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Thread: Subtypes/sub-classifications

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    Default Subtypes/sub-classifications.

    What is everyone's opinion on the subtypes theory? Can you see the diffrences amongst people in the same type? Do you think that there are two diffrent classifications within each type... maybe more? Does it have to do with your function "choice", or maybe people are just diffrent? Are there split subtypes, or does everyone fall to one side or the other?

    This is what Victor Gulenko wrote about subtypes:

    Don Quixote (ENTP)
    Finder is terminal (intuitive)
    (developing - from the Eng. inventor)

    It differs in terms of excellent scent to the new. He frequently becomes the author of many inventions and discoveries. Unsurpassed generator of ideas. In its proposals it is very daring. However, easily throws the bored matter and is thrown to new - more captivating. It is capable to appear itself, also, in the business. For it are characteristic the dynamics, a rapid speech, a large quantity of gestures. In it frequently the dense build, courageous appearance, whiskers, if the discussion deals with the man. Great significance is attached to exterior view.

    Finder is initial (logical)
    (extracting - from the Eng. extractor)

    Self-centered and pensive person. It draw the ideas, which do not have direct connection with the reality, for example philosophy, religion, bioenergetics and t, d. its favorite occupation - to compare between themselves different logical systems. Type of office scientist. Asthenic figure is characteristic for it. It is angular in the motions, is not turned attention to the exterior view, little it worries about the health.

    Dumases (ISFP)
    Mediator is initial (ethical)
    (being associated - from the Eng. communicator)

    Is intensified the ethics of emotions - emotional and sociable, easily it enters into any company, it appears ekstravertnym. It loves the convenient spacious clothing, to which not very prityazatelen, - it can walk, also, in the shabby form. Artistichen, frequently performs the role of zavodily. Itself in the amateur artistic activity finds, it can be musician, actor, advertising agent.

    Mediator is terminal (sensory)
    (selecting - from the Eng. selector)

    It possesses a good aesthetical taste, this can be manifested in the clothing, in the formulation of interior, and in the occupations by applied skill. Frequently this artist- landscapists, they love to depict still life. This is the judge of welfare, comfort for it is very important. It sibarit, it follows its exterior view. Hedonist, loves to provide pleasure both to himself and by others. It is outwardly more well-fed, than the initial subtype of mediator.



    Hugo (ESFJ)
    Enthusiast is terminal (ethical)
    (greeting - from the Eng. acclaimer)

    It is very expressive, it is to difficult maintain its emotional pressure. It possesses high fitness for work; however, the accretion of feelings prevents it from being design. It is strongly it is scattered it jumps from one matter to another. In the contact is straight-line, neposredstven, it is characterized by explosive choleric temperament. Outwardly - the desire to draw the attention of the representative of opposite floor by the bright clothing, in which can be present the element of demonstrativeness.

    Enthusiast is initial (sensory)
    (Obustraivayushchiy - from the Eng. entertainer)

    Aesthete, loves and to himself, and to those surrounding to provide pleasure, to give gifts. A good owner in the house - knows how to be arranged even with the minimum of conveniences. Man of business, can be lucky manager in the sphere of leisure and entertainments. Women of this type bind well, sew, know how to be charming, possess a good taste in color matching clothing. Behavior nedemonstrativno. It very badly transfers pain and unimportant health.



    Robesp'er (INTJ)
    Analyst is initial (intuitive)
    (planning - from the Eng. conceptor)

    Analyst - good scientist -konqeptualist, primary attention gives to the global issues, the generator of ideas. For it are more important promising achievements than the result of the current moment. It is held it is softly, correctly, careful in the contacts. Outwardly frequently astenichen, more than attention gives to the exterior view, the health.

    Analyst is terminal (logical)
    (systematizing - from the Eng. systemizer)

    Is concrete and regulated, organizer in the science, he does not entrust to the too removed ideas. Scholar, but only in its narrow region. In the behavior - it is dry, restrained, it can be authoritarian. It does not love discussions and frictions in the association, it is held on the distant psychological distance. Strict adherent of reasonable systems. It bears a strict clothing, it is attempted to be in grow prettier to physical form.



    Hamlet (ENFJ)
    Teacher is terminal (ethical)
    (inspirer - from the Eng. inspirator)

    Emotionally excited, sharp. The incandescence of feelings demonstrates, is decisive artistichen. It easily yields to exaltation, is characterized by aristocratic manners. Frequently these are a good speaker, political leader with the patriotic incline. Is internally dramatic spontanen, it loves itself to demonstrate. Outwardly it can shock those surrounding by extremes in the clothing - bomzh with the soiled sleeves. It can, on the contrary, dress by thrust, vividly or izyskanno-aristokraticheski.

    Teacher is initial (intuitive)
    (warning - against Eng. Warner)

    It is predisposed to the reflection, the internal fluctuations and the doubts. It thinks descriptively, it is inclined to the philosophy. It is not very critical to the exterior view, it is not exacting to the food. Reserved, ranimyy, is cracked, speaks out nenavyazchivo, it is required and punctual. It - a good educator teacher, can entice its listeners. It is calm outwardly, it is sequential in the account of material.



    Gor'kiy (ISTJ)
    Inspector is initial (sensory)
    (requiring - of the Eng. demander)

    It is irregular and impulsive, does not always follow itself that order, which it requires from others, in this case it is capable to condemn those, who disrupt this order. It is communicable and courteous on the distant distance, but on the close one it can prove to be intolerant. Yesli' it to catch, can answer by aggression. The aim is leadership, but he leads better the small associations. It outwardly appears with fortitude. Men frequently bear whiskers, in the clothing they prefer free style.

    Inspector is terminal (logical)
    (controlling - from the Eng. controller)

    Most rational logical type. It is very constructive, the aim is hierarchy, it can all surrounding "zaorganizovat'", itself works thoroughly, is led to the end everything, it misses not one detail. Malodinamichen, does not transfer confusion. Outwardly strict, sustained, somewhat single-plot. It is official in the working situation even with the close relatives, it occurs, that in it is manifested the barrack style of behavior. In the clothing also conservative. Its suit, as a rule, is strict, dark tones, it resembles form.



    Zhukov (ESTP)
    Marshal is terminal (sensory)
    (Napadayushchiy - from the Eng. forward)

    Sharp, demonstrative, attacking style of behavior. It is expressive, expansive to the aggressiveness. It oshchushchayet well itself in the emergency and emergencies, sharply it is included in conflicts, it can press in order to rapidly introduce order. If it occurs not in the matters, it can provoke conflict in order to then take initiative in its hands. Emotional and sociable, will go around by the attention not of one person of opposite floor. Women also display initiative in the acquaintances with the men, it is sinewy, mobile, frequently thin, has well developed taste, epicure. In the mode it approaches refinement and prestige.

    Marshal is initial (logical)
    (moving - from the Eng. promotor)

    Itself it prefers to remain in the shadow, not to demonstrate its aspirations, but it constantly holds hand on the pulse of proceeding all around. It outwardly appears balanced and phlegmatic. Before the fact, that as to act, checks all versions of possible consequences and only then it enters into the game. Is distrustful and careful, skeptic, conservative and realist. Because of the small sociability is produced the impression of introverta. If it outlined to itself victim, it acts slowly, by the method of the "compressive ring".



    Esenin (INFP)

    Lyric poetries initial (ethical)
    (charming - from the Eng. fascinator)

    It flatters and charms, obayatelen and is communicable. If he sees, which around it negative emotions, will try to make then so that the people would calm down. It will mobilize well in the dangerous situations, it loves to be in the center of attention, can prilyudno suffer and dramatize proceeding, it possesses a feeling of humor. It easily manipulates by intonation, voice, it can realize well itself in the field of journalism of --- he easily is succeeded in, telling "collocutor. Outwardly it can appear extravagant, frequently take the form bogemnyy, bright.

    Lyric poetries terminal (intuitive)
    (questioning - from the Eng. questor)

    The characteristically interrogative expression of face, the form is calm, is dreamy, contemplative. It is frequently passive in its line of behavior. Romantic on the spirit, lives in the world of illusions, he attempts to leave from the negative emotions. It is optimistic, as a rule, departs from the conflict situations, the supporter of compromises. It is restrained in the clothing, it is elegant and refined, it can fulfill the functions of abstractor with the "solid hand", be occupied by psychology and psychotherapy.



    Jack London (ENTJ)
    Owner is terminal (logical)
    (accelerating - from the Eng. accelerater)

    Most dynamic of all psycho-types, pioneer in his region of activity, searches for the supporters, with whom it is possible to together realize its or general ideas. It is very emotional and impulsive; therefore it can be inconsistent in the matters. It is trusting, because of its carelessness it can fall into the different histories, it seems spontaneous. It can well appear itself into the free of market activity, if it loses - it does not lose the presence of spirit and optimism, it again goes forward. Little attention it gives to the exterior view and the health, it is outwardly thin, very mobile, it sometimes bears beard and whiskers, it occurs, which conducts the disorderly means of life.

    Owner is initial (intuitive)
    (researcher - from the Eng. explorer)

    Calm and balanced, conducts the regulated means of life, feels well prospect. Quietly he selects, what idea it is better to neglect into the matter, will always find the most optimum and advantageous output, which will give the greatest return. This frequently - scientist- naturalist, experimenter, the matter gives to mind and hands simultaneously. It can be occupied by chemistry, and by painting, in this case he tries to bring everything to the end. Excellent igrotekhnik, experimenter. It will get along well with the children, it easily carries along by their interesting matter. Outwardly - that restrained, denser constitution than terminal, tries to dress well and follows its health.



    Dreiser (ISFJ)
    Keeper is initial (sensory)
    (supporting - from the Eng. maintainer)

    It is characterized by expansion in the narrow to circle, even it can aggressive, if they do not agree with it. These are - people of debt, active and hardy. In the conflict situations never first they go to the reconciliation. They can lead the associations of average value, are maintained discipline and order, they apply sanctions to those misbehaving. Frequently it is very rectilinear, they demonstrate their relation by the burning view. Business and have purposed, they gravitate towards to the administrative activity. They can give rebuff and to marshal, if that creates mafioznuyu structure, since the sprouts of this activity easily will recognize. Prefers the prestige style of clothing, sometimes the bright, but nonexciting tones.

    Keeper is terminal (ethical)
    (moralist - from the Eng. moralist)

    Thin, sensitive nature, well examines people reliable friend, it is capable to compromise. By softness and by the ease of contact it sometimes resembles mediator. This subtype is more frequent a good executor than the organizer: to him it is important, as it includes others, their opinion about it. Very well it associates with the small children, it is sensitive, thoughtful and attentive. It can also realize itself in the applied skill and the cultural activity. It is outwardly modest, little it follows the mode, prefers freer style.



    Napoleon (ESFP)
    Politician is terminal (sensory)
    (supplying - from the Eng. provider)

    Very active, energetic, enterprising. In it always, that is called, the "nose downwind". It is inclined to the adventures, to the games on the difference of prices, to risk, to game with the law. If is defeated, easily it departs, "after substituting" less flexible partners. This is one of the most unpredictable types, it easily works in the torgovo- intermediary structures, but not in the production. A sharp drop in the mood is characteristic for it: if to me it is good, then all must be good, if to me it is bad, then rest let suffer. It converges with the people on the short distances, it can arrange powerful emotional pressing. Good executive, the worker of service, for example waiter; actor - but only easy genres (comedy, operetta). It easily manipulates by the relations: it draws near, people are moved away. It is emotionally unstable; therefore it is frequently unsociable (it can provoke to something and in the case of failure - rapidly to leave into the shadow).

    Politician is initial (ethical)
    (founder - from the Eng. founder)

    Counts on people of influential and reliable, gradually it converges with them, if they are useful. It possesses specific snobbery, status of impressiveness. In it must be increasingly better - office, machine, dacha... A good worker, can govern people, relations, calculates well, pragmatician. He is not inclined to the adventures, a good politician, since he wonderfully feels people and draws necessary. Plays the role of thoughtful person, who works above the key problem. It dresses more with restraint than terminal subtype.



    Balzac (INTP)
    Criticisms initial (logical)
    (utilizing - from the Eng. utilisator)

    It is practical and it is operational, razvorotliv, it departs from the any useless activity. He tries from in all to extract benefit, it does not allow industrial wastes - everything must be reasonably used. Loves companies, friends, a good table. A feeling of humor is well developed, it knows how to get along with those surrounding. It is outwardly elegant, sociable; however, it is a little weakened.

    Criticisms terminal (intuitive)
    (contradicting - from the Eng. contradictor)

    Asketichen, is grumbling, it loves to emphasize deficiencies, searches for opponent. It criticizes sometimes with the dose of biliousness. It frequently has astenichnuyu figure, complexities in the contact are experienced. It can well provoke situation, including commercial. It possesses large erudition and memory, frequently it gets stuck in the details. This - scientist- theorists, who make the fundamental developments, which well feel also social-economic tendencies. Using analogies, frequently they can predict, to what side the going process will be turned. Outwardly it is slovenly and negligent, little it follows its health.



    Shtirlits (ESTJ)
    Administrator is terminal (logical)
    (generating - from the Eng. producer)

    It is attempted in its hands to combine entire cycle of production. A good worker, does not suffer incompetence, itself is well educated in its region. It is very operational, sometimes it works on the wear, it considers that only in this case it can require the same, also, from others. It can be sharp in the judgments, it usually formulates task very clearly. In the sphere of production it attains the responsibility of product, it loves to admire by that made, the advantage of its goods emphasizes. It can well realize itself under the conditions of stable market - in the field of transportation, in the army. In the clothing conservative, the main thing for it - cleanliness, order and functionality.

    Administrator is initial (sensory)
    (connecting - from the Eng. linker)

    Feels well the intermediate the fields of production - trade, management. It is more flattened than initial type, is very sociable, emotional, kontakten. Frequently gostepriimen, loves comfort and cosiness, leisure on nature. Easily it manages the responsibilities of technical director, manager.



    Dostoyevsky (INFJ)
    Humanist is initial (intuitive)
    (reconciling - from the Eng. conciliator)

    It feels well people, immediately sees, who to it approaches on the views, but who no. It loves to be in the narrow to the circle of friends and adherents, to discuss with them the novelties of literature, skill, humanities. It is frequently acted unsure of itself, it occurs and it is scattered. The aim is humanitarian activity, but it can work in the region of service. It realizes well itself both in medicine and in pedagogy. It knows how to reconcile those disputing, to smooth out sharp situations. It knows how to create pleasant situation, comfort in the house. It dresses with the taste, frequently it follows the mode.

    Humanist is terminal (ethical)
    (confessor - from the Eng. confessor)

    Confessor, is sincerely religious or adheres to any ethical system, nenavyazchiv and it is restrained, it is asketichen, it is strict to himself and by others for the disturbance of moral standards. Neinitsiativen. It is little interested in the fact that it is not connected with its persuasions. In the work it is sluggish and scrupulous. With it it is possible to have a talk, to pour soul, to obtain simple, but efficient council. Appearance - samouglublennost', asceticism; the internal stressed life is examined in the extrinsic ethos.



    Huxley (ENFP)
    Adviser is terminal (intuitive)
    (reporting - from the Eng. reporter)

    Very sociable, spirited, mobile person. The initiator of many matters; however, is characterized by large restlessness and changeability. Man very creative, but is scattered and not disciplined. It is capable to splash out its dissatisfaction, also, to the authorities, it is not considered the subordination. Outwardly - it more frequently has complete rounded forms. In the clothing it can be demonstrative, bright sometimes even loud.

    Adviser is initial (ethical)
    (adviser - from the Eng. adviser)

    It sees in the people the concealed gravities and attachments, prefers to work on the short psychological distance (in contrast to the terminal). It loves to give advice, it gravitates towards to the psychoanalysis, in this case counts on manifestation in the people of their positive qualities. It can postoyat' for others, defending their interests, for itself to postoyat' difficultly. Is outwardly more frequently thin izyashchen. In the clothing prefers the free cut, soft tones.



    Gaben (ISTP)
    Master is initial (logical)
    (developing - from the Eng. devdoper)

    Outwardly business, a little severe, cold and as if unapproachable. Realist and skeptic, is distrustful to the novelty, to those, who advances the ideas of declarative character. Will always leave from the useless matters, hundred per-cent pragmatician. It is very dynamic and technologically effective, it can extract the maximum of benefit even from, it would seem, entirely narrower than unnecessary. Its production always foremost, will maintain any competition on the market. In the clothing it is restrained, conservative, prefers sport, technological style.

    Master is terminal (sensory)
    (finisher - from the Eng. concluder)

    Aesthete, disposed to obtaining of pleasant sensations. Kontakten also of bendings is considerably more than initial subtype. Is more optimistic, but is less operational. Sibarit epicure. It gravitates towards to humanitarian disciplines - skill, linguistics, history. It dresses with the taste, emphasizing merits by clothing, selecting accordion it is color.


    I'll add in my opinion later.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    I actually have a theory about this, and I believe there is truth to it. Ironically some of the more critical people of it I have found to be some of the greater proofs for it.

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    I ditto pedro, I think ... but I believe the solution is a little less complex. Atleast, it does not sound that complex to me.

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    Ok, pedro, I see what you're saying. Yeah, I was thinking if subtypes would become too complex or something and attempt to describe everything little diffrence between people. I think saying that there are certain sub-classifications within the types is a little better than "subtypes" because the classification part seems to imply that they are more like the "fractions" and not really types themselves.

    But just look at the diffrent people in the same type. Take SLI, for example. Shaquille O'Neil is an SLI, and he reminds me very much of an SLI friend. Even the way he talks and things like that are very similar, but he doesn't remind me as much of myself. I would say Shaq is a classical Sensory-SLI. There are other SLIs, for example, who I feel a much stronger affinity to. If you look at people like Robert DiNero and Ty Cobb and Harrison Ford, then you will notice that they seem very diffrent on the outside, yet are still SLI. These guys would probably be considered more of Logical-SLIs.

    I can also think of an example of IEIs. Both singer James Taylor and baseball player Derek Jeter seem like IEIs to me, yet, diffrent. Is Taylor intuitive, and Jeter ethical? According to Gulenko's descriptions it would seem so.

    Why are there diffrent feels to people in the same type? Are they really the same on the inside, but just act diffrently on the outside?
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    This basically a suped up version of what I posted last night, but I believe the reason subtype classification exist is because socionics does not follow the braintypes left and right brain hemisphere theory [left brain = J right brain = P]

    For example, using this chart -



    I would be a right brained ENTp intuitive subtype
    Mysticsonic would be a right brained INTj intuitive subtype
    XcaliberGurl would be a right brained INTj intuitive subtype
    Theodosus would be a left brained INTj logical subtype
    Cone would be a right brain INTp intuitive subtype
    Rocky would be a left brained ISTp logical subtype
    My mother would be a left brain ISFp ethical subtype
    My stepfather would be a left brained ESFj ethical subtype

    Now, I suspect some of you might try to debate with me on your own brain dominance and I know there are a few I am missing, but this is the reason why I did the survey. I was seeing who was brain dominant where, and the correlations seemed to fit my theory nicely and it helped to improve my braintypes conversion chart and what I believe to entirely be the reason for subtyping.

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    Interesting theory, but I'd also like to note that the BrainTypes guy typed both Ty Cobb and Shaq as ISTPs, dispite me thinking that they have diffrent subtypes.

    Here are some ISTPs he typed. See what you think:

    Ty Cobb
    Shaq
    Bobby Knight
    Ted Williams
    Hank Aaron
    Micheal Jordan
    Wayne Gretzsky
    Dale Earnheardt
    Roger Clemems
    Mike Tyson
    Cal Ripken Jr.
    Allen Iverson
    Larry Bird

    And these are the ISTJs:

    Queen Elizabeth II
    Jack Nicklaus
    Tom Landy
    Mike Kryzewski
    Stan Smith
    Orel Hershiser
    and himself

    So, who do you think are the socionic SLIs and LSIs? I'm tending to think that it is ISTP=SLI and ISTJ=LSI.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro
    think of subtypes as the first step in socionics reductionism. imo the types are like the numbers 1 -> 16 and subtypes are the "fractions" of whole types. soon enough there will be a new theory that describes intermediates between different subtypes. this process will continue until individual types (persons) are viewed as points in a spectrum. then the interesting stuff will happen, the abstraction of the abstraction. basically what i mean is you will see the formulation of general universal principles like relative extraversion.
    Man, Pedro, you have *the* most exhausting, lengthy method of reductionism I have ever seen. I'm sorry, but I just can't wait as long as you suggest!
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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