Yeah. Te. Like I said.
Yeah. Te. Like I said.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Te + Ni. Te provides information, Ni sees the progression of events to determine if something is or is not a good idea.Originally Posted by Gilly
Diana, I think you've been saying that without input to help you figure out whether something is a good idea or bad idea based on how things will turn out, you have a hard time making decisions. The only parts of what you've posted in this thread that sound like they're at all related to Ne were brief implications of how you are stuck endlessly weighing the possible pros and cons that may result from a particular course of action.
Gilligan, I am not going to argue Diana's type with you.
Whether or not something is safe sorta falls into the realms of a number of different possible functions, but based on the context it seems like you want Te + Ni input. Like I said, Te + Ni. Te provides information, Ni sees the progression of events to determine if something is or is not a good idea.
I never intended on arguing Diana's type with you.
I don't see the need for Ni. I think Te provides everything Diana is looking for.
Let's just agree to disagree.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
What makes it seem different from Delta NF is . . .
If you are Delta NF, you have strong Ne, and you are therefore already weighed down in all the negative possibilities. A Delta NF wouldn't likely complain about people telling them about negative possibilities. This sounds just like my brother - he wants help making a decision but he doesn't want to know what all can go wrong. The not wanting to know what might go wrong sounds like a clear ISFj to me.Erg. It's like - it used to be fun when I was younger, wanting to do something and just going and doing it, and making sure I didn't talk to specific people about what I was going to do so they could talk me out of it. I didn't want to know what might go wrong. I still don't want to know what might go wrong, and am slightly annoyed that I can't take that trip now. I mean I still could, but not in good conscience, know what I mean? BUT at the same time I NEED to know whether something is a good idea, whether it's safe or not, whether it's a good decision, because it's not just me I have to worry about. So it's I have to choose things that are good choices, wise decisions, but I don't want to be weighed down in all the negative possibilities of what could happen if those things aren't so likely -- basically it's along the lines of:
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Actually, I can see a Delta NF being frustrated by someone laying on even more negative possibilities when the Deltan NF is actually looking for a solution. It's nothing more than compounding the problems...weighing them down even further, instead of offering anything to help limit it.
(This isn't to say I'm arguing Diana's type or anything like that.)
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
I guess that's possible, but I wouldn't be bothered in the slightest by people suggesting possible bad scenarios that hadn't occurred to me, personally. I'd probably welcome it. My motto is to know everything that might possibly happen so I can be emotionally prepared no matter what.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Being emotionally prepared for various possible occurances is one thing.
I'm talking about times metaphorically like when you're trying to move your stalled car off a busy road, but instead of helping you push it out of the way, this person stands there listing all sorts of negative things that could happen if you leave it on the side of the road.
(sigh, i had something much better written, but when I submitted it disappeared and I couldn't get it back.)
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
Dual-seeking and PoLR sub-programs
Here’s what I’m thinking… I’ll put it in a terribly vague way of course (I have examples in mind from my life, but I don’t feel like sharing them). When the dual-seeking function is “on” and in an “activated” state, one becomes receptive. They slow down and wait.
It’s sort of like… Imagine you are a robot. You run a program and various subprograms. These programs constantly take in new information of their kind, and you work off of this information. This is your natural state and you simply live in it constantly – it is ruled by the primary program which has a monopoly on all the other programs.
The dual-seeking function is also a subprogram, but it is of a certain type… When information of its kind comes at you, you stop… your primary program and primary subprograms are momentarily suspended. And you wait for the next move of the source of the information that is feeding the dual-seeking function. It’s like when a robot goes into its “ready to receive new programming” state.
The difference is the primary program (first function) and key secondary systems are busy outputting things as well as receiving them (though it may be more that the first function is busy receiving and has the creative function do most of the outputting). The dual-seeking function, however, does a lot more intake than output (and it runs at a low level of energy, in the background). It is connected to the first function in an intimate way. The first function recognizes the information sought by the dual-seeking function as supremely valuable information… but the first function does not know how to gather this information or produce it. So when an outside “source” emitting this form of information is present, the first function cedes concentration/energy to the dual-seeking function, and the “robot” that you are goes into its receiving, new-programming-acquisition mode. The first function waits, suspends itself, and watches the flow of the new information in reverence, wanting more.
Then with the PoLR… when information of this sort comes at you, you become resistant. This is information you don’t want to receive. The first function thinks this information is supremely unimportant and irrelevant. The PoLR subprogram also runs in the background at a low level of energy. But the first function often disregards its information – there are far more important things to attend to.
Last edited by inumbra; 06-27-2008 at 05:07 PM. Reason: edited
Yeah , i like that too
ENTP:wink:
ALPHA
Great analogy, Loki. (v: Just wondering though, when you say that the first function is suspended while it's receiving info from the dual-seeking function .... I can see the secondary function being suspended, but why the first? I know you said you didn't want to give a personal example, but could you give an extremely rough sketch of one? (o:
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
Duality and loving your dual's PoLR
A lot of people view their own PoLR as a sore spot or area of personal weakness or a place where flaws come from, right? At least in certain contexts. But what about people’s views on other people’s PoLR? Specifically, I’m thinking of how a person interprets their dual’s PoLR....
Personally I think XLIs are often awesome in ways that seem to relate directly to Fe-PoLR. ILIs I know in particular have this air of up-front honesty or even bluntness that is just great to me, and it’s often accompanied by a dry, clever sense of humor that I think is characteristic of Fe-PoLR people. It’s one thing I love about them: w ILIs all the Fe stuff [which can be distracting and unnecessary imo] is out of the way. I’m not even sure I’m describing it well at all.
An everyday example w humor is when I’m talking w a ILI girl I know, and we’ll be joking [usually making fun of something] and bantering back and forth, but with completely straight faces [sometimes it's like a competition for who can remain expressionless the longest, at least until I finally crack and start laughing out loud, heh]. It’s just so funny to me how she can go on and on saying the wittiest/funniest things, but without ever cracking a smile - remarkable. And hilarious.
Do others notice that some of the things you like most about your dual relate in some way to their PoLR?
Last edited by female; 07-17-2009 at 12:09 AM.
I think 8th function is not as value as 7th function especially if it's very close relationship, not an acquaintance or group situation. 7th function becomes somewhat very valuable since the person also uses it privately very well....
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
My dual's PoLR is Se, so I guess they like it that I don't smack em around. Which is nice; I don't like exerting myself on a daily basis.
You're LSE now?
... and abusive?
I guess I meant Ti.
... and abusive?
See?? I just don't give a damn
And they don't either.
I guess I meant Ti.
See?? I just don't give a damn
And they don't either.
Yeah, I can relate to this experience in some ways, but the general idea is there. I think SEEs are similar in that though, that they customarily say it how it is, without reverting to a Ti classification of things in any sort of way. I never have to wonder what they're talking about, or learn some special code. It's usually all so clear, and this gives me the idea that I can actually talk to them without feeling uncomfortable about communication. This is a very interesting question you've asked and it has opened a door for me about understanding duality.
the funny thing is reading the other post, I was like "oh, my PoLR is Se? I thought I wasn't that bad at Se...but OK, I guess it is..."I guess I meant Ti.
See?? I just don't give a damn
And they don't either.
And then I was like "oooh...yeah...Ti..."
I actually don't know ISTp's PolR, is it Fe? If so that might be kinda cute.
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
That's the common understanding.
I usually have to hear what people have to say about me and only can I try to relate that to PoLR Fe. I can't do it directly. My friend said something along the lines as "when person A or I myself express ourselves toward you in this emotional fashion, contextual, you have this look to you that thinks we want something from you." Perhaps I associate Fe with avarice?
Yes, it's Fe. And it most certainly isn't! It's a pain in the ass donchaknow?
People expect you to have a huge grin for their surprises.
Or they expect you to look like a moron just to pose for a picture.
Or want you to act like a stiff during social settings (sometimes).
Someone still hasn't explained to me in certain terms just what the fuck "Fe" is, but if I understand what my "PoLR" is supposed to be, then those apply. Oh, and when someone invites me to a party or something and I just go "Sure", I HATE the "You don't sound too excited" reply. Makes me wanna rip off their throats!
.... I'm done.
Last edited by xyz; 07-17-2009 at 02:51 AM. Reason: Quotes.
yeah, no I understand. I don't really like Fe either (despite it saying I'm suppose to be somewhat strong in it as my 8th function) I actually always feel kinda fake when using it. It's true that "concrete art" I make is Fe though-- and actuallly whenever I make paintings they are super Fe-ish and Betas like them (even ISTjs!). But when I'm trying to deal w/ situations like you mentioned, I can pull it off but it just doesn't feel as authentic to me as using Fi. I feel if I say something flatly, it probably has more meaning than if I'm jumping around or using exclamation points. My Fi ENFp friend feels the same way and commented on feeling uncomfortable when people say "omg I love you so much lady! You are so fabulous!" I agreed.
Anyway, I guess I see it in terms of...well...ISTps or anyone shouldn't need to pretend to feel/express something or jump around in excitement if they don't want to. So while I could see Fe valuers being offended by that, I kinda just think that's their problem.
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
I'm glad to have maybe made you think about it in a new way - and I did it all without using Ti. Thank you, thank you
That's interesting what you said about understanding SEEs - I was curious about how XLIs see XEEs' Ti-PoLR. I'm a fan of the idea that it could be seen as a positive thing.
I wonder to what extent it's because we enjoy the lack of our dual using their PoLR, which we don't naturally enjoy all that much, versus us enjoying them using their creative function, which we do appreciate....
How do you respond to that, I'm curious?
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
OMFG did you just call us cute?
*narrows eyes*
*backs into shadows*
SLI
I really don't mind unenthusiastic replies and non-smiles for the camera. I actually appreciate it and find it more authentic in many instances. I have an ILI friend who almost never smiles and almost everything he says is monotone (well, he's gotten a bit better over the years... he was worse in college.Yes, it's Fe. And it most certainly isn't! It's a pain in the ass donchaknow?
People expect you to have a huge grin for their surprises.
Or they expect you to look like a moron just to pose for a picture.
Or want you to act like a stiff during social settings (sometimes).
Someone still hasn't explained to me in certain terms just what the fuck "Fe" is, but if I understand what my "PoLR" is supposed to be, then those apply. Oh, and when someone invites me to a party or something and I just go "Sure", I HATE the "You don't sound too excited" reply. Makes me wanna rip off their throats!
.... I'm done.). I find it very cute.
And as for Fi PoLR, I think it just makes me laugh. but I'm finding almost everything about my dual makes me laugh. (except Se, which I worship)
Last edited by redbaron; 07-17-2009 at 06:02 PM. Reason: adding
IEI-Fe 4w3
It depends. Sometimes, I jump up and down and try to do over the top emotions. Sometimes I tell em off.
Sometimes, I just tell em to shove it.
Edit: I used to be very monotone but I got tired of the "are you ok? are you bored?" questions, so I forced some emotion in there.
oh wow, I think that was a good description!
IEI-Fe 4w3
With a quickie?
Last edited by Park; 07-19-2009 at 03:29 AM.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
An SLI's interpretation of "resolved"?
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
In 5 minutes, yes.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
I was actually just joking with an ILI today about how neither of us know quite how to pose when someone tries to get us to turn for a photograph. We were trying to figure out how to best ruin someone's picture without making ourselves look too stupid.
The saddest ESFj
...
From my point of view, it's that SeFi's don't come with the many negative qualities that come with Ti-ego's, or Ti-valuers in general, who use lot of Ti. Imo Ti makes a good slave, but a real bad master in ones thinking, it's something one shouldn't base their decisions on. Also it's also part why Ti-PoLR's are funny, but they probably don't want to be funny that way.
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
Your taken aren't you? You have to be.
Easy Day
yes I am married to a non-Se-valuing ESE.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Well... Listen, you ever need some Se you just give me your exact geographical coordinates and I will be in and around your pants faster than Apollo Ohno combined with Justin Gatlin combined with a G-5 Air craft.yes I am married to a non-Se-valuing ESE.
Just sayin...
Easy Day
So that would be a relationship of supervision with you being the supervisor. How does that play out in your relationship?yes I am married to a non-Se-valuing ESE.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
LOL
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
sure you wanna open that can of worms?
IEI-Fe 4w3
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