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Thread: Discusion of Ne PoLR in ISFjs and ISTjs

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    Well augusta originally noted that Ne is about structures and understanding how pieces fit together within a whole form, not necessarily seeing the full form in its use, rather seeing into it, I guess is what she was getting at. Knowing you BlackCat, sometimes when I tend to explain structures of socionics to you, it only becomes clear to you when I give specific "relative" examples. If I were to explain the full structure to you without even explaining the means of that structure, because it is so grandeose so to speak, you might have difficulty realizing the potential of such information being part of a structure, because it comes off as seemingly access, and you only want one aspect of it explained to you at a time. You don't want to hear about all of the seemingly unrelated aspects of it because it just confuses you more.

    This is just an observation that I've seen. This happens to be a very specific explanation, but I thought it might make more sense to you, and you could relate this with every day situations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    Well augusta originally noted that Ne is about structures and understanding how pieces fit together within a whole form, not necessarily seeing the full form in its use, rather seeing into it, I guess is what she was getting at. Knowing you BlackCat, sometimes when I tend to explain structures of socionics to you, it only becomes clear to you when I give specific "relative" examples. If I were to explain the full structure to you without even explaining the means of that structure, because it is so grandeose so to speak, you might have difficulty realizing the potential of such information being part of a structure, because it comes off as seemingly access, and you only want one aspect of it explained to you at a time. You don't want to hear about all of the seemingly unrelated aspects of it because it just confuses you more.

    This is just an observation that I've seen. This happens to be a very specific explanation, but I thought it might make more sense to you, and you could relate this with every day situations.
    Ahh that makes too much sense. So I have a hard time understanding theoretical structures of things unless said things apply to the real world, and even then I need simple explanations. Sounds about right. You do have to back up and explain things to me and give me examples a lot.

    This cleared some stuff up... I can apply that to my life actually. In school when something is unclear about a theory then I'll ask a lot of questions if something is just a little bit unclear because I hate being wrong when it comes to theories.

    But jeez that post made sense.
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    they don't attent astronomy lectures about blackholes and quasars.

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    Since Se is the assessment of objective and measurable traits of all things it considers, it in doing this does not consider what things simply aren't, meaning what they could possibly turn into.

    When the Se ego sees a seed, they do not see all the possible plants it can grow into, do not see all the possible fruit that can be produced. They see the seed, and while in the back of their mind they may vaguely recognize its connection to plants and fruit, they are more naturally disposed to discussing the seed as it is and not the fruit and plant it might be related to, which they consider irrelevant to the discussion of the seed. Now take that analogy and apply it in a broader sense.

    The supposed fear is that the lack of attention paid to latent possibility in lieu of immediate characteristics gives rise to a lack consideration of possible contingencies, giving way to insecurity about what 'might happen' or random occurrence; ultimately why Ni is the compliment of Se as it can predict the most likely and the most potentially catastrophic, allowing the Se ego to plan accordingly.

    At least that's the understanding I have of the matter.

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    Woah. Se can notice the possibilities but only if it has experienced them before. Se doesn't go off into theoretical possibilities, rather what is possible according to the past and the object's/situation's current state. Se feels safe in the realm of known knowns, when there is something it doesn't know or cannot connect to, it is hesitant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ananke View Post
    I agree with this. However, Se is helped by Fi or Ti telling the SXE what pieces of information are missing, and then Se can go and find them. That's how SXEs end up being so damn active (physically and/or mentally). "oh... I just need to check...."
    In my observation it's Ni, not Fi or Ti, which complements Se in this way. It seems more of a subconscious input (not necessarily from others, just something they're aware of) which they're very sensitive to (suggestive) than something strong they actively produce (creative).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ananke View Post
    well, SXEs don't have much Ni, so as a helper to Se, what I wrote is correct, I think. See my example for explanation of what I meant. (Ti is what logically lead to the SLE's understanding that the woman was pregnant, based on Se input)

    Oth, Ni helps, when an SXE is in a rut (when that approach doesn't work anymore.)

    I'm of the opinion that nobody "needs" their dual on a daily basis. Duals are just great in troublesome times, and they relax your weak conscious functions.
    The bolded and what you said earlier about missing pieces is how I see Ni, so we're going to have to disagree on that. To me it seems obviously internal, "black box" kind of thing, not any external reasoning. And it has nothing to do with duality and everything to do with information metabolism, as I understand it.

    It's not about "having" Ni but about a weak subconscious input one doesn't have to be fully aware of; Ni does the exact same thing, except it focuses on these connections all the time without always being able to point out the clues. I think conventional "intuition", "gut feelings", are more of a sign of a weak function than intuitive one. Anyway I've already committed a piece about it here, it's enough for this weak. (And yes, I'm fishing for feedback on that.)

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    I think Ne-polr lets people go insane if there is any kind of ambiguity. If there is something not entirely clear they refuse to cooperate/work according to my experience.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    In the case of my brother, who is ESI so not beta but still Ne polr, it's like he prefers "the devil you know." He has a hard time job hunting, because his job isn't great but at least he has dealt with it and knows he's capable of dealing with it, and he seems to assume the other alternative is being jobless forever and going bankrupt. He stayed in a bad marriage for eons because he didn't know what would happen, how divorce would work, what would happen with his kids, etc. He seemed to assume the other alternative was to never see his kids again and give every penny he earned to his ex-wife. Fair concerns, but they immobilized him. In a way he has a ridiculous ego - but in other ways it's like he sells himself short. He doesn't see that he's capable of dealing with whatever happens. He needs the forecasting ability of Ni to help him see where things are probably headed. My Ne just made him more worried. He didn't want a dozen ideas of where things could possibly go. He can't prepare for a dozen possibilities, and particularly the worst possible one. Now, if he prepares for the one probable (or worst-case) outcome, and something else happens that steers things off course, he is able to adjust to the new most probable outcome, but he prefers that to just mentally preparing for every possible outcome from the get-go. When he was in this awful marriage, I so wanted him to see how wonderful life could be after he was out of it.
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    They have a hard time factoring in multi-faceted thought/approach (to see the problem in many angles before taking action), instead, they use Se to direct action, to get a task done, causing short sightedness that is only good for meeting immediate needs as opposed to factoring in Te, efficiency, to fix or repair something that will be efficient for a long time, hence not conserving Si, energy in the process and using Se to take a lot of inefficient actions. They have a hard time considering possibilities prior to taking actions.

    I'm referencing this with regard to LSI and ESI not SLE or SEE

    In MD's thread I've hilighted the section where he talks about Ne PoLR and how he uses Ne.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-04-2011 at 05:45 AM.
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    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
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    -PoLR is like having a house with no windows or doors.
    Last edited by Timeless; 03-04-2011 at 07:06 AM. Reason: Turkey bacon.

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    Default Ne, Se and some things about Ne-PoLR

    The first section is focused on the interactions between Ne-Base types and Ne-PoLR. Skip to the second section for the information regarding Ne and Se.
    ---

    One facet of Ne-Base vs Ne-PoLR is "the real thing" versus formality. They often come in conflict when the Ne-Base types become suspicious, because Se-Creative truly believes that suspicion has no real base except when it's confirmed, either by confession or proof. They value Ni, where, unlike Ne, either is possible but none is a path to pursue because both are probable - this perfectly matches their agenda. Ni and Se types generally don't take suspicions seriously, they believe that everyone, when he/she points the finger, is just making an allusion with no consequences until something is proven. For Ne-PoLRs, the situation when someone is guilty of something but he/she does not admit is a technically normal situation, usually nothing to do about it. If they feel threatened or need to take action, they don't usually follow the ambiguous clues that made them suspicious - they flatly reject things like "similar", "likely", "this appears to be" - but try to find something else to address the perpetrator (eg breaking some laws, moral stuff, whatever).

    However, both Ne valuers are very different... when something points towards something else than "supposed to", even if slightly, they snap on the inconsistency, something "stinks". Now this smell is an absolute absurdity for Ne-PoLR (imagine someone lacking the sense of smell who needs to see the corpse to believe), while it's rather an absolute certainty for Ne-Base ("if it stinks, then certainly something is rotten!"). In the end a smell is a certainty, even if you're not sure that what caused it is actually the same thing with what you believe to have caused it, and even if someone else doesn't feel it. Ne-Base types distrust formal people, they mock people who try to present themselves as impeccable (which often Se-PoLRs do), the very fact that they try to appear neat is the reason for a suspicion ("why would someone try to do that if he had honest thoughts?").

    Here I'd add a little detail, Ni types also believe that "each has a quirk", even more, IEIs, where Ni is paired with Fe, tend to hold close even more grave assumptions, like "each has a perversity" or a totally discrediting flaw. Where do they differ, why is this Ni actually good for Se and Ne its worst enemy? Because Ni is like a rule of thumb but based on it there's actually nothing to be done, it's just a guideline. In fact Ni always minimizes Ne, it's like "but everyone has potentially that problem" or "it may be or may not be", which even Ne Irrationals types employ (Ignoring) to balance their Base function, otherwise they may become paranoid in certain life circumstances. It's like a theater, everyone has a mask, everyone hides something, probably terrifying or extremely embarrassing, or the other way around - value, beautiful traits, etc. And they're probably right.

    Ne, the Bodies Intuition, does not make such generalizations, actually. Ne does not work without a reason, without a clue, without *something* to base its assumptions on. But when it does, it becomes a path to follow, the premise of a problem. So, once suspected by an Ne-Base type, there's basically no way to make him/her forget it, unless they're clearly shown everything, unless there's total transparency. But this request for transparency is totally rejected by Se-Creatives, they find absurd/ridiculous/despicable/degrading any request to be accounted for what they call "nothing". Because they don't acknowledge these "clues", the action is for them a direct attack on their integrity.
    This information conflict doesn't restrict to the views on one another of people, but also when they try to communicate their views on other things.
    ---

    Ne Irrationals create patterns in their mind, along their life, which then they use to recognize future things/events. For example, if the thief who robbed a bank once said "red one red" one minute before doing it, later if you hear someone in a bank saying "one green one" you will fucking jump on his back immediately. Actually will you? Here comes the dilemma of choosing between Ne and Se: is there any connection between what this guy said and the thief, or not? Because Ne is similarity and Se is identity, you have to choose between them everywhere, in any situation. Obviously, you have to choose what to think, the actions to take are more flexible, you may just get behind the guy, though because of that you may get shot, or whatever, you figure this out.

    All people use Ne and Se. You may look at them as "similarity is an incomplete identity" (necessary) or "identity is an complete similarity" (contingent, we can never be sure whether something is exactly something else based on experience). The necessity of acknowledgment of the similarity makes it become "the real thing" in types/people, while the contingency of the statements "these two things are completely the same" or "this thing is this kind" make the conclusion being rather formal, conventional - not necessarily true, but definitely used as it is.
    - Se is used only on the objects you already know: "this is an apple". An actual apple.
    - Ne is used only on objects you don't already know: "this is like an apple". A fruit you don't know.
    When and if they are used otherwise, they're incorrectly used so, so basically people can't/never do such thing.
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    the way i notice it with my ESI sister is like if something isn't directly connected to the goal/situation at hand, then its pointless. like she sets a path and any alternate ideas or suggestions of other things to take into consideration are ignored because what matters is the path that has been chosen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    the way i notice it with my ESI sister is like if something isn't directly connected to the goal/situation at hand, then its pointless. like she sets a path and any alternate ideas or suggestions of other things to take into consideration are ignored because what matters is the path that has been chosen.
    I love the way you wrote this and it's a great example of that polr.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    the way i notice it with my ESI sister is like if something isn't directly connected to the goal/situation at hand, then its pointless. like she sets a path and any alternate ideas or suggestions of other things to take into consideration are ignored because what matters is the path that has been chosen.
    Yep. This is my mom (also ESI). She gets her mind set on something, and it's not so much that she is unwilling to look at other possibilities but that she is simply incapable. And if other people try to suggest other options, it's like they might as well be speaking a foreign language.
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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    the way i notice it with my ESI sister is like if something isn't directly connected to the goal/situation at hand, then its pointless. like she sets a path and any alternate ideas or suggestions of other things to take into consideration are ignored because what matters is the path that has been chosen.
    yeah, I'm kind of like that. I ignore possibilities that won't directly affect my well-being, realistically speaking... or at least that's what I've heard. I think I just panic inside during a crisis and it's easier to just focus on one problem/solution at a time, much more than that will cause me to second guess myself and other people.

    It helps talking to people and get an outsider's relevant point of view on how things will most likely develop --and that everything won't crumble if I make the wrong move so I can try to relax.

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    In my most aware experience, I often see it as not making silly associations or theorizing options for fun (you kind of have to just know how dominants are and compare them), and it can feel very direct and/or resolute, like they don't want to do any ing around and act opposed and uncomfortable about it. But what it overall it feels like is a lack of active imagination (I don't know if thats the right word, because I think they're just as imaginative as anyone else, but not in the way). I think its cute in some ISFjs, like Ashton says, but I probably don't really understand exactly what he means since I don't really use , but there are some available examples, for instance like Bob Dylan and his writings and understandings.

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    -PoLRs have an obscure sense of humor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Another thing about my mom, that might be related to this...

    Whenever there's something big coming up, that she has invested a lot of herself in, the night before she will have the most crazy, stressful dreams about everything going wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pianosinger View Post
    Another thing about my mom, that might be related to this...

    Whenever there's something big coming up, that she has invested a lot of herself in, the night before she will have the most crazy, stressful dreams about everything going wrong.
    I do this. All of my worries play out in..I'd call it nightmares. And they feel so realistic. ha, that would be interesting if it was type related, doubt it, but...interesting nonetheless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    yeah, I'm kind of like that. I ignore possibilities that won't directly affect my well-being, realistically speaking... or at least that's what I've heard. I think I just panic inside during a crisis and it's easier to just focus on one problem/solution at a time, much more than that will cause me to second guess myself and other people.

    It helps talking to people and get an outsider's relevant point of view on how things will most likely develop --and that everything won't crumble if I make the wrong move so I can try to relax.
    That is not Ne PoLR; Ne PoLR makes a decision without looking at the outside perspective or caring to. That's the impulse of Se. You might ask why or how? but that's just the way it is. If you're looking to get a perspective than you are looking to an Ne type to talk to before you make a decision on something, correct? That would mean you're not LSI
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-05-2011 at 02:43 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    That is not Ne PoLR; Ne PoLR makes a decision without looking at the outside perspective or caring to. That's the impulse of Se. You might as why or how? but that's just the way it is. If you're looking to get a perspective than you are looking to an Ne type to talk to before you make a decision on something, correct? That would mean you're not LSI
    It sounds like -HA instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    That is not Ne PoLR; Ne PoLR makes a decision without looking at the outside perspective or caring to.
    In this situation, maybe it's more related to .

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    In this situation, maybe it's more related to .
    Yeah, ironing out and eliminating all variable or considering all variables before making a decision is definitely related with Te..trying to be efficient, sort of the antithesis of Te.

    I'm beginning now to understand Rick's post on the mathematical paper about Socionics types and how LSE and IEI are at opposite poles.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Yeah, ironing out and eliminating all variable or considering all variables before making a decision is definitely related with Te..trying to be efficient, sort of the antithesis of Te.
    what? do you not know the definition of antithesis?


    Anyways, Maritsa, what I was getting at was that when I ask for an outsider's POV, I don't go to a direct type (lol, no idea how or why you would assume I go to an Ne type), I just ask like-minded individuals who I consider able to give realistic advice.

    I thought that was Ne-polar: dreading too many possibilities. Idk. guess not.

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    I doubt PoLRs are afraid of change or can't handle ambiguity (though everyone hates ambiguity about some things). I haven't seen any trace of these characteristics in ISXjs I've known.

    Further, no ENXj would tolerate a rigidly close-minded person with no imagination whatsoever. Hence, it's unlikely their duals are like that. Why would I want to be with someone so dull and uninspiring…? I would never be able to put up with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
    -PoLR is like having a house with no windows or doors.
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    yeah, I'm kind of like that. I ignore possibilities that won't directly affect my well-being, realistically speaking... or at least that's what I've heard. I think I just panic inside during a crisis and it's easier to just focus on one problem/solution at a time, much more than that will cause me to second guess myself and other people.

    It helps talking to people and get an outsider's relevant point of view on how things will most likely develop --and that everything won't crumble if I make the wrong move so I can try to relax.
    I don't really like possibilities. I just focus on what I want to happen, take account of anything I anticipate could get in my way, and how to prevent it from disrupting what I want.

    Often I get into arguments with people because they have a bad habit of bringing up superfluous 'possibilities' I find annoyingly irrelevant to even consider. Because they're not directed at the root of the issue at hand, or they're suggesting potential events that are extremely unlikely to happen. Which just seems like clutter that clouds up what should be the focus. Or they'll insist that we try something "just so we can be sure" even though I already KNOW it's bullshit and not going to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
    It sounds like -HA instead.
    Well, IMO -HA is saying the same thing as -PoLR, since one necessarily implies the other. In a sense, ISXjs avoid because it's an obstruction to much more desirable . Analogous to how I avoid because I see it as the antithesis of .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I doubt PoLRs are afraid of change or can't handle ambiguity (though everyone hates ambiguity about some things). I haven't seen any trace of these characteristics in ISXjs I've known.

    Further, no ENXj would tolerate a rigidly close-minded person with no imagination whatsoever. Hence, it's unlikely their duals are like that. Why would I want to be with someone so dull and uninspiring…? I would never be able to put up with that.

    I don't really like possibilities. I just focus on what I want to happen, take account of anything I anticipate could get in my way, and how to prevent it from disrupting what I want.
    well i think you saying how you "don't really like possibilities" goes right along with someone who doesn't "handle ambiguity" well. i think your post describes why Ne-Demonstrative (XIE) and Ne-PoLR (XSI) are compatible. the XSI does not handle well the uncertainty that comes with considering all the possible outcomes, but the XIE is aware of the possibilities and will take them into account without losing sight of their path. the XIE deals with what is hard for the XSI to deal with, assuring the XSI, who is good at sticking to and defending the goal. so together in this way, the XIE and XSI eliminate uncertainty of the future while enabling themselves to not lose sight of their goal.

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    Ne PoLRs makes ordinary, common-place things look like black swans. This is something that characterizes the dual couple rather than the type, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    Discuss......
    My Ne PoLR doesn't affect me at all. Of course nothing bad will happen if you plan it out. And why see alternative possibilities when you've already got the best possible means of completing any task? Just be confident that you're totally right and are prepared to deal with any outcome. Everything will go smoothly and work exactly the way it should. Why wouldn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    well i think you saying how you "don't really like possibilities" goes right along with someone who doesn't "handle ambiguity" well.
    Disliking possibilities isn't the same as not handling ambiguity well. Further, none of you are qualifying what you mean when you say " PoLRs can't handle ambiguity well"—what kind of ambiguity in what context are you talking about? Because there are aspects of life nobody likes ambiguity in—for instance, how many of you would be able to handle ambiguity in knowing whether your spouse loves you? Probably not many of you.

    Speaking of which, I should qualify what I meant when I mentioned disliking possibilities. That is to say, I only dislike possibilities when it concerns short-term immediate and particular changes I want to happen or something I desire to remain constant over time (such as a relationship). In anything else more generally and in the long-term, uncertainty is fair game and something I accept as a fundamental condition of life itself; the future on a whole is inherently unpredictable, and I rather like it that way. I find it liberating to not know everything that's going to happen and that's there's ultimately no way to infer bounds on everything that could happen. I'd rather be surprised by life and able to respond to things as they emerge. Chaotic novelty is usually more interesting and satisfying, good or bad.

    i think your post describes why Ne-Demonstrative (XIE) and Ne-PoLR (XSI) are compatible. the XSI does not handle well the uncertainty that comes with considering all the possible outcomes, but the XIE is aware of the possibilities and will take them into account without losing sight of their path. the XIE deals with what is hard for the XSI to deal with, assuring the XSI, who is good at sticking to and defending the goal. so together in this way, the XIE and XSI eliminate uncertainty of the future while enabling themselves to not lose sight of their goal.
    That is likely a good point and applicable within the realm of short-term particular outcomes like I mentioned above. But being uncomfortable with this kind of temporal ambiguity, isn't the same as being uncomfortable with interpretational or conceptual ambiguity such that it imposes the person to think in simplistic absolute black&white terms, with a very limited grasp of nuance and no ability to think in alternate perspectives or in terms of abstract ideas—I see PoLRs get accused of being 1-dimensional simpletons like this all the time on here, and that's what I was arguing against as I sincerely doubt it's true; if it were true, then why for instance does Gulenko class ESIs as multi-perspective thinkers?

    Also, it's worth mentioning that people will differ with regards to what they find ambiguous and what they don't. For example, I find some things about people's feelings to be ambiguous and fuzzily unpredictable things, whereas an average ESI might not so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    It helps talking to people and get an outsider's relevant point of view on how things will most likely develop --and that everything won't crumble if I make the wrong move so I can try to relax.
    that sounds exactly like a female SLE i know.For example,she's like "i'm going to find an appartment just like i want it ,right?" then you go "yeah yeah sure" and she obviously takes this complaisant talking quite seriously.
    honest labor needs no master

    Nothing good is a miracle, nothing lovely is a dream.

    Επί πάντων μέμνησο τα έσχατά σου, και ου μη αμαρτήσης

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    Quote Originally Posted by timewaster View Post
    that sounds exactly like a female SLE i know.For example,she's like "i'm going to find an appartment just like i want it ,right?" then you go "yeah yeah sure" and she obviously takes this complaisant talking quite seriously.
    yeah, yeah, sure.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    ;D

    hey i'm not saying that i'm "smarter" or something! it's just the way it is. plus, she wants to adopt my XEI ,20 yo brother.
    honest labor needs no master

    Nothing good is a miracle, nothing lovely is a dream.

    Επί πάντων μέμνησο τα έσχατά σου, και ου μη αμαρτήσης

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    what? do you not know the definition of antithesis?


    Anyways, Maritsa, what I was getting at was that when I ask for an outsider's POV, I don't go to a direct type (lol, no idea how or why you would assume I go to an Ne type), I just ask like-minded individuals who I consider able to give realistic advice.

    I thought that was Ne-polar: dreading too many possibilities. Idk. guess not.
    Dreading possibilities is not Ne polr; Ne polr is not seeing the possibilities infront of you as you do Se, reach to go for the objective in the immediate time frame/project. This is due to lack of planing. Hence, using Se, running after things like emergencies that have to get done now, because the person didn't anticipate all the various outcomes before acting. Something LSE are very good at. Because LSI have Se, they can take lots of unnecessary actions to accomplish a task, overlooking Te and efficiency as well. And, Ne PoLR of my LSI boss gets to the life of me, than I run towards my dual friend to vent...

    I meant IEI is the antithesis of Te.

    They like theories that are practical, noticeable and workable, realistic, so not being interested in new phenomenon or theory is not really Ne PoLR, but they may have very little interest in creating them or coming up with those ideas; but then, they are very creative as artists, anything real and tangible. This again applies to most S types anyway.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-08-2011 at 04:23 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    well then.
    can someone dish out more real life examples of Ne Polar?


    and is this one:
    I become worried if someone close to me (bf, family member), whose schedule is known to me, takes longer than a day to get back to me..not hear from, but if I've attempted at contacting them and I hear nothing after 6+ hours...I get really worried. I try to block it out, but I start coming up with reasons: car wreck, heart attack..etc. It makes me feel lame that I feel the need to re-initiate contact just to make sure they are indeed okay.

    ?

    i make an effort to not come across as clingy (honestly, parents dont care)..but to me it's important to know, shit's okay for another day.
    yeah. i need to get away from hospitals.

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    I just gave you one.

    People who have Ne PoLR work like a bomb...they sit there and collect all this energy, because they are introverts, they let a mess accumulate around them, than, suddenly they will get up and do everything at once, expanding a lot of energy, through the use of Se in the ego block and get everything cleaned up at once. This avoids, or ignores, Te, efficiency. Te types do the opposite, they work consistently with consistent amount of energy for even paced and a long time. Hence, they don't save things for the last minute when things break down too far. Ne-PoLR types also will take immeasurable steps, they would rather run to change a light bulb several times and never bother to change a bad lightbulb unit again, compare this with Te type, they will change the lighbulb unit because they like well functioning tools and hence increases efficiency and decreases energy expenditure in having to constantly run to change a lightbulb, which is inefficient and require much more energy than Te want to put out.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    I know a female ESI, she's kind of unhealthy. Worries about everything. Hyper-vigilant about her children (which drives them crazy), too over-protective to the point where she prohibits them ever eating fast food of any sort because it's not organic, etc, etc. Generally she puts a wet blanket over anything fun because it might turn out to be dangerous. Nervous riding in a convertible with the top down because "what if it flips over and kills us??" Schedules out her day, writes everything down, wants to control what everyone's doing.

    Basically, if she were my mother, I would scream and then run far, far away.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    well then.
    can someone dish out more real life examples of Ne Polar?


    and is this one:
    I become worried if someone close to me (bf, family member), whose schedule is known to me, takes longer than a day to get back to me..not hear from, but if I've attempted at contacting them and I hear nothing after 6+ hours...I get really worried. I try to block it out, but I start coming up with reasons: car wreck, heart attack..etc. It makes me feel lame that I feel the need to re-initiate contact just to make sure they are indeed okay.
    Yeah, definitely. My LSI mother does this ALL the time. And feeling the need to lock your doors all the time when you live in a very safe suburb.

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    boom boom boom blackburry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Yeah, definitely. My LSI mother does this ALL the time. And feeling the need to lock your doors all the time when you live in a very safe suburb.
    I have to though. I feel protective of those I care about..if something bad happens to them I feel like I have to know about it so I can do something, help them, anything.

    I wish I was selectively intuitive about bad events happening, like some people just get "a gut feeling"...I'm always on hyper alert when it comes to potential disasters. Seen too many happen to not be.

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    Could this be a good indication of this PoLR; in preference to Ni instead of Ne, my LSI boss pesters the living daylights out of his employees for updates on projects that's seemingly random to me, but very specifically, he has to know what's going on with them "now", being sort of instantly satisfied, by calling or finding out, is something he strives for. These things that he needs an answer to are only things that are of logical conformity in his own mind, they aren't all that objectively important.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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