LII-ILE mirror relations (INTj and ENTp)

[Joy]

It seems ENTps and INTjs relate better to eachother than most types relate to either, at least from my observation. My relationship with my INTj seems VERY odd to most people, but I cannot imagine either of us doing well in a "normal" relationship or with a "normal" person.

On the other hand, because we both have a few of the same characteristics, there are things that simply do not get attended to in our home and whatnot. I also think we encourage eachother's T a little bit too much... you should hear some of the conversations we have! Most people would be quite offended and think both of us very cold.

I'm looking for comments from people who have been in this relationship or have known people who have.

[discojoe]

Watch Harold and Kumar. Classic ENTp/INTj mirror relation, and it's hilarious.

[Joy]

I believe I shall

[whoever]

I am a pretty wrecked entp. Lacking self-confidence, excessively shy and extremely evasive when it comes to emotions (you can say emotionally weak). I decided I am an entp because I have an overactive function. I don't quite know how to express my emotions and I can get really evasive when it comes to expressing my emotions. I need to get positive responses, but the intj seems really cold sometimes. He does show that he cares for me. After all my mixed signals and possiblly unintentional hurts, he still sees me as a friend. And our conversations aren't getting anywhere. I don't ask personal questions and he's a private person. But, I really like him... a lot! I really hope that he can be my confidant, my best friend. I am really drawn to him but I dare not tell him lest I be rejected. This is not even a potential romantic relationship, we are just looking into potential pure friendship. Like I said, I am pretty screwed up.

With the situation explained. I have the following questions that I hope someone can help me with.

1) Do I sound like just some entp with a real poorly developed feeling functions?

2) Am I safe to assume that an intj who cares for my well-being sees me as a friend?

3) And finally, any idea how I can pull myself up?

[Joy]

wow, complicated questions!

1) no clue... I have a tough time with friendships as well. I am the type of person who is very trustworthy but not very trusting most of the time. I always worry that the person I am building a friendship with has ulterior motives. I am very intuitive when they do, but I generally don't trust the absense of such ulterior motives because just every time I do I end up getting screwed.

2) INTjs are probably the least compassionate and respectful type. If you have any degree of compassion from him, you're probably important to him. If he respects you, you're already head and shoulders above most people in his world. Don't expect him to make an effort to get closer to you though. You're going to have to stretch yourself if you want to develop a deeper friendship with this guy. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

3) Wow, there is a lot to this question! First of all, in making a continuous and lifetime effort towards personal growth, you're doing MUCH better than relatively emotionally healthy people who are stagnant. It doesn't matter where you are now, all that matters is where you're headed. Feel free to PM, IM, or email me if you want to talk about this more. I have had experience with depression and have also had (or currently have) a lot trust issues that you seem to.

[Creepy-confused]

I'm an ENTp and I notice that I tend to take for granted that the ones that are close to me understand me. Like I think I don't need to reaffirm that I am close to them and I habitually put the needs of less important people on top of those that mean a lot to me. By that, I mean cancelling my appointments with the ones I care for the ones I care less or for events that I think are of more fun! Is that an ENTp thing?

Are INTjs sort of jealous by nature? Do they usually understand that about ENTps? Guess what I should ask is, do INTjs feel insecure easily even in an ordinary friendship? I have a close INTj friend and I've not hung out with her lately as much coz my out-of-town friends are here. I know I failed to fulfill some promises, but come on, she sould understand why. I would if I were in her position. She gave me the silent treatment, does it mean she's kinda mad?

[Creepy-confused]

It's me again. I would like to add that my INTj friend is kind of weird. She won't sort of say that she wants my friendship, but she acts weird whenever I seem to have to failed to give her enough attention. And she would be asking a lot of questions, demanding to know everything about you but never quite tell you much about herself. I have ceased asking her personal questions. I never quite know what she thinks of me.... Is she just manupulative or something?

I cherish this friendship quite a lot because she's one of the few that I feel understand me and I just seem to trust her naturally (or blindly?).

[XcaliburGirl]

Sounds to me like you are doing the same thing to each other:

Like I think I don't need to reaffirm that I am close to them

She won't sort of say that she wants my friendship

[snowyc]

I personally remain friends with an ENTp i know to 'keep the peace' since he is clearly playing the pygmalion project on me i.e. wishing me to act more like his ISFp dual which kinda makes sense because we're all part of the alpha quadra - similar types.

[XcaliburGirl]

Tense music plays...

A pattern emerges from the fog...

ENTp gets distracted...

INTj clams up...

Both parties feel neglected and become suspicious of the other's motives...

Left in darkness, Relationship takes a long walk off a short pier...

Curtain closes...

The End.



That's the script, and I'm not just referring to your situation personally, "confused". It seems to be the way it goes every time. I wonder if it also applies to other types in a mirror relationship. The question is, how to fix it?

Maybe November should be Mirror-Neglect Awareness Month.

[Creepy-confused]

I honestly just hope that my INTj friend doesn't give up on friendships easily like I. She's a friend that I'd like to keep for life.

[XcaliburGirl]

Crazy idea: talk to her about it.

[Kim]

Crazy idea: talk to her about it.

shocking!

:wink:

[Ms. Kensington]

well, i don't give up on people who understand me, and i am INTj (most probably).

Anyhow, I noticed that with extraverted people, if i am taking my introverted time formulating responses because i have to think about things before I speak, they take that as something being wrong, ignoring them or maybe giving "silent treatment". I have noticed MBTI INTJs being silent and that meant they were mad. Maybe it depends on the person. Just know that just because you don't get an immediate response, doesn't mean the person is mad at you or it has to do with you at all.

But in this case i think it does. Why do you say "come on" she should know why you neglected her in some way? maybe not everyone would think tending to out of town friends means you won't tell your friend you have to break plans or something. I would understand, but if it was done repeatedly i might feel like i didn't matter as much to you, and if you were like, "come on, it was totally fine that I didn't tell you" I might think you didn't think as highly of me. Anyway, if she was upset about it, do you understand why? Or do you think that it's obvious you value her because.... you.. show it somehow? Both being T, it might not be so obvious what your feelings are for each other. How do you know she cares for you? or do you know?

and i dont think INTjs are jealous or manipulative by nature. I think *deep breath* that some types ARE more prone to being manipulative and some type descriptions list some SF types as needing to manipulate to have meaning to their interactions-- and that's an activity that could EASILY be used for less than honorable intentions.. but its not something like, such and such type is evil. You know. I've really tried to see it as a neutral ability, and that's what studying this type business is all about kind of.

I think INTj type is prone to not knowing how people feel about them . If the INTj is insecure as is understandable they might act in a jealous manner. But being jealous is not inherent in the type itself. Asking a lot of questions could be a defense mechanism-- knowing more could explain the feelings more, etc. But it could also just be asking questions you know? Have you been friends a long time?

I think that ENTps are prone to being absent minded and some ENTps might be holding back appreciating their relationships because they are looking for new, better opportunities. If you care about this friendship (and you seem to), and you know that you have a tendency to neglect ones you care about (and you seem to), then just try and make a conscious effort to remedy any neglect. And individuals vary, so you can ask your friend how you can show her you care

PS i understand why you'd ask this forum first for advice rather than asking her. Type can only give you so much, though *gives self same advice*

[Creepy-]

Tense music plays...

A pattern emerges from the fog...

ENTp gets distracted...

INTj clams up...

Both parties feel neglected and become suspicious of the other's motives...

Left in darkness, Relationship takes a long walk off a short pier...

Curtain closes...

The End.



That's the script, and I'm not just referring to your situation personally, "confused". It seems to be the way it goes every time. I wonder if it also applies to other types in a mirror relationship. The question is, how to fix it?

Maybe November should be Mirror-Neglect Awareness Month.

Where do you get that from? I haven't seen that interaction between entp's and intj's.

[XcaliburGirl]

Tense music plays...

A pattern emerges from the fog...

ENTp gets distracted...

INTj clams up...

Both parties feel neglected and become suspicious of the other's motives...

Left in darkness, Relationship takes a long walk off a short pier...

Curtain closes...

The End.



That's the script, and I'm not just referring to your situation personally, "confused". It seems to be the way it goes every time. I wonder if it also applies to other types in a mirror relationship. The question is, how to fix it?

Maybe November should be Mirror-Neglect Awareness Month.

Where do you get that from? I haven't seen that interaction between entp's and intj's.

Well, the topic starter ("confused") for one... Waddlesworth's saga... and a little personal experience. Just enough to start seeing a pattern. Maybe that's not how it happens "every time", I take that back. But in my limited knowledge of this relationship, it seems to be the general trend.

[Creepy-ENTp Male]

I have noticed MBTI INTJs being silent and that meant they were mad. Maybe it depends on the person. Just know that just because you don't get an immediate response, doesn't mean the person is mad at you or it has to do with you at all.

Being an ENTP in a relationship with an INTJ for a bit, I can tell you that one of the toughest things for me to do is shut up and wait for a response from my INTJ friend. In the course of working through an issue or situation, I'm thinking out loud, and she's thinking quietly in their head. I haven't always had enough sense to just give her space to state an answer. The more emotional or feeling related something is, the longer it takes for her to articulate an answer, but it's usually an answer you can take to the bank, as far as honesty goes. Sometimes I'll ask a question and won't get an answer for over a week. When I get the answer, it's usually the one I was hoping for and it's not a decision she'll "waffle" on. Ask her what you need to know and wait for an answer. It's simple, but it's damn hard to do if you're a slightly ADD , ENTP.

[metaiwan]

What's going on is she's drawing conclusions of something she wants to say and will hold for a pause before interrupting you on it. Then, you'll move on to the next topic and she'll still be waiting to talk about the previous topic. She'll start to zone out, or she'll forget her conclusion and something will come to her about what you're saying currently. Then the cycle repeats itself, until it gets to the extreme, she's not listening to you at all, waiting for you to pause or doesn't say anything because the conversation has already moved on. ENTp-INTj talking is very much like that unless they'res an objective to be done.

[metaiwan]

Relations of understanding, secondary and primary. The ENTp comes up with lots of ideas, the INTj speaks up when he's passed the logic one and tells him to investigate that one instead of moving on to another idea. The INTj works on an idea, and may get deadset into a roadblock. The ENTp brainstorms and comes up with an idea to get around the roadblock. They do this without stepping on each other's egos.