Are ENFps just fakes?
Are enfps just fakes? enfps work really hard and suck up completely trying to get people to like them. its kinda disgusting
because you know they are not being real just trying to manipulate people into liking them. you can't get honest opinion outta them. esfps and sensory types think enfps are great but I + N people are annoyed by you. please stop annoying us, just be truthful.
we know you have good intentionsbut we are sick of enfps constantly trying to be sweet.
ENFP - Ethical Subtype.
In touch with semireality.
Re: Enfps fake?
You're talking about the "shadow" of ENFps. There are ENFPs out there who are actors in the real life, but, of course, not all of them are that way. Some of them want to get attention by pleasing people, thats why they might not say what they think. INFjs sometimes behave the same way. Personally, I like truthfullness and I'm trying to tell about my own opinions and listen to the opinions of others, but many people can't accept this. I can't stand secrecy and someone being sweet all the time (I agree you in this. Some harshness is needed, otherwise one turns into sugar.) Well, I'm sure (we) ENFps have good intentions, but sometimes they go over the top. No one is perfect. I can't speak for other ENFps and can''t promise anything.Originally Posted by yourfriend
Are enfps just fakes? enfps work really hard and suck up completely trying to get people to like them. its kinda disgusting
because you know they are not being real just trying to manipulate people into liking them. you can't get honest opinion outta them. esfps and sensory types think enfps are great but I + N people are annoyed by you. please stop annoying us, just be truthful.
we know you have good intentions
ENFP
Prove that you're not just trolling.Are enfps just fakes? enfps work really hard and suck up completely trying to get people to like them. its kinda disgusting because you know they are not being real just trying to manipulate people into liking them. you can't get honest opinion outta them. esfps and sensory types think enfps are great but I + N people are annoyed by you. please stop annoying us, just be truthful.
we know you have good intentions Rolling Eyes but we are sick of enfps constantly trying to be sweet.
Type is like a language: in itself it's neutral, but you can say good things with it or bad ones. An example? Some types are able to prioritise others' needs as highly as their own. That's good, for it makes them helpful and dependable, and it's bad, because it makes them meddling busybodies. It depends on the individual. Some are less prone to the negative sides of their type, some more. It also depends on the situation. The same behaviour can be perceived by person A as "helpful" and by person "B" as "meddling". Who's to decide?
Socionics, the MBTI and similar typologies help us move beyond such simplistic good/bad-stereotypes. They help us see that certain behavioural patterns exist, and that in itself those patterns are neither "good" nor "evil", but neutral. Mistaking the "unhealthy" manifestation of certain character traits for the character trait itself (=saying things like "ISFJs are meddling busybodies") is a very natural mistake to make, but it's also prejudiced, divisive and immature.
Re: Enfps fake?
NO!Are enfps just fakes? enfps work really hard and suck up completely trying to get people to like them. its kinda disgusting
because you know they are not being real just trying to manipulate people into liking them. you can't get honest opinion outta them. esfps and sensory types think enfps are great but I + N people are annoyed by you. please stop annoying us, just be truthful.
we know you have good intentions
You got it wrong... the ILEs are the fakes!! The IEEs are 100% genuine.
Aw, I love you guys! (No, really!!) Hehe
ENFP - Ethical Subtype.
In touch with semireality.
The best thing is that the guy actually has the nerve to post as "yourfriend". Perhaps he means "friend" as in "with such friends, who needs enemies?" *snort*
...yesyes, I know, lightening up already...
I think we are diplomatic, but not fake. We just present the truth in a nice way. It's still the truth.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Re: Enfps fake?
Are you saying that i'm fake, or that i'm not ENTp? Or maybe you're a troll?
Good question. After all, we are N people too. Are we annoyed by us?
Well, ehm, sometimes, I guess... :wink:Good question. After all, we are N people too. Are we annoyed by us?
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Re: Enfps fake?
*sigh*
Are you saying that i'm fake, or that i'm not ENTp? Or maybe you're a troll?
I don't want to start "Type Wars" here. And I don't like to pigeon hole any types... so don't look at it that way. Just because I said ILEs are fakes doesn't mean that I think ALL ILEs are fakes. I think some SLEs are fakes, too. I just pointed that out because the IEE types always seem to be honest and genuine. He might have been confusing some of these "goody-goody" ILEs that I have met for IEEs. These are the ultimate suck-ups... and possibaly could have been conused for an ethical type. On my Highschool baseball team there were three ILE guys, and all three of them were considered suck-ups to the coaches... and everyone else looked down on them for being "fake". Come to think of it, there was also one SLE who had the same reputation. So I'm not claiming that if you are an ILE then you have to be a fake, just that I think the original guest was confusing the types.
Speaking for myself, I try to be frank but tactful, espcially around friends and family. I do like to give compliments to others but I dont feel compelled to do so. I only do it when I feel like it. By being more selective of when I give compliments others have come to respect my opinions more. So ironically I get more approval by not seeking it. I think learning how to be yourself is just part of growing up. Everybody has to grow up and you cant do it all at once. It takes time so we all need to be sympathetic towards one another as we mature.
topaz
I hate it when I froget to sign inSpeaking for myself, I try to be frank but tactful, espcially around friends and family. I do like to give compliments to others but I dont feel compelled to do so. I only do it when I feel like it. By being more selective of when I give compliments others have come to respect my opinions more. So ironically I get more approval by not seeking it. I think learning how to be yourself is just part of growing up. Everybody has to grow up and you cant do it all at once. It takes time so we all need to be sympathetic towards one another as we mature.
topaz
Topaz
I like most enfp's. Sometimes, though, in life I've seen them make a person feel special . . . only for the person to realize that they do that to everybody, and so they really are not so special to the enfp. I could see how some people could feel a little er betrayed by this.
I don't think they are trying to be fake though. It's just how they are, for real.
Entp
ILE
So true. IEE is vulnerable to this kind of misunderstanding. Thats why I have to put on the breaks when it comes to giving out compliments and attention. If anything, not saying 'nice' things is more difficult. Its also very difficult for me to look at someone without smiling. I dont know how people can walk around and not at least aknowledge other humans.
Topaz
Why is this so offensive exactly?
I'm not the one who posed the question but . . . unfortunately, all the types have to take it on the chin on this forum, at least a little. It's part of the learning and growth process, which is why I'm here, anyway. Listen to all the nasty stuff that's get said about entp's or intj's or intp's or estp's etc etc etc.
Enquiring minds want to know why certain types behave as they do!!
Entp
ILE
I want people to like me, who wants to be disliked. I don't go overboard in trying to make a person like me ( except if you are an attractive female). If you think i am fake that doesn't bother me because i know i am not. I think there are people that hate to see you happy so they try to say something to ruin your joy. If you're one of those people that is like that i just try to be formal with you and won't even try to smile because i don't like you and could care less what you feel about me.
I'm guilty of this, I'm afraid. But Kim is right, I realy did think they were special. But yeah... I get shallow more than fake.
And I like the fact this post exists. Us ENFPs get a lot of compliments, it's nice to see the negative aspects, whether they be real or imagined.
ENFP - Ethical Subtype.
In touch with semireality.
first off, i agree w/ this entry, sums up how i feel pretty good
second, ouch, nice question yourfriend, it burns
i like to make people happy, plus i like to be liked, i cant stand being disliked by anyone. some people probably think that im sucking up to them, but really, i just dont like it when people dont like me. honestly, i dont suck up, nothing bothers me more than a suck up, i just like talking to all kinds of different people and making them happy. when i give a person a compliment, its genuine, its really something good that i appreciate about you. some people dont think im genuine but honestly, ive liked about everyone ive had a chance to sit down and talk to, there are some people i dont like, but i can usually appreciate where they are coming from so i understand them.
so anyways to answer your question, maybe the enfp's you have met really mean all that nice stuff they say, and just because you cant understand it, i dont think thats any reason to hate them for it
Last edited by silke; 01-24-2014 at 03:34 AM. Reason: edited out spam link
implied wrote:
(isn't that somewhere on maslow's hierarchy of needs?)
Yes it is on the Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Everyone wants to be liked, it's one of the human's most natural needs.
He may have a point.. the thread starter.
I've had my fair share of experiences with ENFPs, and it aint pretty!
But moving on...
thing.
Oh, do elaborate.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Yeah, I want to know what your experiences with ENFPs are? What's made you bitter about ENFPs? We can take the criticism, we just want to know.
ENFP - Ethical Subtype.
In touch with semireality.
Well, shit. I don't think I could do a relationship with an ENFP. It might kill me. Its to the point where I try to avoid them. But thats like their motivation. Everytime I'm sitting around, and a smile pops up on my face, BAM, they are back again. Everytime something decent happens, out from the shadows they appear. Everytime, all the time, everywhere.. I can't shake them. If you can tell me how to do that, then I'm going to be better off. I will have appreciated the advice.No, it's not quite like that. It rather ties into our emotional neediness. I was with an INTp for years and through many ups (terrific) and downs (very sad for both of us) and what you say rings a few bells. But it's not quite it. I can only speak for myself here and this particular INTp, though. I did not think he is all of a sudden normal when he showed emotions. ENFps appreciate differences and we don't necessarily want to change people. But we need attention and assurance, so that is what we are after (and sometimes desperately so). We love the outpouring dude because it makes us feel that we can be trusted enough and that we are loved. It does not make you normal, but it shows us a side of you that we are comfortable with (your emotions) rather than the other side that puzzles us (your emotional detachment). And keep in mind that we tend to things personal: You switch back into neutral and I think "what?? What did I do now?"You see, at the end of the day the ENFP is an idealist, and all the time they know you they secretly want to, or try to, change you into who they think you could be. "They just want whats best for you." And when they see the outpouring, dude, its like heaven for them. They start thinking, finally, this person is becoming normal; finally, we can connect and live happily ever after. This makes your return to normal an ever bigger crash for them than you originally believed. AGH!
At some point in that thread you say that you don't want an ENFp's emotional attention. Well, sorry, but that comes with the territory. If I like you, I give you attention. I don't like your non-attention, but that also comes with the territory. It's all about understanding all that. Don't get involved with an ENFp if you don't like attention.
I had a (mostly) fabulous, trusting and crazy-in-love relationship with said INTp because we talked about all this. I understood that I can't expect all the attention that I need and he understood that had to give more than he would. We met somewhere in the middle. I learned to trust his love and he learned to express his more. But we did not attempt to change each other.
It seems to me as if you might have dealt with a lot of insecure ENFps and that there was not much communication. Well, and the condescending attitude that you show here might be present in real life - tough sh*t to deal with for a type who genuinely wants to like and be liked. I'm sure we can be annoying, but since we are more annoying to an INTp than to an ESFp or INFp, many answers lie in the constellation rather than a particular type's weakness.
This is not to say that we don't have them...
ENFps think everything with me is a fucking joke. They are almost like ESFPs in that at every fricking moment its time to get the quiet guy to lighten up, to open up. Fuck that, I'm not interested right now.
And then when a few go away, they fricking gnaw at you with it, like its some big fucking sacrifice. I don't like your ass, stay the hell away.
heh.
But thats just anger. Relations with ENFps always start out well. Then it decays, for me, after I make the stupid move of "getting to know them." After that, they have expectations. So I don't do that anymore. Having a hard time with school? Thats sucks.
And its always the same response (like, Kim, look at what you just said, compared with what those other people are saying.. almost identical). And it always is non-comparable to what happened to me.
As for the insecurity of ENFPs, you may be right. I'm still in college, they are mostly young.
But to come back from that, I'd just cite the ENFP profs I've had that would subtly grade me down when I didn't interact with them enough. And its worse, because they are grading down my bonus, so "they didn't have to give it to me in the first place." Or when they'd constantly single me out in class, when I walk in a couple minutes late.. "joel, I expected better of you." Like I'm a fucking teacher's pet. Do that to no one else, and I take notice. Or when I'd tell them the truth, and they'd look at me like, "i know you, i know when your lying, i can't believe you just tried to pull that." If it weren't for the fact that I was telling the damn truth, then I would just be annoyed that they are looking at me like they are my freaking parents. Back the freak off! Sometimes I just look at my experiences with the great ENFP, and I just can't believe it. at all.
And like an infomercial..
Your results may vary
PS: Your last paragraph: ha! Maybe I should respond to that one, all by itself, in my next book, "The thieving widows of Arscabbaras." Coming soon to a store near you.
thing.
Oh.. of all things, I don't think ENFPs are fake. Or stupid. Or heartless. Or any of the things they'd always accuse me of thinking. What I think, I've just stated. What I thought of them, I would state. There would be no secret. Yet it is always questionable what they (the ENFP) would hear after I lay out the situation, from my vantage point.
thing.
1. Telling them to go away results in an ESFP response. Like you are cheering them on. Maybe I need to work on my yelling skills.Oh, well, tell them that and they will stay away. This is actually pretty funny...And then when a few go away, they fricking gnaw at you with it, like its some big fucking sacrifice. I don't like your ass, stay the hell away.I apologize for my overeager ENFp brothers and sisters. They will grow out of it.
Well, what should I say? That is my response based on me being an ENFp and knowing some INTPs. High school and college messes with people's social skills anyway.And its always the same response (like, Kim, look at what you just said, compared with what those other people are saying.. almost identical). And it always is non-comparable to what happened to me.
It surely sounds like it.As for the insecurity of ENFPs, you may be right. I'm still in college, they are mostly young.
Well, this is actually quite ironic because I have never put a student on the spot and I never grade student participation as not to punish personality. So cut us some slack here, ok?But to come back from that, I'd just cite the ENFP profs I've had that would subtly grade me down when I didn't interact with them enough. And its worse, because they are grading down my bonus, so "they didn't have to give it to me in the first place." Or when they'd constantly single me out in class, when I walk in a couple minutes late.. "joel, I expected better of you." Like I'm a fucking teacher's pet. Do that to no one else, and I take notice. Or when I'd tell them the truth, and they'd look at me like, "i know you, i know when your lying, i can't believe you just tried to pull that." If it weren't for the fact that I was telling the damn truth, then I would just be annoyed that they are looking at me like they are my freaking parents. Back the freak off! Sometimes I just look at my experiences with the great ENFP, and I just can't believe it. at all.
I have an ENFp professor who I find very annoying, however, so I can relate to what you say. Still, we are not all like that.
Ah, come on, get over yourself. This rant sounds more like midterm burnout than anything else. Chill, dude, ENFps might be annoying (I can see it, not to worry), but if they annoy you to the point of rage, you might want to engange in some self-reflection...PS: Your last paragraph: ha! Maybe I should respond to that one, all by itself, in my next book, "The thieving widows of Arscabbaras." Coming soon to a store near you.
2. I'm pointing out how consistent you all are, response-wise. Same stuff, no matter where, who, or when.
3. To the point of rage? Not usually. Thinking about it does make me annoyed. How could people behave in the fashion!? I suppose thats a common question.
3.a Refer to point 1. That digs at me, at the time its happening, to the point of rage. And the yelling gets worse, and my seriousness gets most distinct and recognizable (like I'm ever joking), but no dice. I'm not sure, but I think they may be getting off on me being riled up, but when I react to the situation calmly, as is normal for me, the result is even worse. heh. Asking for anything rarely results in its occurence. Its almost like I'm going to have to make this shit happen, so I can alleviate my headache some. Thankfully, i don't have to deal with "ENFPs" on a daily basis now, so what I've said to this point is all linked to the past, and not the current times. I've made this clear implicitly, and here, explicitly.
3.c What do I want you to say? nothing. I don't need feedback, in the normal sense. Actually, the last few posts have been going a distance to answer y'all's questions, what with wanting to know about my experiences, and all.
4. Midterm burnout is real, but this is like a message tagged to those experiences I've had. Ask me, at any point in time, and I'll say this same stuff. I'm pretty good now.. up late studying for an exam tommorow.. but reading over those posts I linked you to, and remembering the experiences that drove that writing, brings my mental back to that same state, and I experience it all extremely vividly, down to the very mood of the people around me at the time.
x. What makes you sure you aren't putting your students on the spot? Because I'm not shy, so when the profs piss me off, I walk my butt straight to their office, and let them know. And they always deny it, push it aside, neglect to deal with it, etc.. "I think you are blowing things way out of proportions." And I'd believe them too, if it weren't for the blatantness of it. heh.
You keep telling me to get over myself. Your last paragraph always gets under my skin. so again, "ha!" -- it is reflection that has brought me here.
thing.
Heh. I need to figure out what I did here, cuz it seems to have you ready to leave. Your suggestion is where I began, as I've said, and it rippled into something huge. Self fulfilling prophecy, is what people tell me I am about. But shit if ENFPs don't usually think they have the right handle on the situation.. and shit, if I don't think I always end up being correct. I'm watching. Checking my prediction. At all times. Always making sure. This is what I do.
What would I rather hear? nothing. Went ahead and elaborated on that already.
Then don't read them!?!? How are you not missing the point? What? What in the hell!? WTF? What!?!?!?!?!? heh.
I'm glad your not prodding at the INTPs you have a connection with. Wish I had it like that.
I'm not here for advice, Kim. Its not your responsibility to advise me. If you don't, then I won't be offended. If I posted those links, and they were ignored, my day would've been no worse. If you read them, thought they were garbage, and didn't respond, no worse for me. If you threw it in my face, your thoughts, excellent! So sweet it would be to know the actual beliefs that I interact with. To know what thought or cloud of reasoning is held in mind when dealing with my sorry ass. Because surely then I'd be done with this problem. You could say people, I could say its the beliefs that drive, you could say people are what they believe, and we'd be arguing over synonyms. But thats not what this is.
Can't leave me alone? Yes. Pathetically happy? 50% of the time. Sorry? no. We will do it again? Yes. This I already know. This is what I've said here today. Why would I want you to tell me that? You think it would make me _feel_ better? Why would it do that!? What would make me feel better is a solution, but shit if I'm going to repeat myself again.
This is a train of thought, I sound angry, and if I am, then not really at you. If you'd like to think I am, then thats cool. I can do anger.
Man. I can't believe this. Word-for-word. Cookbook. ALWAYS THE SAME.
thing.
MySaviour, it's hard to understand what exactly you want from us. You seem ready to discuss the matter objectively, even saying that perhaps your bad experiences with ENFPs were due to the fact that the ENFPs you know were young and immature... but then you go and say tetchy, categorically negative things about all ENFPs in general. You've got the air of someone who's been dragged into a cave by his hair only to be empathized with (yuck!) and befriended (ARGH!) by ENFPs who simply WILL NOT STAY AWAY.
This is not a textbook example of laid-back objectivity.
All Kim did was try and explain why ENFPs do the things they do. You went into this with open eyes and could have stopped it any time you liked. If you didn't, then that's your own area of responsibility. [/i]
I think you need to lighten up a bit.
Hehhehehehe.
Seriously though, we all have our negatives. You & ENFPs aren't compatible. Perhaps I'm different, but I don't hang around people who don't like me. So perhaps you're not being clear.
You blame us for being needy, but I don't *need* from people with no desire to *give*.
ENFP - Ethical Subtype.
In touch with semireality.
You are reading too much into all this. It did not ripple into anything huge anywhere. The bottom line of what I said was "you might have run into immature and insecure ENFps." You probably fascinate them for some odd reason. End of story. I'm just trying to have a conversation, that's all. I surely am not breaking glass over this.Heh. I need to figure out what I did here, cuz it seems to have you ready to leave. Your suggestion is where I began, as I've said, and it rippled into something huge. Self fulfilling prophecy, is what people tell me I am about. But shit if ENFPs don't usually think they have the right handle on the situation.. and shit, if I don't think I always end up being correct. I'm watching. Checking my prediction. At all times. Always making sure. This is what I do.
Joel just cannot communiate clearly what the hell it is he wants to communicate. But it's the ENFp's fault, of course. Yeah, roll your eyes at it, it's ok.Then Kim responded. Then I state why I think she's wrong. Then she attempts to (as far as I can see) relate to my experiences, and makes suggestions. Then I respond saying that I've tried what advice she has given, and it hasn't worked. Then she starts repeating herself. Then I get annoyed, at the quandry I put myself in. Then come schr's cat, saying the same thing.
Then out goes Joel, for the morning, wondering where the hell he wasn't clear.
Interestingly enough, now that I thought about my INTP ex a little bit in light of all this, we hated each other when we first met. He was a condescending, arrogant, oh-so-smart asshole (sound familiar?). He thought I was a shallow little kid. When we actually started to listen to each other, it opened an entire new world. So when you grow up and get over your "I'm so deep and serious and wanna do what the fuck I want, to hell with people who care about me" and they get out of their "oh, he is so serious, I hope he likes me. I will cheer him up" phase, you might actually experience a connection. Until then, just stay the hell away. There you have my thoughts.I'm glad your not prodding at the INTPs you have a connection with. Wish I had it like that.
Precisely.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Ok, Kim. The last word is yours.You are reading too much into all this. It did not ripple into anything huge anywhere. The bottom line of what I said was "you might have run into immature and insecure ENFps." You probably fascinate them for some odd reason. End of story. I'm just trying to have a conversation, that's all. I surely am not breaking glass over this.Heh. I need to figure out what I did here, cuz it seems to have you ready to leave. Your suggestion is where I began, as I've said, and it rippled into something huge. Self fulfilling prophecy, is what people tell me I am about. But shit if ENFPs don't usually think they have the right handle on the situation.. and shit, if I don't think I always end up being correct. I'm watching. Checking my prediction. At all times. Always making sure. This is what I do.
Joel just cannot communiate clearly what the hell it is he wants to communicate. But it's the ENFp's fault, of course. Yeah, roll your eyes at it, it's ok.Then Kim responded. Then I state why I think she's wrong. Then she attempts to (as far as I can see) relate to my experiences, and makes suggestions. Then I respond saying that I've tried what advice she has given, and it hasn't worked. Then she starts repeating herself. Then I get annoyed, at the quandry I put myself in. Then come schr's cat, saying the same thing.
Then out goes Joel, for the morning, wondering where the hell he wasn't clear.
Interestingly enough, now that I thought about my INTP ex a little bit in light of all this, we hated each other when we first met. He was a condescending, arrogant, oh-so-smart asshole (sound familiar?). He thought I was a shallow little kid. When we actually started to listen to each other, it opened an entire new world. So when you grow up and get over your "I'm so deep and serious and wanna do what the fuck I want, to hell with people who care about me" and they get out of their "oh, he is so serious, I hope he likes me. I will cheer him up" phase, you might actually experience a connection. Until then, just stay the hell away. There you have my thoughts.I'm glad your not prodding at the INTPs you have a connection with. Wish I had it like that.
Precisely.
thing.
Oh.. I see. I'll continue, then.
The problem I have with some ENFPs is that they won't leave me alone. As in, I can't shake them. To this point, I have tried everything I can think of. Your suggestion, "'Hey, listen, I really need some alone time here. Do you know how that is (ENFps know)? I'd really appreciate it if you could leave me alone.' Ever tried it?" is among the aforementioned pool of things I've tried, to this point. And, again, nothing has worked. This is the main misdealing I've had with ENFPs, to directly answer the two poking questions asked to me concerning my poor experiences with ENFPs.
Furthermore, I am fond of neither the nature of my interactions with ENFPs, nor their implicit expectations, once a "connection" has been made. If not for the fact that an expectation comes across to me like an obligation I would never be able to keep, then for the simple reason that I probably was not out to make any connections.
ENFPs tend to be quick to believe there is a form of connection between them and myself, and ENFPs also tend to quickly conclude that they have effected some form of change within me. In itself, the belief that they have changed me is harmless, but when coupled with the expectation of newness (though completely unfounded), the belief results in an amplification of the reality that's on the verge of revealing itself. Essentially, what I see is dissapointment within ENFPs linked to myself, and to something I've not done, as they grew to "expect better of me." I, personally, am not a big fan of dissapointing people, so, should I see a situation in which people could go away sulking, I do my best to not take on what I don't feel comfortable doing, and instead fall back to my area of experise and creativity. I don't pretend I know this interpersonal shit, I don't pretend to be nice, but sure as the sun shines, I haven't yet gone out of my way to ruin someone's day. If my general nature causes someone's grievance, then that I'll be able to live with, but the introduction of unecessary long term pain for a moment's happiness, ON MY BEHALF EVEN, I have serious problems understanding, agreeing with, or living with. Worse is that, at times, I'd never hear of the things I've "done" to someone until long after the time I would be able to defend myself. Heh, to be clear, I put done in quotations, because I didn't do really do anything.. imaginations just ran wild, or something.
Many bonds that are formed between myself and others become weathered and worn out simple because I don't notice them. That is, someone became strongly attached to me, while I, as normal, couldn't care any less. It happens. Should a mutual bond form, then surely I put effort into keeping it alive. But, seriously, how much effort is really needed to upkeep a relation? A noticeable amount, I could agree, but surely it shouldn't be exhaustive; especially since I am not, myself, being energized by, or kept happy, by said bonds.
In real life, I'd be called quiet, or weird, or intelligent, or disciplined far long, and far many times, before there would be a degradation to "condescending," "oh-so-smart," and "ass-hole." There have been moments where people would say I was mean, but after looking at it (and sure as hell prodding to see why the hell they said that), it ended being--strange enough--some form of repressed jealousy. Of what, I'm not sure. I always believed that if I made that last statement to anyone but the parties involved in its formulation, then it would be said that I was full of myself.. but since that's a non-issue here, why the hell not.
The consistency of your belief that I want to "hear" something coupled with its horizontal spread among ENFPs I've talked to also causes issue with me. Quite simply put, there is nothing I would like to hear. Less relevant, but related, is my utter disgust when I am in the generally vicinity of two people mushing over each other because of their problems.. "oh--thats soooo sad.. here, a muffin, that should comfort you, make you feel better." I've had problems, and when that type of approach was taken in trying to "help" me through, I ended up more irritated than "consoled." If there is something bothering me, I want a solution, I want to be rid of the pesterance, I'd prefer to not simply "cope." At what point during this statement do things become unclear? I seriously don't see any ambiguity.
"Then don't read them."
In telling me to not read the posts I linked you to, because I become vividly reminded of why I wrote them, you make clear to me that you didn't quite get what I said. I'll restate: When I began writing my initial response to you, I was not angry, aggravated, or annoyed. Luckily my issue with ENFPs is not current, but stored within the past. As I wrote my response, rehashing my experiences for you all to read, I began to remember the many intricacies of each moment, and the linked emotion, and I used that vibe to augment the accuracy of what I was saying. More to the point, I was saying that you didn't have to tell me to "Chill, dude," as I was quite fine to begin with.
"it is reflection that has brought me here."
Reflection did urge me on to write those posts. To not believe this is just not acceptable. Thinking on what has happened in my life thus far, how it brought me here, and how my actions now will push forward into a future is my 24/7. Telling me that I need to go sit in a corner and think about what I'm saying is just plain insulting. Especially since it was after sitting in a corner, thinking about my experiences, and then gauging my conclusions against reality that I came to have words to "share." To ensure that I am being clear, my feeling insulted was nothing more than a passing realization.. I'm putting it across for the sake of completeness.
"You've got the air of someone who's been dragged into a cave by his hair only to be empathized with (yuck!) and befriended (ARGH!) by ENFPs who simply WILL NOT STAY AWAY."
Yes, for you its comical that I take offense to, and am annoyed by the "empathy" and "befriending" on the part of ENFPs.. but I am serious. Empathy is nice, and so is having people that want to be friends with you, but there is a definite cost, to me, associated with accepting these things from ENFPs. It all ties into expectation, and dissapointment. Should I ever become dependent upon these two forms of support, I'm sure I could get them elsewhere, and with less drain on myself..
As for explanations for the true motives behind the actions of ENFPs (since you all imply that I am off), I would love to hear them. A foray into the mental state, so I don't have to keep going on situations and experiences and reading between the lines, would be absolutely wonderful. Why don't you all share something, of yourselves, so there can be some real information processing? I mean.. I heard a sentence of truth from an ENFP once, but it came after an exhaustive quarrel. If thats what I have to do to hear what is really going on, then its just not worth it, man! How about you deliver it as easy as you'd put across your "niceness," so I can start enjoying an ENFPs company, rather than trying to figure out how to get them the freak away from me.
"You blame us for being needy, but I don't *need* from people with no desire to *give*."
You sure don't! But I always make clear that I'm not going to give anything back, if they choose to give-give-give to me, but the statements never seem to register. They'd give-give-give anyway, and then expect-expect-expect-expect-expect-expect back. I have problems with this. That is, if I make clear that you shouldn't give to me with the hope of getting a return AND its obvious that I am serious about this AND you can't give without expecting something back, then surely I shouldn't be getting anything from you. Sounds fairly straightforward. Never happens. See, I take issue with the neediness of ENFPs when they begin to seek me out for satisfaction, as I've made it clear that I don't want to do anything to help them out, AND that I'm willing to live with the cost.. of not helping.
"It did not ripple into anything huge anywhere."
What rippled into something huge was my annoyance with ENFPs, not this thread. Heh. "This hasn't gone anywhere," would be my thought concerning this thread. Looking at that sentence again, it really was worded terribly, so I'll digress.
"Joel just cannot communiate clearly what the hell it is he wants to communicate. But it's the ENFp's fault, of course. Yeah, roll your eyes at it, it's ok."
Don't speak for me. There sure isn't any real communication between myself and ENFPs, however, and that I will straight away admit. I did roll my eyes at that sentence. It sounds like an absolutely shitty thing to say. No matter, though. As for my blaming ENFps.. well, thats my whole angle in this thread. But leave my accusations where they were made.. if I want to extend my list of grievances, I'm quite capable of handling the task myself. "Don't go making things up."
For me, ENFP relations start well. True neutral. Its beautiful. Then the beauty erodes away.
thing.
OK Im offically bored with this subject.
End of story.
Topaz
to joelark
dude, u got some serious anger management problems, seems to me like u held some shit in in ur past and now its coming back to haunt you. dont kno what happened, and dont rlly want to kno (im not prying at all, just stating an observation) but it seems to me that you have some issues that you rlly need to deal w/. so you had some bad experiences w/ enfp's in ur past, who hasnt? we can be assholes, but why do you insist on catagorizing all of us from these other experiences?
Last edited by silke; 01-24-2014 at 03:36 AM. Reason: edited out spam link
I think he just wanted to tell us that ENFp behavior is getting on his nerves.
No. You got annoyed at your experiences with ENFPs, which is OK, but the way you put that it sounded not like annoyance with ENFPs in general; it sounded as if you threw it all into Kim's face. She got annoyed at that, and you in turn got annoyed at her for being annoyed... And that's what I found strange. I chose to describe it in a funny way to de-escalate the situation. But I didn't find it funny, I found it odd.
I've read some of the things you posted elsewhere, and what I've read sounds objective, level-headed and fair. In this thread, pretty much anything and everything any ENFP says here seems to remind you of things these other, immature ENFPs said or did, and you react very strongly. From our side of things, talking to you is a bit like running into open fire. That's nothing I personally choose to do.
Yep.. if y'all are still saying I've got anger management issues, among other things, then yes--this thread is done.
thing.
Yeah, wtf? 3-4 posts and the guy is wrecked with horror-movie childhood no life and money ?
http://forum.socionix.com
I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.
EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!
ENFPs
Don't think you have heard anything MySaviour said. Good thing to stop defending and start listening---truth might be there.
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