Quotes of Alpha Quadra

[SFVB]

I find it interesting to look at famous quotes of members (I believe are typed correctly) from this particular quadra because I believe the brevity of their statements reveal the essence of their core values. Maybe I'll continue the list for other quadras (and perhaps it should be moved...feel free to do so), but as it stands, I'm having trouble enough finding true ESFjs to add even to this list. Hope you find it interesting....

ENTp-ILE

Albert Einstein
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
"Force always attracts men of low morality."
"I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
"I have little patience with scientists who take a board of wood, look for its thinnest part, and drill a great number of holes where drilling is easy."
"I do not believe that civilization will be wiped out in a war fought with the atomic bomb. Perhaps two-thirds of the people of the earth will be killed."
Oscar Wilde
"A thing is not necessarily true because a man dies for it."
"All that I desire to point out is the general principle that life imitates art far more than art imitates life. "
"An idea that is not dangerous is unworthy of being called an idea at all."
"By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, journalism keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community."
John F. Kennedy
"For time and the world do not stand still. Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or the present are certain to miss the future."
"I'm an idealist without illusions."
"If art is to nourish the roots of our culture, society must set the artist free to follow his vision wherever it takes him."
" Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind."
Sigmund Freud
"The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization. "
"The liberty of the individual is no gift of civilization. It was greatest before there was any civilization."
"The tendency to aggression is an innate, independent, instinctual disposition in man... it constitutes the powerful obstacle to culture."
"What a distressing contrast there is between the radiant intelligence of the child and the feeble mentality of the average adult."

SEI - ISFp

Alexander Dumas
"Happiness is like those palaces in fairy tales whose gates are guarded by dragons: we must fight in order to conquer it."
"I prefer rogues to imbeciles, because they sometimes take a rest."
"It is rare that one can see in a little boy the promise of a man, but one can almost always see in a little girl the threat of a woman."
"Pure love and suspicion cannot dwell together: at the door where the latter enters, the former makes its exit."
"All human wisdom is summed up in two words; wait and hope."
Marilyn Monroe
"Before marriage, a girl has to make love to a man to hold him. After marriage, she has to hold him to make love to him."
"I have too many fantasies to be a housewife. I guess I am a fantasy."
" Hollywood is a place where they'll pay you a thousand dollars for a kiss and fifty cents for your soul."
"I don't mind living in a man's world as long as I can be a woman in it."
Jaqueline Kennedy
"Even though people may be well known, they hold in their hearts the emotions of a simple person for the moments that are the most important of those we know on earth: birth, marriage and death."
"I don't think there are any men who are faithful to their wives."
"If you bungle raising your children, I don't think whatever else you do matters very much. "
Marc Chagall
"Only love interests me, and I am only in contact with things that revolve around love. "
"In our life there is a single color, as on an artist's palette, which provides the meaning of life and art. It is the color of love."

LII - INTj

Thomas Jefferson
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."
"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."
"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead... "
"Force is the vital principle and immediate parent of despotism."
"I do not take a single newspaper, nor read one a month, and I feel myself infinitely the happier for it."
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Carl Jung
"If one does not understand a person, one tends to regard him as a fool."
"The healthy man does not torture others - generally it is the tortured who turn into torturers."
"The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense, not between right and wrong."
"Understanding does not cure evil, but it is a definite help, inasmuch as one can cope with a comprehensible darkness. "
"The most intense conflicts, if overcome, leave behind a sense of security and calm that is not easily disturbed. It is just these intense conflicts and their conflagration which are needed to produce valuable and lasting results."
James Madison
"As a man is said to have a right to his property, he may be equally said to have a property in his rights."
" I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."
" It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood."
"The essence of Government is power; and power, lodged as it must be in human hands, will ever be liable to abuse."
Paul Guagin
"Life has no meaning unless one lives it with a will, at least to the limit of one's will. Virtue, good, evil are nothing but words, unless one takes them apart in order to build something with them; they do not win their true meaning until one knows how to apply them."
"We never really know what stupidity is until we have experimented on ourselves."
"The history of modern art is also the history of the progressive loss of art's audience. Art has increasingly become the concern of the artist and the bafflement of the public."

ESE - ESFj

Victor Hugo
"A man is not idle because he is absorbed in thought. There is a visible labor and there is an invisible labor."
"An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise."
"Have no fear of robbers or murderers. They are external dangers, petty dangers. We should fear ourselves. Prejudices are the real robbers; vices the real murders. The great dangers are within us. Why worry about what threatens our heads or purses? Let us think instead of what threatens our souls."
"I met in the street a very poor young man who was in love. His hat was old, his coat worn, his cloak was out at the elbows, the water passed through his shoes, - and the stars through his soul."
"Life is the flower for which love is the honey."

Feel free to add some ESFjs...I'll add their quotes.

[Dmitri Lytov]

I would eliminate from this list:

John Kennedy (ENTj), Oscar Wilde (God knows who he was), Marilyn Monroe and Jackie Kennedy (both ISFj), Carl Jung (INTp)...

[Dmitri Lytov]

Let me explain in few words why I (along with many socionists in the former USSR) believe that these people did not belong to the 1st quadra.
It seems that you understand the mission of the 1st quadra somewhat differently than we do. The 1st quadra is not the quadra of reformers, it is a quadra of beginners, initiators, starters. It is inertial enough for being reformers; under totalitarian regimes, intuitives of the 1st quadra often criticize dictators, but are nevertheless incapable of making serious influence on the events; and sensors often behave as conformists or “mild improvers” of these regimes (like Nikita Khrushchev). The 1st quadra too likes comfort and too dislikes “sharp motions” for being reformers.
By contrast, the 3rd quadra is often a quadra of reformers (like recently in Ukraine, Georgia and Serbia, like 15-20 years ago in Russia, etc.). The are very energetic and possess “sound hipocrisy”. They often speak about ideals, and even believe in these ideals, but at the same time, there are only two things in which they honestly believe: money and influence (like in the ‘Michael’ movie with John Travolta: I am an angel, not a saint). With such “practical” approach, they are fascinating and attractive for many people. John Kennedy spoke a lot about ideals, but in his real life he was probably the most immoral president of the US (if I have money, then I do what I can afford). ENTj is a very energetic type (remember that his 1st function, the processual logic, is very dynamical), and often needs “discharge” in the form of sexual contacts. By contrast, the extroversion of ENTp often manifests in his curiosity, drive for new ideas, but not in the behavior so characteristic to Kennedy.
When we consider Jacqueline Kennedy, we see very characteristic manifestation of the function Power sensing, or Extroverted sensing: it is her lust for many, many, many things she could buy. “I should never be poor!”, she told, and in order to be "not poor", she spent a lot of money every day. She married Onassis not because she loved him, but because she could afford much more together with him, because he could provide the life standard that became usual for her when she lived with John Kennedy.
ISFp is not that sort of people. I do not want to say that ISFp is god, ISFj is bad, I only want to say that her traits were not ISFp traits. ISFp is a type that much cares for his/her emotions and for the emotions of people around him/her; ISFp looks so merry, joyful, that sometimes look like an extrovert (a good example of ISFp woman is Barbra Streysand, especially in her last movie about the Fokker family). And ISFp are usually much milder in their relations with other people than Jackie Kennedy was.
Carl Gustav Jung’s type was wrongly identified by Aushra Augusta, as many socionists actually believe. INTj is a type that structures his/her speech very well, that tries to speak definitely (just read any of Jefferson’s articles to understand what I mean). By contrast, INTp avoids definite phrases, for he/she considers world as a multi-variant game. INTp avoid definite conclusions in order to not correct themselves a posteriori. This is only one example why Jung was rather an INTp than INTj. And his texts are good examples of irrationality: full of associations and allusions, they are at the same time very hard to read because of their vagueness, lots of ambiguities. Even the psychological typology, one of the most important Jung’s achievements, was left uncompleted. Is it normal for rational, closure-focused types? No, it is not, but it is quite normal for the “perceptive-adaptive” (according to Gulenko) irrational introverts.

[SFVB]

Very interesting. I have a few questions and comments however...

It seems that you understand the mission of the 1st quadra somewhat differently than we do. The 1st quadra is not the quadra of reformers, it is a quadra of beginners, initiators, starters.

I don't disagree at all with this. Alpha quadra members do not seek power, nor influence, and do not seek to force their ideas through power and influence on others. Their ideas are what cause the reform, but they themselves do not, because of the associated difficulty and hardship associated with this (Si). Beta quadra members are historically the ones who bring the reform (Lenin (ESTp), ****** (ENFj), etc...), at least from my historical understanding.

By contrast, the 3rd quadra is often a quadra of reformers (like recently in Ukraine, Georgia and Serbia, like 15-20 years ago in Russia, etc.). The are very energetic and possess “sound hipocrisy”

I would agree with this, except to say that I view the 3rd quadra as being the one that sorts out the reform brought by the 2nd. They are the captains of industry, the ones who seek to capitalize on the new ideas set forth by the 2nd quadra. They bring order to chaos, and attempt to efficiently implement the reform that has been laid before them. One can view them as reformers indeed, but I see members of this quadra taking the ideas given to them, and figuring out a way to creat power and wealth from them. This is not so much reforming, in my opinion, as it is contructing and ordering.

ENTj is a very energetic type (remember that his 1st function, the processual logic, is very dynamical), and often needs “discharge” in the form of sexual contacts.

Kennedy's philandering, which is well known, can perhaps be explained this way. But, as I am not as familiar with the ENTp as you are, is it not fair to say that ENTp are drawn to physical experiences of a sensual nature, and things of beauty, and could therefore be tempted to commit infidelity as a result of exposure to an extremely attractive women (such as Marilyn Monroe) who exuded sensuality, as well as a warm nature? I might also add that Kennedy was not seen as a particularly effective president in his ability to implement new ideas. He was someone who historically, people look to for his ideas about govt. and society, and not to his actions during his presidency. Is it also fair to say that ENTps are not incapable of appearing as dynamic and attractive personalities? I don't have an answer to this question, but my initial instincts would be to say it is not fair to say that.

When we consider Jacqueline Kennedy, we see very characteristic manifestation of the function Power sensing, or Extroverted sensing: it is her lust for many, many, many things she could buy. “I should never be poor!”, she told, and in order to be "not poor", she spent a lot of money every day.

It is interesting that you perceive Jackie Kennedy this way. When I watch video of Jackie Kennedy and look at the importance that she placed on her children, she comes across to me as somoene who wanted to simply maintain the level of comfort (Si) that she was accustomed to in her life, not so much to acquire more material possessions and live the high life. Certainly one can view her that way, and I would agree that her marriage to Aristotle Onassis indicates that perhaps that was her intention, but then again, ISFps who grow up spoiled (as I have experienced first hand), tend to like to remain that way. Before her husband's assassination (which would change the emotional life of any human being), interviews with her make her come across as a very sweet and warm human-being, if not a little naive. The ISFps that I have known, also come across this way. Jackie Kennedy, once forced out of public life by her husband's assassination, did everything she could to stay out of the public eye. She did not seek power or position, but was rather seen as someone who displayed remarkably good taste and enjoyed the finer things in life. I will admit that I am no expert on Jackie Kennedy, but that is the impression that I have always had of her.

a good example of ISFp woman is Barbra Streysand, especially in her last movie about the Fokker family.

It is very interesting that you would say this about Barbara Streisand. She is a remarkably controversial figure in this country, due to her outspoken views about politics and her willingness to exert her money power and influence in order to achieve the results she desires in this arena. The ISFps that I know have little to no interest in politics, which is not something that you can say for Barbara Streisand. She is a woman who is very much concerned with her own power, and she is not timid about using it. Her name is constantly associated with the Hollywood political elite, and is someone who to me, does not come across in her interviews as being particularly warm. This is not to say she holds the ISFj type (I do not claim to know her type), only that the kind of values that you associate with the first quadra are not values that I would associate with her, nor would most people.

Carl Gustav Jung’s type was wrongly identified by Aushra Augusta, as many socionists actually believe. INTj is a type that structures his/her speech very well, that tries to speak definitely (just read any of Jefferson’s articles to understand what I mean).

Certainly Jung was a man who did leave many of ideas open-ended, and his exploits in the realm of the absurd do make me agree that INTp is a potentially likely type. It would probably also explain why Freud and him had such a falling out, as Freud viewed Jung as working against him, a common dynamic of contrary relations (as I have experiened for myself). I would certainly accept your analysis here as sound.

[discourse]

Alfa brings into society new ideas. Builds new world views. However, alfa doesn't want them to be used practically, alfa types have doubts and may think their ideas being not ready yet. Also they don't like big changes, prefering comfort and liberal choice of every preson to choose wether or not to fallow it's new world view.

Beta is the quadra of totalitarism. Beta catches fire of the new facinating idea, marxism f.e and starts to demand it to be applied practically. They make alfas idea into the dogma, which is the only right world view by point of them. Everione elsse not likeing it, must be repressed, ESTp and ISTj don't like even a slightest manifestion of resistance to their authority and to their thoughts, they use their will power to suppress dissidents, note the Spring 1968 at Prague. Under their gover, the state starts to stagnate, corruption starts to flow, nepotism starts to flow. There's usually only one party, like communustic was at USSR of nazie party in ******s Germany or look into China. There's also censhorship at the media. The country starts to poor, look at the Northen Korea, f.e.

Then time passes, someone from Gamma ends up in the head of that totalitarian regime. And then reforms start. Gamma is the quadra of capitalism and democratism. They make money and make everithing making money. Suddnely everione want to be part of that economic boom, gold rush starts. New rich people start to become into sociaty. Domocracy becomese very admired. Gamma believes, that everione has the right to do what ever he or she wants' after all, we must to everithing for that, that everione has the change to become rich and powerfull- the moto of Gamma. And then the poorness starts to grow. More and more people don't have the chanche for that luxoriouss life. Rich will start to produce rich, the poors poors. Population of state grows, middle class is formed, democracy works, but not in the way people want- it's good only for the richer part of society. Something must be done to stop this growth of poorness, to stop the crime and to make society into more stable.

And this is made by the Delta representers. When Gamma is very liberal, the Delta is very conservative. The age of old people starts, the age of liberal socialism starts. Moto- to make evirone's life secure. Taxes become high, social secure is good, poor people become more rich, the crime becomes lower. The population starts to wane. More and more old people are dominating in society, there's a danger of nation to dissapear, to die out cause of the aging of society. Immigrants look at those countries as the paradise. And the young people start to come to live into those societies, new ideas become to spread and step by step, the age of alfa prepares it's new dominance again.

Hope ,that this helps to understand, where one or another political figure is set in the place of histroy.

[Dmitri Lytov]

Beta Quadra comes to power in crisis situations. This is a quadra of mobilization and passion. "Forget about "I", there are only "we" and "they"". Many dictators belong(ed) to the Beta Quadra. However, Beta is not omnipotent. It is not only energetic, but also energy-devouring, resource-devouring. It underestimates economy, subdues it to political goals... and finally Beta states fall into bankruptcy, if they are not strong enough to start a victorious war. All the known Beta regimes in Europe collapsed for the last 20 years, and the North Korean regime is about to collapse, because its economy is in a very catastrophic situation.

In civilized and democratic states Beta can also come to power, but very much "diluted" with types from other quadras, which allows to "extionguish" its excessive passion and drive the energy of Beta for peaceful goals. For example, the actual Estonian Prime Minister Juhan Parts is ISTJ, and he President of Latvia Ms. Vike-Freiberga also seems to be ISTJ.

[discourse]

As I understand, the roles of irrationals and rationals in socion and socium are starting and ending. Irrationals start projects and rationals end matters.

Beta does come to power at crisis. Napoleon, ESTP, came to power during the Great Revolution in France. Lenin became the top leader of Soviet Revolution under the chrisis.Pushkin says in his type descripions in my country, that ESTP is the best leader under revolutions and wars. Has a sober mind and is a good tactitian. Under the age of peace, ESTP is a midsize business runner, may start drinking, cause he misses action, but when something terrible happendes, he mobilizes itself and ends up as leader. Much it's personality similars to MBTIs and Keirseys description of ENTJ.

ESTP starts qonquests, is a great qoncuerer, like Alexandre the Great (who was ESTP, not ENTP, like sayd in one MBTI site), but when the empire is built, his power will be herited quit a lot by ISTJ. Soviet Empire was started buy ESTP, but Stalin, ISTJ, build up the communistic regime.

Extraverts are expanding their field of action, introverts stabilize it. Estonia is at the edge of dissapearing it's culture: population is aging and the birth is low, western culture is eating our culture. So to save it, we need introverted leaders who conservate the past. And at the same time, our neighbour is Russia, with ethnical type ESTP, who would like to start another succesfull war, if that possibilitie arizes. Russia is at the edge of revolution by some sosiologists and one great war always takes peoples eye away from problems in home country. Besides that, Beta is always good at manipulating with others oppinions,specially ENFJs (Zhirinovsky).

[Dmitri Lytov]

And at the same time, our neighbour is Russia, with ethnical type ESTP, who would like to start another succesfull war, if that possibilitie arizes

I know that people in Baltic countries are still afraid of Russia, but in fact what you said is not true - war is extremely unpopular in Russia, and Zhirinovsky loses his supporters year by year, day by day. He won about 30% of ballots in 1993 only because the Communist Party was temporarily prohibited at that time. And we Russians do not want to attack other countries either. Although Russians are proud people and do not like to feel guilty, many of us regret for the revolution - it brought problems not only to our neighbors, it also killed millions of our people. Only few protested when several weeks ago the holiday of October Revolution was finally abolished.

[discourse]

It's good to hear this. But off course, media has always liked storys, what sell and selling bad info about Russia shapes our views. I like Russians. They are very kind. Only few of them are agressive. I like Putin, he is very smart, I only wish ,that hes inheritor of leadership is as wise and tolerate, as he is (though, I dont understand that thing going on in Tshetshenia). We both don't need another authority in Kreml, I hope that World has learned from 20th century.

[metaiwan]

In conclusion, ethnic-types are HORRIBLE examples of the people whom live in the country's behaviour. Do not mock and insult the country with making conclusions based upon their political agenda and common stereotypes. However, labelling their POLITICAL AGENDA seems more feasable and realistic. In fact, much more feasable.

Can we do this for our own country? The United States is obviously ENTJ, bullshitting our way into whatever county we want for whatever reason we make up, and taking them over.

I have a major problem believing Jung is an INTP. In fact, the entire reason I became interested in personality theory and socionics, the entire reason this site and forums exist is because I read Jung's material. I have an extremely hard time believing Jung was an INTP. I understood all of his material that I have read very well, and I have no questions that my type is INTJ. The two basic beliefs I have in socionics are that my type and Jung's type are INTJ. Unfortunately, there is a possibility that the translator had something to do with my understanding of Jung's book. I can't quote Jung because English was not his native language and I'd be quoting his translated work. Dmitri, who exactly believes that Jung is INTP and do you have any other reasons for believing this other than what you've stated? Why would Augusta base her work on Jung's functions if she was ENTP and Jung was INTP? Doesn't make sense to me.

[MysticSonic]

And this was stated in the wrong topic. I appologize.

And, if I were to HAVE to comment upon the culture, I would probably say the US, it's people, create a beta quadra aura.

EDIT: Or perhaps I should say that it is the aura I get from Philadelphia, PA, a city known for crime.

EDIT2: I thought Dmitri had Carl Jung pegged as INTj.

[Dmitri Lytov]

Why "contrast" types, e.g. ENTp and INTp, cannot borrow ideas from each other? They obviously can (example: Robert Hook, ENTp, and Isaac Newton, INTp), but they "reform" these ideas in such a way that the author cries: no, I did not mean that! And in this example, Jung considered his mystical ideas much more important than his typology, which was a "by-product" of his intellectual activities. Then Victor Gulenko, INTj, reformed Augusta's ideas and created the modern socionics out of them - it is logical and well structured, but neither Gulenko understands Jung (as it seems from some of his articles), nor Jung would understand Gulenko's constructions. For INTp, freedom of thinking is more important than logical consistence and completeness.

[Maestro]

The very (bizarre) fact that we are debating Carl Jung's type means that nowhere in any of his lectures about types did anyone ask him what his type was that later made it into the archives???

This underscores two points I would like to make: a) Carl Jung must have been a very private person and b) the greater the mind the harder to type.

Personally, I cannot fathom him being an INTP, although he is definetely not a typical INTJ. But come on, he was Carl Jung.

Or maybe he was an INTP and his entire corpus was a brilliant confabulation, as INTPs are wont to create.

[Dmitri Lytov]

Maria Luisa von Franz and Daryl Sharp, who closely worked together with Jung for many years, both believed (and wrote) that Jung was introverted, intuitive, thinking. The same was the opinion of K. Briggs. As for J/P - it depends on how to interpret this criterion ) for Jung himself, it was probably the least understandable one. At least, Jung's disciples easily could say about some of their patients "he is an extroverted sensor with auxiliary feeling... or an extroverted feeler with auxuliary sensing... no matter", while in socionics it is a great, really great and important difference.

[discourse]

What are the original Socionics definitions on rationality/irrationality? Let's make this most comfusing thing clearin this forum .

[Dmitri Lytov]

Look the topic "Socionics for feorigners", or directly here:

http://www.socionika.psihologia.net

It does not differ from the original Jung's definition.

As for Jung himself - he really was a very closed person and IN NO WAY wanted to spread his typology, before it would turn into a well-elaborated methodology. Jung was anxious about the problem that he could not understand the nature of types (although he believed that the types were inborn). And, in regard to his own type, he expressed in a very indirect manner. However, he at least trained his disciples to identify the types, and no wonder that K.Briggs, M.L. von Franz and D. Sharp spoke almost the same, they could not only agree about Jung's rationality/irrationality.

[Creepy-infp-]

When we consider Jacqueline Kennedy, we see very characteristic manifestation of the function Power sensing, or Extroverted sensing: it is her lust for many, many, many things she could buy. “I should never be poor!”, she told, and in order to be "not poor", she spent a lot of money every day.

It is interesting that you perceive Jackie Kennedy this way. When I watch video of Jackie Kennedy and look at the importance that she placed on her children, she comes across to me as somoene who wanted to simply maintain the level of comfort (Si) that she was accustomed to in her life, not so much to acquire more material possessions and live the high life. Certainly one can view her that way, and I would agree that her marriage to Aristotle Onassis indicates that perhaps that was her intention, but then again, ISFps who grow up spoiled (as I have experienced first hand), tend to like to remain that way. Before her husband's assassination (which would change the emotional life of any human being), interviews with her make her come across as a very sweet and warm human-being, if not a little naive. The ISFps that I have known, also come across this way. Jackie Kennedy, once forced out of public life by her husband's assassination, did everything she could to stay out of the public eye. She did not seek power or position, but was rather seen as someone who displayed remarkably good taste and enjoyed the finer things in life. I will admit that I am no expert on Jackie Kennedy, but that is the impression that I have always had of her.

yes, i agree with you. if it's how they are brought up, they'd want to remain that way.

anyway Lytov, you mentioned that ISFPs are not that sort of people. i assume you meant 'sybarites'.

well, i did ask my ISFP sister about this and she told me ''between a rich man and a not-so-rich man, i'm more likely to date the former''. before i continue, i'd do well to mention that my post is not intended to paint an ISFP in an ugly manner. but just to add that--like other psychological types--they are also capable of being materialistic.

my sister has a hard time denying herself from buying more and more pretty attires and accessories. among all of us, she's the one with the most beauty accessories but she rarely gets to use all of them. this is not seen as a waste to her as she prides herself in having a 'collection'. she wants to be very rich some day so that she can afford to buy herself lots of fancy things.

however, this does not necessarily mean that she's a gold-digging woman. eventhough she admitted that she's more likely to date a rich man, she will not marry for money nor whore herself for it. her statement was a general one. the man's character will always be considered first.

in fact, she still prefers to acquire wealth by her own hard work. she said that if she does achieve financial freedom one day, she will never forget what took her to get there.

[discourse]

her statement was a general one. the man's character will always be considered first.

In my humble oppinnion, that's typical SF type answer. NF or ST or NT, wouldn't say things like this.

[SFVB]

In my humble oppinnion, that's typical SF type answer. NF or ST or NT, wouldn't say things like this.

I'm not sure if I agree with that, although I see why you say it. My brother, who has the ISFj type can forgive serious character flaws that I would not, although he is more rigid than I in other areas. I think it tends to be a matter of what one considers to be "good character," and perhaps SFs have a more specific and personal view of what this means than other types who may adopt societal views.

yes, i agree with you. if it's how they are brought up, they'd want to remain that way.

Yeah, that's been my experience. They certainly aren't materialistic like an ISFj, but they HATE living below a certain level of comfort that they are used to. They are also horrible with money, which tends to make them spend profusely on things that are of questionable importance. They are, as it may be said, easily sold, which makes them want things that are new and "cool" the minute they come out, often without evaluating their importance and effect on their financial situation. I have an ISFp friend who hides money from her husband (ISTj) because of this fact.

[discourse]

As much I understand this rationality/irrationality, it seems to me, that rationals end their ideas, but irrationals start from one thing, but end up doing something elsse.

[Dmitri Lytov]

The last saying seems to be close to truth. At least, I often wondered how rationals strive for completing what they have started, even when the business is no more worth completion.

[discourse]

I'd like to find out my own type. I don't trust tests, cause I'm having not so social life phase at the present. But those tests work in a way that as far as I can remember I've been social (but how long? You might have moved and mixed with new people who make you more social) and I become out as Extrovert. I say I don't speak much and I seak for solitude, but at the given moment, you have a life ,where you can't get along with your family , you are angry and look for a places to calm dawn and to forget. You score as Introvert. Middle letters might be unchangable, but the first and the last are, as I think. STA, f.e is not as accurate, as they say. Tests giving you dichotmious choisses are not so valid. So I can't find out my true type. I'm not living a life as normal as I should.

[SFVB]

The last saying seems to be close to truth. At least, I often wondered how rationals strive for completing what they have started, even when the business is no more worth completion.

This is all too true. I find myself completing things that have already become irrelevent all too often, and I know that rational sensing types are even worse. The same can be said for relationships and closure, and the difficulty that exists in relationships between irrational types and rational types. The rational will always want to finish the argument or discussion, well after the irrational type had moved on, which is a large cause of trouble within these types of relationships.

[eunice]

By a Si-ISFp public figure which most of you here are unfamiliar with.

-People are like rubber bands:They need to be stretched to be effective!

-Learning what you cannot do is more important than knowing what you can do!

-The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything

-Encouragement is the oxygen to our soul!

-Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today!

-Life is like a taxi. The meter just keeps ticking whether you are getting somewhere or just standing still! So… remember to do something useful and beneficial everyday!

-Success isn’t something you chase. Its something you have put forth the effort for constantly. Then, maybe it’ll come when you least expect it.

-For things to change, I must change first!

-Favorite quote: “At the end, its not the years in your life that counts. Its the life in your years.”
Abraham Lincoln

-If you don’t treasure what you have now, you will regret when it’s gone because time will never turn back!

-He who has health has hope; and he who has hope, has everything!

-It’s pointless to keep thinking of the sad memories. Let bygones be bygones… so STOP THINKING OF IT because it’s only you who choose whether you want a happy or sad life. I want you to be happy and I know you can achieve that!

-Never Give Up...Keep On Fighting!!!

-To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived well. This mean you have succeed in life.

-To be successful in life, we must neither underestimate nor overestimate our own abilities! Keep on trying....

-Care more than others, but think wise. Risk more than others, but think safe. Dream more than others, but think practical. Expect more than others, but think possible.

-5 New Year Resolutions:
I will live below my means.
I will not put off my dreams any longer.
I will improve my knowledge of my line of work.
I will do something out of the ordinary.
I will treat my body better than before.

-The past is over and cannot be changed. Today is the future i created yesterday and the future is where we are going to be! GO GO GO for the year 2008 :-)

-A Good Habit to share – Ever since 15 years old, I have the habit of switching the TV on to CNN channel whenever I wake up. I think my father influenced me because he was always the one asking me to read the papers and learn more about what’s happening around this world! Well… I have to admit I am lazy when it comes to reading the papers so to solve the problem, WATCH CNN :-) What I have learnt all these while which I really like to share with you guys: Being aware of news around the world not only keeps us well informed about what’s going on but also teaches us so many things never could we imagine. I guess the reason that why I am optimistic in life is because I have watched too many unbelievable things going on around us and these include natural disasters, war, tragic accidents, murder to name a few! Imagine how all of these could influence the life of so many people! Therefore, we should really treasure everything we have now and BE CONTENTED!

-Hardship is a challenge in life but it’s an experience whether you fail or succeed… The results are just results perceived by others but who cares! Most importantly, you did your best, right?

-The past has no power over me. I am Renewed, Refreshed, and Reborn into a ‘Yummy’ new world.

-If there is anything better than being loved, it is loving. So remember, Open your heart and be generous in giving out love to your surroundings!

-The beginning of all things are small. Be BRAVE enough to take the first step and you will make it big!

-JUST DO IT! If you made a mistake, SO WHAT? Just remember to learn from mistake and do it better the next time…ok!

-The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the most of everything that comes along their way.

-You may be disappointed if you fail but you are doomed if you don’t try.

-To Believe in Oneself and never let anyone try to take you down or discourage you!

-The More u love what u doing, the more successful it will be for u

-Reminder- 1)Drink more water and eat more fruits 2)Smile more and treasure your love ones

-Try to have fun in everything you do. Hapiness begins with a smile. And becoming what you want starts with doing it!

If these are not considered Alpha, I need to relearn my basics in classical Socionics.

Share more Alpha quotes which you know! =)

[cracka]

"dude."
"dude?"
"dude!"


I say this because I do this ALL the time... they practically made Bud Light commercials about me...lol

[hellothere]

2. To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to leave the world a better place; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This means that in life you have succeeded.

respect.

[eunice]

I like these, eunice:

1. Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.

2. To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to leave the world a better place; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This means that in life you have succeeded.

They are my mottos on life. Carpe diem, "dude".

Yeah, that's why I love Alpha types. They always say the most amazing things which inspire me. I wish I can live in a place with an Alpha culture.

[eunice]

ISFp's can be kinda of quiet and sad from what I've seen...

You are probably referring to a Ne-INFj (at least that was what two Fe-ISFps used to remark about me even though I am not necessarily feeling this way. ). ISFp's general demeanor is anything but quiet and sad.

As for why I think he is ISFp>ESFj,

-Learning what you cannot do is more important than knowing what you can do!

-To be successful in life, we must neither underestimate nor overestimate our own abilities! Keep on trying....

-The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything

-JUST DO IT! If you made a mistake, SO WHAT? Just remember to learn from mistake and do it better the next time…ok!

-The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the most of everything that comes along their way.

-A Good Habit to share – Ever since 15 years old, I have the habit of switching the TV on to CNN channel whenever I wake up. I think my father influenced me because he was always the one asking me to read the papers and learn more about what’s happening around this world! Well… I have to admit I am lazy when it comes to reading the papers so to solve the problem, WATCH CNN :-) What I have learnt all these while which I really like to share with you guys: Being aware of news around the world not only keeps us well informed about what’s going on but also teaches us so many things never could we imagine. I guess the reason that why I am optimistic in life is because I have watched too many unbelievable things going on around us and these include natural disasters, war, tragic accidents, murder to name a few! Imagine how all of these could influence the life of so many people! Therefore, we should really treasure everything we have now and BE CONTENTED!

Negativist>Positivist, especially the first two quotes.

[eunice]

But this person seems pretty enthusiastic.

All types with Fe in the ego block are enthusiastic imo.

[Mediator Kam]

You are probably referring to a Ne-INFj (at least that was what two Fe-ISFps used to remark about me even though I am not necessarily feeling this way. ). ISFp's general demeanor is anything but quiet and sad.

We're a bit shallow when it comes to comes down to it.

ISFp's can be sad as much as any other type, though we always want to keep a happy or neutral face to the general public, mostly a happy face. Only with our friends do we ever seem sad or angry, but I have been caught being sad in front of the general public in recent times.

But really, you wouldn't catch me dead saying this kind of stuff, only if I was in a super serious life-or-death situation.

Edit: Now that I think of it, I'm rarely the definition of "happy", I kinda try to use my even when I feel down inside.
We're too confusing emotionally.

[eunice]

It's wu zun...

Yes.. he owns a Impreza WRC so he must be my dual...

lol.

Do you have any videos of this person?

I want to check it out.

Maybe my idea of enthusiastic is a bit stronger!

IP>EJ.....

[eunice]

Another video of an "enthusiastic" Fe-ISFp (A-Chord). You don't have to understand what he is saying. Just observe his tone of voice and body language.



He is the lead singer of this band.....


That is my impression of ISFps.

[eunice]

It's cuz too many of his quotes were from other people, I think.. I have to get to his own personal thoughts to understand him.

The quotes are snippets from his personal blog.

url of blog: http://www.wretch.cc/blog/wuchun10cool

[eunice]

Yea I already read the blog, actually I know of him.. he has a Impreza WRC after all. We are compatriots in arms..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zUaFMYpc

get in the kitchen ISFp!

lol. I watched that episode on cable! And he won me over with his deep concentration.

[Suomea]

"dude."
"dude?"
"dude!"


I say this because I do this ALL the time... they practically made Bud Light commercials about me...lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyMSSe7cOvA

Hehe.... I would love hanging out with that guy. I think I should just live in a beer commercial.

[eunice]

The person sounds more ESE..

I read more about him and watched his interview. On hindsight, you are right. ESFj for sure.

[Charismatik]

ISFp's can be sad as much as any other type, though we always want to keep a happy or neutral face to the general public, mostly a happy face. Only with our friends do we ever seem sad or angry, but I have been caught being sad in front of the general public in recent times.

But really, you wouldn't catch me dead saying this kind of stuff, only if I was in a super serious life-or-death situation.

Edit: Now that I think of it, I'm rarely the definition of "happy", I kinda try to use my even when I feel down inside.
We're too confusing emotionally.

I strongly second all of this. Very, very true.

[Mediator Kam]

More quotes:

"Life is meant to be enjoyed."

"If people look at you and judge on the lack of make-up you have, what kinds of people are we dealing with???"

"A true man will judge a girl not on her face, but her heart, a man who does otherwise is weak at mind."

"It just seems like things gets worse because when we actually place effort into something, the results do not come immediately."

"When I made a goofy joke - tryed to make them laugh - they just stared at me blankly. I wanted to cry."

As I said, a couple of these are mine, and they were written in super situations when someone I was talking to was having horrible self-esteem problems.

[eunice]

I did a picture in honor of my Impreza compatriot. This is the closest I've ever been to a WRC Impreza...

Is it very expensive? That's a really beautiful car. Not that I know anything about cars.

(On a side note, about his type. If he is not Si-ESFj, Si-ESTj is the next possibility despite his facial features. Why did I even think of ISFp in the first place? )

More quotes:

"Life is meant to be enjoyed."

"It just seems like things gets worse because when we actually place effort into something, the results do not come immediately."

"When I made a goofy joke - tryed to make them laugh - they just stared at me blankly. I wanted to cry."

I love these quotes!

Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself.

If there existed no external means for dimming their consciences, one-half of the men would at once shoot themselves, because to live contrary to one's reason is a most intolerable state, and all men of our time are in such a state.

If you want to be happy, be.

In the name of God, stop a moment, cease your work, look around you.

It is amazing how complete is the delusion that beauty is goodness.

Music is the shorthand of emotion.

The changes in our life must come from the impossibility to live otherwise than according to the demands of our conscience not from our mental resolution to try a new form of life.

To say that a work of art is good, but incomprehensible to the majority of men, is the same as saying of some kind of food that it is very good but that most people can't eat it.

and these ones too.

[cracka]

I think we should make Eunice an honourary Alpha member - if only for his appreciation of ISFps

I fully agree. Though, I think she appreciates ESE's too... so I'm basing my opinion on that.