LSI/ISTj having problems with feelings and acting aloof

[Creepy-Andrea]

I'm an istj and I've recently been having a hard time in relationships. My "current" boyfriend completely went off last night and accused me of being a cold, unemotional bitch... to put it bluntly. He accused me of using him solely for sex. HA. This came as a complete shock to me and I'm extremely hurt. Although, I do have to agree with him since i never tell him how i feel and i'm not physically affectionate. This isn't the first time this has happened, I can't seem to really open up to anyone and it's causing a lot of problems for me. I'm wondering if this is typical behavior or if it's something wrong with me personally? I don't intentionally act cold or aloof...i just come across that way and it kills me to think I'm sending off those vibes. Do any other ISTJ's have any words of wisdom on how to overcome this? Can anyone identify with this?

[Expat]

Andrea,

First, welcome. I can imagine that you must be very concerned about this, otherwise you wouldn't even have tried asking about it here.

I can identify - up to a point - with that situation from your boyfriend's point of view since I'm still recovering from a relationship with an ISTj woman. For the record, I never acted the way he did or said what he did, and she's the one who ended it (very badly).

I'd say that this is indeed "typical" behavior for ISTjs and, as far as that goes, there's nothing wrong with you personally. Your coming across as cold and aloof, and not picking up other people's feelings well, and being shocked by unexpected events, even perceived as being able to use someone just for sex -- all of that is very familiar to me.

Further - based on the very little information you gave - my initial impression is that your boyfriend may be a particularly sensitive type, perhaps an ENFp, ESFp or even an INFj, in the sense of requiring more obvious displays of your feelings. Other types will be more understanding of your type's characteristics. Perhaps because you are not very good at reading people's feelings yourself, you tend to form relationships precisely with people of types who are very expressive of their feelings for you -- but that doesn't mean that they'll pick up your "vibes" correctly. Your theoretical dual, the ENFj, is precisely someone who's very strong in picking up other people's feelings well rather than being that "emotional" himself. If - for whatever reason - you tend to feel attracted to ENFps, for instance, the kind of problem you described is likely to have happened often.

As to how to "overcome" this. An easy - and perhaps not very helpful - suggestion would be for you to look for guys of types who'd be less likely to react to your characteristics the way your boyfriend did.

Another suggestion is just to be aware that your type's characteristics come across that way to some types, and perhaps to try to compensate it a bit by developing things like expressing your feelings more openly.

Personally I was very happy with my "cold and unemotional bitch" of an ISTj woman :wink: and hoped to marry her - illusionary relationships between ENTj and ISTj can work, I think.

[Creepy-ENFPerator]

I'm an istj and I've recently been having a hard time in relationships. My "current" boyfriend completely went off last night and accused me of being a cold, unemotional bitch... to put it bluntly. He accused me of using him solely for sex. HA. This came as a complete shock to me and I'm extremely hurt. Although, I do have to agree with him since i never tell him how i feel and i'm not physically affectionate. This isn't the first time this has happened, I can't seem to really open up to anyone and it's causing a lot of problems for me. I'm wondering if this is typical behavior or if it's something wrong with me personally? I don't intentionally act cold or aloof...i just come across that way and it kills me to think I'm sending off those vibes. Do any other ISTJ's have any words of wisdom on how to overcome this? Can anyone identify with this?

Well as a feeling type I dont see ISTjs as cold and unemotional, on the contrary. Some types and individuals feel uncomfortable, even threatened when they talk to an ISTj because of their "coldness" and I have experienced the same, before I didn't understand that they actually have difficulties to express their feelings. The female ISTjs I know have learned to open up more and show and tell what they feel, so that others understand them better and are not confused. I don't know exactly how they did that, but I think this is possible simply by training your . I think a great part of people would act more friendly towards you if you would show your feelings more (that's what I've observed). I'm saying that from a feeler perspective.

[Creepy-andrea]

Yes, I've thought about trying to attract different types of guys but guys who are just like me, turn me off quite a bit. I'm need someone who has no problem showing their emotions because it takes a little bit of weight off of me.

I just dont know how to go about showing how i feel. I honestly feel like I'm missing that part of my brain. Whenever I do try to show I care about someone through words, I seems to come out forced and unnatural and I get very uncomfortable.

[Creepy-ENFPerator]

Yes, I've thought about trying to attract different types of guys but guys who are just like me, turn me off quite a bit. I'm need someone who has no problem showing their emotions because it takes a little bit of weight off of me.

I just dont know how to go about showing how i feel. I honestly feel like I'm missing that part of my brain. Whenever I do try to show I care about someone through words, I seems to come out forced and unnatural and I get very uncomfortable.

You could find someone who has no problems in showing emotions. The feeling types are the best at this: ENFj - your dual would be ideal and perhaps an ESFj could do this too.

The weak functions are stereotypical and always need some help and want to be educated. If it feels like a particular part of the brain is missing or is empty, then it could be „found” or „filled” with the necessary positive behavior patterns. The ENFj could teach you how to express emotions naturally and „record” this behavior in your . You just need somebody who sets a positive example.

[Angel von Himmel]

Yes, I've thought about trying to attract different types of guys but guys who are just like me, turn me off quite a bit. I'm need someone who has no problem showing their emotions because it takes a little bit of weight off of me.

I just dont know how to go about showing how i feel. I honestly feel like I'm missing that part of my brain. Whenever I do try to show I care about someone through words, I seems to come out forced and unnatural and I get very uncomfortable.

Find an male ENFj ... there are more of them than you would think.

[Expat]

Yes, I've thought about trying to attract different types of guys but guys who are just like me, turn me off quite a bit. I'm need someone who has no problem showing their emotions because it takes a little bit of weight off of me.

But precisely therein lies the problem, in my opinion.

If I got it right, you mean you need guys who show their emotions clearly, so as not to leave you insecure about their feelings, since you as ISTj are not very good at picking up what others are feeling - so it takes "that bit of weight off of you".

The most emotionally expressive types are INFjs, ISFjs, ENFps, and ESFps, so you're more likely to be attracted to those. But all of those are weak in picking up what others feel, just like you. So they will also desire the same "bit of weight off of them". Do you see what I mean? They are the most "sensitive" types and precisely the ones most likely to see you as "cold and unemotional".

I had a similar situation with an INFj woman -- she'd call me "insensitive" and suddenly explode with similar accusations as you described regarding your boyfriend.

ENFjs, ESFjs, INFps and ISFps are the most likely NOT to need constant obvious demonstrations of your feelings (assuming that they do exist - they'd pick up that, too). But they won't be as emotionally expressive as the first types I listed, either.

You don't have to look for guys "just like you" -- you can find types who are more expressive than yourself, and at the same type not as sensitive as I suspect you boyfriend is -- ENTjs or ESTjs for instance, if you can't find an ENFj. Just don't expect them to be as expressive as those sensitive types. I'm afraid you'll have to live with at least some of that weight.

I just dont know how to go about showing how i feel. I honestly feel like I'm missing that part of my brain. Whenever I do try to show I care about someone through words, I seems to come out forced and unnatural and I get very uncomfortable.

That part of your brain is indeed "missing" (ie weaker than others) - just like your boyfriend probably has far less willpower than you - right? That's precisely what socionics is about.

[ENFperator]

The most emotionally expressive types are INFjs, ISFjs, ENFps, and ESFps, so you're more likely to be attracted to those. But all of those are weak in picking up what others feel, just like you.

No. ENTps and ESTps are unconfident in this area. INFjs, ISFjs, ENFps, ESFps do pick up what others feel well, that’s why the INFj is also called The Humanist and the ENFp – The Psychologist. They only do that in a different way than ESFjs and ENFjs. If the ENFj knows how you feel, the ENFp can feel the same emotions you feel. The is like a screen on which a person projects his/her emotions. Personally, when I’m talking to somebody I have the feeling, that this person is inside me and I can really feel him or her, almost read thoughts. Of course, it’s possible to switch off this process if it’s needed, but lack of empathy isn’t a feeler’s natural state.

[Expat]

Fair enough, good points, and of course I can't claim to understand at first hand how types pick up other people's feelings.

But my impression - based on my experience with one INFj and one ENFp - is that, where their own feelings are concerned - for instance, if they have romantic feelings for someone - that tends to interfere with their ability to pick up other people's feelings correctly - they become too sensitive. Just like it seemed to be the case with Andrea's boyfriend. I just think that that scenario is much more likely to happen with an INFj or ENFp than with an ENFj, who'll be more cool-headed about it.

[ENFperator]

I agree, an ENFj would be more cool-headed about it. Her reserved behavior could even amuse him (just like female ISTps can amuse me).

[Creepy-]

INFj and ISFj emotionally expressive? What a joke.

ISFjs don't pick up waht others feel, they pick up what they think is right for others to be feeling.

[ENFperator]

Congratulations, you have figured out (I think) the difference between and ... and described it even better than I could... in english!

The is a comprehension about how to influence emotions and how others influence your emotions; interaction. ID is much more unflexible than Ego . ID is the place where the all archaic models lie.

[Creepy-]

Interesting. I am unsure if the guy I like is an ISTj/INTj or both. Are they ways to tell the difference?

I am an ENFj and let me tell you, I am VERY emotionally demonstrative. But I don't expet much in return, only that I am allowed the freedom to be open with my feelings and be affectionate. It makes me happy to shower attention on my mate.

I think INFps are VERY dramatic and almost demand attention back from their mate. ENFps are more into playing and having fun and INFjs are more into connection and having deep converations.

Just my observation on the different NF types.

[implied]

[Creepy-Kioshi]

She gave me so much and I gave her so little in return. People always tried to please her and her face would light up in response. I loved to see her like that. But she never showed me that part of her. I tried to do what others did, but her response was always cold and indifferent. She saw my pain. She told me I did not need to try and please her. She told me I gave her more than I imagined. But she was sweet, and too generous. She was not pleased, so I imagined her to be displeased. The harder I tried to please her, the more displeased I imagined her. She gave me so much. It seemed there was little I could give her in return. I imagined she would be better off without me. And then, without a word, I left her.

OK. So I'm an idiot. It's my curse. It would have been convenient to blame my thoughts and actions on her cold and indifferent responses. But she did what she needed to do to preserve the integrity of our relationship. I just had unresolved issues. I knew I cared for her because she said she felt cared for. I did not know how I cared for her.

My ESTP friends are like clients. We have sort of a peer-peer thing going. They handle my public affairs. I handle theirs. Our private affairs are our own. Our relationship is based on mutual support. The relationships generally go smooth when I'm not acting like an idiot.

My ENFJ friends are like servers. Our relationship is based on active learning. They are my teachers. I am their student. I am an extremely independent and gifted student, so my ENFJ friends generally have to create a demand. They are good at it. We would not have met otherwise.

I never had an ISTJ friend, a few parasites though. ISTJ are like my public servants. They have to create a demand, since I generally don't go around looking for people to patronize. What cause would an ISTJ have me support?

Love comes in many flavors, each sweet in its own special way. It makes no sense to order cola and then complain because it doesn't taste like root beer. Just do what you do and do it well. That's the most anyone can reasonably ask of you. You have no obligation to live out someone's private fantasy.

[Fermi]

Is the thing is they don't show they got feelings or that they are bad showing them??

Are they comfortable in any? Which is it?

Why do you need feelings anyway? :wink:

[07490]

Find an male ENFj ... there are more of them than you would think.

HA yes.1

[smccosker]

just be yourself and if someone has a problem with the way u act e.g too unemotional then they are not for you. find someone who appreciates you for being calm, stable and anti-drama

[strrrng]

I think any advice given may be a bit overdue.

[redbaron]

I think any advice given may be a bit overdue.

[Ezra]

I think any advice given may be a bit overdue.

LOL

[strrrng]

lol... it would be pretty fucked up if she killed herself or something, and people came onto some forum giving her advice about it several years later.

[jessica129]

OH MY GOD

I think I posted this. lmao. I never remember going by "Andrea" or thinking I was ISTJ but this sounds really oddly familiar. ahahaha

[07490]

OH MY GOD

I think I posted this. lmao. I never remember going by "Andrea" or thinking I was ISTJ but this sounds really oddly familiar. ahahaha

that is becuase you are still an ISTj and my dual , coming with <3

[jessica129]

haha

Where'd you find this? I wonder why my name didn't show up as the author. Oh and I didn't kill myself, strrrng

[strrrng]

haha

Where'd you find this? I wonder why my name didn't show up as the author. Oh and I didn't kill myself, strrrng

lol <3

[07490]

haha

Where'd you find this? I wonder why my name didn't show up as the author. Oh and I didn't kill myself, strrrng

BY searching OLd betas thread, then I found one about the ISTj and bump it, I had NO fucking ideas that it was you, such a coincidence.

[jessica129]

lol

Wow, three years ago. I wonder when I made the leap over to Delta. I think I was basing my type strictly off MBTI descriptions and the fact that that boyfriend had assigned ISTJ to me so I just accepted it.

[Park]

Expat is a genius. And probably the most noble guy that's even been here.

[Binky]

Expat is a genius. And probably the most noble guy that's even been here.

So how does his butt taste?

[ArchonAlarion]

INFj, ISFj, ENFp, and ESFp most emotionally expressive types.....

WTF.

Not only is that bullshit by "asshole socionics", but its also bullshit by "actual socionics."

[strrrng]

INFj, ISFj, ENFp, and ESFp most emotionally expressive types.....

WTF.

Not only is that bullshit by "asshole socionics", but its also bullshit by "actual socionics."

I thought it was the Fe egos who were portrayed as the most emotionally expressive by most "classical socionists"?

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[ArchonAlarion]

The most emotionally expressive types are INFjs, ISFjs, ENFps, and ESFps, so you're more likely to be attracted to those. But all of those are weak in picking up what others feel, just like you. So they will also desire the same "bit of weight off of them". Do you see what I mean? They are the most "sensitive" types and precisely the ones most likely to see you as "cold and unemotional".

....

[tereg]

So how does his butt taste?

[jessica129]

For comparison, how about you post something you wrote about socionics 3 years ago? Or better yet, wait 3 years and hopefully you'll see how dumb some of the things you say are.

Yeah, this thread is pretty embarassing.

[07490]

Andrea,

First, welcome. I can imagine that you must be very concerned about this, otherwise you wouldn't even have tried asking about it here.

I can identify - up to a point - with that situation from your boyfriend's point of view since I'm still recovering from a relationship with an ISTj woman. For the record, I never acted the way he did or said what he did, and she's the one who ended it (very badly).

I'd say that this is indeed "typical" behavior for ISTjs and, as far as that goes, there's nothing wrong with you personally. Your coming across as cold and aloof, and not picking up other people's feelings well, and being shocked by unexpected events, even perceived as being able to use someone just for sex -- all of that is very familiar to me.

Further - based on the very little information you gave - my initial impression is that your boyfriend may be a particularly sensitive type, perhaps an ENFp, ESFp or even an INFj, in the sense of requiring more obvious displays of your feelings. Other types will be more understanding of your type's characteristics. Perhaps because you are not very good at reading people's feelings yourself, you tend to form relationships precisely with people of types who are very expressive of their feelings for you -- but that doesn't mean that they'll pick up your "vibes" correctly. Your theoretical dual, the ENFj, is precisely someone who's very strong in picking up other people's feelings well rather than being that "emotional" himself. If - for whatever reason - you tend to feel attracted to ENFps, for instance, the kind of problem you described is likely to have happened often.

As to how to "overcome" this. An easy - and perhaps not very helpful - suggestion would be for you to look for guys of types who'd be less likely to react to your characteristics the way your boyfriend did.

Another suggestion is just to be aware that your type's characteristics come across that way to some types, and perhaps to try to compensate it a bit by developing things like expressing your feelings more openly.

Personally I was very happy with my "cold and unemotional bitch" of an ISTj woman :wink: and hoped to marry her - illusionary relationships between ENTj and ISTj can work, I think.

I have never interacted with him on this forum or outside of it, but he seems to be someone who can write or talk about things in a very responisble way.