Weak Ni?

[Slacker]

Is this an example of weak Ni in my ISTp husband?

He had this project he had to do this morning, and he just started up with doing step F without realizing he really should do A, B, C, D, and E first. And then when he realized he'd done things out of order, he came inside all irate and upset and said, "This is so fucking annoying! I can't do this until I do that, and I can't do this until I do that. I hate that!"

He didn't end up having to do everything over - just a little bit, but he wanted me to stay out there with him for no other apparent reason than to make sure he did everything that had to be done.

[Creepy-bg]

lol but if it was a car engine or the breaks or something do you think he'd have a problem following the proper steps?

[Slacker]

lol but if it was a car engine or the breaks or something do you think he'd have a problem following the proper steps?

You know he will sometimes start cursing out there when doing engine work or another project like that and I'll go to find out what hte problem is and he'll say, "I forgot to do . . ." He gets very irate when he does that. But you're right - he's done engine work and what-not so much he's able to do it without thinking about that I guess. In this case he had to ship something and he had to make a crate and the crate was huge and he made it too big to go on the back of the truck so he had to put it on the car trailer but there was a car on the car trailer so he had to take the car off of the car trailer but the car on the trailer isn't his and he didn't have the keys he didn't think . . . etc. It was something different than what he usually does.

[Joy]

Yes. Not seeing/understanding/caring about the wisest (or even necessary) order and timing in which to do things is related to Si in the super ego block. Part of Ni is understanding how events are interconnected to each other and the relationship between those (and other) events and time.

[Slacker]

Yeah. He said, "I just want to back up the fucking truck and go! I don't want to deal with this shit!" And I put his bad language in there because he doesn't usually talk like that (well anymore - since we had a kid). This is the kind of scenario where he'll start swearing like crazy.

[jessica129]

Anything that requires me to follow directions and "guidelines", watch out. Every cuss word imagineable starts flying. I imagine it's quite funny to those watching.

[Joy]

It's not a matter of following directions. It's a matter of knowing that step A comes before step B which comes before step C, etc.

[jessica129]

What idiot doesn't know that?

[Creepy-bg]

What idiot doesn't know that?

illiterates?

[Joy]

What idiot doesn't know that?

LOL

90% of the people I've ever known (I don't think they'd relate to that description though lol)

[Creepy-bg]

What idiot doesn't know that?

LOL

90% of the people I've ever known (I don't think they'd relate to that description though lol)

you have to be exagerating... there's no way you could know that many stupid people

[Joy]

The stuff I'm talking about apparently just occur to most people though, even intelligent people.

[Creepy-bg]

come on though... not knowing that step A comes first, then B, then C? I mean I can see not following them, or just jumping in willy nilly.... thinking the steps are stupid... but not knowing that they're meant to be done in that order? that's like retarded. it's like not knowing that 1 is before 2 or that the sky is up and the ground is down.

[Slacker]

It's more like he gets focused on the main issue (getting this thing crated up and getting it to the shipping company) that he works on building a crate and everything and that's completely where his focus is - on his project. But then he finds that there's a lot more to his project than just building a crate and getting it to the shipping company. He has to get a trailer ready to get it to the shipping company and get that all ready and that involves several other steps. He gets so focused on the here-and-now that he has trouble stepping back and looking at the whole process. It's not that he's unable to think of the steps - just he doesn't focus on that. He focuses on his specific project.

[FDG]

Look at vortex thinking...

[Joy]

There are a lot of things that are easily overlooked, and a lot of the time it doesn't cause any major problems (though sometimes it does, obviously), but it's a lot more efficient, effective, and takes a lot less effort to do things if you can think of all of the different steps involved and the order in which they should be done.

There's a drawback though, of course... thinking about all of the steps and best order in which to do things instead of just focusing on the here and now and what can be done right now makes projects seem like a lot more effort and leads to procrastination. That's why Ni needs Se (and why Se needs Ni).

[aka-kitsune]

Yes. Not seeing/understanding/caring about the wisest (or even necessary) order and timing in which to do things is related to Si in the super ego block. Part of Ni is understanding how events are interconnected to each other and the relationship between those (and other) events and time.

Would the following be related in showing functional differences?

I once put together a audio/video cabinet with a presumed ESTp. He carefully laid out all the bits, each in their respective little piles, and opened the instructions, proceeding to carefully follow 1->2->3->4, etc. I scanned the instructions briefly, then set about deciding quickly which steps could be done separately from each other, to speed up the process. Since there were two of us, I thought, in-between steps could be preassembled to add efficiency. My friend didn't take kindly to my ergonomics. He fussily insisted we follow every instruction, in order, to the letter. (Although I cheated a bit when he wasn't looking).

I suppose that might be functions operating, although he simply have been been a touch OCP. :wink:

[Creepy-bg]

There are a lot of things that are easily overlooked, and a lot of the time it doesn't cause any major problems (though sometimes it does, obviously), but it's a lot more efficient, effective, and takes a lot less effort to do things if you can think of all of the different steps involved and the order in which they should be done.

There's a drawback though, of course... thinking about all of the steps and best order in which to do things instead of just focusing on the here and now and what can be done right now makes projects seem like a lot more effort and leads to procrastination. That's why Ni needs Se (and why Se needs Ni).

whatever... I can do both easily and effectively.

Bionicgoat - 1
Socionics - 0

[Joy]

There are a lot of things that are easily overlooked, and a lot of the time it doesn't cause any major problems (though sometimes it does, obviously), but it's a lot more efficient, effective, and takes a lot less effort to do things if you can think of all of the different steps involved and the order in which they should be done.

There's a drawback though, of course... thinking about all of the steps and best order in which to do things instead of just focusing on the here and now and what can be done right now makes projects seem like a lot more effort and leads to procrastination. That's why Ni needs Se (and why Se needs Ni).

whatever... I can do both easily and effectively.

Bionicgoat - 1
Socionics - 0

How often do you undertake large projects?

Yes. Not seeing/understanding/caring about the wisest (or even necessary) order and timing in which to do things is related to Si in the super ego block. Part of Ni is understanding how events are interconnected to each other and the relationship between those (and other) events and time.

Would the following be related in showing functional differences?

I once put together a audio/video cabinet with a presumed ESTp. He carefully laid out all the bits, each in their respective little piles, and opened the instructions, proceeding to carefully follow 1->2->3->4, etc. I scanned the instructions briefly, then set about deciding quickly which steps could be done separately from each other, to speed up the process. Since there were two of us, I thought, in-between steps could be preassembled to add efficiency. My friend didn't take kindly to my ergonomics. He fussily insisted we follow every instruction, in order, to the letter. (Although I cheated a bit when he wasn't looking).

I suppose that might be functions operating, although he simply have been been a touch OCP. :wink:

Aside from the possibility of him having OCD, I would think that an ESTp would be less likely to want to follow the directions to the letter like that?

But yes, your example does sound like an example of Ni.

I've got a description about this Ni/Se thing around here somewhere... I'll see if I can find it.

[Creepy-bg]

There are a lot of things that are easily overlooked, and a lot of the time it doesn't cause any major problems (though sometimes it does, obviously), but it's a lot more efficient, effective, and takes a lot less effort to do things if you can think of all of the different steps involved and the order in which they should be done.

There's a drawback though, of course... thinking about all of the steps and best order in which to do things instead of just focusing on the here and now and what can be done right now makes projects seem like a lot more effort and leads to procrastination. That's why Ni needs Se (and why Se needs Ni).

whatever... I can do both easily and effectively.

Bionicgoat - 1
Socionics - 0

How often do you undertake large projects?

well, when I was working, constantly... usually many at a time in fact, both managerial wise (directing others) and doing myself. large and small projects both. Step by step and off the cuff. Following corporate handed down processes and coming up with my own... I guess I'm just multitalented

[Joy]

I've got a description about this Ni/Se thing around here somewhere... I'll see if I can find it.

Se types see things as done or not done. If they think something needs to be done and it's not, they just do it. They don't think about it too much or build it up in their heads. Stratiyevskaya's description of ESFps mentions that they often wonder why people make stuff out to be difficult when they're actually easy. They recognize that others make things harder than they have to be. Whether Se types realize it or not, the reason why it's easy for them to do things is because regardless of how much effort or time it will require to accomplish something, it can only be as difficult as they believe it to be.

Ni types see processes. They think about each step involved in doing the task, from trying to decide if they should do it to walking about from it when it's completed. They also have a good sense of when it needs to be started in order to finish it at the optimum time, so they often put things off until they actually need to be done. Although it comes naturally to them to juggle many approaching tasks and events in their minds, the thought processes involved in doing so makes them sort of build stuff up in their minds until it seems like a large, complex project. Seeing all of the steps play out at the same time in their minds makes them focus on the amount of effort that will be required, which makes it seem like more effort than it would to a Se type, who understands that there are different actions required to complete a project but just takes it one step at a time.

[Joy]

Following corporate handed down processes

That's something I would have a hard time with, especially when the directions don't make sense (which is generally to be expected in any large corporation/company with many different departments and multiple levels of management ).

[Creepy-bg]

Following corporate handed down processes

That's something I would have a hard time with, especially when the directions don't make sense (which is generally to be expected in any large corporation/company with many different departments and multiple levels of management ).

fuck it... it's just a job. If they want to pay you to do something that seems stupid, and not give you the leeway to improve the process, let them. The money you get for it works as good as any other. That's always been my philosophy.

Also it's kind of fun figuring out how to make what they give work... how and where you can improve upon/add to it and stay within the lines. My department/techniques were frequently used as the model others were supposed to strive towards. I made the shitty corporate processes work for me and thrived.

[Kristiina]

It's more like he gets focused on the main issue (getting this thing crated up and getting it to the shipping company) that he works on building a crate and everything and that's completely where his focus is - on his project. But then he finds that there's a lot more to his project than just building a crate and getting it to the shipping company. He has to get a trailer ready to get it to the shipping company and get that all ready and that involves several other steps. He gets so focused on the here-and-now that he has trouble stepping back and looking at the whole process. It's not that he's unable to think of the steps - just he doesn't focus on that. He focuses on his specific project.

wow, that makes sense to me on so many levels! I have a problem with the exact opposite. Imagine the same project in my hands. 10 minutes after starting the project I'll get all worried with panic, "But...but... I don't know who to call at the shipping company!!!". I'll tell myself to relax and deal with it later, but then I realize that I don't have the right size nails to build the crate and I don't know where to get them and I'm worried again. If I just started building the crate, I'd get much more done and I'd worry a lot less.