Okay, I'll Bite

[Animal]

"Playing" does not necessarily mean "lazing about all day." Where I worked last month, we did a lot of "playing" which mostly entailed walking around D.C. and soliciting donations from companies. I consider that "playing" because it was enjoyable work in pleasant company in a pleasant environment.

[Joy]

Donations for what?

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Animal]

Donations for what?

This organization: http://www.uspirg.org/

Hmm. I think I'm somewhere in between these views. I think a person should do something they love, and so work will be something they enjoy doing, a part of their lives, not something you go to and force yourself through, to get back to your life afterwards, but something that IS a part of your life. Something you can be proud of, and really feel like you're accomplishing something, something you love to do. However!! I don't think it should encompass your whole life - every waking minute being purely about work. I think your family, and others you care about won't ever feel neglected, the people in your life will have your time and attention as well. You will have more than enough time to complete your life in a rounded way with friends and loved ones, and other activities you enjoy. If you're working 20 hours a day, and killing yourself to do it, then does it matter how much you love what you do, if that's all you have and you push everyone and everything else to the side to get there? There has to be some kind of balance.

I've known people who make work their whole lives, and I don't know what to say about it. It's kind of tough when they're people who used to be your friends, and you thought you mattered at least a little to them, but they start living work, and only work. All their closest friends become the people they work with, and they seem to forget about anyone else. That becomes their whole world. I've never been in that kind of situation, like that, so I don't know why it happens, and I don't even know if it's good or bad for them or not.

That makes sense, Diana. A lot of sense, actually. It is, of course, unhealthy to take either of these options to the extreme. Moderation and a balanced life, etc. are definitely important. I sort of like Expat's locomotive metaphor - the journey is more important than the destination, so long as the ride is exciting. So work as one aspect of that journey should be a gratifying/rewarding part of your life experience.

[olduser]

"Playing" does not necessarily mean "lazing about all day." Where I worked last month, we did a lot of "playing" which mostly entailed walking around D.C. and soliciting donations from companies. I consider that "playing" because it was enjoyable work in pleasant company in a pleasant environment.

shoulda biked. much faster, more opportunities. i'll be replacing you in your job come monday.

[Elro]

Hmm. I think I'm somewhere in between these views. I think a person should do something they love, and so work will be something they enjoy doing, a part of their lives, not something you go to and force yourself through, to get back to your life afterwards, but something that IS a part of your life. Something you can be proud of, and really feel like you're accomplishing something, something you love to do. However!! I don't think it should encompass your whole life - every waking minute being purely about work.

Indeedy.

[Animal]

"Playing" does not necessarily mean "lazing about all day." Where I worked last month, we did a lot of "playing" which mostly entailed walking around D.C. and soliciting donations from companies. I consider that "playing" because it was enjoyable work in pleasant company in a pleasant environment.

shoulda biked. much faster, more opportunities. i'll be replacing you in your job come monday.

You've never attempted to ride a bike on D.C.'s streets, have you?

[Ms. Kensington]

This thread is both awesome and makes me want to murder myself at the same time.

That's beta AND INFp for you. Beautiful!

i think this is very interesting because this statement also struck me as INFp. And the post directed at Transigent, and the posts by baby saying he "tries to get his head around" posts made by Slacker Mom.

Perhaps he is so clearly INFp to me because I allow for subtypes that don't force him to come across exactly like the other INFps on the forum. Not to mention as some of you alread noted, that he is pretty intelligent and I feel that explains some deviance from the expected behavior as well.

[FDG]

"Playing" does not necessarily mean "lazing about all day." Where I worked last month, we did a lot of "playing" which mostly entailed walking around D.C. and soliciting donations from companies. I consider that "playing" because it was enjoyable work in pleasant company in a pleasant environment.

I don't have a strong opinion on your type but this is completely serious>merry.

[Slacker]

The ESTjs I've worked with work very very hard when they're at work, but when they are at home, they are AT HOME. I had an ESTj and an ESTp manager where I worked - the ESTp manager would call in every day when he was on vacation, but the ESTj didn't want to be bothered when he was on vacation unless there was a true emergency.

[Gilly]

"Playing" does not necessarily mean "lazing about all day." Where I worked last month, we did a lot of "playing" which mostly entailed walking around D.C. and soliciting donations from companies. I consider that "playing" because it was enjoyable work in pleasant company in a pleasant environment.

I don't have a strong opinion on your type but this is completely serious>merry.

You don't have to be Serious to enjoy working.

[Joy]

Auvi, have you read the duality descriptions of each dual pair?

[ScarlettLux]

So the ENTps here feel like Auvi supervises them?

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Gilly]

http://socioniko.net/en/1.3.rels/index.html

Use the drop-down menu in the top right corner.

[Elro]

Okay Auvi, I have figured out an infallible way to determine your type, but it requires you to take your time and give it a lot of thought. I will spare the suspense and ask it right now:

What is your favorite Looney Tunes character, and why?

[Animal]

Is anyone else sick of me, yet? Because this thread has made me sick of myself.

Okay Auvi, I have figured out an infallible way to determine your type, but it requires you to take your time and give it a lot of thought. I will spare the suspense and ask it right now:

What is your favorite Looney Tunes character, and why?

Of the classic characters, I like Granny:
... because I hope to kick as much ass without even realizing it at such an advanced age.

Counting the new characters, it's Yakko:

... I don't know why... I just found him the most charming of the Warner Bros. and sister.

[bendertheoffender]

For me you`ll be always INTp

[Blaze]

well i was out of town for a week with no internet access so i will finally follow up with this. i'll be straightforward, don't take offense though, it's just my reaction.

i definitely do not feel supervised by baby. infj's give me an entirely different feel. i usually get along with infj's despite the supervision. to me, the dynamic with baby feels like friction, a difference in values, a difference in world view, perhaps a contrary relation, hence intp.

i will try to pinpoint what i'm talking about better. sometimes your posts seem to me to be overly valuing of book knowledge and pseudo-intellectualism, and you seem to tend to negate realistic, practical life experience. sometimes you seem overly focused on popularity and artistic snobbery and pop culture. you seem to value the establishment and i see no evidence of eff the man which is so prevalent in beta. there's a bite to your posts that seems T not F.

i just don't see you as an infp. when i think of infp's i think of scarlettlux, misutii, raisonpure, aurora faerie. i don't have these reactions to those individuals.

FWIW. however, it's just my reaction.

[Joy]

The only person on your list of INFps who's type isn't in question (that I know of) is misutii. I don't know where Scarlettlux is right now, but she's gone back and forth between INFp and ENFj. raisonpure seems pretty intent on INFp, but others (myself included of course) see reasons why she may be another type (such as ISTj). Kelly did her own reading about types and functions and has arrived at the conclusion that she's ESFp, and I tend to agree.

That said (lol), I can see a bit more of a resemblance between vague or starfall and Auvi. I'm not sure that the intellectualism is type related. If it is, I'd say it's more indicative of a Ti role and Te dual seeking than being a Te creative type.

Also, I think there are a lot of Betas who are all about the system. The see it, they work it, they pretty much own it. They may challenge systems they do not agree with, but they still value systems, especially in terms of power structures.

[Slacker]

I personally think INFps can be very pretentious, too. I don't mean this as a slam against INFps at all (and I'm sorry because I'm sure it comes across that way), but I'm just saying from the outside that value in what people think about things fits with INFp as far as I can see.

This is in response to this:

i will try to pinpoint what i'm talking about better. sometimes your posts seem to me to be overly valuing of book knowledge and pseudo-intellectualism, and you seem to tend to negate realistic, practical life experience. sometimes you seem overly focused on popularity and artistic snobbery and pop culture.

[Gilly]

What's your point? Every type can be pretentious. I'm not trying to "judge" you for posting something negative about INFps, but I genuinely don't see the purpose of what you're saying. It's like saying "I'm not trying to be mean, but black people can be criminals."

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Creepy-bg]

What's your point? Every type can be pretentious. I'm not trying to "judge" you for posting something negative about INFps, but I genuinely don't see the purpose of what you're saying. It's like saying "I'm not trying to be mean, but black people can be criminals."

racist

[Elro]

racist

racistist

[Slacker]

I'm saying that Diamond sees INTps this way, but I don't think that rules out INFps because I see INFps that way. So either type, and probably any type at all really, could be seen as pretentious. I don't think it's something to base Baby's type on.

[Blaze]

The only person on your list of INFps who's type isn't in question (that I know of) is misutii.

Also, I think there are a lot of Betas who are all about the system. The see it, they work it, they pretty much own it. They may challenge systems they do not agree with, but they still value systems, especially in terms of power structures.

perhaps. i base my perceptions on the infp's i know irl as well. i don't think kelly is esfp not by any stretch. betas tend to work their own systems, not necessarily abide by others though. most will openly criticize the established system, even as they work the laddar of it. there's a rebel quality to beta which sorry i just don't see with baby.

eff the man is prevalent in beta, not necessarily required.

@SM i spose any type can be pretentious it's just a question of about what will they be pretentious. my infj father is pretentious about religion. my estj mother is pretentious about neighborhood. i didn't say that baby was pretentious though....i pointed out some areas where his values seem to conflict with mine.

[Slacker]

Well you said pseudo-intellectualism. Is there a significant difference between that and pretention?

[Blaze]

in my mind pseudo intellectualism means reading a book without looking around to see whether it really makes sense in practical application. believing what you read without testing it. taking a book position without evidence to back it up.

[Slacker]

Aaah OK. Well if that's what you see in him, that could indicate Te>Ti preference.

[Blaze]

Aaah OK. Well if that's what you see in him, that could indicate Te>Ti preference.

it could....but then again, what the hell do i know? :wink:

[Slacker]

And Gilly - I thought about trying to word it much more gently so it would go over better, but then I decided that we're adults here and I wanted to communicate efficiently so people understand exactly what I'm talking about. When you hedge language it makes people feel better but sometimes it can cause people to misunderstand precisely what you're saying. Since I'm talking about my impressions, using a nicer word would have made it sound like my impressions are other than what they are. So I went for understandability > niceness in this case. I see that you disagree with that decision.

[Blaze]

And Gilly - I thought about trying to word it much more gently so it would go over better, but then I decided that we're adults here and I wanted to communicate efficiently so people understand exactly what I'm talking about. When you hedge language it makes people feel better but sometimes it can cause people to misunderstand precisely what you're saying. Since I'm talking about my impressions, using a nicer word would have made it sound like my impressions are other than what they are. So I went for understandability > niceness in this case. I see that you disagree with that decision.

you go SM. love to see that Te dual seeking! :-)

[Gilly]

And Gilly - I thought about trying to word it much more gently so it would go over better, but then I decided that we're adults here and I wanted to communicate efficiently so people understand exactly what I'm talking about. When you hedge language it makes people feel better but sometimes it can cause people to misunderstand precisely what you're saying. Since I'm talking about my impressions, using a nicer word would have made it sound like my impressions are other than what they are. So I went for understandability > niceness in this case. I see that you disagree with that decision.

Either you've drastically misinterpreted me, or you flat out didn't read what I wrote. I specifically stated that I wasn't offended or trying to judge you; I just thought what you were saying was completely pointless. Thought I made that as clear as I possibly could

Maybe it's just me, but it looks like you're judging me based on what you assume to be my functional preferences. I didn't say anything that would have suggested you should be "nicer."

[Animal]

I genuinely don't know how to respond to any of this. I kind of can't help feeling really misunderstood right now.

[Gilly]

Auvi, don't listen to these haters.

My impression of you is actually quite the reverse of all this talk about pseudo-intellectual vibes and such. You seem, on the contrary, very genuinely intellectual and curious about the world, to me at least. I think some people mistake your preoccupation with such things for pretense and a desire to project the image of being what you, in reality, actually are; most people don't really pull that kind of thing off, so I think others are mostly inclined to pin any kind of whiff of being a true intellectual on fakeness or pretense. You seem like the genuine article to me; for what it's worth I've always seen you as anything but pretentious.

[Slacker]

Well, the reason I said earlier that I could see him as an INFj instead of an INFp is because I *don't* see him that way in the slightest, and therefore he doesn't strike me as an INFp.

[Blaze]

baby might very well be genuinely intellectual and as a matter of fact i think precisely he is. the problem is that he seems to place too much stock in the intellectual and not enough in the practical and in experience which is in my opinion narrow and limiting. the idea is to integrate, to listen, to consider all points of view. balance. what good are theories and philosophies unless they can be applied reliably and have some utility?

what i am saying is that i find this practice intellectually offensive.

and now baby has hurt feelings? give me a break. he started a thread on his type. he opened the door for feedback. don't start a thread about your type unless you are prepared for what comes then.

[Creepy-bg]

baby might very well be genuinely intellectual and as a matter of fact i think precisely he is. the problem is that he seems to place too much stock in the intellectual and not enough in the practical and in experience which is in my opinion narrow and limiting. the idea is to integrate, to listen, to consider all points of view. balance. what good are theories and philosophies unless they can be applied reliably and have some utility?

what i am saying is that i find this practice intellectually offensive.

and now baby has hurt feelings? give me a break. he started a thread on his type. he opened the door for feedback. don't start a thread about your type unless you are prepared for what comes then.

+2 for speaking your mind (even though I winced a bit when I read it )

[Gilly]

...and therefore he doesn't strike me as an INFp.

So there are no pretentious EIIs? Lack of pretense points away from IEI? Wow, your typing criteria are dead on...Fuck, you keep saying shit like this and you're the next on that list.