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Thread: INTp-ESFp duality discussion and examples (ILI-SEE)

  1. #161

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    Smilely man, go watch some episodes of Northern exposure. Fleischman is a ESFP and pretty much the main character. Good show and you will see an example of an ESFP which is prolly a fair bit different then what you expect.
    IEE

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    better to base such judgments on experience and not abstract speculation

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    I know an SEE in medical school who wants to open an HIV/AIDS clinic. I knew a doctor that is a good friend of my ILI step dad (a lawyer) who is probably SEE. He talked to my brother, an IEE, a lot more than he did me, but I was never really sure how to act around him and I was very young at the time. One of my brother's best friends is SEE.

    The med student and doctor are very politically inclined. They love to play devil's advocate and get into heated debates. Make no mistake, they are gammas, and the two docs I know are very intellectual in that sense. Sometimes I'd crack a joke at what they were saying, and they'd sorta brush me off and get a little frustrated, like I was wasting their time.

    The only real conflict I've been in with an SEE was with my brother's friend a long time ago when he found out that I was smoking. His dad died from lung cancer and he had really strong convictions, but I was kind of a jerk and took up this really nonchalant attitude towards him because he was getting all preachy. He did not like this at ALL. I was just and he was all until I basically walked away. We just distantly respect each other now.

    My brother has a much more gentle and quirky way of getting his personal sentiments across. It's kinda funny sometimes, but it's really not something I can respond to.

    I think most of the descriptions of SEEs out there were written by LIIs or EIIs or some other type with unfavorable relations. I wouldn't worry about them too much if I were you. Grab on to that Se and enjoy the ride!
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

  4. #164
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    The ILI SEE duality is my favourite duality of all. I like it even more than my own duality.

    I can just imagine this flamboyant really outgoing girl who has had a rough life due to all of the assholes she has dated in her time. One day she is sitting on the train and she notices this quiet guy in the corner reading a book, oblivious to everyone else. He is nothing like the guys she is normally attracted to at all. Shes one hot thing who gets guys easily, but there is just something about him she cant ignore. He is so nerdy and awkward and it makes her want him more. On the inside she is more fragile than people realise, and the way he is makes her want to be around him. Strangely though she is not sure she can get this guy, which is odd because she snaps her fingers on the dancefloor and the rugged sporting players surround her. Lets face it, those guys were not intellectual though, and this guys intelligence intimidates her. She realises though that she must try, must persue. She must have him and she doesn't care what her friends think.

    I dont know why, but to me this duality seems so fantastic. I just love the idea of some nerdy guy getting the girl.

    Im going to the football with an ILI and his LIE girlfriend today. I really love the guy. He is like the rock of Gibraltar, hes always the same temprament very reliable. This ILI is not overly nerdy, he wears glasses and is a lawyer, but he is very confident and intelligent and hes happy to joke around as well.

    Legend
    Last edited by meatburger; 06-27-2009 at 02:09 AM.
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin

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    I also find this duality charming and very cute especially when the girl is SEE and the guy is ILI, Meatburger describes it best. I know 2 SEE girls one is Se subtype and the other is Fi. They both have a tendency to draw everyone around them because they are so fun and cool and have this grounded authenticity to them.

    The Se subtype loves Ni guys, she's a sucker for IEIs. She's currently dating an IEI, She's always commenting on how she loves that he's in touch with his feminine side which I find entertaining. The Fi subtype is the kind of girl that can make even the most socially awkward guy feel comfortable and welcomed, it's just something that she does effortlessly.

    Anyway, I love the concept of this duality, I find it to be the most romantic of all because it isn't a cheesy love story. It's surprising and entails the wild hotness that is SEE suddenly being drawn to this quiet off beat ILI who's not used to getting attention from anyone but wins the jackpot by having the coolest dual of all.

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    I know this thread is old as archaea, but I was reading through it, identified with the 'crazed' search for an ESFP and only an ESFP, and had insight occur to me that seemed to answer my problem of flirting with my ESFP crush who is always looking around in the spotlight at his ESFX friends.

    Insight: i have found myself possessing an unusual natural flirting behavior, and I think it works well in attracting ESFps--I allow myself to be observed (I know that sounds weird) in my heavily perception/new information focussing.i.e. I do not stare at the fascinating ESFP.
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...popcornso0.gif
    I show that I am confident and inquisitive. Instead of feeling a pull to look to the left and ignoring it because of polar and discomfort around people, I look where my attention was attracted. i see something--some object or interaction.It impresses a thought on my brain.Etc. I consider it. i allow the flow of interesting data to attract my attention. I am treating the world like I treat books when I am studying them.

    I just realized, I think this is allowing one's and the (to ESFPs) attractive fact that one is a perceiver first and foremost to be observed. We come off as so harsh and nerdy and socially awkward/unsociable sometimes that I think it's harder to see an 'in' with someone who's learnt to deal with the world (like imaginative Walter Mitty) by putting on the General uniform of .
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    I know this thread is old as archaea, but I was reading through it, identified with the 'crazed' search for an ESFP and only an ESFP, and had insight occur to me that seemed to answer my problem of flirting with my ESFP crush who is always looking around in the spotlight at his ESFX friends.

    Insight: i have found myself possessing an unusual natural flirting behavior, and I think it works well in attracting ESFps--I allow myself to be observed (I know that sounds weird) in my heavily perception/new information focussing.i.e. I do not stare at the fascinating ESFP.
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...popcornso0.gif
    I show that I am confident and inquisitive. Instead of feeling a pull to look to the left and ignoring it because of polar and discomfort around people, I look where my attention was attracted. i see something--some object or interaction.It impresses a thought on my brain.Etc. I consider it. i allow the flow of interesting data to attract my attention. I am treating the world like I treat books when I am studying them.

    I just realized, I think this is allowing one's and the (to ESFPs) attractive fact that one is a perceiver first and foremost to be observed. We come off as so harsh and nerdy and socially awkward/unsociable sometimes that I think it's harder to see an 'in' with someone who's learnt to deal with the world (like imaginative Walter Mitty) by putting on the General uniform of .
    Yes SEE is drawn to autistic looking people :-)

    Often it is said, you don't find an SEE, the SEE finds you. And I think it's true in my experience...

  8. #168
    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat View Post
    I don't want hell in my life, I'm not going to give up and give in to it. I would rather live life in a sensory deprivation chamber
    Haha, I thought about that too when I was pissed of everything around me. Must be a nice place to chill... :wink:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Well, the reality is different and I don't like to deceive myself. Illusions are short term solutions.
    That's totally true.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Question What would a typical day be like for INTp-ESFp duals?

    Even if you can't describe an SEE's typical day, how do you foresee a stereotypical ILI would have to start being more fluid in her daily life schedule-wise, or otherwise, to allow an amalgamation of her own activities and those of an SEE to occur? Suggestions? Do you think the interaction will be nearly seamless and not involve much mental work and rearrangement--some automatic plasticity I wouldn't need to prepare for much?

    This stems from some concern over my recent personal acknowledgment that I don't make much time at all for fun in my life. I am in my mid-twenties now and am suddenly starting to worry that, with my present kind of activities, I may end up without a partner. Now I like being alone, and I enjoy the tremendous independence from intrusion and demands that some relations can make. I could have a perfectly enjoyable and rich and beautiful life, but I would like to obtain some perks of a very independent but loyal long-term relationship. I worry that I may not get there without some attention to my personal life. I am a workaholic (when I value the goal) who avoids drudgery work. Efficiency is my miserly mantra. I would like to date, but I extend out my energy and effort mostly toward education, work, some spiritual pondering, some basic household drudgery, hiding from the outside world and playing on the internet, and a few friendships.I can see how these things could initially be off-putting to an ESFP

    I don't much pursue relationships unless I know the other party is interested in me and displays some . These have been pleasant but have been catastrophically bad timing with 2 ESFPs and, in the case of the IEE, a matter of very different goals and needs. More actual dating may be a step in the right direction.

    i'm less favorable toward relationships with non XSFPs now, as a result of several dates with or or or dominant men either providing no mental stimulation of the type I respond to, no sense of independence and spirit (to me), or no physical attraction (great-looking, but definitely for someone else).
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    start dating an SEE and figure it out for yourself.

    Duality is without a doubt the best relationship, if it still not works for you, become a hermit.

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    lol. continues with operation dualguyinmyclassFall 2010
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    lol. continues with operation dualguyinmyclassFall 2010
    That's more like it. Hunt them down, take of their scalp and collect their skulls!

  13. #173
    xerxe xerxe's Avatar
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    Typical day for typical young-ish SEE:

    make money
    do community volunteering
    get drunk and party with their friends
    buy shoes or clothes
    get drunk and party some more with their friends
    make more money
    go clubbing or to a party
    get drunk at the party
    make out with a random girl at the party
    drive through a neighborhood at midnight listening to music turned to full volume
    get drunk and party with their friends
    get drunk and party some more with their friends

  14. #174

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    Default Strange Dual Experience - SEE/ILI

    Removed, thanks for the feedback
    Last edited by INTrosPect; 10-13-2011 at 06:15 PM.

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    Maybe she wanted to go back to the mountains to bang.

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    I'm not really seeing how this is strange either?

    It sounds like whenever you offered your preferences (live music, fajitas) she took initiative to make it happen. That sounds like SEE-ILI duality to me. She respects your opinion. That's why SEEs like ILIs, they want their insight and knowledge to guide their Se initiative. Trying to pry it out of you is the opposite of passive. Also, because duality strengthens overtime, you probably won't feel the need to have a wealth of ideas once you two spend more time together, she gets to know you, and you start feeling more comfortable offering your opinions (whether they are brilliant or not).

  17. #177
    "Information without energy is useless" Nowisthetime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTrosPect View Post

    It felt like she was demanding some function I couldn't provide.
    It doesn't have to be socionics related. I mean it's common that girls want to see if the guy has initiative when on a date, it's just a social, gender role thing. I was on a date with an ILE once and she tested me all the time on ideas, "so what do you suggest that we do", and ILEs aren't exactly lacking in this area. It's usually just a stage that you have to get over. When you get to know each other more things usually change.

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    boom boom boom blackburry's Avatar
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    Yeah, that sounds SEE-ILI to me. if she likes you, she will agree to hang out with you again. LOL someone putting their face 2inches from your own isnt type related..sounds gross.

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    Default Pictures of ILI SEE

    Post pictures of ILI SEE duals.

    I'm curious how the relationship looks from the outside. I was thinking the iron giant might be an example, with Hogarth as the ILI and the Iron Giant as the SEE? Maybe the other way around?

    Last edited by Azure Flame; 06-09-2012 at 10:08 PM.

  20. #180
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    pic? Hell, I'll do you one better:

    p . . . a . . . n . . . d . . . o . . . r . . . a
    trad metalz | (more coming)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    probably the worst trait of an SEE is that they tend to lie sometimes.

    and an ILI is good at noticing them. (i think)

    and... not being sincere is a really bad move towards an ILI.
    i have to struggle to refrain from saying my piece on this. a really interesting topic btw, *bump and hide*

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Typical day for typical young-ish SEE:

    make money
    do community volunteering
    get drunk and party with their friends
    buy shoes or clothes
    get drunk and party some more with their friends
    make more money
    go clubbing or to a party
    get drunk at the party
    make out with a random girl at the party
    drive through a neighborhood at midnight listening to music turned to full volume
    get drunk and party with their friends
    get drunk and party some more with their friends



    "
    As I walk through the valley of the shadow of death
    I take a look at my life and realize there's nothin' left
    ‘Cause I've been blastin' and laughin' so long
    That even my momma thinks that my mind is gone
    But I ain't never crossed a man that didn't deserve it
    Me be treated like a punk, you know that's unheard of
    You better watch how you talkin' and where you walkin'
    Or you and your homies might be lined in chalk
    I really hate to trip, but I gotta loc
    As they croak, I see myself in the pistol smoke
    Fool, I'm the kinda G that little homies wanna be like
    On my knees in the night, sayin' prayers in the street light

    Keep spending most our lives
    Livin' in a gangsta's paradise
    Been spending most their lives
    Livin' in a gangsta's paradise
    We keep spending most our lives
    Livin' in a gangsta's paradise
    We keep spending most our lives
    Livin' in a gangsta's paradise

    Look at the situation they got me facin'
    I can't live a normal life, I was raised by the street
    So I gotta be down with the hood team
    Too much television watching, got me chasing dreams
    I'm a educated fool with money on my mind
    Got my ten in my hand and a gleam in my eye
    I'm a loc'd out gangsta, set trippin' banger
    And my homies are down, so don't arouse my anger
    Fool, death ain't nothin' but a heart beat away
    I'm livin' life do or die, what can I say?
    I'm 23 now, will I live to see 24?
    The way things is going I don't know

    Tell me why are we so blind to see
    That the ones we hurt are you and me?

    Keep spending most our lives
    Livin' in a gangsta's paradise
    Been spending most their lives
    Livin' in a gangsta's paradise
    We keep spending most our lives
    Livin' in a gangsta's paradise
    We keep spending most our lives
    Livin' in a gangsta's paradise

    Power and the money, money and the power
    Minute after minute, hour after hour
    Everybody's running, but half of them ain't lookin'
    It's going on in the kitchen, but I don't know what's cookin'
    They say I gotta learn, but nobody's here to teach me
    If they can't understand it, how can they reach me?
    I guess they can't, I guess they won't
    I guess they front; that's why I know my life is out of luck, fool!

    Keep spending most our lives
    Livin' in a gangsta's paradise
    Been spending most their lives
    Livin' in a gangsta's paradise
    We keep spending most our lives
    Livin' in a gangsta's paradise
    We keep spending most our lives
    Livin' in a gangsta's paradise

    Tell me why are we so blind to see
    That the ones we hurt are you and me?
    [x2]

    Ain't no gangstas living in paradise [x2]"

  23. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    i have to struggle to refrain from saying my piece on this. a really interesting topic btw, *bump and hide*
    Yeah not all of them do this, some are very sincere, but I do notice they can sometimes be a bit tactical.

    I think nowadays (when i'm older) I would not associate lying with SEE that much anymore.

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    What a blessing. My life is complete when I am with my dual.
    ILI-Ni 5w4 sp/sx 548 RLUEI

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    SEE's don't seem to, to me, lie intentionally, entirely. Kinda more like Fish Stories, embellishing, outlandish embellishing with a forgetfulness of epic proportions. So do they lie, yes, technically. But the SEE can, should, temper with age, especially with a dual the whole time to aide towards growing in that direction.
    Maisy
    ILI-Ni (INTp)
    I think in pictures, moving pictures...

    Recommended Music - ILI-Ni



    "And one peculiar point I see,
    As one of the many ones of me.
    As truth is gathered, I rearrange,
    Inside out, outside in, inside out, outside in,
    Perpetual change"


    Yes - The Yes Album - from "Perpetual Change" (written by Howe and Squire)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Yeah not all of them do this, some are very sincere, but I do notice they can sometimes be a bit tactical.

    I think nowadays (when i'm older) I would not associate lying with SEE that much anymore.
    it's rather i've noticed ILIs can be a bit in the player cathegory *bites tongue*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    it's rather i've noticed ILIs can be a bit in the player cathegory *bites tongue*
    yes think so too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    yes think so too.
    is it maybe a matter of life goals what really is type-tied or do you think it's something else entirely?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    is it maybe a matter of life goals what really is type-tied or do you think it's something else entirely?
    I don't know. There are a lot of things that people of the same type share with each other. Socionics is a very nice model that describes a lot of things. But not all.

    Life goals are probably better described by instincts. The instincts theory is very compact but I think it thought me more about myself than Socioniocs. But Socionics thought me more about relationships.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    I don't know. There are a lot of things that people of the same type share with each other. Socionics is a very nice model that describes a lot of things. But not all.

    Life goals are probably better described by instincts. The instincts theory is very compact but I think it thought me more about myself than Socioniocs. But Socionics thought me more about relationships.
    an ILI i'd dated, well my first boyfriend (who also placed third at a later time) i'd place in a player sorta cathegory because he'd always have a girl or two in the backseat so to speak, and anytime it'd fall through with me he'd play their card. another thing he'd do was take initiative always, but very very subtly so i'd had to do a lot of work by, say, making sure the door was open for him to come in so it seemed seamless;

    i found his personality exhilarating and certain things he did and was a part of seemed to me at the time were so because he was very much a part of the social glue yet later i understand partially through socionics: like maybe he was aware of certain social structures and power balances and played to that;

    the thing he did with the 'girl cards' is silly, in retrospect, since i'd always find out - like, i had informers, so to speak, always knew what was going, like he'd call a few of the guys and have a semi-party with few of the girls involving his 'card-girls' and make it all seem it was a general hangout rather than scout-dating;

    i've also considered LIE but the subtlety really tipped the balance to ILI. is that the sort of stuff you have in mind Jarno?

    to me he seemed meandering, thought maybe a lack of long-term strategy on his end though i stilll care about him today i'd rather he'd held me in less of a regard and loved me a bit more rather.
    Last edited by Delilah; 02-05-2017 at 06:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    i've also considered LIE but the subtlety really tipped the balance to ILI. is that the sort of stuff you have in mind Jarno?
    i can relate to it (when i was younger). funny/weird to hear such a similarity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    snip
    My question to you is did he really go through all the trouble to do all that stuff? Or whether it just fell into place like that with little effort? That sounds interesting either way it happened.

    I'm fairly sure I would absolutely not do all of that. In my case, it would be much more likely for it to seem that way than me actually doing it. I could see myself not getting emotional after a break up and moving on fairly quickly, especially if it was not a long term thing. If this was a lesser relationship however, I'd probably find someone else. That is if I wanted to find someone else.

  33. #193
    silke's Avatar
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    ILI-SEE slavic duality couple - Alexandr and Natalia Litvin

    him: ILI 5w6 sx/sp - her: SEE 9w1 sp/so










  34. #194
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Blue dress girls is ILI, in my considered opinion. Or if she isn't, she's playing one really well.

    Last edited by Adam Strange; 03-26-2020 at 02:44 PM.

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