but for him it probably felt very threatening with his super-inferior Se being hit.

I am not clumsy. So no.

And I love to go skiing. Skiing=very low risk of death, if you're good, everything in your power. Bungee-jumping, skydiving= even if you're experienced, nothing in your power.

I think you jumped to the wrong conclusion.

EDIT: I said I'm not a big fan of rollercoasters anymore, but I wouldn't "bulk" out of going if it were with friends. Or someone I liked. I'd gladly do that, but not jump out of a plane.

[Sir Knight]

Hell, sky-diving's great fun. The wind presses against you so hard that you don't even have the sensation of falling. That and they always strap you to an instructor your first time out, so your only responsibility is to get in position and not break your legs when you land.

[Sir Knight]

Also not shit my pants.

Thanks for that though, makes me feel much better about having to go skydiving sometime in the near future. There's no getting out of anything when an SLE really wants you to it...

Hell I was thinking about hurling while we were on the ground waiting to get into the plane. Fear-nausea is a powerful thing. The second we were in the air and strapping in, though, I was absolutely equanimous. Ask them to do a "gainer" when they hop out. It's where you do a backwards backflip out of the plane.