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Thread: Fictional Beta Characters In Movies and Literature

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    Macbeth SLE

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Macbeth SLE
    Macduff LSE

    Macbeth's Wife EIE

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    SLE's

    megaman (cartoon)
    sonic the hedgehog (satam cartoon)
    The Tick
    Grunt (Mass effect)

    LSI's
    Every character in metal gear solid

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    I've seen Achilles from the Illiad is often typed as SLE. He's an awesome character, kind of ambiguous though. On one hand he hates war and is yearning for peace, on the other hand he's merciless and extremely brutal when he's fighting. Sometimes willing to submit himself in order to achieve a common purpose and suddenly he wants to do things his own way. Not so sure about him, but it would be interesting as he's often referred to as the ideal hero of epic literature.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kadda1212 View Post
    I've seen Achilles from the Illiad is often typed as SLE. He's an awesome character, kind of ambiguous though. On one hand he hates war and is yearning for peace, on the other hand he's merciless and extremely brutal when he's fighting. Sometimes willing to submit himself in order to achieve a common purpose and suddenly he wants to do things his own way. Not so sure about him, but it would be interesting as he's often referred to as the ideal hero of epic literature.
    why do you think is he seen as the ideal hero? Lead by his greave about the death of patroklos he dishonors the body of hector and shows lack of respect and compassion. When it comes to manners and nobleness Hector is way more heroic than Achilles. He's also not yeraning for piece whe just doesnt want to fight anymore because of personal issues with Agamemnon(?).
    I see him as SLE too no doubt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daft21 View Post
    why do you think is he seen as the ideal hero? Lead by his greave about the death of patroklos he dishonors the body of hector and shows lack of respect and compassion. When it comes to manners and nobleness Hector is way more heroic than Achilles. He's also not yeraning for piece whe just doesnt want to fight anymore because of personal issues with Agamemnon(?).
    I see him as SLE too no doubt.
    He's seen as the ideal hero because he's acting so human. He's making mistakes because he's blinded by anger. After all he shows compassion when Priamos asks him to return Hector's body.
    Love is like an energy, rushing in, rushing inside of me...

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    Shippo (Inu Yasha) - IEI



    Hotaru Tomoe (Sailor Moon) - IEI



    Rakka and Reki (Haibane Renmei) - probably both some kind of betas...



    Re-l Mayer (Ergo Proxy) - SLE



    Vincent Law (Ergo Proxy) - IEI



    Not entirely sure about that all, though.
    Last edited by kadda1212; 11-04-2013 at 04:46 PM.
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    What about my favorite shoe salesman by the way? Is he an SLE?

    Love is like an energy, rushing in, rushing inside of me...

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    Default Fictional betas

    Hello everyone! I was wondering if there's any kind if general consensus over fictional characters that emulate beta types the best in books, tv shows, movies, etc. Are there ones that stand out as particularly representative?

    Jim, Invisible. "Socionics something something". The16types.info shoutbox; May 15, 2014.

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    Javert (Ti-LSI) from "Les miserables" written by Victor Hugo.

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    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vois View Post
    me
    You're my favorite book, Vois!

    Jim, Invisible. "Socionics something something". The16types.info shoutbox; May 15, 2014.

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    I'd vouch for Hemmingway in general.

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    Several characters are beta in this book.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsiders_(novel)

    Edit: I wonder which two quadras are most likely to have a "turf war"
    Last edited by Aylen; 03-20-2014 at 09:06 PM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Vegeta
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    off of the top of my head

    ESTp:

    Bender (Futurama)


    Bart (The Simpsons)


    Bender (The Breakfast Club)

    ISTj


    Severus Snape (Harry Potter)


    Anton Ego (Ratatouille)


    Frollo (Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame)

    ENFj:


    Ursula (The Little Mermaid)

    and i actually can't think of anyone else other than more disney villains *shrug*

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    I think maybe Finn from Adventure Time is SLE.

    I don't know how to post pictures.

    Jim, Invisible. "Socionics something something". The16types.info shoutbox; May 15, 2014.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWholeEnglish View Post
    I think maybe Finn from Adventure Time is SLE.

    I don't know how to post pictures.
    You can post fictional pictures by using [img] and then [ /img] (with the link in between).

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    You can post fictional pictures by using [img] and then [ /img] (with the link in between).
    Invisible Jim, you're the coolest guy I know.

    Jim, Invisible. "Socionics something something". The16types.info shoutbox; May 15, 2014.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWholeEnglish View Post
    Invisible Jim, you're the coolest guy I know.
    I have to stay out of threads like these because fictional beta people will get jealous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I have to stay out of threads like these because fictional beta people will get jealous.
    nd then Hulk smash?

    Jim, Invisible. "Socionics something something". The16types.info shoutbox; May 15, 2014.

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    The ones I come to think of right now.


    SLE


    John Doggett (X-Files)



    Hank (Breaking Bad)



    LSI

    Gru (Despicable Me)



    EIE

    Agnes (Despicable Me)


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    IEI-Ni? He's basically playing himself.



    Hossain Sabzian is a film lover and huge fan of popular Iranian director Mohsen Makhmalbaf. Sabzian is riding the bus one day reading a copy of the novel The Cyclist when he meets Mrs. Ahankhah, a fan of the film. Sabzian tells her that he is Makhmalbaf, the author of the book and film. She's a bit surprised that a famous director is riding public transportation, but Sabzian explains that this is how he finds his subjects for film and that art must spring from life. Posing as Makhmalbaf, Sabzian visits the Ahankhah family several times over the next couple of weeks. He flatters them by saying he wants to use their house for his next film and their sons as his actors. He even obtains a substantial amount of money from them, ostensibly to prepare for the film. Mr. Ahankhah has his suspicions though, especially when a magazine photo shows a younger darker-haired Makhmalbaf. He invites an ambitious journalist friend (Hossain Farazmand) over, who confirms that Sabzian is indeed an impostor. The police come to arrest Sabzian, while Farazmand takes several pictures for his upcoming article: "Bogus Makhmalbaf Arrested." Kiarostami intersperses these scenes throughout the film, which does not progress chronologically. They are re-enactments.
    Because of Sabzian’s obsession with the sufferings of his condition and his readiness to quote classical poetry in the courtroom, many Western critics have championed Close-Up as a film that recognizes the redeeming and ennobling powers of art and the soulful potential of the common man (and thereby the commonality of all men). However, before one’s emotive feeling run to far in that direction, one should reflect somewhat on Iranian popular culture. Compared to most Americans and Europeans, Iranians, and this cuts across a wide spectrum of popular culture, are more given to philosophical speculation. They are also much given to meditating on the presumptively tragic and fatalistic circumstances of life. In addition, poetry has a much greater presence in everyday interactions in Iranian culture than in the West, so Sabzian’s poetic sensitivities were not so unusual in the Iranian context – in fact Kiarostami, himself, is a published poet. But Sabzian does seem to be somewhat unusual in other respects. Although uneducated, he seems unusually articulate and highly reflective. Moreover, his behaviour and statements suggest that he is not so much a man of the people, but more the opposite – something of a narcissist. In Chokrollahi and Mansouri’s 1996 documentary, Close-Up Long Shot, which interviews Sabzian several years later, these aspects to his character are apparently more clearly revealed. What Kiarostami had under his microscope in Close-Up, then, was not the noble, common man of the working class, who was speaking for all his “brothers”, but instead appears to have been more of a loner obsessed with his own victimhood. In fact Sabzian strikes me as a poseur who habitually plays a role in order to fool others and perhaps himself, too. Such a person, who is always “on stage”, tends to make a better actor than do most people, and this is undoubtedly why Sabzian’s performance is so seamlessly effective across the interleaved documentary and reenacted segments of the film. Kiarostami implicitly acknowledged this when he asked him during his court testimony whether he (Sabzian) wasn’t an imposter and still acting even at that very moment, while talking to the judge. Thus the bottom line is that we cannot say Close-Up is an authentic paean to the sufferings of the common man; it is actually an examination of a single, self-pitying individual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
    IEI-Ni?

    Don't think so.What is Beta about this movie? Not seeing it and it looks dreadfully earnest to the point of pain. As a Beta, I feel like I'd die a thousand deaths watching this. Also, the sound was bad, so I stopped it and read the description after a few minutes.
    "Moral crusaders with zeal but no ethical understanding are likely to give us solutions that are worse than the problems."
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabrielle View Post
    Don't think so.What is Beta about this movie? Not seeing it and it looks dreadfully earnest to the point of pain. As a Beta, I feel like I'd die a thousand deaths watching this. Also, the sound was bad, so I stopped it and read the description after a few minutes.
    It's a reenactment using the real people involved. So while I'll agree that the format isn't stereotypically Beta, I was mainly drawing attention to the person being interviewed.

    He's sensitive, manipulative, cunning, lives in his own little world and for a brief moment, seems to enjoy having power over the family that takes him in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
    It's a reenactment using the real people involved. So while I'll agree that the format isn't stereotypically Beta, I was mainly drawing attention to the person being interviewed.

    He's sensitive, manipulative, cunning, lives in his own little world and for a brief moment, seems to enjoy having power over the family that takes him in.

    Oh, okay, This is intriguing from a few angles.
    "Moral crusaders with zeal but no ethical understanding are likely to give us solutions that are worse than the problems."
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I have to stay out of threads like these because fictional beta people will get jealous.



    Last edited by Aylen; 04-11-2014 at 07:41 AM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Persona (1966)

    Sister Alma - IEI-Fe
    Elisabet Vogler - EIE-Ni
    The Doctor - LSI

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I have to stay out of threads like these because fictional beta people will get jealous.
    I am so disappointed..I was waiting for your list of forum members to pop up. I will continue to use my imagination.

    [just kidding]


    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    SLE: Barney Stinson (How I Met Your Mother)

    IEI: Nick Carraway (The Great Gatsby), Lindsay (Freaks and Geeks)

    LSI: Jordan Catilano (My So-Called Life) could be IEI though?, Daniel (Freaks and Geeks), Robin (How I Met Your Mother)

    EIE:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post

    SLE through the eyes of ILI

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    Emperor Caligula - probably insane SLE



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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    I have a theory about this. Betas can tend to be more extreme as well as more emotionally expressive and therefore more dramatic. Thus, we get a lot of beta villains. I think Clytaemestra, Iago, Othello, Medea, and The Joker in The Dark Knight are all beta, and there are definitely some more. The big splashy villains are often betas.

    I have seen the evil EII character, but the evil EII is usually a character that's super-committed to bad principles. I agree that delta villains tend to be of the Dystopia/big brother kind, but delta villainy, like delta heroics, is often on a more practical, everyday scale, I think.
    Beta villains are more likely to struggle for power (and often be the antagonists in a story) or to commit "crimes of passion". Delta villainy comes from a sense of alienation (a Fi that finds no way of being channeled into the outer world), from an all-too-good attunement to human darkness, from arrogance, or from a form of hidden disappointment that manifests as manipulative maneuvering of others. Dostoyevsky's Stavrogin is a Delta villain. Or Tolstoy's Father Sergius (if he can be called a villain).

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    SLE through the eyes of ILI
    Whose eyes? Me, Kubrick or Anthony Burgess?
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Whose eyes? Me, Kubrick or Anthony Burgess?
    Kubrick. I haven't read the book.

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    Seven of Nine - exemplary of LSI-Ti and insane cyberoptic fembot hotness

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    Mavis Gary (Charlize Theron) in Young Adult - EIE


  38. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    Mavis Gary (Charlize Theron) in Young Adult - EIE

    Oh god, yes. I thought the same several years back when I first watched this. Her character needles unabashedly into her baggage with an enthusiasm that is all to beta.

    I see this as natural process of a personal walk-about, although to the outside world it looks...crazy.

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    Another EIE: Jasmine from Blue Jasmine.


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    In the anime Metropolis, Atlas is a very stereotypical revolutionary EIE character. Duke Red also seems to be LSI.

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