determining relations with parents

[reyn_til_runa]

I'm trying to verify whether or not my mom is my conclicting partner. She's definitely the person with whom I've had the most conflict in my life, so it seems that my relation with her could act as an indicator. Yet, she is my mother and our severe and enduring conflict could have arisen more from her being an authority figure without a touch of reasoning ability as well as the fact that our value systems are contrary. I had thought ISFj might have fit her, but I admit to only being led to ISFj by my belief that I was ENTp.

I don't feel like writing a huge post about my mother, so perhaps some of you can ask me pointed questions.

Also, I would like to know how one can reliably determine socionics relation to the mother/father, given all the other factors which contribute to ones relationships to parents.

[Mea]

I don't think a person needs to be your conflictor for both of you conflict a lot.

My mom is ESFj, and she really irritates me, and wouldn't leave me alone when I just wish she'd go away.

I don't know what kinda questions to ask. But I'm curious what kinda conflict you have with your mom. Like what do you not like about what she does. What do you guys disagree with?

[Blaze]

yes what mea said.

when mom's keep acting like moms and like you are 10 years old, there's bound to be conflict no matter what the types are of those involved.

in your 20's as an adult you start to set boundaries with your parents - and it takes them awhile to adjust to this. some never do! so you have to keep setting boundaries.

[Joy]

It's EXTREMELY difficult with my parents. I've seriously considered a wide range of possible types for both of them, and still don't know what types they are. All I know is that they have a favorable relation with each other, and that they're both somewhat broken. More so my mom. And that my dad is most likely INFx.

I think parents are really difficult for most people to type.

[Expat]

She's definitely the person with whom I've had the most conflict in my life, so it seems that my relation with her could act as an indicator. .

What is the conflict usually about?

[ThePeddler]

My Mom's type is either ESTj or ESTp...Not sure which, but she fits the social role of an ESTj more, but acts kinda ...I guess I still have trouble differentiating and . My mom and dad are divorced, so I'm gonna go to the next Authority Figure, and type my grandfather, who is either ISTj or ENTj..

My mom and I usually get along great. She kinda, well, just wanted her children to be independent. I have a lot of her values, which tend to be eclectic. We both can't stand clingingness and bitching/whining , so we help eachother to just confront things. She tries to treat people/children as adults or at least people with their own mind. The only problem between us is when she gets too intrusive and I get too preoccupied..

Granddad...Most obnoxious person that you could ever meet...Believe me, he will go out of his way to offend, prove wrong, or just plain argue.... He says it's due to his "contrary" nature, but it's not. He's just obnoxious. EVERYONE has to listen to his views, and of course, he's always right. He thinks that by giving people Lectures and Advice, that it'd actually help, but he doesn't realize that people have to EXPERIENCE things for themselves. We've always had a strained relationship...Maybe because I'm just as sure of my views as he is of his... My mom has the same strained relationship as I...

Now I think My Mom's ESTj and Grandfather ISTj... It seems right, i guess...

I think it's possible to type parents and people that you've grown up with. Just think of them as regular people... and type them as such.. Because you've grown up with them, you've probably formed some "hows and whys" about their actions. But if you try to look at them from an objective level, it'd be easier. At least for me, it was...

[Sorc]

My mom is ESFj and me ENFj and we have alot of fights, but calming down and getting some "consensus" at end... till next fight... The problem that her creative is my PoLR and my creative is her PoLR. + she is mom and like to make advises from her creative but she also hepls me and streighten my PolR some...

[Logos]

I am certain that my mother is an ENFj, as she fits the archetype quite smoothly. She also mostly criticizes me for lacking my PoLR ("You never take the initiative"; "You would let people walk all over you?", etc.), which is of course her HA. I have not yet ventured to try and obtain my father's type as I am uncertain his type as well as what sort of relationship he has between the rest of the family (i.e. I fear that he is INTj too, though I doubt it). But interestingly enough, my maternal grandmother scored ExFJ on MBTI, but I am fairly positive that she is ESFj since her primary concern is if people are well fed, comfortable, and having a good time (creative ). And my grandfather, I think, scored as a ISTJ on MBTI, and it does explain quite a bit in terms of my relations in the family. I have been told that I remind my mother of her father. My mother and I get along well with both of my grandparents probably a bit better than my sister (INFj) and much more smoothly than my father (INTp?).

[reyn_til_runa]

She's definitely the person with whom I've had the most conflict in my life, so it seems that my relation with her could act as an indicator. .

What is the conflict usually about?

She thought the conflict was about surface level issues such as my backtalk, not keeping track of money, not doing what she said, not attending church, not doing homework, not attending family gatherings, etc.

Overall, I think the conflict originated from not caring about many (if any) of the same values and having completely different interests. One of the things I dislike most about her is that she is overly concerned with how she appears to others and passes this mindset along to her children. She would often say when I was "acting up" that I was reflecting poorly on HER. Sometimes it was just the fact that I refused to wear a slip or a certain dress to church as she would have liked. She would only praise me for the things I did not care about. For example, I excelled in music, and after a performance, she would say I looked so pretty. Sometimes she would say "I didn't hear one mistake!" which of course, only made me review all the mistakes I heard in myself. As I got older, it was my general air of disrespect (which occasionally exploded into full blown diatribes) that she could not stand. I would not even finish a sentence and she would assume I was being rude. She has a major problem with respecting anybody who drinks alcohol, has sex outside of marriage, smokes, etc. One time she found a beer bottle cap in the lawn and basically accused me of being a drunk (it wasn't even mine). She never knew I started having sex, and I know exactly what she'd say -- that my actions reveal what's in my heart, and that sex outside of marriage is against god, which means I should make sure I'm really a Christian. Bullshit. I can't believe how long I've had to deal with her holy acts.

I have never seen my mother wear anything but skirts and dresses. Even when she is relaxing at home, she wears one of her older dresses. No problem, really, except that it kind of came to stand for her having to always appear formal and polite, which rubs me the wrong way.

Our desired topics of conversation have virtually no intersecting points. She talks about when she last got together with a person, when somebody got sick or died, how much things used to cost, and for some reason, when she purchased furniture and appliances. When she talks to her friends, it always starts with this half hour long recollection of when they last saw each other, and how much things have either changed or stayed the same since then. She also has this habit of finishing people's sentences incorrectly, which sometimes made me embarrassed for her, but usually just made me leave the room in disgust. She likes talking about God and church, her family history, and the current family events. Once I moved out of the house, whenever we'd talk, she would usually start by informing me that one of my bills had arrived at the house, followed by "looks like it's from the bank" (which set a negative tone and usually made me want to hang up), but would quickly move into a report of what each of the people I know/knew is doing. I frankly don't care very much about hearing from my mom about how my sister is doing. If I wonder how my sister is doing, I will ask my sister. And I certainly do not care about what some old church acquaintance is doing. When she talks about deeper things, it is usually about God / spiritual growth, and seems to be based on scripture rather than her own thoughts. Sometimes she seems rather gossipy to me because of the way she talks about people's superficial lives all the time. She doesn't say mean things about people very often, but seems to think that it is her place to inform. She doesn't have much of a grasp (or concern, it seems, unless she can turn it into a prodigal son kind of experience in her mind) for people's hidden motives, or simply why they are the way they are. She really assumes a great deal by appearances, and has little tolerance for anyone disrespectful. Our definitions of disrespect are contrary, and this is something that often would come out during arguments. She thinks a pleasant tone and no backtalk equals respect. I think respect is about truth-telling, in the broader sense of the term. Countless times, i would approach her as carefully as possible with what I believed very strongly to be the truth of a situation that she was misinterpreting (or failing to recognize altogether). She would get very defensive and almost victim-like because she felt she was being challenged. In other words, my knowledge of what may have really been going on with a person or situation was unwelcome to her, no matter how I presented it. There were other times my "behavior" directly challenged her values, such as when I was hospitalized for depression, when I had the eating disorders, when I shaved my head. it was no surprise that she made all my problems superficial AND about her. She also has no respect for people who study science (as opposed to god), philosophy, psychology, or some unconventional art form, or for people who appear "out of line" or "troubled."

She also holds grudges for a very long time, although she would never admit to it. For example, she is still clearly offended by my absence from some stupid family gathering which may have occurred 10 years ago, and will use it against me as a sort of threat when I give any indication that I'm not going to do something she wishes (even something entirely unrelated to the past wrong).

She has a pretty long list of things she can use against me. I have no respect for people who use the past to manipulate a person into acting a certain way in the present/future.

I may have repeated myself here, yet don't want to re-read it. I couldn't remember what I had already said.

[Megan]

when mom's keep acting like moms and like you are 10 years old, there's bound to be conflict no matter what the types are of those involved.

Some ten year olds get along conflict free with their parents based on how the parents view them and how they view the parent and their authority. I think the whole type relationship between children and parents can start quite early.

My mother is an ESFp, she does not really act like a "mom" with me. There was never much telling me what to do, in fact, it was a bit of the reverse. When I told her I wanted to go and live with my grandparents she thought that was fine, when at 14 I decided I wanted to try living on my own and that I was going to find a place to live and she would pay the rent, she went along with that too. I do not know what sort of socionics relationship I am in with my mother but she tells everyone that she made me make my own decisions early on because she felt certain that I made better decisions than she does and that I was very unlikely to do anything stupid or irresponsible. She would have never let my ISFp sister do many of the things I was allowed to do and from early on they had a controlling parent/rebellious child thing going and they still have that going even now while my mother comes to me for advice when she is making her own decisions. In short my decisions and way of life made sense to her from early on so we did not have to argue or conflict about them much.

[Jarno]

First: a conflict relationships is best recognized by the way you approach the other person. You get this feeling that hell is breaking loose. You have to be carefull what to say, or the other will counter you. You can also recognize this response in the other person. They look somewhat aware, ready to fight.

The conflicts consist of very mean ways of attacking.

The extravert thinks the introvert is very Egoistic. The introvert thinks of the extravert as Super Evil.


Second: Best way to know the relationship with your parents is to type them well. Trying to see what kind of relationship you are in, is most difficult with your parents, because you've experienced much with them. You could easely get confused.