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Thread: Do Deltas withdraw from emotionally expressive people?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Exactly and Fe tries to objectively define my internal feelings, which are entirely off limits. I could crack a smile, or raise and eyebrow and Fe is determining based off that how I feel and will give a blanket un-nuanced assumption of how I feel. If I crack a smile they will look at the context and say "Are you happy because....." and with Ni and Fe together they are like fully convinced they know my feelings, but completely leaving my own insight out of the equation because feelings are "objective", and they think they can know how I feel more than I do, which makes no sense to me. Smile means "happy", frown means "sad" and all the subjective nuanced reasons for the smile or frown are stripped. And my feelings are off limits because only I can know my nuance. Only the person can know what they are really feeling and the ins and outs of it, so someone trying to get in there and put names to things is like, back the hell off you don't know what's really going on.So yea, internal feelings are entirely off limits.
    Man, I have heard ESI's say the exact same thing.

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    I loathe being in the middle of an emotionally expressive group. Just end up standing there doing the awkward visibly uncomfortable smile and wave tactic hoping I don't draw attention on myself and get people asking me what's wrong due to me not joining in on the expression. I can get into it sometimes like with a sports game I'm invested in or rock/metal concert I enjoy but in most situations it's something I'd rather avoid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LemurianLo View Post
    I loathe being in the middle of an emotionally expressive group. Just end up standing there doing the awkward visibly uncomfortable smile and wave tactic hoping I don't draw attention on myself and get people asking me what's wrong due to me not joining in on the expression. I can get into it sometimes like with a sports game I'm invested in or rock/metal concert I enjoy but in most situations it's something I'd rather avoid.
    I have the same issue at times lol. I just can't keep up with groups that well. I usually end up just watching from the sidelines.

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    Tbh, I think Fe people get tired of me and so stop talking. I can be emotionally charged but usually it's because of my investment defending my own truths, not my interest in making things fun. But MOST of the time I'm mellow and easygoing and with little emotionality, and so Fe kinda is like, uh do you have anything interesting to say?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    I don’t withdraw from them, no. I just don’t respond “in kind” usually but that’s not a slight to them. I’m just not “feeling” it. They usually remark how quiet I am, and ask me if I’ve always been this quiet, lol.
    I can't even post my answer after this because it would be redundant. Ditto, ditto, and ditto.

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    I do. I really dislike that kind of shit.

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    I'm emotionally expressive but I tend to self-withdraw(pun intended)

    I like Fe because it adds spice to life, I think some deltas could learn to be less 'grumpy and serious' But I don't need it and I see the emotional expression of Fe quadras as overdone; constant Fe for Fe's sake is just too much of a good thing and gets draining.
    Only there occasionally

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    I actually replied to this thread 13 years ago i see lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Exactly and Fe tries to objectively define my internal feelings, which are entirely off limits. I could crack a smile, or raise and eyebrow and Fe is determining based off that how I feel and will give a blanket un-nuanced assumption of how I feel. If I crack a smile they will look at the context and say "Are you happy because....." and with Ni and Fe together they are like fully convinced they know my feelings, but completely leaving my own insight out of the equation because feelings are "objective", and they think they can know how I feel more than I do, which makes no sense to me. Smile means "happy", frown means "sad" and all the subjective nuanced reasons for the smile or frown are stripped. And my feelings are off limits because only I can know my nuance. Only the person can know what they are really feeling and the ins and outs of it, so someone trying to get in there and put names to things is like, back the hell off you don't know what's really going on. So yea, internal feelings are entirely off limits.
    I agree, I find that Fe types seem to expect something from me that can make me feel uncomfortable. Although that could be partially because I'm aware what they are looking for due to Socionics. Just because I look a bit stressed or flat, life's alright lol. My emotional state has 1000 different shades ranging from "I'm the shit" to "ok it's all over for me. Time to buy like 50 packets of lollies and die of hyperglycemia". 95% of the time just because im not that emotionally expressive i'm fine and it just needs some time to work itself out. Brute forcing it by laughing about some girl on the bachelor or whatever the shit your talking about probably wont work.

    My ESE boss thinks i'm introverted but mostly its just because I don't feel that comfortable around her. The people who know me well see a far richer personality than many from the outside. I'm most comfortable in a group of no more than 3. I can be boisterous, joking, loud etc. The larger the group and the more loud the personalities the more likely I am to be quiet. I'm actually fairly slow to react to jokes when a large group is joking around, I think its because i'm overwhelmed by amount of input i'm receiving. A couple of days ago I told a SEI woman at work who is a bee keeper to bee-lieve in herself. Then the next day I said, ok its time to Buzz off. She looked at me for a moment then started laughing really hard and I was like woahh I'm outta here lol. When I saw my ILE friend who I genuinely like after not seeing him for 4 years I'm like 'hey man' with a small smile. I could tell he is like wtf dude your not that excited to see me? I should have thrown my fedora, started sprinting towards him for the chest bump, Covid hug etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger View Post
    I actually replied to this thread 13 years ago i see lol



    I agree, I find that Fe types seem to expect something from me that can make me feel uncomfortable. Although that could be partially because I'm aware what they are looking for due to Socionics. Just because I look a bit stressed or flat, life's alright lol. My emotional state has 1000 different shades ranging from "I'm the shit" to "ok it's all over for me. Time to buy like 50 packets of lollies and die of hyperglycemia". 95% of the time just because im not that emotionally expressive i'm fine and it just needs some time to work itself out. Brute forcing it by laughing about some girl on the bachelor or whatever the shit your talking about probably wont work.

    My ESE boss thinks i'm introverted but mostly its just because I don't feel that comfortable around her. The people who know me well see a far richer personality than many from the outside. I'm most comfortable in a group of no more than 3. I can be boisterous, joking, loud etc. The larger the group and the more loud the personalities the more likely I am to be quiet. I'm actually fairly slow to react to jokes when a large group is joking around, I think its because i'm overwhelmed by amount of input i'm receiving. A couple of days ago I told a SEI woman at work who is a bee keeper to bee-lieve in herself. Then the next day I said, ok its time to Buzz off. She looked at me for a moment then started laughing really hard and I was like woahh I'm outta here lol. When I saw my ILE friend who I genuinely like after not seeing him for 4 years I'm like 'hey man' with a small smile. I could tell he is like wtf dude your not that excited to see me? I should have thrown my fedora, started sprinting towards him for the chest bump, Covid hug etc.
    That reminds me a LOT of my IEE sister. As she's settled more into herself (she went through a pretty rough period where, to find health, she was basically forced to spend time introspecting), she started calling herself an introvert. However, when in smaller groups of very familiar people she is far more expressive and instigative. She'll do those clever jokes that "come out of nowhere" that seem more for her own entertainment than others' but if you hear it that means she feels comfortable enough with you to let you into that moment. When she's with people she feels safe with, she is pretty open with her emotions. Like if she's frustrated she'll cry or bang things around. But it's not to change you; it's just because it makes her personally feel better to express. In fact, people who can ride her storms without freaking out are the best people for her. If and when other people start reacting to her too strongly or seem to expect her to "perform" she flattens out and buttons up.

    As she's been coming out of her rough patch, she's been SUPER quiet when around new people in social situations. It's taken about 2 years, but my MiL (who I think might be ESI) noted to me that my sister seems to be finally feeling more comfortable around her and my FiL (who I think is SEI). But particularly my MiL, who is very good at not pressuring people to be emotive.

    For IEE (and EII, mostly), it seems they are socially aware enough to recognize when there's an expectation to emote, and they will oblige up to a point, but after that point they nope out - whether by shutting down or just going off in their own direction. That tolerance point seems to vary by person.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    That reminds me a LOT of my IEE sister. As she's settled more into herself (she went through a pretty rough period where, to find health, she was basically forced to spend time introspecting)
    Hey Minde! For sure, its not good to get lost in introspection for long, take it from me. I think if you asked most people they would say I'm an introvert. I'm happy to spend my weekends alone. I do work in mental health and have to help people all day though.

    Yeah, being socially aware and having a desire to please people can be quite a curse. When I was at my worst I was hyper aware of peoples emotional expressions. Every micro expression was processed through my Fi about how I was relating to the other person. Of course because I was anxious, I was picking up their response to my anxiety and it was not a good feedback loop. Fi was processed moment to moment and I found it overwhelming at times to see someone pulling closer, drifting away in the space of a few moments.

    I've never had blow ups / storms really but I feel for your sister. I basically feel like Bilbo Baggins these days, been through far too much and its time to retire lol. I've seen IEE's in all shapes and sizes. Highly bubbly extraverted ones without any self consciousness and very little self reflectiveness. Whip smart professional types who keep everyone at arms length. Extremely calm slow talking ones, energetic quirky ones, very shy quiet ones. I'm a weird mix of calmness, charisma and high neuroticism lol.

    In general I'm much more happy with small emotions. I like the intimacy of an exchange that passes between one or two people. I also think I like the speed and rhythm of it as well, boisterousness for me is just too stimulating if it lasts a long time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post

    For IEE (and EII, mostly), it seems they are socially aware enough to recognize when there's an expectation to emote, and they will oblige up to a point, but after that point they nope out - whether by shutting down or just going off in their own direction. That tolerance point seems to vary by person.
    Yup. I'm going through this right now. 2 many new people around me and I can't get away from having to perform the icebreaker and handshake and first impression and rapport building and blah blah blah blah, things never said out loud but you know are there lingering.

    It's real bad when you live in a house with new people, you leave work but you don't leave the social expectations when you come home because there are new faces with expectations in the one place you go to to get away from it all. It's like when you go to the gym you are ready to work out, but imagine coming home and also having to continue working out with no break or shower.

    I'm starting to feel like me locking myself in my room is coming off rude or overly shy to the new people I live with, when really I'm just trying to catch a breather from "social weightlifting" I don't know how to put it but I hope you know what I mean. Everytime I leave my room I feel some kinda of "is he gonna stop being so quiet?" weight on my shoulders again. Now leaving my room has become a choice of "do I want to lift weights or no?" and most of the time the answer is no lol so I don't leave unless I know people aren't around lol. BUT going out I'm fine because I expect to do some social weightlifting once I leave the house, and I might even look for and enjoy it, but when I get home I just want a break and to let all the ugly hangout without being judged.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 11-05-2020 at 10:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Yup. I'm going through this right now. 2 many new people around me and I can't get away from having to perform the icebreaker and handshake and first impression and rapport building and blah blah blah blah, things never said out loud but you know are there lingering.

    It's real bad when you live in a house with new people, you leave work but you don't leave the social expectations when you come home because there are new faces with expectations in the one place you go to to get away from it all. It's like when you go to the gym you are ready to work out, but imagine coming home and also having to continue working out with no break or shower.

    I'm starting to feel like me locking myself in my room is coming off rude or overly shy to the new people I live with, when really I'm just trying to catch a breather from "social weightlifting" I don't know how to put it but I hope you know what I mean. Everytime I leave my room I feel some kinda of "is he gonna stop being so quiet?" weight on my shoulders again. Now leaving my room has become a choice of "do I want to lift weights or no?" and most of the time the answer is no lol so I don't leave unless I know people aren't around lol. BUT going out I'm fine because I expect to do some social weightlifting once I leave the house, and I might even look for and enjoy it, but when I get home I just want a break and to let all the ugly out without being judged.

    It sounds like you don't have a place you can defend or call your own, except your room.

    I've been in situations like that before, but not recently. Usually it was when I was visiting my ex-wife's parent's house and her extended family of fifteen or twenty nice but still-screwed-up Delta and Beta relatives. I was the only Gamma in sight (although I didn't think in those terms then, but instead merely felt as if there was a conversation that everyone but me was in on. Plus, there was a lot NOT being said and not allowed to be discussed, thank you very much).

    I've also felt alienated when staying with my mother's relatives in Pittsburgh. The ones where the grandmother swears like a sailor and the daughter got pregnant at 13 and the mother is working on her fifth drunken and absent BF that year and there are no males anywhere (except me) and the dog shits on the rug three times a day and the place is a continuous screaming madhouse that smells like dog shit and you're telling me that I'm related to these people?

    I've seen descriptions of ESI's which said that they make their home "their own". I wonder if this is something that Fi-doms need in order to feel comfortable?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    That reminds me a LOT of my IEE sister. As she's settled more into herself (she went through a pretty rough period where, to find health, she was basically forced to spend time introspecting), she started calling herself an introvert. However, when in smaller groups of very familiar people she is far more expressive and instigative. She'll do those clever jokes that "come out of nowhere" that seem more for her own entertainment than others' but if you hear it that means she feels comfortable enough with you to let you into that moment. When she's with people she feels safe with, she is pretty open with her emotions. Like if she's frustrated she'll cry or bang things around. But it's not to change you; it's just because it makes her personally feel better to express. In fact, people who can ride her storms without freaking out are the best people for her. If and when other people start reacting to her too strongly or seem to expect her to "perform" she flattens out and buttons up.

    As she's been coming out of her rough patch, she's been SUPER quiet when around new people in social situations. It's taken about 2 years, but my MiL (who I think might be ESI) noted to me that my sister seems to be finally feeling more comfortable around her and my FiL (who I think is SEI). But particularly my MiL, who is very good at not pressuring people to be emotive.

    For IEE (and EII, mostly), it seems they are socially aware enough to recognize when there's an expectation to emote, and they will oblige up to a point, but after that point they nope out - whether by shutting down or just going off in their own direction. That tolerance point seems to vary by person.
    Wow, I really relate to so much of this. One of my absolute favorite things is when I'm comfortable enough to share those jokes. It's typically hard for me to have fun with it when the environment isn't very Ne-valuing/-using, as I'm hyper-attuned to the emotional atmosphere, and if a joke doesn't land well, I'll get self-conscious and be quiet. But those moments or groups where I am able to do that and be more blasé are so, so much fun. That's the case for sharing insights and emotions as well--I've gotten much quieter when it comes to that, even with some friends, as I don't see the point of contributing little aspects of myself and emotional experience if they won't be understood/appreciated. I have two (pretty narcissistic) expressive Beta parents, so I got a lot of experience with that early on sadly--they view me as a very quiet, mellow person, even though there are so many facets (that are better representations of me) that they will never see, as they've wanted to see me as an extension of themselves instead. They are emotionally neglectful/parentifying/abusive though, and many ethical Beta friends of mine definitely appreciate me on the whole so much more, so I don't know how widespread that dynamic is.

    But anyways, people who are able to embrace and love someone for the totality of who they are are absolutely beautiful. Like your sister, the people who can ride the wave of cascading (often hidden) emotions and sudden subtle jokes are probably the best people for me as well, as they allow me to open up and share love, affection, and humor with them, without any fear of rejection or emotional abandonment (I try to be that person for others too). I definitely withdraw when people are too intense in their displays of emotion, esp. if they're self-centered about it; I try to keep up appearances, and be there for them emotionally, but will end up just saying "mmhm" and "yeah" no matter how hard I try. That never happens with people like you described though--I feel that they're much healthier for the psyche in the long run, even if I greatly appreciate many intensely expressive emoters as people :)
    Last edited by sunburst; 11-05-2020 at 05:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I do not avoid them but I deny them my essence.
    Essence?
    Clicks speed growth.


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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Essence?
    You are missing the cultural signposts. Here you go.



    The entire movie is quite entertaining.

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