Differentiating type/subtype -- A case study ESF-

[aka-kitsune]

I'm trying to type someone I know -- but I'm stuck with some inconsistencies. Been able to narrow him down to two likely types. So, how would one go about differentiating an ESFj (leading with ) from an ESFp-Fe ??? What would constitute a few key differences?

By quadra, he seems more likely Alpha (= ESFj)
But overall type description/portrait seems more ESFp (=Gamma)

is most obvious; appears to be his weakest function (perhaps PoLR).

[aka-kitsune]

No takers, huh...?

Should I perhaps have posted this query in the "What's My Type?" area? Might I have gotten some responses? Perhaps I've alienated the socionics intelligensia with my presumption and lack of faith?

[aka-kitsune]

I see now (my error was inadvertent)...

an ESFp unusually values Fe, they may be an Se sub leaning towards beta ESTp. if they have unusually strong Fe, maybe they are an Fi sub leaning towards delta ENFp.

OK... then ESFp with strong valuing would look more like delta ENFp...? How exactly? Any examples of ENFp presentation? ESFp sub leaning toward ESTp would look how? Discernible from an actual ESTp??

(typically ethicists are stronger in both F functions although the tradeoff is that Fi subtypes, being more serious and less alpha/beta, value Fe less.)

Definitely not at all serious... hmm. That's why I seriously doubt Gamma or Delta.

if an ESFp both values and is strong in Fe more so than usual, the conventional subtypes do not account for that. they may be a very talented person or very well-rounded possibly (assuming you agree there can be more variation in individuals than 16 pigeonholes.) but to best-fit them into a socionics type, they're still going ESFp, Fi or Se or "mixed" subtype/no subtype. (the mixed places them squarely in the middle of their own quadra, gamma in this case.) just look at what the person values and is strong at relative to their other values and strengths rather than say, comparing them to other people too much (who many vary in talent and well-roundedness.)

I guess my question can be modified to ask how to differentiate ESFp from ESFj. From descriptions, it seems ESFps are less serious than ESFjs, although the quadra to which ESFj belongs, Alpha, is overall judged to be less serious than Gamma quadra. An ESFj would have in the ego block, and therefore should express this prominently, correct?

[Jarno]

let's forget about the subtypes, they aren't relevant now.

The main difference in ESFP and ESFJ is their temperament.

[Jarno]

another difference is the ESFJ is a sort of submissive, work for the group type.

while the ESFP is more rebellious.

[Jarno]

This is all a bunch of theoretical crap.

I've met lots of ESFP's. You cannot say they are leaning towards ENFP or ESTP.

They are all clear ESFP's.

If you want some theory: one subtype is an ESFP-Se the other is a subtype ESFP-Fi.

But knowing this won't help you at all, the only way you start recognizing subtypes is when you've met a lot of ESFP's. Then you can differentiate them:

If you are interested... :

TACTICIAN
Sensory subtype appears by emotional, irregular and nervous person. Behind its uneasiness and by sincere discomfort hides itself a constant thirst of dynamism. Much it undertakes and pulverizes many forces in vain in spite of effort to be diplomatic, it is too critical and it is categorical. Frequently it is agitated, although he does not forget to make compliments. It occurs superfluously it is energetic or intractable, especially if to it something they tie. It can look at the collocutor somewhat condescendingly, catch with his prickly jokes. But it can be very amiable and it knows how for long to persuade, if this is necessary. It possesses good artistic abilities, it knows how to cheer guests. It is usually thin, it follows the figure, it is periodically occupied by sport. Eyes are more frequently small or deeply sponsors. Gestures are impatient, and the motions nervous, irregular. Poses frequently change. Gait weakened or unsteady, only being braided. Speech can be indistinct or tongue twister.

TRADER
Ethical subtype - active and mobile person, willingly is moved and are established useful connections. It knows how to make compliments, in detail tells about his possibilities or abilities close ones, loves to produce impression. Intimate intonations in the voice, the confidence manner of contact and charm make it possible to rapidly conquer the arrangement of collocutor. It frequently has convex eyes, smooth, confident gestures, assume the slack poses. It is inclined to dress uncommonly, by thrust, it is extravagant. In spite of rounded forms or tendency toward the completeness not it kompleksuyet apropos of deficiencies in its figure and everything dresses which pleases itself it. Loves to sit razvalyas'. The gait is elastic, is haughty. It is held very confidently, even it is protective.

[aka-kitsune]

The main difference in ESFP and ESFJ is their temperament.

"Temperament"? Isn't that an MBTI term?

another difference is the ESFJ is a sort of submissive, work for the group type.

while the ESFP is more rebellious.

ESFj is submissive? Or do you mean group-oriented, enjoying group activity and willing to work for the good of the group? ESFp is rebellious how? Defying authority? Refusing to be obligated by group needs?

[Jarno]

The main difference in ESFP and ESFJ is their temperament.

"Temperament"? Isn't that an MBTI term?

another difference is the ESFJ is a sort of submissive, work for the group type.

while the ESFP is more rebellious.

ESFj is submissive? Or do you mean group-oriented, enjoying group activity and willing to work for the good of the group? ESFp is rebellious how? Defying authority? Refusing to be obligated by group needs?

Temperament is the result behaviour of E..P and E..J in this case. It's socionics terminology. Not to be mistaken for Keirseys Temperaments, which is something different.

I mean indeed for an ESFJ group oriented, willing to work for the good of the group
ESFP is more of a defying authority, not willing to adapt to others.

[Jarno]

ESFjs have Se producing. and you can see them being a little pushy too, emotional in parallel, with bursting and imposing waves, not harsh or hateful, though when someone acts like a jerk they can become like that, but in a pleasant and Si filling with sweetness sort of way, like of a mother soothing a baby. ESFps are not pushy generally. they do laugh and can get emotional, though it's different. there is no Si here and the emotions are not imposing sort of.

Yeah.

I guess this imposing is also related to ESFJ' being a rational and ESFP being an irrational