ESTp?

[FDG]

HAHAHAHAHA. Quality. Yeah, I understand now.

Bullshit. I saw your pics on the EIDB, and you couldn't order around a thing.

[Logos]

Why would I want to be any other type? Of course, I think that it still remains possible to see "Well, I could also potentially be this type too." But most likely in those cases, this secondary type is merely another type which has the second most number of shared characteristics with your primary type, which may be either a person's mirror, business, or kindred relationship type.

To put it another way -- why is your conflictor your conflictor? Because they've got their priorities all wrong in your opinion. Why would you want to be someone who's got their priorities wrong? You want to be someone who's got their priorities right - that is, your identical. Your own type.

Beautiful.

[Ezra]

HAHAHAHAHA. Quality. Yeah, I understand now.

Bullshit. I saw your pics on the EIDB, and you couldn't order around a thing.

Your statement is not mutually dependent on mine. I said I understand the idea behind Dual and Conflicting relationships. You're challenging the idea that I'm an SLE.

By all means challenge away. It will not detract from the fact that your views of SLE are based solely around muscle-bound tyrants who have no fucking clue about using their head to win battles. Come on Fabio, it's like saying all 8s are pure beef. Or that all ESTjs are mechanics, because they are practical. It's a simplistic view.

[Gilly]

You're quick to assume, Ezra. I'd trust Fabie to know an Se dominant, especially as he happens to be one who falls well outside of your proposed stereotype.

[Ezra]

It's possible. But what else could I possibly be?

I'd consider ENTp, if not for the fact that they shy away from conflict. ENTj if not for Se as a 6th function. ESTj if not for the fact that I consider long-term.

[Gilly]

You are either SLE or ILE; as much as I disagree with the methods that some others use to arrive at this same conclusion, I'm pretty sure it's the correct one.

You have a lot of similarities with myself and another person whose type I'm not sure of. This third guy is an interesting case. He's a classic 7w8 sx/sp: experience-seeking, self-styled, intellectual, lots of opinions, interested in spirituality and self-discovery, etc. On the surface, he seems much more like a Ti-ILE: he's a little tempermental, somewhat awkward and closed-off at times, can be clumsy and spacy, and places a lot of stake in his views and interests as parts of his identity. However, like you and I, he's not afraid of confrontation. When I first met him, we were watching a TV program on the '60s with some mutual friends. When they started playing Jefferson Airplane, I made a joke about people having to be high or tripping to like that kind of music. He immediately spoke up, and not exactly in a friendly tone: "I listen to that music. All the time." I immediately thought "Well, there's one bridge burned..." We started actually having a discussion about it, and within 2 or 3 days, he was my best friend at the school.

Another experience with him that made me doubt ILE. He and his girlfriend have sex a LOT. As in they are fucking at every possible moment. His roommate, an Ne-ILE and also a friend of mine, tends to get locked out of their room as a result. One time he (the roommate) and I were trying to drive into town, but the roommate's keys were in the room. Turns out, they were fucking at the time, and had locked the door. The roommate knocked politely/normally and raised his voice a little. No answer. He refused to persist, and I had been getting fed up with this kind of thing from the guy, so I threw a couple of good and loud police knocks on the door and yelled the guy's name along with a quasi-crass sex joke. Nothing at first, but after probably a minute he came out of the door with some pants and no shirt and looked straight at me. The first words out of his mouth were "Wanna fight?"

Now, does that sound like something a typical ILE would say? Without being actually confronted first? Would an ILE play king of the lion's den and then immediately try to repulse anyone treading on his turf using the threat of violence? I'm not so sure, and I know that this guy is 100% my identical; in fact, we share just about everything as far as typology goes: we're both MBTI ENTP, Enneagram 7w8 (he is sx/sp and I'm sx/so), Big 5 SLUEI...I can't really think of much we don't have in common in terms of personality, even beyond typology.

What's the deal?

[redbaron]

This is where I don't understand where your Dual comes in. If your Dual is your best match, then why is it that they are better than your Identical?

Depending on which types we are talking about, identicals can be very good too (not in all cases imo).

Really? What types, may I ask?

[Joy]

I would think it would work better with two extroverts. And two ethical types. And two sensory types. I dunno though.

[Ezra]

You are either SLE or ILE; as much as I disagree with the methods that some others use to arrive at this same conclusion, I'm pretty sure it's the correct one.

You have a lot of similarities with myself and another person whose type I'm not sure of. This third guy is an interesting case. He's a classic 7w8 sx/sp: experience-seeking, self-styled, intellectual, lots of opinions, interested in spirituality and self-discovery, etc. On the surface, he seems much more like a Ti-ILE: he's a little tempermental, somewhat awkward and closed-off at times, can be clumsy and spacy, and places a lot of stake in his views and interests as parts of his identity. However, like you and I, he's not afraid of confrontation. When I first met him, we were watching a TV program on the '60s with some mutual friends. When they started playing Jefferson Airplane, I made a joke about people having to be high or tripping to like that kind of music. He immediately spoke up, and not exactly in a friendly tone: "I listen to that music. All the time." I immediately thought "Well, there's one bridge burned..." We started actually having a discussion about it, and within 2 or 3 days, he was my best friend at the school.

Another experience with him that made me doubt ILE. He and his girlfriend have sex a LOT. As in they are fucking at every possible moment. His roommate, an Ne-ILE and also a friend of mine, tends to get locked out of their room as a result. One time he (the roommate) and I were trying to drive into town, but the roommate's keys were in the room. Turns out, they were fucking at the time, and had locked the door. The roommate knocked politely/normally and raised his voice a little. No answer. He refused to persist, and I had been getting fed up with this kind of thing from the guy, so I threw a couple of good and loud police knocks on the door and yelled the guy's name along with a quasi-crass sex joke. Nothing at first, but after probably a minute he came out of the door with some pants and no shirt and looked straight at me. The first words out of his mouth were "Wanna fight?"

Now, does that sound like something a typical ILE would say? Without being actually confronted first? Would an ILE play king of the lion's den and then immediately try to repulse anyone treading on his turf using the threat of violence? I'm not so sure, and I know that this guy is 100% my identical; in fact, we share just about everything as far as typology goes: we're both MBTI ENTP, Enneagram 7w8 (he is sx/sp and I'm sx/so), Big 5 SLUEI...I can't really think of much we don't have in common in terms of personality, even beyond typology.

What's the deal?

Yeah, I'm MBTI ENTJ and an 8w7 sp/sx. There's no way I'm ILE. Conflict and argument and winning dominate my conversation and my life. Someone today called me 'astute'. I didn't know what it meant, so I looked it up. And I agreed. Friends and family alike agree that I am just too concerned with battle.

You decided on 7w8 now then?

[FDG]

You are either SLE or ILE; as much as I disagree with the methods that some others use to arrive at this same conclusion, I'm pretty sure it's the correct one.

You have a lot of similarities with myself and another person whose type I'm not sure of. This third guy is an interesting case. He's a classic 7w8 sx/sp: experience-seeking, self-styled, intellectual, lots of opinions, interested in spirituality and self-discovery, etc. On the surface, he seems much more like a Ti-ILE: he's a little tempermental, somewhat awkward and closed-off at times, can be clumsy and spacy, and places a lot of stake in his views and interests as parts of his identity. However, like you and I, he's not afraid of confrontation. When I first met him, we were watching a TV program on the '60s with some mutual friends. When they started playing Jefferson Airplane, I made a joke about people having to be high or tripping to like that kind of music. He immediately spoke up, and not exactly in a friendly tone: "I listen to that music. All the time." I immediately thought "Well, there's one bridge burned..." We started actually having a discussion about it, and within 2 or 3 days, he was my best friend at the school.

Another experience with him that made me doubt ILE. He and his girlfriend have sex a LOT. As in they are fucking at every possible moment. His roommate, an Ne-ILE and also a friend of mine, tends to get locked out of their room as a result. One time he (the roommate) and I were trying to drive into town, but the roommate's keys were in the room. Turns out, they were fucking at the time, and had locked the door. The roommate knocked politely/normally and raised his voice a little. No answer. He refused to persist, and I had been getting fed up with this kind of thing from the guy, so I threw a couple of good and loud police knocks on the door and yelled the guy's name along with a quasi-crass sex joke. Nothing at first, but after probably a minute he came out of the door with some pants and no shirt and looked straight at me. The first words out of his mouth were "Wanna fight?"

Now, does that sound like something a typical ILE would say? Without being actually confronted first? Would an ILE play king of the lion's den and then immediately try to repulse anyone treading on his turf using the threat of violence? I'm not so sure, and I know that this guy is 100% my identical; in fact, we share just about everything as far as typology goes: we're both MBTI ENTP, Enneagram 7w8 (he is sx/sp and I'm sx/so), Big 5 SLUEI...I can't really think of much we don't have in common in terms of personality, even beyond typology.

What's the deal?

Yeah, I'm MBTI ENTJ and an 8w7 sp/sx. There's no way I'm ILE. Conflict and argument and winning dominate my conversation and my life. Someone today called me 'astute'. I didn't know what it meant, so I looked it up. And I agreed. Friends and family alike agree that I am just too concerned with battle.

You decided on 7w8 now then?

You weigh 10 lbs and you think all your life is about battles?

[Gilly]

Fabie, quit being a douche.

[Expat]

This is where I don't understand where your Dual comes in. If your Dual is your best match, then why is it that they are better than your Identical?

Depending on which types we are talking about, identicals can be very good too (not in all cases imo).

Really? What types, may I ask?

Hmmm -- roughly, I think between the Alpha SFs, between the Beta NFs but more ENFj, between the Gamma rationals, and between all Deltas.

[Gilly]

Why those types more than others? Is this an observation?

[Expat]

Why those types more than others? Is this an observation?

Partly, yes --

My half-baked thoughts and observations are:

- Se dominants don't really get along in the longer term because they both want to be the boss. The same for ISTjs, unless the pair happens to have almost total agreement in their Ti. I also think they will tend to depress each other - the same for two INTjs.
- I think quadra identicals will tend to work better, so two ISFjs work (and I have observed this), as well as two ENTjs - but two INTps will be difficult to get going. Perhaps the same for two ISTps but less so.

- Two INFps can work better than two INTps, I think, because of the higher understanding of Fe and even Fi.

The others I listed are those where I don't see those problems.

[Gilly]

Why would types from Fi quadras be more suited to identical relationships?

[Expat]

Why would types from Fi quadras be more suited to identical relationships?

It's something I have observed (small sample). Not sure of the functional reason.

[Gilly]

Fi: "We love each other and need to find some way to make this work."
Fe: "We need to accept the fact that we just aren't compatible and move on."

[Slacker]

We had an ENFj/ENFj couple who were neighbors (just moving away today) and they seem quite happy.

[Gilly]

Maybe this has something to do with Ti being, in extreme form, "The ends justify the means." Extreme Ti does what it needs to do to get the goal accomplished, while Fi does what is necessary to keep the relationship together. Maybe?

[Expat]

If it's just a matter of getting along, yes, I think that makes sense.

[Gilly]

I was thinking more in terms of picking up where the other leaves off and such.